Fleshcrafted Drow

Faenor's page

Organized Play Member. 107 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 12 Organized Play characters.

After my question on interaction between Morph and Polymorph effects, similar question now but between Dragon Claws and Monk Stances.

Dragon Claws is a morph effect that gives claws dealing 1d4 damage plus 1d6 energy damage (that scales up to 3d6 at 9th). Monk stances e.g. Tiger stance allows you to make claws attack that deal 1d8 slashing damage; are in the brawling group; and have the agile, finesse, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.

Let's imagine you used you focus spell to cast dragon claws, then with your next action you enter the Tiger stance, then strike.

How much damage do you do?

1. 1d8 slashing (dragon claws has no effect)
2. 1d4 slashing + 1d6 energy (stance has no effect)
3. 1d8 slashing + 1d6 energy (stance overwrites the damage of the claws but you keep the energy damage)

The last one seems reasonable to me and I don't see anything in the rules that says one way or the other.


Dragon Claws have the Morph trait and gives you finesse claws that deal 1d4 damage plus 1d6 energy that scales.

Bestial Mutagen has the Polymorph trait gives you a jaw and claws attacks, an item bonus, and scaling damage dice.

morph wrote:

Effects that slightly alter a creature’s form have the morph trait. Any Strikes specifically granted by a morph effect are magical. You can be affected by multiple morph spells at once, but if you morph the same body part more than once, the second morph effect attempts to counteract the first (in the same manner as two polymorph effects, described in that trait).

Your morph effects might also end if you are polymorphed and the polymorph effect invalidates or overrides your morph effect. The GM determines which morph effects can be used together and which can’t.

You can both be affected by Dragon Claws and Bestial Mutagen, but what happens to the claws?

What do you get?
1. Only the effect of the last feature you used
2. A mix of effects depending on what you last used e.g. mutagen + Dragon claws you get 1d4 damage claws + energy damage + item bonus
3. Mutagen damages dice and item bonus + additional energy damage dice.

This question is relevant for all "natural" attacks builds e.g. Animal Instinct Barbarian but particularly for Mutagenist Alchemists.

One of the benefits of the Alchemist is that you can craft poisons for free (and poisons are so much better than in PF1 btw). With the Powerful Alchemy feat, you can make poisons scale to your class DC which is really great, and by taking the Potent Poisoner feat, you can add 4 to that DC! Unfortunately Alchemists don't have any way to apply poisons quickly to their weapons, but you could do that in advance. But that's not all, Bestial Mutagen gives you bite and claws but unfortunately it looks like you can't apply poison to your claws.

CRB p.550 wrote:
Injury: An injury poison is activated by applying it to a weapon, and it affects the target of the frst Strike made using the poisoned weapon.

Injury poisons can only be applied to weapons.

CRB p. 278 wrote:
However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifcally say so.

(typo on specifcally btw)

And unarmed attacks are not weapons. I can understand why you couldn't apply injury poison to your fists, but it seems counter intuitive that you couldn't apply poison to your claws (I'm sure there are monsters somewhere that have poisoned claws, or used to).

That seems to be another bummer for the Mutagenist Alchemist who can't benefit themselves of around one quarter of the alchemical items they can craft :(

What do you think? Is that an oversight? Is poison not considered an ability therefore we should be able to apply poisons to claws?

mutagenist field discovery wrote:
You can gain the benefit of any mutagen, even if it wasn’t specifically brewed for you.

That implies that mutagen needs to be brewed for a specific person in general, can't craft mutagen in the morning and gives to anyone. However that restrictions only surfaces in the mutagenist field discovery, it seems weird that there is no rule somewhere else saying that. Is it an oversight? There was a restriction clearly spelled out in the playtest but not anymore in the final version. Did they just forget to remove this now obsolete clause from the field discovery?

From the mutagen section (p. 546):

Typically, only alchemists have the expertise to craft mutagens

That implies that if you aren't an alchemist, you can't take the Alchemical Crafting feat to craft mutagens, but you could craft any other alchemical item?

The "typically" part is a bit vague, if they wanted this restriction, why not just saying "only alchemists have the expertise to craft mutagens"?

Precise Debilitation wrote:

You carefully aim and gracefully deliver your debilitations. Add the following debilitations to the list you can choose from when you use Debilitating Strike.

Debilitation The target takes an additional 2d6 precision damage from your attacks.
Debilitation The target becomes flat-footed.

Would the precision damage only triggers on subsequent attacks or on that attack as well? Would that stack with sneak attack?

Rage wrote:
You can’t use actions with the concentrate trait unless they also have the rage trait. You can Seek while raging.

Cast a Spell doesn't have the concentrate spell (only one spell seems to have this trait actually), so does that mean a barbarian who took a spellcasting dedication can cast spells during the rage without any issue?

Weapon Specialization wrote:
Your rage helps you hit harder. You deal an additional 2 damage with weapons and unarmed attacks in which you have expert proficiency. This damage increases to 3 if you’re a master, and 4 if you’re legendary. You gain your instinct’s specialization ability.

Flavor text says it's your rage that helps you hit harder, but the rest seems to imply you get that all the time. It doesn't matter that much I guess as you don't seem to be too limited for raging as before so should be able to rage pretty much all the time unless you're fatigued.

I've bought the hardcover CRB but it hasn't arrived yet. Am I supposed to get the pdf for free as part of this purchase or do I have to buy it separately?
At the moment, I don't see the pdf in my digital content...

So the Lycanthropy curse from Horror Realms makes it that you cannot speak during combat but it doesn't prevent spellcasting:

Lycanthropy Curse wrote:
This ability works similarly to the tongues curse, but whenever you are in combat, you cannot speak at all. This does not interfere with spellcasting but does apply to spells that are language dependent.

The Lunar mystery's Form of the Beast revelation allows you to shapeshift as beast shape spells so it doesn't qualify for Nature Spell, and is therefore not great.

Would the Lycanthropy curse, which would be hugely thematic, allows you to cast spells while shifted?

I am not interested in melee buffs e.g. CLW, there have been many discussions about that, but about offensive ranged touch spells. Let's say that using the Reach Spell metamagic, you increase the range of Scorching Ray from close to medium, are you still required to make a ranged touch attack?


Reach Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells go farther than normal.

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long.

Level Increase: Special. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher.

Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.

Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.


Scorching Ray

School evocation [fire]; Level adept 2, arcanist 2, bloodrager 2, magus 2, sorcerer 2, wizard 2
Casting: Casting Time 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: one or more rays
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resistance: yes

You blast your enemies with a searing beam of fire. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of fire damage. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously.

The feat says that you increase the range to a higher category, scorching ray is close so it becomes medium, but it never says that you don't need to make a touch attack anymore. On the other hand it explicitly spells out that the order is touch, close, medium, and long which could imply that you don't need to make a touch attach anymore if you increase the range, but scorching ray range is already "close" (as all ranged touch spells afaik). The fact that it specifically calls out that a melee touch becomes a range touch seems to support that you don't need an attack anymore if I go from range touch to medium.

So if I cast scorching ray with reach metamagic feat as a +1 spell slot, does
1. it becomes a medium range spell but range touch attacks are still required for each ray as per the spell description?
2. it becomes a medium range spell which does not require a range touch attack anymore, each ray hits automatically?

Sorry if that's obvious, many people seem to assume #2 from what I read, but I can't really find anything that support that when I read the feat and the spell descriptions.

It's so slow to download Starfinder from Paizo website, it's a shame. Chrome is saying it will take 3-4 hours left for a 143MB file...

I downloaded a similar (~160MB) from Jetbrains in 2 minutes on the same connection so the issue is with Paizo site.