Search Posts
Is this Lyz's first Author credit for an AP chapter? Excited to see it! Yep, this is my first Pathfinder Adventure Path cover credit! I also wrote Huskworld (Starfinder Adventure Path #21) last year. All the really cool, weird ideas happen in book 6. Everybody knows this. Yes, yes they do. I hope you have fun with them! This is a game where every +1 means a lot, given the degrees of success. Exactly right. Small number, pretty significant effect.
It makes me really happy to see y'all holding up Chris Jackson's work as a model—I've read a ton of his work (including the Pathfinder Tales) and I agree, he's done a wonderful job of portraying the details of our world. One of the challenges we're having in the move to the second edition of the game is that we can't bring forward 100% of what existed in the first edition, since we just literally don't have space for 10 years of class options (ok, 8 for the oracle) in one book. So we're making calls about what to bring forward in this book, knowing that others will come in later books, and knowing that the second edition will support some options that weren't possible in the first edition. Not everything people loved will make it forward in this book, as much as we wish it could, and since the playtest is testing core mechanics more than specific options, you're seeing an even smaller subset. We've heard lots of your input about what options you're wanting to see in the final class, and that's being incorporated.
And while we want there to be some incentive for you to not do ridiculous things with your familiar, we don't want it to be crippling, so we're working on some solutions here.And I do realize that you likely mean "ridiculous things" like "purposefully throwing the thing in front of a Fire Elemental and it surviving" level of ridiculous, but there should be incentive still for Witch familiars to do *great* things, at least at higher levels. Agreed! But a familiar is distinct from an animal companion or another combat-focused creature, so we want to avoid conflating those roles for the witch (again, as far as the core class is concerned). What about allowing a tattoo familiar on the witch's body? That way it is always with the witch and doesn't take separate damage from a fireball. The witch can animate the Tattoo and allow it to form an ectoplasmic body for 1 minute per witch level per day if she wants to send it scouting or deliver spells. If it's ectoplasmic form is destroyed, it reappears on the... Given the prominence of tattoos among Varisians and other cultural groups, I'd be surprised if this doesn't show up as an option at some point. ... I'm also glad Lyz as dropped in a few times and acknowledged that some things are genuinely screwy, and we all aren't just making a mountain out of a molehill that may or may not even be intentional in the first place We're definitely seeing the issues you all have raised! It's been very useful feedback. I've read every post in the witch (and oracle) forums, and I just don't have the time to respond as often as I'd like. But I'm hearing you, and I appreciate the input you all have written up!
The intent here is that you can put runes on your nails, and your hands gain those benefits, but they wouldn't apply to e.g. a lizardfolk tail unarmed attack or a goblin's unarmed bite attack, or any special unarmed attacks from a barbarian. It's letting you use runes without having to invest in handwraps of mighty blows, but with the downside that you dont' get the full benefits the handwraps would convey.
I'm digging these suggestions! There's a design space here that's aligning really well with mechanically weighted patrons that still allows lots of space for home-group players and GMs to create something unique, without making that aspect of the class unusable for Pathfinder Society and less experienced players.
This is totally my personal vision of what's happening here, and so whatever happens with the final version of the class, I intend for this still to be an option. As for the larger question of squishy spellbooks, I'm hearing you that your familiar being a required class feature but a separate creature causes certain problems, even if you're not taking unreasonable risks. We're having a similar conversation here in the office about how to address that. We think the familiar is heavily central to the witch class, so it's not going anywhere (and some of the variants like object familiars are probably going to appear in archetypes rather than the core class - check out the Magaambyan attendant archetype Mask Familiar feat in Lost Omens Character Guide for one example of what this might look like). And while we want there to be some incentive for you to not do ridiculous things with your familiar, we don't want it to be crippling, so we're working on some solutions here.
I'm definitely hearing this - it's not the right spell for that role. We're working on it!
Just popping in to observe that this thread is awfully similar in theme to the thread that I just had to lock, so please keep the discussion civil, respectful, and focused on the game. If you feel like you're getting heated, step away and cool off before posting. I love seeing the perspectives y'all have on this topic, but I don't want to have to keep moderating.
There should be an ability allowing to select spells from different domains/mysteries. There are a few that do this, but admittedly they're a bit higher in level. (See Mysterious Repertoire and Diverse Mystery feats.) There might be some room to pull those down a bit.
The way this discussion is going, I just really hope the end implementation isn't too restrictive. We also don't want something that's overly restrictive. It doesn't really fit with the concept of witch that we have within Golarion, and it would block a lot of play styles. You can always set additional restrictions on yourself if you want something more controlled, and ideally the design team can figure out a way to support that mechanically without forcing everyone into that narrower window.
To be completely transparent, you've hit the nail on the head. In Second Edition, a player who wants all the benefits of a divine spontaneous caster without having to maneuver around a curse mechanic has everything they want in a divine-tradition sorcerer. The oracle in Second Edition is aimed at the player who dig the "power at a cost," balancing risks and rewards, and similar options. There's absolutely nothing stopping a player from creating a fantastic narrative of a devil bloodline sorcerer whose infernal ancestor likes to meddle in the character's affairs and make their life more "interesting" (read: difficult). But there isn't a good way in the core rules to model the "power with a price" concept that you could get with the First Edition oracle - and that's the need we're looking to meet with this class. (But I'm sorry that makes you sad, Wei Ji.)
It's also the case that we still have the data from the overall playtest last year that will guide us in balance decisions once we nail down the specific concept designs. Those concepts are where we need your feedback the most (and we've been hearing you!) but to a large degree the next steps are just implementation. To make a totally ridiculous comparison, it's like saying "we're gonna make a dessert" and then the playtest is trying to figure out whether y'all want chocolate or lemon flavors, cake or pie or mousse, and rich vs. sweet. Once we figure that out, we know how much flour and eggs to use because we've done that part before. To the question of schedule, though, the Advanced Player's Guide will be coming out at Gen Con 2020 (July 30, to be precise). So we do have a publishing schedule we need to meet, but we have time to incorporate what we're hearing now into the final versions of the class.
Hi, everyone! Thanks for stepping back from the heated back-and-forth there and letting it cool down. Y'all are so passionate about this topic, and there are some really interesting perspectives coming to the table. I'm seeing that and we'll be considering them for the final class.
We looked at several options for what happens when you push your curse too far. We really feel that it's more interesting to have this last-ditch desperate option (the "Hail Mary" as we've been calling it in-office) than a hard cap on what you can do, as it really speaks to the unorthodox nature of the oracle's power as double-edged sword. Getting knocked to 0 HP (and thus accruing wounded condition) was an option we talked about, as well as things like doomed or drained. (Admittedly, a block on [focus] spells entirely wasn't something we had considered, and that's also an interesting idea.) We don't have a final mechanic for this, but it's clear that the unconscious option isn't working, so it's right out! Our design conversations are ongoing about what mechanic we want to put in its place.
I'm hearing this. And while I was really surprised to see the demand for mechanical weight to patrons (especially given how very little they originally had in First Edition), it seems like the lore around witches, combined with some of the options introduced later in the game's lifecycle, has really given them a function that y'all want to see borne out in the Second Edition rules set. So that's 100% something we'll be working on for the final class.
The big problem with the current system is that you can go from level 1 to level 20 and not ever have to deal with the curse. the fact you could play the class for 1000 days and never once have to deal with the curse is fundamental design flaw.Personally, I consider this a major boon over the P1E Oracle, but then, I think we already have everything good the P1E Oracle had (spontaneous spellcasting with the divine spell list) in the P2E Divine Sorcerer. The curse was only ever a burden to be mitigated ASAP (my preference was Legalistic), so I think it's a shame any design space is being committed to it here. Tectorman, I've been thinking about this since I read it yesterday, and I'd love to better understand where you're coming from. Are you saying you feel a divine bloodline sorcerer meets the function that a First Edition oracle had and therefore there's no need for a Second Edition oracle at all? Or do you think there's value in a Second Edition oracle, but that a curse function isn't the direction you'd take it? (Brief edit: both are totally valid positions - I just want to make sure I understand your perspective as well as I can.)
Actually, lots of the things First Edition witches could do as hexes are now feats, because they really functioned in the role feats hold in Second Edition. We've tried a few of them here—prehensile hair and claws, wortwitch, swamp witch, witch's bottle, and so forth—to see how that pans out in this edition. (Even more, after first level, your other hexes are also effectively feats, as you gain them via class feats.)
I'm happy to do so as much as I can! I wish I had more time to respond more often, but I'm reading everything y'all have to say. (And the discussion has basically already addressed the question here, but let me know if you want me to peel that back more.)
We want it to be pretty broad, so that it can suit as many stories as possible. Could Baba Yaga be a patron? Heck yes. How about Mephistopheles? Sure! What about a fey queen? Sure! How about a powerful spirit, like one of the former Taldan emperors explored in War for the Crown? Sure! Empyreal lord? Heck yeah! A powerful hag? I could see it. An ancient dragon? Not out of the realm of possibility. A medusa who found an ancient artifact of great power? That could work, too. So, could your buddy witch of the same level also be your patron? It's not at all impossible—but it raises great story questions of what's happening such that they have this power to provide to you. Are they themselves (knowingly or not) at the service of a much more powerful patron using them to get to you? Or is something else going on there? Our hope is that players and GMs will work together to build the thematic or even specific patrons using the flexibility of lessons and patrons, and we want you to have the freedom to do that. But maybe we need to provide more guidance and examples, or establish some known themes/specific patrons to show how that would work.
Take a look at the intersection of magical traditions and essences (Core Rulebook 299-300). The witch in P1 was an arcane caster, so that suggests witches are tapping into primarily mind and matter. They can then access any tradition that uses one of those two essences: arcane, occult, and primal—but not divine. Now, that's how we got where we are. If that's not where it seems like we should go, we can absolutely revisit that, and I've seen some really interesting suggestions as to why we might want to. But as far as "why was this decided?", there you go.
I removed DubiousScholar's duplicate post, but while I'm here, I want to remind everyone that we're all here to make this class better. We might have different perspectives about how to make that happen, and we're all coming from different levels of experience, but we're all working toward that same goal, so let's try to stay supportive and collaborative.
I am actually somewhat confused by this. I do see that Flaming Fussilade is a level 6 focus spell, meaning it would be available at level 11, but, the Greater Revelation is a level 10 feat, am I wrong in assuming that Flaming Fussilade is a Greater Revelation, and that you actually learn it at level 10 (even though it is a 6th level focus spell)? This got called out in another thread; I've put an update about it in the main announcement thread here. TLDR just treat it as a 12th-level feat for now, and we'll fix it in the final version.
The Greater Revelation feat accidentally got dropped in at the wrong level - it's currently a level 10 feat, but you can't start casting 6th-level revelations spells until 11th level. We will fix this in the final version. For now, you'll probably just want to treat it as a 12th-level feat (though you could take it at 10th so you can start slinging at 11th level).
Hi, everyone! I'm seeing this discussion and a similar discussion in another thread, and I want to let you all know that Cackle is something we looked at a lot while building the class, and it's something we're very open to tweaking further based on your feedback. We want to make it a fun ability that works well with the class, and it's clear that we haven't quite hit that mark yet, so we'll definitely be making some changes.
This is definitely something we're thinking about. They might end up being the kinds of feats that turn up in an Adventure Path or a Lost Omens product rather than the core class, but this is kind of a "test balloon" to see whether there's interest or utility to it.
Oops. We shifted levels of the various focus spells around about one million times, and I think this feat didn't get updated to match the most recent scale. For now, you'd probably just want to wait until 12th level to take the feat (or take it at 10th so you can start slinging at 11th level?) - not ideal, but not intentional and we'll get it fixed.
It would be interesting to hear from the developers on why they didn't include divine witches in the play test, and why they included arcane witches. In First Edition, witches were arcane casters and had access to a number of the spells that are now on the arcane list. They're Int-based casters who use study and logic and rationality to manipulate their power. Arcane doesn't seem out of line for that. (Now maybe we'll see in the feedback and playtest data that it's not speaking to anyone - that's part of why we do this.) The thought on excluding the divine tradition is that if a patron entity is directly granting you divine spellcasting power, you're basically a cleric. If you have a deific or otherwise divine patron, it's because they're playing it under the table (Why? That's between you and your GM). Now that doesnt' mean that we might introduce some funky lessons down the road that might let you tap into the divine list (a patron who has themselves managed to tap into divine power and is passing it out to pose as a deity?), but that's an exception to the broader witch concept, and for this playtest and this book, we need to nail down the broad basics first. I hope that helps you see where we're coming from!
The stupefied condition does come with a risk of spell failure, as you're pushing yourself so hard into the combat mindset that casting spells becomes difficult (sort of along the same lines as barbarians not being able to concentrate while Raging). Is that the right balance? That's what we're trying to find out through the playtest, so if you're able to run a higher-level battle oracle through a few encounters and let us know how it works out, we'd love to hear about it!
Search Posts
So, I was grappled by two stirges. My rogue had a crappy CMB of 1 and CMD of 13. Firstly, we ruled that I couldn't attack the stirges with a dagger one-handed without first making an opposed grapple check. To me, the rules suggest that you can unless you are actively trying to get out of the grapple in which case you then make an opposed roll. I didn't want to oppose the grapple, I just wanted to stab it. Secondly, the stirge was using its considerable CMB of +11 (a racial bonus given in subsequent rounds once the grapple had been established) and a further +5 from the normal rules on grappling (pg 200 Core Rulebook), again, given if the victim couldn't break the initial grapple. So, +16. But, it goes on to say on pg 201 that the victim can attempt to break a grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check, DC equal to attackers CMD (in this case, 9). Is it just me or does this sound totally contradictory? Can the stirge keep opposing me at +16 since it managed to grapple me in the first instance which would mean it uses its CMB vs my CMB or do I just beat its CMD of 9 and then stab at it? Ideas please. I really feel this rule should be clearer.
Some time ago there was discussion about some very helpful ppl who were constructing websites that automate things like NPC's, treasure and advance monsters. Would any of you guys happen to remember or have the links to any of those sites. I have since changed jobs so don't have them shortcutted anymore - not very orgabnisd of me! Thanks all.
For those who wanted an update on what happened in our game here it is. Just to summarize, we were investigating a goblin market where the murder of one particular goblin was carried out by our trusty paladin. What happened next was...... We basically all left town. Except the paladin. The market mobilised to see what the commotion was all about. I guess if you're gonne kill someone you gotta do it quietly. Mal, the paladin, made a run for the horses. That's as far as he got before he was swamped by gobbies trying to grapple, trip, bite and generally behave in an anti-social manner. The next part was way cool. Mal continued to cut the horses free whereby they all ran away. Then he simply thwarted most attempts to grapple and trip, and continued to drag the wailing mini-horde through the viallge while any green-skin within earshot attempted to climb on wagons, each other etc to have a go. It was like WWF (or whatever) with gobbies jumping all over Mal, bashing him with pots, pans and anything else they could find. Eventually they got him down with subdual damage and hung him. Still, it was fun seeing how far Mal got with approx 15 midgets trying to hold him down. The funniest bit was Mal continually warning them that if they continued they would be in real trouble. Defiance is beatiful. Anyhoo, now we're surveying the sewers for the city. It was a very productive session.
You're in a Goblin market. Tents and stalls line the streets, filled with everything from leatherwork to pots and pans. Sure, the goblin traders here drive a hard bargain, but they haven't tried to mislead, attack, or do anything ubtoward to you or your party. Question; Is it ok for the Lawful Good paladin to put his axe through one Goblin's head (selling potions etc) and take its' stuff on the basis that they are vermin? Background; Our party was sent to investigate a goblin market on the King's road that had sprung up near a ruined bridge. Some human travellers had gone missing nearby. The goblins built a new bridge, allegedly charging a toll. We weren't charged a toll by them and two of us left the market without harrassment. Although the bridge looks like it was destroyed by tools, there is no proof that the gobbies did it......yet. So, to the question.
I'm interested in getting other ppls ideas for mapping software/techniques here and hearing about experiences with them. I've been using mainly the Pro Fantasy stuff but I know there are alot of others out there. I'm not talking about the really simple hex grid style maps, I mean the high quality stuff that is available. For example, has anyone used a cosmographer or soemthing really cool to design cities that stands out. Secondly, I'm thinking of putting up a website devoted to maps. What level of interest is out there? Thanks guys/gals.
I, like many people, miss Dungeon Mag. In my view, print copy is superior to digital for reading adventures etc. For those of you who regularly use Kobold Quarterly, how does it rate against Dungeon Mag? Info here will go a long way to me becoming a KQ customer in an effort to satisfy my hard copy tendencies. Thanks guys.
Now, making magic items requires the creator to expend XP. I'm sure I read in rule/splat book somewhere that the creator can use someone elses XP in the process. Mt PC is an 'Artificer' so I have all the item creation feats sown up but I don't like being behind the rest of the party in XP all the time from making items for them. Has anyone else come across this piece of information or did I dream it? |
