I've been poking around Pathbuilder to get a feel for what 16th level would be like. It looks like I'd have to accept that Eben would turn into a more standard buffer/full caster and lose out on his arrow gish-iness. One the one hand, that's unfortunate because I was starting to feel like I'd finally gotten him to the point where he can actually contribute meaningfully in a fight; on the other hand, this last fight I never fired a shot and just relied on nonstop spell use, so maybe it was foreshadowing. :-) Option 4 sounds appealing, but I have absolutely no desire to bring on an entirely new GM, and assigning a co-GM, while it wounds feasible i practice, I think does have the potential drawback of slowing down the game even more, since now we'd be relying on multiple people to keep things rolling. That said, if we do go that route, and we are all fine with thinning the player/gm separation walls, I'd be happy to lend a hand with re-statting encounters, in case we wanted to spread it around and not dump it all on Rynjin's shoulders. So, with all that in mind, I'd rate the options as follows: Option 1- 3/10. While I want to see the game through, narrative based taking away the 'rules' element feels like a letdown. I mean, how much fun will the game be if we don't have the opportunity to roll badly and have Astraden wind up dying mid-combat or Farrukh get eaten by every third monster? It's a feasible backup option if none of the other ones work. Option 2- 6/10. Don't like PF2. Don't expect to be a convert to the glory of PF2 even if we switch over. BUT, it would still be at least modestly comfortable ground. Option 3- 1/10. While I don't relish learning a new game system at all, I think having the GM have to learn a completely new system alongside of me just because I don't like PF2 is a terrible idea. Option 4- 5/10. Weirdly I find myself less drawn to the option of sticking with PF1 with this caveat than I am opposed to transferring to 2E. It still would be a more acceptable transition than 1 or 3, but surprisingly my gut says I'd be more content with a conversion to second edition.
Kobold Catgirl wrote: The least radical option would probably be Pathfinder Second Edition (which I've gotten pretty comfortable with), but I know from our Discord talks that it is not everyone's favorite system around here. :::redundant raising of hand::: Yeah, that'sa me. I don't have a better idea for the moment, but I'll follow along and see how the conversation goes. Anyway, as far as leveling and looting, I just discovered earlier today that Eben had already claimed a +2 rin of protection from Marka all the way back in the Spire and I never got around to updating my character sheet. So, obviously, we'll have to retcon every fight I've been involved in since then and recalculate based on what my AC actually should have been... Oh, fine, I'll just update my sheet now and use the new results moving forwards, you bunch of handwavers. Actually, I think I'll still claim Zyrxog's ring for being a better trophy of a defeated enemy and toss Marka's back in the pile. Unless anyone objects, I'll also take at least temporary possession of Malahazar's amulet of natural armor +1 and Cretan's belt of giant strength +2. Genuinely surprised I hadn't claimed/bought anything along those lines yet. New level-up fun to come.
Deaths Adorable Apprentice wrote:
Okay, no problem, if I need to multiclass I'll do it the old fashioned way. One other question: so the character I'm thinking of is another local lumberjack (possibly laid off from the consortium and thus in need of another means of income, so, hey, adventuring sounds nice...). I'm planning a fighter who uses axes as his main weapon, and the trait Bellis Axe Master appealed to me. Only problem is that it's regional to Bellis (thus the name). Since Falcon's Hollow is another lumberjacky region in Andoran, would it be okay to waive the super specific regional requirement, and just call it 'Darkmoon Vale Axe Master' or something like that instead?
DeathQuaker wrote: It's complicated. I bought the Red Box in 1987 and in 7th grade asked the local gaming group at my school if I could play with them, but they said no, with the reason given being, and I quote, "Because you're a girl." Nonetheless I bought AD&D 2nd Ed later and made up my own game worlds and characters using the rules, but initially I never had anyone to play with. (I did play the Gold Box video games which is how I first became familiar with the Forgotten Realms.) We should have met as 80's teenagers. 14-year old me was dis-invited from my gaming group because I insisted we should include girls. (I don't think there were any prospective lady gamers that actually wanted in, my sin was merely broaching the idea that there was an untapped audience, and maybe this could be a solution to the dwindling numbers we were experiencing as people moved or graduated...?) I likewise found solace in the Gold Box games. Anyway, classic Red Box was also my gateway drug. Present for Christmas '83, with a somewhat convoluted origin. It had a label on it indicating it was a gift from my older brother, but he was intensely anti-materialistic that year and actually had opted out of giving or recieving christmas presents, and my parents thought it would be embarrassing if he didn't give anyone in the family a gift, so they bought presents by proxy for him. He was not pleased, as I recall.
I'll be exiting too, then, albeit in less dramatic fashion. Frankly I haven't enjoyed things so far- I clearly have a different playstyle than the GM / some of the other players, and I feel it's making for a dysfunctional group, so best to exit and let the group adjust, re-recruit, if desired, and enjoy the game as they will. I might suggest, though, that if Alexandria's player wishes to continue, you retcon things so that Arrock or Zephira were the one to get abducted and the other character left to try and rescue them. The benefit of this would be that it writes out two characters that are leaving and doesn't penalize a third character for not being able to evade a CR 9 monster's attack at 2nd level and then depend on the whims of the other players whether or not to be rescued.
Storm Dragon wrote:
And then there's the fact that any elf can just spontaneously *POOF* into a drow by thinking naughty thoughts.
Zephira the Sylph wrote:
I was talking about things like Arrock's '+2 to Perception to avoid surprise or notice invisible or ethereal' trait based modifiers. Other people might have stuff that gives them better perception undergound, etc. Things that are mentioned in the character heading, but if a GM is pulling the info from different place, could get overlooked.
Oceanshieldwolf wrote: Also handy that if your tressym dies you can keep its tongue as an ingredient for poison cures. Unless it burns in a horrible, horrible fire. Or is hit by acid. Or toasted by electricity. Or decapitated and the killer takes the head. Still, fun pet! That's a very... pragmatic approach to pet ownership.
Rissa Farseer wrote: YES, a tressym! ...boo, the FR book says I have to wait until 5th level. But I always thought it was a jerk move to abandon your faithful familiar, who is utterly devoted to you and has followed you into mortal peril, just because something new and shiny comes along. :( I was going to try and sidestep the issue by starting with a tressym, but according to RAW that won't work. What to do, what to do... You could either view it as your familiar 'levels up' into its true form (I had a crow that turned into a nosi psychopomp once, which admittedly was easy enough to justify.) Maybe have a normal cat that suddenly grows wings? Or you could just... not have a familiar for a level, take Improved when you get to 5th, and get your flying feline in one fell swoop.
DeathQuaker wrote: Eh since everyone's talking about character appearance I did up Sophronia in Heroforge and added the link in my Appearance section of my character sheet. Dammit, I hadn't even thought of this as an option and now I just wasted hours on one. Fine, here's Leuc.
Oh, I'm happy to see this one moving forward- I came across the Interest thread late in its run, too late, really, to add to the 'I'm interested' chorus, so just sat and waited. And patience was rewarded! I have a character idea brewing, I'll try and et him statted up for submission in the next day or two.
Okay, here's Luke as semifinalized. The only things you have to do when you copy him into your profile is select a cantip to use with minor magic (I filled it in with resize shadow to fit your theme, but your call, of course) and replace Craft (crochet) with something you'd actually want from the Background Skill options. Luke: Luke Slade
Human unchained rogue 2 (Pathfinder Unchained 20) N Medium humanoid (human) Init +6; Senses Perception +5, Darkvision 70 feet -------------------- Defense -------------------- AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 10 (+4 Dex) hp 20 (2d8+6) Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +0 Defensive Abilities evasion -------------------- Offense -------------------- Speed 30 ft. Melee sickle +1 (1d6) Ranged hand crossbow +5 (1d4/19-20) Special Attacks sneak attack (unchained) +1d6 Rogue (Unchained) Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +0) At will—resize shadow 2/day— darkness 1/day— deeper darkness -------------------- Statistics -------------------- Str 10, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 7 Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 15 Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Expertise, Combat Stamina, Deadly Aim, Extra Rogue Talent, Extra Rogue Talent, Power Attack, Two-weapon Fighting Traits hidden hand, inspired, reactionary Flaw Umbral Unmasking Skills Acrobatics +9, Climb +5, Craft (crochet), Disable Device +8, Escape Artist +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Perception +5, Sleight of Hand +9 (+10 to conceal light weapons), Stealth +9, Survival +2 Languages Common, Orc SQ agile maneuvers, combat expertise, deadly aim, expanded sight, finesse weapon attack attribute, point-blank shot, power attack, rogue talent (minor magic), two-weapon fighting Combat Gear dimorphodon poison Other Gear spidersilk bodysuit, hand crossbow, sickle, 44 gp -------------------- Special Abilities -------------------- Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB Agile Maneuvers [Combat Trick] For a Combat Maneuver, treat self as size category larger for each 2 Stamina spent (up to Dex bonus) Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack. Combat Expertise [Combat Trick] Ignore penalty from Combat Expertise for stamina spent. Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage. Deadly Aim [Combat Trick] 4 stamina points reduce penalty from Deadly Aim by 1. Dimdweller Whenever characters with this trait benefit from concealment or full concealment due to darkness or dim light, they gain a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth checks. Humans can take this trait in place of the skilled trait, also gaining darkvision to a range of 60 feet. Expanded Sight (Su) At 1st level, a shadow walker gains darkvision with a range of 30 feet. If she already has darkvision, the range of her darkvision increases by 10 feet. When the shadow walker reaches 3rd level, and every 2 rogue levels thereafter, the range of her darkvision increases by 10 feet. Also at 3rd level, the shadow walker loses the light sensitivity weakness, if she has it. If she has light blindness, she instead treats it as light sensitivity. This ability replaces trapfinding. Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead. Finesse Weapon Attack Attribute Finesse weapons use on attack rolls. Minor Magic (??, At will) (Sp) Gain the chosen cantrip as a spell-like ability. Gloom Magic A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast darkness twice each day as a spell-like ability. The darkness created by this ability does not impair the rogue’s vision. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue’s level. Greater Gloom Magic A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast deeper darkness once each day as a spell-like ability. The darkness created by this ability does not impair the rogue’s vision. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue’s level. Point-Blank Shot [Combat Trick] Up to 6 stamina points to increase Point-Blank range by 5 ft per stamina spent. Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage. Power Attack [Combat Trick] 2 stamina points to use Power Attack only until end of turn, instead of the start of the next turn. Sneak Attack (Unchained) +1d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed. Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat Trick] Reduce two-weapon fighting penalty for primary hand by 1 for every 2 stamina spent. Umbral Unmasking [Flaw] You cast no shadow whatsoever, or the shadow you do have is monstrous. Under normal lighted conditions, this is not hard to observe—but uncommon to notice. Creatures that succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom check notice it plainly (an additional Perception check may be required based on environmental conditions). This telltale sign of wickedness cannot be concealed by misdirection, nondetection, or illusions, except those that also affect shadows (such as invisibility). Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at https://www.wolflair.com
Sebecloki wrote:
You're only one language short, did you want orc or goblin? Or else see option #2 in the background skills section below. With 4 points to spend on your skills, you can max out two of those three, or you can spread them around unevenly. If you want to max, which two were the priority? And then the last 2 points to spend are on background skills, so you can max one out. Or, if you still want both Orc and Goblin, you could put one point in Linguistics and one point in something else. (Maybe Luke secretly loves to crochet when he's not poisoning people.)
Sebecloki- here's a draft. Just a few things that need noting:
You seem to be one feat over what a 2nd level human rogue would have, unless I'm missing something that would add it in. Minus the bonus EITR and Combat Stamina feats, it should be two feats. Reactionary and Hidden Hand are both combat traits, so technically it would be one or the other. Good news- you're actually significantly UNDER spent on your skills! Per HeroLab, you have another 4 regular skill points and 2 background skill points to spend. Minor Magic needs a spell associated with it. Also, you get another starting langue because you're so darn smart. I can put it through HL again if you want to give me corrections, or alternately you can just take the formatting as a template and adjust it yourself. Luke: Luke Slade Human unchained rogue 2 (Pathfinder Unchained 20) N Medium humanoid (human) Init +6; Senses Perception +5, Darkvision 70 feet -------------------- Defense -------------------- AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 10 (+4 Dex) hp 20 (2d8+6) Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +0 Defensive Abilities evasion -------------------- Offense -------------------- Speed 30 ft. Melee sickle +1 (1d6) Ranged hand crossbow +5 (1d4/19-20) Special Attacks sneak attack (unchained) +1d6 Rogue (Unchained) Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +0) At will—minor magic (spell needed) 2/day— darkness 1/day— deeper darkness -------------------- Statistics -------------------- Str 10, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 7 Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 15 Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Expertise, Combat Stamina, Deadly Aim, Extra Rogue Talent, Extra Rogue Talent, Power Attack, Two-weapon Fighting Traits hidden hand, inspired, reactionary Flaw Umbral Unmasking Skills Acrobatics +9, Disable Device +8, Escape Artist +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Perception +5, Sleight of Hand +9 (+10 to conceal light weapons), Stealth +9 ?? ?? ?? Languages Common SQ agile maneuvers, combat expertise, deadly aim, expanded sight, finesse weapon attack attribute, point-blank shot, power attack, rogue talent (minor magic), two-weapon fighting Combat Gear dimorphodon poison Other Gear spidersilk bodysuit, hand crossbow, sickle, 44 gp -------------------- Special Abilities -------------------- Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB Agile Maneuvers [Combat Trick] For a Combat Maneuver, treat self as size category larger for each 2 Stamina spent (up to Dex bonus) Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack. Combat Expertise [Combat Trick] Ignore penalty from Combat Expertise for stamina spent. Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage. Deadly Aim [Combat Trick] 4 stamina points reduce penalty from Deadly Aim by 1. Dimdweller Whenever characters with this trait benefit from concealment or full concealment due to darkness or dim light, they gain a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth checks. Humans can take this trait in place of the skilled trait, also gaining darkvision to a range of 60 feet. Expanded Sight (Su) At 1st level, a shadow walker gains darkvision with a range of 30 feet. If she already has darkvision, the range of her darkvision increases by 10 feet. When the shadow walker reaches 3rd level, and every 2 rogue levels thereafter, the range of her darkvision increases by 10 feet. Also at 3rd level, the shadow walker loses the light sensitivity weakness, if she has it. If she has light blindness, she instead treats it as light sensitivity. This ability replaces trapfinding. Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead. Finesse Weapon Attack Attribute Finesse weapons use on attack rolls. Minor Magic (??, At will) (Sp) Gain the chosen cantrip as a spell-like ability. Gloom Magic A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast darkness twice each day as a spell-like ability. The darkness created by this ability does not impair the rogue’s vision. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue’s level. Greater Gloom Magic A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast deeper darkness once each day as a spell-like ability. The darkness created by this ability does not impair the rogue’s vision. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue’s level. Point-Blank Shot [Combat Trick] Up to 6 stamina points to increase Point-Blank range by 5 ft per stamina spent. Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage. Power Attack [Combat Trick] 2 stamina points to use Power Attack only until end of turn, instead of the start of the next turn. Sneak Attack (Unchained) +1d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed. Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat Trick] Reduce two-weapon fighting penalty for primary hand by 1 for every 2 stamina spent. Umbral Unmasking [Flaw] You cast no shadow whatsoever, or the shadow you do have is monstrous. Under normal lighted conditions, this is not hard to observe—but uncommon to notice. Creatures that succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom check notice it plainly (an additional Perception check may be required based on environmental conditions). This telltale sign of wickedness cannot be concealed by misdirection, nondetection, or illusions, except those that also affect shadows (such as invisibility). Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at https://www.wolflair.com
roll4initiative wrote:
I think two bards is fine, speaking as bard #2. Arcane Duelist plays very different from most archetypes, and if bard #1 is using Inspire Courage, that would leave room for bard #2 to use Bladethirst.
After poking and prodding a bit, I'd like to submit the following for consideration. I present: Arrock, the non-angsty half-elf melee bard! I'm pretty sure this is less than an optimal build and might very well leave me gimped over time, but he's a fun semi-representation of an old favorite character who saw use in a number of Dungeon 1st and 2nd edition adventures. Personality wise, he's the son of a minor elven noble and the adventuring wizard that stole his heart. The community is positioned fairly close to human lands, so there was less prejudice against a halfbreed than the stereotype might indicate, and Arrock was just such a charmer of a kid that he mostly avoided even the leftover bits and snarky comments from old, crusty elven purist types. He grew up embracing both halves of his heritage and, in fact, was a good bridge between communities. Accordingly he learned a lot of courtly manners, and also, given his mother's inclination to magic and his training elven swordplay, became a fair arcane swordsman. Personality wise- he'd led a life of comfort, that leaves him a bit on the spoiled and pampered side now, and has a slight tendency to come off as a snob, but is so goshdarn charming and witty that he manages to get away with it. As a result of a near-drowning in his childhood and being magically pulled back from the brink of death, he does have an oddly quirky connection to the afterlife. 'I see dead people' comes into play, sometimes. He's actually quite cheerful about that, because the dead know such interesting things, if you can get them to talk a little. If he seems like an interesting possibility, I'll go ahead and make a full posting profile for him. Even if I don't get in this one, he'd be fun to have around. hit points: 8 + 2 + 2 + 1d4 + 4 ⇒ 8 + 2 + 2 + (2) + 4 = 18 Arrock Ghosteye: Half-elf bard (arcane duelist) 2/magus* (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 80) NG Medium humanoid (elf, human) Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +7 (+9 vs. surprise and to detect invisible or incorporeal creatures) -------------------- Defense -------------------- AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield) hp 18 (2d8+4) Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +3; +2 vs. enchantments Immune sleep -------------------- Offense -------------------- Speed 30 ft. Melee mwk bastard sword +6 (1d10+4/19-20) or whip +5 (1d3+4 nonlethal) Ranged composite shortbow +3 (1d6+3/×3) Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (15 ft. with whip) Special Attacks bardic performance 8 rounds/day (distraction, fascinate [DC 13], inspire courage +1, rallying cry) Bard (Arcane Duelist) Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +4) 1st (3/day)—blurred movement[ACG], saving finale[APG] (DC 13), touch of gracelessness[APG] (DC 13) 0 (at will)—dancing lights, daze (DC 12), detect magic, read magic, spark[APG] (DC 12) -------------------- Statistics -------------------- Str 18, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 14 Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 17 Feats Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Combat Stamina, Deadly Aim, Great Fortitude, Power Attack Traits elven reflexes, resilient, spirit sense Drawback vain Skills Acrobatics +5, Bluff +7 (+5 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Climb +7, Diplomacy +7 (+5 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disguise +2 (+0 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Intimidate +2 (+0 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Perception +7 (+9 vs. surprise and to detect invisible or incorporeal creatures), Perform (wind instruments) +7 (+5 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Sense Motive +5, Use Magic Device +7 (+5 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception Languages Common, Draconic, Elven SQ agile maneuvers, arcane strike, combat expertise, deadly aim, elf blood, finesse weapon attack attribute, point-blank shot, power attack, vain Other Gear mwk chain shirt, buckler, arrows (20), composite shortbow (+3 Str), mwk bastard sword, whip, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), masterwork backpack[APG], mirror, pot, soap, spell component pouch, Tin Whistle, trail rations (5), waterskin, 23 gp, 1 sp
Merrick Talbar wrote: @Sujani, you mentioned Monk and piqued my interest. I can save you a feat; you have Power Attack but EitR gives you Risky Strike for free. Power Attack is one of the free feats that HeroLab plugged in with the World is Square rules turned on, so I haven't 'spent' anything on it. If there's a discontinuity between the Herolab implementation of EitR and the one the game will actually use, I'll poke and prod until things are accurate. @Rodrigo: It really is a hard choice between dipping Brawler and Monk; even a low level use of Martial Flexibility gives a lot of options for a character working around combat style feats, but the multiple styles at once that Master of Many Styles gets is also super tempting. The thing is, he wouldn't need to know a TON of styles; I don't see him doing unarmed strike much, so it's just the limited subset of styles that would work well with a knife fighter that I'd need to worry about. I'd probably play it by ear and see how he plays as I level up before making any choices.
Korrault has not participated in any online campaigns. |