#Ki Mage
I think we can rework the table like this.
Keep
Ki pool (moved to 1st)
Sneak attack (up to 7d6)
Ninja tricks (5; allow choice of Bloodline feats as a ninja trick)
Master tricks
Swap
Poison use = Cantrips (limited to 3 or 4, usable as long as there is 1 ki point)
Ninja Ticks (5) = Ki spells (1st - 5th level blooldine spells, ki powered)
UCD/Imp UCD/No trace/Light steps = Bloodline powers (1/3/9/15; no 20th level power)
Hidden Master = Ki Master (gains 6th level bloodline spell + something else)
Table: Ki Mage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Cantrips, ki pool, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Ki spell (1)
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline power (1st), sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Ninja trick
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power (3rd)
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Ki spell (2)
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Ninja trick
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Ki spell (3)
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power (9th)
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Master tricks, ninja trick
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Ki spell (4)
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Sneak attack +6d6
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Ninja trick
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power (15th)
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Ki spell (5)
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Ki master (Ki spell 6th), ninja trick
Wow, didn't think I was gone THAT long... I have a lot of catching up to do from 2 full threads now.
Btw, are you guys upset about the advance class guide? As soon as it came out I thought it was a cheap knock off of an MCA.
Wow, didn't think I was gone THAT long... I have a lot of catching up to do from 2 full threads now.
Btw, are you guys upset about the advance class guide? As soon as it came out I thought it was a cheap knock off of an MCA.
You aren't the first person to say something like this - there was plenty of linking to our wiki and threads on the various ACG playtest threads.
I guess I personally take it as a sort of justification of Elghinn's vision. Also, the Dreamscarred Press forum has started their own Psionic Multiclass Archetypes thread that is now four pages long and has the blessing of the Dreamscarred guys (Jeremy Smith and Andreas Ronnquist) who are apparently looking to put it in a furture product.
I must point out however that there is a slight difference between "hybrids" and multiclass archetypes. Hybrids have two "parent classes", where we have a Primary and Secondary class. We use the Primary class as a chassis to determine what we swap away and replace, though like hybrids, we treat HD, BAB and spell use as fluid and tweakable. Also, like hybrids we freely tweak abilities to match the new theme.
My Opinion (Not the Official MCP's or other members): I'm not. OGL stuff is always open to anyone. "IF" we influened them to go that route, then we did our job. Personally, I think we do a better job at mashing two classes together than they do, but then, we have 3 years and over 100 MCA constructions to their couple months and 10 hybrid classes. At least that's what I think. Plus, we drawn from a lot more source al (aka the MCA thread fans). That's something they don't do, except with playtests...sort of.
Hey guys,
As usual, I have been lurking for ages without posting anything of note. The line must be drawn here!
Just wondering if you guys are interested in doing an MCA that incorporates an ACG class. I will post the idea if you feel inclined to allow it.
*BAMF!*... /scurries back into the shadows
Hey guys,
As usual, I have been lurking for ages without posting anything of note. The line must be drawn here!Just wondering if you guys are interested in doing an MCA that incorporates an ACG class. I will post the idea if you feel inclined to allow it.
*BAMF!*... /scurries back into the shadows
Not yet, my young smurf. Not until the ACG is actually out officially and people have had a chance to peruse it for a bit to get used to the neqw classes, especially us.
K, I like the casting variation in the new book. I'll hold onto the idea.
I do think we could keep Word of Summoning as is, and with it, Improved Familiar, and Greater Word swapping out 5 hexes, I don't see why we need the diminished spellcasting. Hexes are usable at will, while the summoings are all limited to 1/day uses. More powerful yes, but extremely limited in its uses per day.
I have no problem with this; as (almost) always, my views are just that; views.
About the ACG; they started out much like MCAs (barely), but during playtest each of them got more and more fleshed out. I think they'll end up being more than half new material. Well, some of our MCAs are too, but overall the official Pazio designers are more self-confident than we are and make larger changes. We have collaborative design, they have playtesters. In the final analysis, its very much the same.
FYI I've been looking at making something like an MCA book for prestige classes. I call them Prestige Class Archetypes. Many of those are actually MCAs in disguise (like the Mystic Theurge), others are more their own thing or a mix of a prestige class and a regular class. I've done the ones from the core book and am working on more. I'm open to collaboration if there's interest - that would need to be its own series of forum threads.
K, I like the casting variation in the new book. I'll hold onto the idea.
We have discussed casting variations awfully close to the arcanist, so if that's your only ACG link, I don't think it's insurmountable.
Edit: But pass it by Enghinn first. I see he said no above and he's the one pulling the heavy load here.
# Ki Mage
Trying to find something clever to say and failing. Swaps look ok, possibly a tad weak considering how expensive the spells are to use. The concept is a ninja movie classic.
If I were to make a suggestion on this, simply grant a modified shadow bloodline and keep it simple.
I think we'll guse have the Bloodline entry say that the Shadow Bloodline complements the Ki Mage archetype. I know we on occasion do pigeonhole MCAs into specific bloodlines/schools/orders/etc., but I don't think it's necessary here.
Trying to find something clever to say and failing. Swaps look ok, possibly a tad weak considering how expensive the spells are to use. The concept is a ninja movie classic.
If others feel the swaps could be a tad weak, we can always reinsert No Trace or Light Steps. OR we simply put Light Steps with the ki pool, allowing her to expend ki points to use it? Or have it be an "at least 1 ki point" ability. Haven't actually done the write-ups yet to see how it all fleshes out, probably tomorrow or so.
Orelius - Resident Summoner MCA Expert
Resident expert? You've only done one MCA of your own so far, Orelius
(and yes it was a Summoner MCA). Just saying...:D ;)(Notice the smile and winky smile. I really wish they have emoticons on here)
So my new signature will be Resident Oracle of Words XD
I'm wondering if, for my next pièce, I should do the Secret Sect Knight or a new Cavalier/Oracle that occurred to me. How's Cavaliere di Grazia (Knight of Grace) for a name? Is an Italian name okay? (It's a real title of the Order of Malta).
So my new signature will be Resident Oracle of Words XD
I'm wondering if, for my next pièce, I should do the Secret Sect Knight or a new Cavalier/Oracle that occurred to me. How's Cavaliere di Grazia (Knight of Grace) for a name? Is an Italian name okay? (It's a real title of the Order of Malta).
There's a road in my town called "Ambrose Knight"... I've always though that sounded rather elegant
If I were to make a suggestion on this, simply grant a modified shadow bloodline and keep it simple.I think we'll guse have the Bloodline entry say that the Shadow Bloodline complements the Ki Mage archetype. I know we on occasion do pigeonhole MCAs into specific bloodlines/schools/orders/etc., but I don't think it's necessary here.
Trying to find something clever to say and failing. Swaps look ok, possibly a tad weak considering how expensive the spells are to use. The concept is a ninja movie classic.If others feel the swaps could be a tad weak, we can always reinsert No Trace or Light Steps. OR we simply put Light Steps with the ki pool, allowing her to expend ki points to use it? Or have it be an "at least 1 ki point" ability. Haven't actually done the write-ups yet to see how it all fleshes out, probably tomorrow or so.
Orelius - Resident Summoner MCA ExpertResident expert? You've only done one MCA of your own so far, Orelius
(and yes it was a Summoner MCA). Just saying...:D ;)(Notice the smile and winky smile. I really wish they have emoticons on here)
Well I'm SAYING that because I've only submitted Summoner-based MCAs and helped out on others' Summoner-based concepts.
*shrugs*
So my new signature will be Resident Oracle of Words XD.
I'm wondering if, for my next pièce, I should do the Secret Sect Knight or a new Cavalier/Oracle that occurred to me. How's Cavaliere di Grazia (Knight of Grace) for a name? Is an Italian name okay? (It's a real title of the Order of Malta).
I think using the English version would be better, but I do like either one. Knight of Grace is cool. Not sure which is your next one on the queue. Not at home right now.
There's a road in my town called "Ambrose Knight"... I've always though that sounded rather elegant
Ambose Knight sounds cool too. Almost sounds something like Knight of Ambosia (as in the substanc in Greek mythology that turned mortals into immortlas/gods) We might need to figure out and MCA to fit the name, one whose either a Paladin or Cavalier primary, who searches for ultimate enlightenment or glory in the name of his/her god and eventually gains immortality as a 20th level capstone. Maybe a Cav/Clr or Clr/Cav? One whose seeking to obtain an eternal rest with the gods through their deeds (whether evil or good).
Hmmm, might need to do that one myself. Mind if I steal Ambrose Knight (most likely it'll be Knight of Ambosia) Dustyboy?
@Bardess
Looks like your Secret Sect Knight is your next one, unless you want to do your Knight of GRace instead.
And here's a queue update.
QUEUE
Planar Witch – Sum/Wtc (Raider) *Current
Ki Mage – Nnj/Wiz (Byrdology/Toaster)*Current
Wilderness/Overgrowth Lord – Drd/Clr (Dustyboy)
Battle Sorcerer– Mag/Sor (Starfox)
“Name” – Sor/Rgr (Browman)
“Name” – Sum/Rog (Orelius)
Haunted Gunman – Gun/Wtc (Toaster)
Pactgifted Mayhem/Fury/Nordyperson/Summoner (Sum/Witch) (OSW)
Secret Sect Knight - Cav/Inq (Bardess)
Cursed Warrior – Ftr/Ora (Thomas A./Kyras)
Rune Mage – Alc/Mag (Elghinn)
About the ACG; they started out much like MCAs (barely), but during playtest each of them got more and more fleshed out. I think they'll end up being more than half new material. Well, some of our MCAs are too, but overall the official Pazio designers are more self-confident than we are and make larger changes. We have collaborative design, they have playtesters. In the final analysis, its very much the same.
FYI I've been looking at making something like an MCA book for prestige classes. I call them Prestige Class Archetypes. Many of those are actually MCAs in disguise (like the Mystic Theurge), others are more their own thing or a mix of a prestige class and a regular class. I've done the ones from the core book and am working on more. I'm open to collaboration if there's interest - that would need to be its own series of forum threads.
K, I like the casting variation in the new book. I'll hold onto the idea.We have discussed casting variations awfully close to the arcanist, so if that's your only ACG link, I don't think it's insurmountable.
Edit: But pass it by Enghinn first. I see he said no above and he's the one pulling the heavy load here.
so...This?
so...This?
Thx, will look at it more closely tomorrow.
OK no more PrC Archetypes threadjacking you goons, back to the Ki Mage and Planar Witch.
@Everyone
Uh, who was it that had the idea of injecting spells with magical poison or something like that? It was for a Sorcerer MCA a while back, I think. Browman, was that you? Can't remember. Who ever it was, let me know what your idea it was exactly. I think it may be good for the ki mage as a ki ability.
OK no more PrC Archetypes threadjacking you goons, back to the Ki Mage and Planar Witch.
@Everyone
Uh, who was it that had the idea of injecting spells with magical poison or something like that? It was for a Sorcerer MCA a while back, I think. Browman, was that you? Can't remember. Who ever it was, let me know what your idea it was excatly. I think it may be good for the ki mage as a ki ability.
indeed
OK, here's my fully fleshed out Ki Mage, plus I've added in a ki-based Toxic Infusion ability.
While most ninja’s focus primarily on perfecting their skills of stealth and subterfuge, some seek to harness their ki energy for the soul purpose of casting spells and enhancing their attacks. Ki mages are practitioners of ki magic who can trace their bloodline back to a powerful ancestor. By honing body and mind, they are able to tap into their reservoir of power to cast spells and accomplish amazing feats.
Primary: Ninja.
Secondary: Sorcerer.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The ki mage selects three sorcerer skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal ninja class skills. The ki mage gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +4 Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ki mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. The ki mage is also proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Bloodline: At 1st level, a ki mage gains the sorcerer’s bloodline ability. She can choose any bloodline listed in the sorcerer class description, and adds her bloodline skill to her list of class skills.
At 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a ki mage learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the ki spells she learns at each interval. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
At 3rd level, a ki mage gains her 1st–level bloodline power. At 5th level and every six levels thereafter, she gains each subsequent level of bloodline power, up to her 15th–level bloodline power at 17th level.
A ki mage treats her ki mage level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of determining the effects of her bloodline powers and spells. This ability replaces sneak attack +3d6, +5d6 and +8d6, no trace, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge,
Cantrips: At 1st level, a ki mage learns 4 cantrips, or 0–levels from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. As long as she has at least 1 ki point, she can cast these spells like any other ki spell she knows, but they do not consume any ki points and may be used again. This ability and ki spells replace the ninja tricks gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the ninja’s ability of the same name, except that the ki mage’s extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 at 3rd, 7th, 9th, 13th, 15th and 19th level.
Ki Pool (Su): This is exactly like the ninja’s ability of the same name, except that the ki mage gains it at 1st level. A ki mage also uses her ki pool to power her cantrips, ki spells and her ki toxin abilities.
Ki Spells: Starting at 2nd level, a ki mage casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. She can cast any spell she knows by expending points from her ki pool. To learn or cast a spell, a ki mage must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ki mage’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ki mage’s Charisma modifier. When casting a spell, a ki mage must expend a number of ki points equal to 1/2 the level of the spell rounded up (minimum 1). Thus, a ki mage must expend 1 ki point to cast a 1st– or 2nd–level spell, 2 ki points to cast a 3rd– or 4th–level spell, and 3 ki points to cast a 5th level spell.
A ki mage’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A ki mage begins play knowing four 0-level spells and one 1st-level spells of her choice. She also adds her 1st–level bloodline spell to her list of spells known. At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, a ki mage gains one new spell of the level indicated on Table: Ki Mage, and adds her bloodline spell of the appropriate spell level at each interval.
Upon reaching 6th level, and at every four ki mage levels after that (10th, 14th, and 18th), a ki mage can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows (but not bloodline spells). In effect, the ki mage loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A ki mage may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her ki points for the day.
Poison Use (Ex): This is exactly like the ninja ability of the same name, except that the ki mage gains it at 2nd level.
Toxic Infusion (Su): At 6th level, a ki mage can manipulate the nature of her spells. Whenever the ki mage casts a spell that deals damage, she can replace that spell’s normal damage with acid damage or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of acid damage and half is of its normal type. The target of a toxic infusion spell must make a successful Fortitude save or become exposed to ki toxin.
Alternatively, a ki mage can expend 1 ki point as a swift action to apply a dose of ki toxin to her weapon. Ki toxin has the following statistics.
Ki Toxin—injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the ki mage’s level + the ki mage’s Charisma modifier; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1 Con damage; cure 1 save.
This ability replaces light steps.
Master Tricks: At 12th level, whenever the ki mage could select a ninja trick or when she selects the Extra Rogue Talent feat, she can select a master trick instead. The ki mage adds the following ninja abilities to the list of master tricks she may select: No Trace, Uncanny Dodge, Light steps, and Improved Uncanny Dodge. A ki mage must select uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. A ki mage treats her level as her ninja level for the purpose of qualifying for tricks with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any trick or ninja ability she's chosen.
Ki Master (Su): At 20th level, a ki mage adds her 6th level bloodline spell to her list of spells known. She can cast this spell by expending 3 ki points. In addition, whenever the ki mage deals sneak attack damage, she can expend points from her ki pool to deal additional damage dice. Whenever a ki mage makes a successful sneak attack, she can expend up to 3 ki points as an immediate action to increase her sneak attack damage by 1d6 per ki point expended, up to a maximum sneak attack damage of 10d6. This ability replaces hidden master.
Table: Ki Mage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bloodline, cantrips, ki pool, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Ki spell (1st), poison use
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline power, sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Ninja trick
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Ki spell (2nd), toxic spells
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Ninja trick
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Ki spell (3rd)
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Master tricks, ninja trick
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Ki spell (4th)
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Sneak attack +6d6
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Ninja trick
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Ki spell (5th)
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Ki master, ninja trick
Hmm looks good, course extra ki is mandatory to keep up with high consumption rate.
Actually, I had thought about changing the Ki Mage's ki pool to ki mage level + Cha instead of 1/2 ki mage level + Cha, as so much of the MCA burns ki points. But, as that isn't what any ki pool does, I instead reduced the cost of ki spells to equal 1/2 spell level rounded up, thus reducing the expenditure of ki over all. But yes, extra ki will be a must anyways.
EDIT:
I decided that the Ki Mage should have more than just her bloodline spells, so I made it so she can know 1 spell of each spell level she can cast from the sorcerer sppll list, plus her bloodline spells. So, she knows only 2 spell of each spell level she can cast (except 6th for Ki Master, which she knows only her blooldine spell). With such a kigh expenditure of ki points with this MCA, I figured a little more optionality and customization with spells would be good.
I also did with Master Tricks what we do with Advanced Talents, allowing certain lost ninja abilities as selectable as master tricks, incase the PC wants to obtain those abilities at the cost of a trick.
What do people think of the Toxic Infusion ability? I sort of based it on the Elemental Spell metamagic feat, and the Serpentine bloodline's 1st elvel bloodline power's poison. Not overly potent, but another weapon in the ki mage's arsenal.
#Planar Witch
Anything else on Planar Witch? Do you think we can go without diminished spellcasting?
So my new signature will be Resident Oracle of Words XD.
I'm wondering if, for my next pièce, I should do the Secret Sect Knight or a new Cavalier/Oracle that occurred to me. How's Cavaliere di Grazia (Knight of Grace) for a name? Is an Italian name okay? (It's a real title of the Order of Malta).I think using the English version would be better, but I do like either one. Knight of Grace is cool. Not sure which is your next one on the queue. Not at home right now.
There's a road in my town called "Ambrose Knight"... I've always though that sounded rather elegantAmbose Knight sounds cool too. Almost sounds something like Knight of Ambosia (as in the substanc in Greek mythology that turned mortals into immortlas/gods) We might need to figure out and MCA to fit the name, one whose either a Paladin or Cavalier primary, who searches for ultimate enlightenment or glory in the name of his/her god and eventually gains immortality as a 20th level capstone. Maybe a Cav/Clr or Clr/Cav? One whose seeking to obtain an eternal rest with the gods through their deeds (whether evil or good).
Hmmm, might need to do that one myself. Mind if I steal Ambrose Knight (most likely it'll be Knight of Ambosia) Dustyboy?
Sounds good, just put in the mythical city of "Greenwich" as something to do with history...
Maybe an odd alchemist mutagen combined with rage powers type thing would work? Like still a cavalier but he drinks of the god drink and gains strange magical form, and picks from something akin to rage powers for its duration?
Just an idea
also will there be a release time table for the other classes? like the greyedout and unfinished ones?
Maybe an odd alchemist mutagen combined with rage powers type thing would work? Like still a cavalier but he drinks of the god drink and gains strange magical form, and picks from something akin to rage powers for its duration?
Seems great! We still haven't a Cavalier/Alchemist!
So I think I will make the Knight of Grace next, Elghinn. :P The others will wait in queue.
Maybe an odd alchemist mutagen combined with rage powers type thing would work? Like still a cavalier but he drinks of the god drink and gains strange magical form, and picks from something akin to rage powers for its duration?
I was thinking Cav/Clr but the other night I had the thought it should be a Cav/Alc with a lean towards the divine vs. arcane. Essentially a mutagenic "drink of ambrosia" that grants god-like powers for a short time. May create a new Order, depending if the concept warrants it. It almost will require a bit of Clr or even Sor (domain or bloodline influence) to get the right flavor as a warrior that uses the "drink of the gods" to work on behalf of his deity, and seeking to obtain an eternal reward, whether that's with a goodly or vile deity. I'll have to do some pondering.
Seems great! We still haven't a Cavalier/Alchemist!
So I think I will make the Knight of Grace next, Elghinn. :P The others will wait in queue.
Sounds good, then I'll bump your others down the queue.
Really, it is most fun to put up a half-finished project here,so we can fill out the holes together.
So make suggestions, I'm not married to any particular idea.
Really, it is most fun to put up a half-finished project here,so we can fill out the holes together.
@Elghinn: I thnk Starfox is saying rather than always bring a formatted MCA here to the thread and then refine it, have two classes and a concept/some abilities and then build the MCA on the thread. Though I could be wrong.
@Starfox: If I have understood your comment correctly, that has happened in the earliest threads, and the Multiclass Productions Crew have embarked on a few groupthink MCAs (the Eldritch Banneret and the Weeping Executioner) where we take turns adding a class to a Primary, then a role/flavour, then propose tweaks to abilities etc. It can work.
People also commonly bring set ideas/broad concepts within which they are prepared to be flexible on the fine strokes, OR are dead set on achieving a certain design path or flavor theme. Mostly I tend toward the latter, with a set idea, but very occasionally I'm open to seeing where other people might spread my idea's wings to as it were. Mostly I already have the concept and what I want it to do, but even then *other* people very occasionally have a good idea. ;)
Really, it is most fun to put up a half-finished project here,so we can fill out the holes together.@Elghinn: I thnk Starfox is saying rather than always bring a formatted MCA here to the thread and then refine it, have two classes and a concept/some abilities and then build the MCA on the thread. Though I could be wrong.
You read me right Oceanshielwolf. That is what I meant. I tend to work everything out in private before posting. On the other hand Bardess' most recent project, Knight of Grace, looks like she had only a rough idea and is posting that. I think that's a great way to do things.
About the current projects, I don't have many new ideas. I am still not fond of Ki Mage paying the same cost for level 1-3 spells, but I already commented on that for a previous class with similar mechanics so not much new there.
Not been feeling very creative at all this week.
@Ki Mage
ACtually its 1 point for 1st-2nd, 2 points for 3rd-4th, 3 for 5th.
EDIT: Most people bring their concepts mostly fleshed out. I try to give people ample opportunity to give ideas, and I'm always open to anyone giving suggestions, but it really comes down the original poster, whether they are happy or not with the result. But I'm for throwing up basic concepts and building them together from scrath too, but it just doesn't necessarily happen very often here. Also, the way I work, I prefer to work off pretty fleshed out abilities (whether the MCA's levels are actually filled or not), that's just how I work. OSW has said it a few times, one a guy who will scratch parts, most, or all of an MCA if its isn't working of if we find better abilities and concepts to realize the original concept. I'm always open to changes.
For Ki Mage, the question is, is Christos happy with it?
My latest MCAs were completely or nearly made when I posted them here, and Elghinn only had to correct them. But if you find better to work together on a rough idea (and yes, I only HAVE a rough idea of this and other archetypes I want to make as for now), all the best for me, so I save work at home! :) What do you say, guys?
My latest MCAs were completely or nearly made when I posted them here, and Elghinn only had to correct them. But if you find better to work together on a rough idea (and yes, I only HAVE a rough idea of this and other archetypes I want to make as for now), all the best for me, so I save work at home! :) What do you say, guys?
Just saying it CAN work this way, not saying it HAS TO work this way. Let each of us do as we like.
Oh yeah, I'm open to either way. Quite often in one of the previous threads, one of the usual posters would give the primary, secondary, and a list of abilities to keep and ones to swap in. Then we'd just work out the swaps and any additional abilities to create a synergy. So it does work.
Bardess has done this in the past too, and if that's the way you want to go with yours Starfox, I'm good to go. Really, all one needs is the primary/secondary combo, and a solid concept, role, and flavor (especially flavor), the rest can be worked out on the thread.
Last Call
Alright, anything further on Ki Mage or Planar Witch?
@Planar Witch: Can we go with NO diminished spellcasting as it is, or not?
@Ki Mage: Christos/Byrd how you liking this one?
If we're chucking the domain abilities, sure, we can probably drop diminished casting.
You good with that Raider?
Final Versions
Although witches tend to have a powerful bond with the strange and indescribable–be it a pure force of nature or the forces of mind and matter–some delve deep into the strange mysteries of the mind and other planes of existence. These witches walk a fine line between sanity and madness, and in so doing, some becomes devoured by the madness. While a planar witch might risk falling over this thin line entirely, most find a pure source of intelligence and power beyond their plane of existence, and strive to serve it to their utmost ability.
Primary: Witch.
Secondary: Summoner.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The planar witch selects three summoner skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal witch class skills. The planar witch gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +2 Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The planar witch is proficient with all simple weapons. The planar witch is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a planar witch’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Planar Patron: This is exactly like the witch’s patron spells ability, except that when a planar witch gains her familiar, she must select the Chaos, Evil, Good, Law, or Madness domain instead of a patron. At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, a planar witch adds her domain spells to her list of spells known. These spells are also automatically added to the list of spells stored by her familiar. A planar witch does not gain any domain powers.
Summoning Charm: At 1st level, a planar witch adds half her class level (minimum 1) to the duration of her summon monster spells. In addition, a planar witch can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn't prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any summon monster spell of the same level or lower. This ability replaces the hex gained at 1st level.
Word of Summoning (Sp): At 2nd level, a planar witch can speak a single word to summon an ally to the battlefield. A planar witch chooses one creature from a summon monster list of a level she can cast. Once chosen, it cannot be changed. As a swift action, the planar witch can summon this creature for one minute, once per day. Alternatively, the planar witch can choose a creature from a summon monster list two levels lower than she can cast and summon it for 1 hour, once per day. At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, a planar witch can choose one additional creature from a summon monster lists of a level she can cast, or one additional creature from a summon monster list two levels lower. The planar witch can summon each selected creature for 1 minute (or 1 hour) once per day. A planar witch can have only one word of summing in effect at a time.
In addition, any creature summoned with the planar witch’s word of summoning ability gains one of the following templates, as determined by the planar witch’s chosen domain: Alien (Madness), Celestial (Good), Entropic (Chaos), Fiendish (Evil), or Resolute (Law). This ability, Improved Familiar, and greater word replace the spells lost due to diminished spellcasting and the hexes gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that a planar witch gains a hex at 4t level and every four levels thereafter. In addition, whenever a planar witch uses her hex ability, her caster level is equal to her planar witch level –3.
Improved Familiar: At 5th level, a planar witch gains Improved Familiar as a bonus feat.
Major Hex: At 12th level, a planar witch gains the major hex ability, instead of at 10th level.
Greater Word (Sp): At 14th level, a planar witch can use her word of summoning ability to choose one creature from a summon monster list of one level lower than she can cast. As a swift action, she can summon 1d4 of these creatures for 1 minute, once per day. Alternatively, the planar witch can choose a creature from a summon monster list three levels lower than she can cast and summon 1d4 of these creatures for 1 hour, once per day.
Outbound Avatar (Su): At 20th level, a planar witch becomes a pure force of her patron’s will. She gains a +2 bonus to her Intelligence, DR 5/magic, and the smite attack associated with her word of summoning creature template. If the planar witch chose the Madness domain, she instead gains the ability to acquire a random alien advantage for 1 minute, once per day. This ability replaces grand hex.
Table: Planar Witch
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Cantrips, diminished spellcasting, 3 1 — — — — — — — —
planar patron, summoning charm,
witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Word of summoning 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Hex 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved Familiar 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Word of summoning 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Word of summoning 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Hex, major hex 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Greater word, word of summoning 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Word of summoning 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Hex, outbound avatar 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
SIMPLE TEMPLATE: ALIEN (CR +0 or +1)
Alien creatures dwell in the furthest planes, but can be summoned using spells such as summon monster and planar ally.
An alien creature's CR increases by +1 only if the base creature has 5 or more HD.
An alien creature's quick and rebuild rules are the same.
Table: Alien Creature Defenses
Resist Acid,
Hit Dice Cold, and Fire DR
1-4 5 —
5-10 10 5/magic
11+ 15 10/magic
Rebuild Rules
Senses The creature gains darkvision 60 ft.
Defensive Abilities The creature gains damage reduction and energy resistance as noted on Table: Alien Creature Defense.
SR The creature gains spell resistance equal to its new CR +5
Special Attacks The creature randomly gains (roll 1d6) one of the advantages from the Alien Advantages list.
Alien Advantages
Roll Effect
1 The creature gains the crazed gaze attack that deals 1 point of Wisdom damage to a single target as a swift action, once per round. A
successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the creature’s Hit Dice + the creature’s Wisdom modifier) negates the damage.
2 The creature gains an acid aura that deals 1 point of acid damage each round to any adjacent creature. It also increases it’s the acid
resistance of the creature by 5.
3 The creature deals 1d4 points of cold damage with its primary natural attacks.
4 The creature grows two tentacles and gains a slam attack that deals damage according to its size.
5 The creature can cast enlarge person on itself three times per day.
6 The creature’s DR type changes from magic to untyped. For example, a creature with DR 5/magic becomes DR 5/ —.
Editor’s Note: All evolutions should be useful, no need to balance against each other so long as the majority aren’t overpowered. The advantage of randomizing means they won’t be able to pick the best for a situation (shouldn’t give movement modes or out-of-combat particulars, to avoid a ‘lose’ feeling)
Starfox raised an issue with the cost of ki spells (1 ki point for 1st & 2nd, 2 for 3rd and 4th, and 3 for 5th). Anyone else have an issue with it. Should it be 1 ki point per spell level? I think that's quite taxing on the ki pool, but if everyone thinks that it should be 1 point per spell level, then I'll change it.
While most ninja’s focus primarily on perfecting their skills of stealth and subterfuge, some seek to harness their ki energy for the soul purpose of casting spells and enhancing their attacks. Ki mages are practitioners of ki magic who can trace their bloodline back to a powerful ancestor. By honing body and mind, they are able to tap into their reservoir of power to cast spells and accomplish amazing feats.
Primary: Ninja.
Secondary: Sorcerer.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The ki mage selects three sorcerer skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal ninja class skills. The ki mage gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +4 Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ki mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. The ki mage is also proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Bloodline: At 1st level, a ki mage gains the sorcerer’s bloodline ability. She can choose any bloodline listed in the sorcerer class description, and adds her bloodline skill to her list of class skills.
At 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a ki mage learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the ki spells she learns at each interval. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
At 3rd level, a ki mage gains her 1st–level bloodline power. At 5th level and every six levels thereafter, she gains each subsequent level of bloodline power, up to her 15th–level bloodline power at 17th level.
A ki mage treats her ki mage level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of determining the effects of her bloodline powers and spells. This ability replaces sneak attack +3d6, +5d6 and +8d6, no trace, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge,
Cantrips: At 1st level, a ki mage learns 4 cantrips, or 0–levels from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. As long as she has at least 1 ki point, she can cast these spells like any other ki spell she knows, but they do not consume any ki points and may be used again. This ability and ki spells replace the ninja tricks gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the ninja’s ability of the same name, except that the ki mage’s extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 at 3rd, 7th, 9th, 13th, 15th and 19th level.
Ki Pool (Su): This is exactly like the ninja’s ability of the same name, except that the ki mage gains it at 1st level. A ki mage also uses her ki pool to power her cantrips, ki spells and her toxic infusion abilities.
Ki Spells: Starting at 2nd level, a ki mage casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. She can cast any spell she knows by expending points from her ki pool. To learn or cast a spell, a ki mage must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ki mage’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ki mage’s Charisma modifier. When casting a spell, a ki mage must expend a number of ki points equal to 1/2 the level of the spell rounded up (minimum 1). Thus, a ki mage must expend 1 ki point to cast a 1st– or 2nd–level spell, 2 ki points to cast a 3rd– or 4th–level spell, and 3 ki points to cast a 5th level spell.
A ki mage’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A ki mage begins play knowing four 0-level spells and one 1st-level spells of her choice. She also adds her 1st–level bloodline spell to her list of spells known. At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, a ki mage gains one new spell of the level indicated on Table: Ki Mage, and adds her bloodline spell of the appropriate spell level at each interval.
Upon reaching 6th level, and at every four ki mage levels after that (10th, 14th, and 18th), a ki mage can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows (but not bloodline spells). In effect, the ki mage loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A ki mage may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her ki points for the day.
Poison Use (Ex): This is exactly like the ninja ability of the same name, except that the ki mage gains it at 2nd level.
Toxic Infusion (Su): At 6th level, a ki mage can manipulate the nature of her spells. Whenever the ki mage casts a spell that deals damage, she can replace that spell’s normal damage with acid damage or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of acid damage and half is of its normal type. The target of a toxic infusion spell must make a successful Fortitude save or become exposed to ki toxin.
Alternatively, a ki mage can expend 1 ki point as a swift action to apply a dose of ki toxin to her weapon. Ki toxin has the following statistics.
Ki Toxin—injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the ki mage’s level + the ki mage’s Charisma modifier; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1 Con damage; cure 1 save.
This ability replaces light steps.
Master Tricks: At 12th level, whenever the ki mage could select a ninja trick or when she selects the Extra Rogue Talent feat, she can select a master trick instead. The ki mage adds the following ninja abilities to the list of master tricks she may select: No Trace, Uncanny Dodge, Light steps, and Improved Uncanny Dodge. A ki mage must select uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. A ki mage treats her level as her ninja level for the purpose of qualifying for tricks with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any trick or ninja ability she's chosen.
Ki Master (Su): At 20th level, a ki mage adds her 6th level bloodline spell to her list of spells known. She can cast this spell by expending 3 ki points. In addition, whenever the ki mage deals sneak attack damage, she can expend points from her ki pool to deal additional damage dice. Whenever a ki mage makes a successful sneak attack, she can expend up to 3 ki points as an immediate action to increase her sneak attack damage by 1d6 per ki point expended, up to a maximum sneak attack damage of 10d6. This ability replaces hidden master.
Table: Ki Mage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bloodline, cantrips, ki pool, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Ki spell (1st), poison use
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline power, sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Ninja trick
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Ki spell (2nd), toxic infusion
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Ninja trick
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Ki spell (3rd)
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Master tricks, ninja trick
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Ki spell (4th)
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Sneak attack +6d6
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Ninja trick
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Ki spell (5th)
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Ki master, ninja trick
If there's no further comments on these by Monday morning, then we'll move on to the next two in the queue.
Wilderness/Overgrowth Lord – Drd/Clr (Dustyboy)
Battle Sorcerer– Mag/Sor (Starfox)
So, Starfox and Dustyboy, feel free to post your stuff Monday morinng if the Ki Mage and Planar Witch are good to go.
god i love that toxic infusion, it gives me half a reason to buy poison. love it elghinn.
wait, shouldn't we call the ki mage shinobi or genin or something?
We could, but I think Ki Mage tells you what the focus of the MCA is right off the start - Ki (either a ninja or monk) and Mage (arcane magic).
We could, but I think Ki Mage tells you what the focus of the MCA is right off the start - Ki (either a ninja or monk) and Mage (arcane magic).
right, but then you get to the sneak attack...i dunno, i got the impression it was just an arcane ninja.
Alright, on to the next two MCAs.
Dustyboy and Starfox, you're up next.
Planar Witch and Ki Mage are up on the Wiki.
Alright, on to the next two MCAs.
Dustyboy and Starfox, you're up next.
Planar Witch and Ki Mage are up on the Wiki.
So the cleric/druid?
I originally was going to go for a druid/cleric, but cleric druid fills an open slot.
First i wanted to say, if we used the Undead lord cleric archetype it'd help drastically.
Removing the second domain for an option of some of the "Druidic abilities" might also function well.
Using the druid spell list of course
The real centerpiece would be the yellow musk creeper, and his minions (Limited of course)
Well, Clr/Drd then. Let's see what you've got, lay out your concept and we can build it from there or if you have your concept pretty fleshed out, then post that up. Either way. For sure, give us what you want to keepf rom the Clreic and what you'd like to swap in from the driuid, including anything from Clr or Drd archetypes.
I just wanted to share some off topic news, but my first official product with little goblin games as a designer (tome of twisted things) just got a 5 star from endzeitgeist, and i really wanted to share it with guys. Thanks to all of you guys for getting me into the design process, this wouldn't have happened without the mca crew encouraging me on.
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I just wanted to share some off topic news, but my first official product with little goblin games as a designer (tome of twisted things) just got a 5 star from endzeitgeist, and i really wanted to share it with guys. Thanks to all of you guys for getting me into the design process, this wouldn't have happened without the mca crew encouraging me on.
Congratz, man! I can't take any credit for helping you since all your work likely happened way before I came in.
I'll take a look at the Battle Sorcerer tomorrow (past midnight here now).