#Steak Summoner (accidental typo, but it's funny so I left it in)
I like it. Gills should be allowed for underwater campaigns.
I would like to adopt LoneKnave's idea for the Magus/Cavalier MCA, as it looks really interesting, and no one seems to have paid attention to it. I think the mount should be summoned by a Ray attack and then automatically Charge to whatever enemy was supposed to be hit by the ray attack, dealing the damage of one of those rays (if there are multiple). The mount would then last for, say, 1 round/level or 1 minute after that, dealing damage as a Cavalier mount chosen by the Spell Rider (I like the name and am going to keep it). The mount would act as a Cavalier's mount for the purposes of HD, saves, etc, except it could fly. There could also be Arcanas to give the mount Pounce and perhaps modify it (since it is composed of arcane energy).
The mount could also be summoned by some sort of "Spell Rider's Challenge," where the Spell Rider issues a challenge as part of a ray attack, and he and his mount gain Challenge bonuses against that creature - the Mount lasting as long as the Challenged creature is conscious.
Actually, I would LOVE to play something like that!
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
The MCA should be getting 6+INT skill points. The Summoner base skill point/level rate is 6+INT, not 2+INT.
There could certainly be more unique things in this class. I don't know what those things could be, though.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
But the Stealth Summoner and the Stealth Eidolon must learn to Stealth Sneak and Stealth Kill together!...Stealth.
(Not as fun as using "space" or "in space" for everything. The Space Summoner must rescue his space Eidolon from the space-aliens! IN SPACE!)
Can you clarify the 2 point evolution? Is it an extra die added to SA damage for all natural attacks?
I think there should just be a clause in the 1 point evolution: "If you spend an additional (2?) point(s), this Sneak Attack damage applies to attacks with manufactured weapons, stacking each time you select this upgrade."
So if the eidolon has access to 3 natural attacks, it can spend 3 or 6 extra points beyond the original sneak attack evolution to add this sneak attack damage to attacks with manufactured weapons.
Of course, we would then have to balance this with the good possibility that the Eidolon uses both manufactured weapons and natural attacks...
We could instead treat manufactured weapons as a separate natural attack, but make it so that the eidolon can stack SA damage dice on manufactured weapon attacks, up to a maximum of the Stealth Summoner's Sneak Attack dice (minimum 1). Each time the Eidolon adds one die to his manufactured weapon attacks, he may add a sneak attack die to one less natural attack. So at level 1, the Eidolon would use a Dagger(for example). The Summoner adds Sneak Attack damage to the Eidolon's attack with the dagger, and can now only add a die of sneak attack to two of the Eidolon's natural attacks.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Yes, we should be able to do both, as the reduction to paladin summoning will alos allow some adjustments to the eidolon, like I've suggested. If you/we (emphasis on you) don't want to go the sneak attack and rogue talent route with the eidolon, that's fine. Now, a limit of +1d6 in conjunction with it's multiattack would balance fine, as such attacks would need to be on the same target anyways. Ultimately, that could give it a total of +7d6 sneak attack with a max of 7 natural attacks. Could also limit it to only 1/2 its max attacks can be sneaks. Either way, we have lots of maneuvering room to build tis thing with paladin spellcasting.
So it would be one extra point cost per natural attack to get the sneak attack? or would it be a flat bonus?
I feel it should be able to take an evolution to get the same number of SAs as the Summoner if it uses a manufactured weapon (this is common later on).
Maybe the Eidolon could get a new 2-point evolution to take a Rogue Talent that is not an Advanced Talent. That way it could get Weapon Finesse, Poison Use, Etc.
@Elghinn: We seem to be going in different directions with this. I wanted the Stealth Summoner to essentially be a Rogue with Eidolon support.
I think having such a reduced number of Sneak Attack dice AND an Evolution to give those to the Eidolon is going a bit too far in diluting the abilities.
Instead of Diminished Spellcasting, we could allow the Summoner to choose Rogue-Style SLAs, say one every two levels, up to 4th level spells. Each of them castable (4-Spell Level, up to a max of twice per day) times per day.
the MCA should get more RTs for losing the Summon Monster line, since he is losing a huge boon to flanking in return for his rogue talents. Actually, that gives me an idea for a Rogue/Summoner MCA... Add it to the queue.
And reducing the number of evolutions the Eidolon gets - especially for a Summoner-based MCA - is going a bit too far in my opinion.
your suggested Uncanny Dodge and Imp. Uncanny Dodge's point costs are too high considering the actual value of the abilities, especially since the eidolon gets fewer hit dice than a PC anyways.
I do like the limits on the Eidolon Magic line, but if players want to make their stealthy Eidolon Huge, they should be able to do it - the fact that it isn't a good idea should keep most from doing it.
@Secondary Discussion: I tend to go Starfox's way when it comes to building these things.
Maybe the Eidolon could only get SA from its target being flat-footed. Of course, a 2-point evolution to add Sneak Attack up to an upper limit of the master's would be a simpler solution, I think.
I feel like the Rogue talents themselves were originally meant to 'compensate' the Rogue's lack of spellcasting - of course, it wasn't very successful. Those RTs are there mostly for flavor.
And to your last point, this is a Summoner MCA - it only needs to keep from passing the Summoner, a T2 class.
We could just remove spellcasting outside of a few SLAs (e.g. Blur).
Sneak Attack (Ex): At 1st level, and every three levels thereafter, the Stealth Summoner gains one die of Sneak Attack, as the Rogue ability. The Eidolon gains an equal number of Sneak Attack dice. This replaces the Summon Monster SLA.
Diminished Spellcasting (Su): as the normal ability
Stealthy Eidolon (Su): The Stealth Summoner's Eidolon has the same base stats as an Eidolon of the Serpentine base form, no matter what their actual form is. In addition, its high saves are always Reflex and Will. This means that the Eidolon's base form only affects the base evolutions granted, and the weapon/attack size (in the case of a Biped base form).
Rogue Talents (Su or Ex): The Stealth Summoner gains a Rogue Talent every five levels, gaining access to Advanced Rogue Talents as normal for a Rogue of his level. The Eidolon also gains these talents. These talents replace spells lost due to Diminished Spellcasting.
Alright, so far, here is who is in the running:
Akoto - Goliath Psionic Warrior
Various other ideas for marksmen, Aegii, etc.
please post at least a tentative background if you would like to join - otherwise I think we have our first party.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well I'm SAYING that because I've only submitted Summoner-based MCAs and helped out on others' Summoner-based concepts.*shrugs*
GM Arkwright wrote:
It really depends on how far the character will go to help himself.
@Arkwright: Standard Golarion deities, but worship is illegal in Aeon. A lot of people worship gods anyways though, barring Nethys.
@All: I really hope I don't have to boot anyone... I'll get with the guy who helped me build the city and see if he wants to run a secondary campaign. Or maybe I can just run a second party, idk.
@Talinthal: Yes, except it costs money paid in either time served in the Legion or just plain paid.
On a side note, after reading a short thing in another campaign about how to be evil, I really really hate the way DnD and Pathfinder portrays 'evil'. THEY portray it as the destruction of things for the sake of destruction, but in actuality, it's more of a 'I will take care of myself first and foremost' situation.
Aw crud, sorry everyone, I've been... busy... playing Pokemon X and dodging essays all weekend. Also the system was down for all but 6 hours on the weekend and I couldn't be bothered with trying to use it after a while.
I'll start getting everything up.
@Arkwright, outside the City is a wilderness. The most powerful entity out there is a barbaric Horde, but they're too wrapped up in their own problems to give a fudge about Aeon at the moment. There are also several trading partners with the Eastern City, who I'm sure would LOVE to find something to blackmail the city with.
@Elton, thank you.
@Flibber de Gibbet, approved. Just remember that Evil characters aren't necessarily complete douches, they just care less about life that is not theirs.
@Steven: A 3rd party called Abandoned Arts. They create a lot of feats and stuff that flesh out the options available more.
@Nalgi: Don't worry, the scrolls cost like 2000 gold. Wands, though... I don't know.
So with my plan, it's a DC 35 check to capsize a Warship, and Chomps will have a Strength score of, like, 34 MINIMUM, and he will be around level 10 by the time we actually have to deal with one...
I suddenly see us needing some masks of underwater breath.
1. Take a level of Druid(Pack Lord) and purchase a Wand of Animal Growth.
And then, I can get that wizard to cast Permanency on Chomps when I cast Enlarge Person, making him the next size up from Huge...
GARGANTUAN apparently. Geez.