Friendly Fighter

Corwin Illum's page

323 posts. Organized Play character for Falkos.


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Grand Lodge

Here is how i might handle it. My players had to choose sources. I think i will prevent the source from being used again by that player if the class from that source dies and doesn't come back.

Except the CRB, but no one has chosen a core crb class yet. In that case they can't make the same CRB class.

Grand Lodge

My first time GMing a home game. Due to circumstances, one of my players died. Level 3. To make matters more interesting, they have tools at their disposal to resurrect said character in the form of a scroll of resurrection.

The player would rather make a new PC and I'm not particularly sure what i should do. Particularly since one comment was it would save 10000g due to not "wasting" the scroll. But that is why the resource is there, to be used in an emergency.

If you aren't having fun with a character or something isn't working out. I'm all for not forcing a character on someone, but shouldn't there be a consequence for death?

Grand Lodge

At my table, Freedom of movement would negate the entangle effect, but not the "trapped in ice" part.

Expect variation from person to person.

Grand Lodge

lemeres wrote:
Scythia wrote:
I think the rule against it is that studded leather isn't composed of enough metal for the mithral bonus to apply. Only the darkleaf bonus would apply.

Too little metal to be made ofmithral, too much metal for druids to use.

Oh studded, will you ever find your place?

I use it when I want armor for animal companions, masterwork studded leather.

Grand Lodge

quicken spell takes a slot 4 levels higher. It is good, but you can't make use of it until level 10.

If you want to be in the thick of combat, which the use of combat casting and arcane strike suggest, then toughness could also be a good choice. Perhaps might want to include dodge as well. If using traits, highly consider magical knack to offset the casting level loss of Dragon Disciple.

If you were to get another bloodline, Abyssal actually suits you well. Extra uses of claws and with improved eldrich heritage you can get the strength bonus, which stacks with strength bonus of Dragon Disciple.

Grand Lodge

What about a Paladin? You can team up in melee with your monk friend, you can heal, you can restore stat damage with lesser restoration spells. At level 5, you will almost certainly want to get the mount option and have the animal to help out.

Another interesting option might be bard, who kind of bridges the gap between arcane and divine. You just have to build it to be combat effective. either with a high dex and be an archer, or high strength to melee with your monk friend.

Grand Lodge

spectrevk wrote:
Felyndiira wrote:

One thing to do if you're getting bored: fill your slots with a bunch of Silent Image spells, and figure out ways to solve problems with just that or Ghost Sound.

Otherwise, what is it that you are looking for in a character? It's true that a first level wizard doesn't have much versatility yet, but it's still probably the most versatile class that you can find even at level 1. If just rolling attack and damage dice is getting boring to you, try branching out into more fun spells like Charm Person or Illusions.

It's a tough situation because much of what you encounter in Godsmouth Heresy is largely immune to things like Charm Person.

Jason Robbs wrote:
18 strength half-orc transmuter wizard with a falchion. Either go for eldritch knight to stay competitive in melee or stay pure wizard and transition into buffing/control at higher levels. Its fun because you get to use those cool wizard polymorph spells. Also the confused looks from everyone else at the table makes it worthwhile.
I like this idea! I was just over here sketching out something similar (dual-dagger, bonded weapon[dagger], etc) but I ran up against the question of whether you can still deliver magical touch attacks if you've got knives in both hands (or in your case, both hands are on a falchion).

You sure can deliver a melee touch attack with a falchion. You can hold the falchion in one hand while you deliver the touch attack with the other, then regrip the falchion. Otherwise how would a wizard ever be able to cast a spell with a staff and still have a free hand? As long as you don't abuse release/regrib rules, you'll be fine. I think there is a FAQ on it somewhere. Dual wielding daggers might be more cumbersome and more of a grey area.

A Fighter 1/Wizard 5(6?)/EK x might be a good choice for you, probably of transmutation school. I kind of like the idea of the 6th level of wizard. Doesn't hurt BAB and gives you a good save boost all around.

Grand Lodge

The archetype Sleuth for the Investigator could make a very good catfolk investigator, and might be what you are more imagining anyway, rather then the alchemical side.

Go with higher dex, can be a good face with charisma and your social skills, Sleuth wants charisma anyway. Use a finnese weapon.

Off the top of my head, a 20 point buy might look something like:

str 11
dex 18 (16+2)
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 8 (10-2)
Cha 16 (14+2)

Grand Lodge

If it were me, I would get haste via boots. My vote for a third level spell would be Force Hook Charge, or Vampiric Touch. Though I think the first is awesome for flavor and doing cool things.

Spell combat force hook charge, use your boots to haste you up and you will be flying around the battlefield full attacking.

Grand Lodge

I agree, I think 2 levels of snakebite striker brawler would be amazingly good for your build. Then continue with rogue. Drop some int, put perhaps in Wisdom.

Gives you your sneak attack, unarmed strike, flurry with your unarmed, and a bonus feat. Allows you to ignore int prerequisite for combat expertise.

Grand Lodge

An underwater crossbow is from the Advanced Race Guide


An underwater crossbow functions like its normal counterpart above water, and can be used underwater. When fired underwater, the crossbow has a range increment of 20 feet. Anyone proficient with a normal crossbow can use an underwater crossbow.

I'd focus on the Light Crossbow (the underwater one if allowed). Lower levels I would probably carry around a Heavy Repeating, but you are already past that point. The Double Crossbow from the APG could be fun. But would require a much different mindset and build then I would want a younger kid to play that wants to just kill things. Would probably need to use things like Gravity Bow, Dead Shot or Vital Strike. The Crossbowman Fighter could also be very good with it.

The minotaur Double Crossbow is... interesting and RAW the most powerful by far. Lacks the wording about reloading. (Though both are technically called a "Double Crossbow" in Monster Classics Revisited as well as the Advance Players Guide, and some controversy about if the APG "Double Crossbow" replaced it completely) Without the restriction on reloading, you would be looking at 'double' the damage per hit, for only an additional -2 to hit per attack. If that is OP for your campaign would again be up to you to decide. If allowed, I would replace one of the feats for crossbow mastery. Also probably up the strength a bit for the character by at least a point, that sucker is heavy... even made out of darkwood.

Grand Lodge

16k for the Winged Boots. A little bit more expensive then Boots of Speed but not out of range.

Bracers of Falcon's Aim would (technically) push his crit up to 17-20/x4 as a Bolt Ace. I would like to also point out many GMs ban this item, and it isn't allowed in PFS (for what I consider good reason, in my and many other's opinion the item is extremely underpriced for what it does). Still as this is a home game so if allowed, go for it. I would at least have a talk with the GM about the item and that controversy to get his thoughts.

Grand Lodge

I think (Bolt Ace) (Gun Tank) Gunslinger 5 / (Base) Fighter 5 would be a pretty good level 10 build.

If carrying capacity is being watched carefully a strength of 12 Should -probably- be enough to stick with a light load, though an extra point or two would allow more breathing room.

Special gear of note:

Handy Haversack - 2k
Boots of Speed - 12k
Sash of the War Champion - 4k
Gloves of Dueling -15k
Mithral Full Plate - 10.5k
Darkwood Underwater Light Crossbow - 410

43900 gold total. leaving 18,090 gold (assuming 62000 lvl 10 Wealth by level). Plenty i feel left over for enchanting and filling out with standard belt/cloak/rings/amulets/headband/ whatever else

The plate, haversack, and bow would weigh 32 lbs, giving 11 lbs (assuming 12 str) left for equipment -not- in the haversack.

With the sash, Gun Tank, Fighter Armor Training the total dex to AC would be at +6, and would only increase from there with future levels. Dropping the Gun Tank archetype would be fine and still allows for full movement. An archetype like Weapon Master Fighter may be very suitable and appealing. Still allows for the gloves of dueling, but then you would likely want to drop Gun Tank Archetype and Sash of the War Champion, go with lighter armor. Replacing the Underwater Light Crossbow with a regular Light Crossbow would be fine as well.

Gliding and shooting the rules are silent on. If I was a GM, I would probably allow it with the caveat that the crossbow must be previously loaded, you fire one handed (-2 penalty), and then can't reload again while gliding. Switching out boots of speed for winged boots could be a fine choice if he wants to fly around shooting things. Especially if another source of haste is available.

Example feats:
lvl 1 - Point Blank Shot
lvl 3 - Precise Shot
lvl 5 - Deadly Aim
lvl 6 (fighter 1) - Weapon Focus (Underwater Light Crossbow)
lvl 7 - Rapid Shot
lvl 7 (fighter 2) - Rapid Reload (Underwater Light Crossbow)
lvl 9 - Improved Critical (Underwater Light Crossbow)
lvl 9 (fighter 4)- Weapon Specialization (Underwater Light Crossbow)

using conservative estimates of +1 magic weapon, 22 Dex, no other buffs.

to hit
+10 Bab, + 1 Magic Weapon, + 1 Weapon Focus, +6 dex, +3 Fighter Weapon Training, -2 Rapid Reload - 3 Deadly Aim
= +16 to hit (+17 w/in 30) = +16/+16/+11
(critting 17-20/x3)

+6 dex, + 1 Magic Weapon, +2 Weapon Specialization, + 6 Deadly Aim, +3 Fighter Weapon Training
= 1d8 + 18 (+19 w/in 30) damage per shot.

Things like haste just make the above better.

Grand Lodge

TxSam88 wrote:

I built a dual wielding hand crossbow bolt ace, that is pretty devastating. Combine it with Splitting Bolt and it's gets insane...

at 20th level, the weapons look like this:

Hand crossbow (light)
P 30' 1d4+20

Hand crossbow (light, offhand)
P 30' 1d4+20

combined with Splitting bolt, damage is tripled.....

how nasty is that?

so if all bolts hit, 540 damage before dice are rolled.

Splitting bolt doesn't work like that

Neither the attack roll nor the damage of the smaller bolts can be affected by any special abilities of the wielder or crossbow.

Thus you are probably looking at 1d8+1 from the special bolts. 1d10 if from a heavy.

Thus, no Deadly Aim, no Point Blank, and I am pretty sure no Crossbow Training as they are all special abilities of the wielder. No magical properties from the bow itself either. Only the +1 from the arrow itself. If you managed to get more powerful ammunition, such as the flame arrow spell, that would apply.

Grand Lodge

As a more off the wall idea, what about a Kitsune with a bunch of magical tails. Transformed into their human form would hide the actual tails. Abilities like charm person, suggestion, dominate person. Misdirection to actually make them DETECT like an undead/vampire.

Use high sleight of hand to perhaps do the occasional drink potion / UMD wand to turn into mist. Disguise skill, bluff. A swashbuckler or ninja (both?) might make a good class to tack this onto if building "legit". Both classes are self contained without feats being so manditory. Both make good use of the charisma and dex of the Kitsune.

Grand Lodge

Makes sense.

I was never thinking Dead Shot and Vital Strike themselves stacked.

For what it is worth, I am trying to find ways to get a crossbow and have advantages over a normal bow. This bolt looks interesting, and an option bow users don't have.

I am thinking some options DO work? Spells such as Gravity Bow and Flame Arrow. As these part the enchantment on the ammunition itself, not from the bow or the wielder.

Gravity Bow:

Gravity bow significantly increases the weight and density of arrows or bolts fired from your bow or crossbow the instant before they strike their target and then return them to normal a few moments later. Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is. For instance, an arrow fired from a Medium longbow normally deals 1d8 points of damage, but it would instead deal 2d6 points of damage if fired from a gravity bow (see table on this page for associated increase/decrease in damage due to size change). Only you can benefit from this spell. If anyone else uses your bow to make an attack the arrows deal damage as normal for their size.

Flame Arrow:

This spell allows you to turn ammunition (such as arrows, crossbow bolts, shuriken, and sling stones) into fiery projectiles. Each piece of ammunition deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage to any target it hits. A flaming projectile can easily ignite a flammable object or structure, but it won't ignite a creature it strikes.

Grand Lodge

Assume Bolt Ace Gunslinger

How would Vital Strike interact with Splitting Bolt

Splitting Bolt:

When this +1 bolt hits a foe, it
deals damage as normal and
then splits in two, creating two
smaller bolts. Each of these smaller bolts flies toward another
target within 30 feet of the initial enemy struck. A single splitting
bolt can thus strike up to three targets. The smaller bolts use the
same attack roll result as the original splitting bolt and the same
damage dice, though the damage for each bolt is rolled separately.
Neither the attack roll nor the damage of the smaller bolts can
be affected by any special abilities of the wielder or crossbow.

Dead Shot:

Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger’s single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

Vital Strike:

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

Grand Lodge

Not counting feats, A creature with blindsight would bypass stealth completely. A creature with blindsense might not see the creature that is stealthing, but it would know there is something "there". Thus, a rogue using stealth against blindsense still might get sneak attack as it effectively has total concealment.

Keep in mind too, many creatures with blindsight can not actually "see" with vision at all.

Grand Lodge

Michael Hallet wrote:
Corwin Illum wrote:

I've never had it be an issue in PFS. If it doesn't work for that, then it doesn't work for Dervish Dance either. Dervish dance also reads:

"... You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand."

You "weapon" in the offhand is just a spell. The text just seems to indicate clarification on how you use it. It is like TWF, but it isn't. Such that you can't get improved TWF

Except that's pretty much the same thing Slashing Grace now says and the same logic that was used to disallow Slashing Grace and Spell Combat. So I'm thinking it doesn't work.

"You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied"

Spell Combat considers your hand to be occupied by the spell and treats it as if you were two-weapon fighting. Given the FAQ to Slashing Grace, I would not allow Dervish Dance to work either.

Even if it would work, how do you make Dazzling Display and the Cha-based skills not a tax for that class? My magus only has a 10 Charisma.

Also, not really keen on waiting until level 6 to get Dex to damage. I might as well just buy an Agile weapon at that point.

The trait bruising intellect is quite good. Practically makes intimidate impossible to fail. Later on, Shatter Defenses becomes extremely good for a Kensai, even more so when you eventually become a Seeker in PFS.

The others, Diplomacy is always useful and becomes a class skill, the bonus is nice. Acrobatics is extremely useful anyway and becomes a class skill, the bonus is amazing. Knowledge nobility can come in handy and becomes a class skill. Intimidate you will want anyway likely, especially with Dazzling Display.

Besides you call yourself an Aldori, those skills are what an Aldori 'do'. Not really so much a tax.

As for Agile Enchant, you likely won't be able to afford it until around level 5-6 anyway.

This dip also allows for a Black Blade if so desired. Something that can be quite useful. A Magus is designed to be fine without dex to damage early levels. Just augment with spell casting, perhaps pick up a pearl or two.

Grand Lodge

I've never had it be an issue in PFS. If it doesn't work for that, then it doesn't work for Dervish Dance either. Dervish dance also reads:

"... You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand."

You "weapon" in the offhand is just a spell. The text just seems to indicate clarification on how you use it. It is like TWF, but it isn't. Such that you can't get improved TWF

Grand Lodge

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Michael Hallet wrote:

The scope of the updates to the Advanced Class Guide have put a solid dent in several character concepts. So I figured it might be cathartic to have a place to remember those characters who will either have to drastically be altered to the point that they might as well be different characters or who might not be played again due to the changes.

So step up one and all to the podium and eulogize those brave heroes smote in the prime of their lives by The Hammer of Er-ra'ta.

Favian Aldori was a promising kensai magus and student of the Aldori dueling school, who's career was cut short due to a sudden inability to mix his spellcasting with the slashing grace of his swordplay.

With Slashing Grace no longer working with Spell Combat, the character would either have to take 3 levels or rogue or wait until he had enough fame to buy an agile weapon in order to have the same effectiveness with his blade as he used to have right at level 1. Sure there is always the rapier/fencing grace route or the dervish dance, but the character is Favian Aldori, so the character isn't the same if he can't use an Aldori dueling sword any longer.

Or do what I did with my kensai magus, before the ACG came out. Take 1 level in the Aldori Swordlord Prestige class. It fits the flavor and is actually a pretty good level to take.

Grand Lodge

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To Mark especially:

For the Bolt Ace, Any chance for clarification if Sharp Shoot deed is supposed to NOT work with Dealt Aim feat?

This seems to be an oversight, especially now with the Signiture Deed feat change to Sharp Shoot.

Grand Lodge

Multiclassing aside, brawler (wild child) can not benefit from this feat directly as your animal companion itself (probably) doesn't qualify for the feat. You animal companion ALSO needs this feat. But to get the feat on the animal companion, your animal companion needs to have the ability to get an animal companion.

Classes like hunters get around this by sharing the teamwork feats they have with their companion.

Note this is the only teamwork feat i can think of that only benefits that particular pair of participants. 2 hunters with this feat wouldn't benefit off each others animal companions, only their own.

It is technically possible for the primary animal companion to have animal ally, thus having the capability to take this feat.

Grand Lodge

I find that highly unlikely, but possible. ACG printing has been being worked on for awhile. Unchained is quite recent. There has to be a lot of time for things to go off to printers (which i believe Paizo prints in china). Though perhaps a last minute rush was made for the ACG due to unchained and it was made in on time. If the issue was in Unchained, the change should have been made in Unchained, not ACG.

It was still "open to interpretation" before. Whether it truly worked RAW or not, I am unsure.

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether it worked before or not and arguing stances is now pointless. It doesn't work now.

Grand Lodge

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Corwin Illum wrote:

This would be the most powerful thing a magus could do with their arcana. I'd rule your level would be 0.

And I have a kensai bladebound magus as my main character. I'd say "no" but flagging for FAQ

Saying something is against the rules because it's too good is not a good reason at all. I really dislike it when the gm spot nerfs things ie been planning my entire character around, and even suffered being the worst party member, and then told that, after all my waiting and suffering, that my character is too good and gets nerfed.

I feel vindicated in my stance.

With the ACG errata, the answer is settled, it does not work.

Grand Lodge

Shyrak wrote:

@ BadBird:

That sounds good. But if I invest a level into the Fighter and wear a medium or heavy armor, don't I get a penalty when casting spells?
Also, that may sound stupid, but why can't I cast spells while wielding a whip?

@ Corwin Illum:
What kind of weapon would you suggest for that build?

Summoner seems to be nice. But I guess it would be too difficult for now. Since our whole party is pretty new to Pathfinder, controlling an additional NPC (and I think you need to control the summoned monster) would be too confusing.

Longspear or Rapier/shield. Longspear could be good for you with its reach and you certainly have the strength to make use of 1.5x str. With the reach, could add to your "controlling the battlefield" capacity. Also recommend a silver heavy mace backup weapon. There is no reason you can't have all these weapons (longspear, rapier, heavy mace, [throw in a dagger and a few javelins for ranged combat]) and also have a heavy shield. See what you like best.

For armor you start with a chain shirt, get elven chain as soon as you are able. For you, essentially elven chain gives you medium armor profiency and is worth the 1k compared to a regular mithral breastplate.

Grand Lodge

My advice is: It looks like your party needs a cha guy. To be the party "face" and it also looks like your knowledge skills are lacking.

Correct me if I am wrong with your party (barb, ranger, knight)

A melee oriented Bard slides in and fills in the gaps you are lacking, with the role you want.


15pt buy
str 17(15+2), dex 14, con 12, int 10, wis 7, cha 14

20pt buy
str 18(16+2), dex 14, con 12, int 12, wis 7, cha 14

Suggested feats: Arcane Strike/toughness/dodge/improved inititive/power attack/ great fortitude. Perhaps in that order.

versatile preformance (Keyboard) at level 2 will give you your diplomacy/intimidate

versatile preformance (singing) at level 6 will give you sense motive/bluff

Both of these will key off those respective perform skills, keep them maxed. Put the rest of your skill points in knowledge or other areas where you see fit.

Spells like remove fear/feather fall/cure can really be a boon.

Example of how you support: Level 7 you could heroism the whole party. When a difficult battle starts, start with inspire courage (move action), and cast haste (standard action). Congraduations, you just gave the entire group +5 to hit (+1 haste, +2 heroism, +2 inspire) and +2 damage, with an extra attack. Then you start to brawl things yourself.

Grand Lodge

Bards can be very good, and very great in your party as well.

You may want to consider a more melee oriented combat bard such as the Arcane Duelist. If your group needs a party "face" then i would recommend sticking to the base bard with the versatile performance ability and using the skills and knowledge skill boosts. Your party might need a guy like that? I wouldn't recommend an archetype that drops inspire courage, especially in your physical damage group party.

A bard starting with 18str, 14 cha would be a great melee oriented bard. May want to pick up feats like toughness and great fortitude to make up for your weak points, even if the feats aren't "flashy".

If your party is currently lacking an archer, then go with more dex and be an archer. Bards can be good at that too. Hint: Arcane strike works with bows.

Stick with the buffing/curing/support spells, your DC's won't be great.

Spells like remove fear, feather fall cure light wounds for 1stlevel. **Heroism**, Mirror Image for 2nd level. **Haste**, Dispel Magic for 3rd. Dimension Door / Freedom Of Movement for 4th.

Grand Lodge

Perhaps a sorcerer (dragonic) into Dragon Disciple. Your main stats being str, and then followed by cha. Can melee pretty pretty well with the rest of them, but can also stay back spell slinging if desired.

There is also the Eldrich Knight, Full BAB, mostly Full Spellcasting. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldrich Knight x could work out well in your favor.

Magus could work out well, but would often be in the thick of things.

A Magus is for the guy who always wants to be in the middle of melee, swinging is sword and spellcasting damage spells (usually). An Eldrich Knight is good for the Wizard who wants to enhance his fighting ability and still cast fairly effectively, it sounds like you are looking for the later.

Grand Lodge

If multiclassing...

Swashbuckler 1/ Paladin 2 could make a great baseline "charismatic" fighter.

Couple different paths from here

1) Finish Swashbuckler.

2) Aldori dueling sword. Go Fighter 2 With the Swordlord Archetype. Take the Aldori Swordlord Prestigue class. Advance from here as you see fit.

3) Duelist Prestigue class.

Grand Lodge

With variant multiclass sorcerer from pathfinder unchained.

I'll agree somewhat that the spell casting is weaker on a bard, but if you are obsessed with spellcasting, why are you going to do dragon disciple? The bard will do what you want just fine, in some ways even better. You are not going to be slinging spells round after round.

Heroism is a level 2 spell, which is a big advantage. You have access to mirror image, alter self, dispel magic, displacement/blink. Later on dimension door and freedom of movement (sorc doesn't). Can also pull out a backup cure in the right situation.

While it may not have everything, there are areas where it is better. It has more then enough.

Grand Lodge

There is use magic device. Could try to use that to cast ant haul from a wand. Also there is a ring of spell knowledge which could do what you want.

That being said, the maximum heavy carrying capacity for a 8 STR gnome is 60 lbs. Triple that to 180, subtract your own gear and you are likely not going to be able to pick up most medium creatures with either the cords, or belt/ant haul. You would need "both" in order to do so.

There are consequences for going that low in strength and being small.

Tell your party you are not a taxi ;)

Grand Lodge

It might turn out something like this

Grand Lodge

My suggestion is a different take completely on Dragon disciple...

The eventual end result would be bard 8/ DD x. Paladin 2 / Bard 8 / DD 10 could also be considered for a full level 20 build. I'd skip the paladin though until maybe the end. Plus it is completely full of flavor.

In my method you do get almost full bloodline access with the exception of the level 20 power. Tacked onto the power of the bard chassis, rather then the sorcerer. The bard is better for fighting.

Grand Lodge

I actually personally like the Bard, you focus on buffing yourself and your allies (mostly yourself), with a few utility spells thrown in for good measure such as remove fear and a perhaps a cure. Have high strength. Your cha can be fine to start with at 14 or so as you won't be fosing on DC's. Get Elven Chainmail when you can. You will still have great skills.

One thing I have wanted to do with this with would be to play a Bard with the Flamedancer archetype. Then use variant multiclassing (sorcerer[dracongic]) from unchained. Switch to Dragon Disciple after level 8.

2 bards in the party are actually quite fine as long as they don't step on each other's toes. If he is the typical enchanter type bard for example you will get along quite well. You will have different spell preferences and be in different roles. Early levels he will probably be doing the inspire courage while you hit things. Later on when you can inspire courage as a move action, he can be doing dirge of doom or inspire heroics. +2 to hit/damage on your side and -2 on their side is pretty huge.

If you want a hammer type weapon, heirloom weapon can be a very good trait for you (if traits allowed), getting an earthbreaker or Lucern Hammer. Also worth considering for martial weapons would be going half-orc for the Falchion or Greataxe... though not exactly a hammer

Grand Lodge

The biggest thing I have noticed with d20pfsrd is with certain campaign specific / Golarion attributes. In particular with traits and feats that require a certain god, or various other "named" pieces. Such as Blade of Mercy for Saerenrae or Defensive Strategist for Torag. Similiarly, The 'Aldori' Dueling Sword is just called Dueling Sword, and the 'Aldori' Swordlord prestigue class is called just Swordlord. Wayang Spellhunter trait is instead called 'Metamagic Master'.

To be honest, I am not sure how AoN gets away with it while d20pfsrd doesn't.

I've never seen an actual rules piece be wrong, unless it was something new that recently changed. Those that have changed I have seen get changed farirly quickly.

Grand Lodge

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Not to derail the thread...

As another player in the game, The GM didn't even so much as "allow" it, more "allowed it to occur", but it was also mildly the fault of the player. There was an in game random effect that could occur, and you could set the level of randomness. He had set the randomness to the highest level, (which by the way is something that completely made sense for his character to do, with his alignment axis in chaotic and in the situation that presented itself). His stat could just as easily have -doubled- rather then reduced to 1.

Other examples that happened was my character turned very dragonish. My character later lost -every- piece of equipment to a different effect. Currently walking around with nothing. Both occurred due to choices made, and some random effects. I could have earned a bunch of wealth... but instead lost all my gear. At least stuff can be replaced... while stats are a harder thing to fix. No restoration spell will work.

It is a crazy place, run by an 'old school' GM that does often enjoy throwing out the rulebook from time to time and include things you will never find in any source-book. Bad things can happen. Opened mindedness and rolling with things are key to the campaign, something I try to remind myself often while playing. Looking forward to see what happens next. I say this for the people thinking that the GM was "out for blood". This was definitely not the case.

The original poster is one of the finest role-players I have the pleasure of knowing. If anyone can pull it off, I know he can. Pretty sure I could not. Working on restoring him will be a thing that we will look out to be able to do in the future.

Grand Lodge

If this isn't PFS, what if you used Variant multiclassing wizard for the universalist school? Getting Mage armor with spell blending can be very good for a kensai and flavorful for a force user. The other abilities you get can be very good in general for a magus (though the cantrip is underwhelming for everyone)

Grand Lodge

Yeah, I think I like that interpretation.

Going a different bloodline with the variant class and then taking dragon disciple would probably be 'slap worthy' too.

Grand Lodge

Any clarification on how this works with bloodlines?

One thing I am wanting to make is a Flame Dancer Bard, with variant sorcerer (draconic [gold]). Then later taking Dragon Disciple.

Not sure how this impacts the bloodlines. It would certainly give a more powerful breath weapon (I think?) But what would the other effects be?

Grand Lodge

kestral287 wrote:

Shield's on the Magus spell list. It's pretty easy for them to get a Shield bonus. Dueling Sword still isn't a bad choice, mind, but the shield bonus doesn't matter all that much.

I'm not really a fan of dealing with the ASF, personally. You're talking at best +5 AC, which should really only matter at the lowest levels. As you grow you get both of your key stats to AC so you should be fine.

Yes and no. For the early levels I wore a Mithral chain shirt with pride on my Kensai. I eventually picked up a way to cast Mage Armor, then stopped wearing it. However it could still be incredibly useful to someone who wants to be a true tank. Focus on spells that don't have spell failure anyway. Enchanting the armor is amazing, something you can't do otherwise, that is where it will quickly outpace mage armor.

Grand Lodge

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Mithral Chain shirt or Mithral Kikko armor can be a great investment on a Kensai Magus. Just need to put up with the 10% spell failure. Can go a long way to making you a "tank" though, especially if enchanted. Cast spells without S components don't have a failure chance at all. Some will be what you want to do -anyway- as a tank, such as blur and displacement, dimension door in front or away. True strike to hit those though targets.

If you are looking to be truly tanky, the Aldori Dueling Sword with the dueling mastery feat can be quite good. Gives +init and +2 shield bonus... Something a kensai has a tough time acquiring. Slashing grace works well here too.

Example Feats:
[Kensai] - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[Kensai] - Weapon Focus (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[Human] - Weapon Finesse
[1st] - Slashing Grace (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[3rd] - Dodge
[5 Magus bonus] - Quickdraw
[5th] - Aldori Dueling Mastery

Grand Lodge

Blink and deflect arrows (also gloves of arrow snaring) will ruin a gunslinger's day.

Grand Lodge

I am building a core bard.

I would recommend strength based, You could hit things as dex, but I don't see it being very effective in the damage department. Any of the weapon choices work. Depends if you value reach vs AC, or crit vs higher die.

Something I am doing is actually building into a dragon disciple around level 7-8. Get extra strength and armor. preform as a move action. Keep in mind the armor Elven Chain. Can wear that with no penalty to attacks. Worth the extra 1k.

Grand Lodge

Haydon Mehmet wrote:
Corwin Illum wrote:

What about an Eldrich Knight? This might work out well for you. Fully qualifies you for the magic swordsman feel. Just take spells that enhance your power, take a specialized school and take evocation as one of the opposition schools... should cut out a lot of the "blasty" feel.

Titan Fighter 1/wizard 6/EK x

If doing PFS, I am not sure the below are completely legal due to a Large sized Black Blade. A black blade is a magical, intelligent weapon that increases in level as you progress.

This could work well if you wanted to do Blade Adept Arcanist with a large bastard sword.

Fighter 1/Blade Adept Arcanist 6/EK x

A straight up Bladebound Magus could work well. Choose a large bastard sword as your Black Blade.

Bladebound Magus x

can a magus use a large bastard sword effectivly though. I thought that magus need to have one free hand. does the bound blade archetype change this somehow?

No, cannot -spell combat- You would be giving up that ability. You could still -Spellstrike- however.

Grand Lodge

What about an Eldrich Knight? This might work out well for you. Fully qualifies you for the magic swordsman feel. Just take spells that enhance your power, take a specialized school and take evocation as one of the opposition schools... should cut out a lot of the "blasty" feel.

Titan Fighter 1/wizard 6/EK x

If doing PFS, I am not sure the below are completely legal due to a Large sized Black Blade. A black blade is a magical, intelligent weapon that increases in level as you progress.

This could work well if you wanted to do Blade Adept Arcanist with a large bastard sword.

Fighter 1/Blade Adept Arcanist 6/EK x

A straight up Bladebound Magus could work well. Choose a large bastard sword as your Black Blade.

Bladebound Magus x

Grand Lodge

What about a wizard into an Eldrich knight. Grab rime and reach metamagic.

A rime/reach Frigid Touch guarantees a melee person is not hitting you the next round, and ranged guys are not doing too much better. A Frostbite can be used with iterative attacks to great effect.

Grand Lodge

Does it have to be a gnome? What about a human that uses the hooked hammer, use your bonus feat. I'd recommend silver on the bludgeoning side and maybe cold iron on the piercing side.

Grand Lodge

I'd probably stay away from mounts, especially flying ones. Emerald Spire is pure dungeon and you will likely find flying problematic in a lot of areas.

Druid might work, but again with the narrow hallways of dungeons you might find the larger creatures you can turn into are ill suited.

Grand Lodge

I was looking into this as well. As far as i can tell there is no answer. I'd like one.

I can't determine if the AOO would be unbalanced or not, certainly it would make the fort save more consequential. compared with spells like fireball or lightning bolt which can hit multiple creatures. Granted those have a reflex save, but this requires melee.

The magus in me really wants it to provoke and i don't want my desires to cloud my judgement of how the spell actually works.

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