Handling character death


Advice

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Grand Lodge

My first time GMing a home game. Due to circumstances, one of my players died. Level 3. To make matters more interesting, they have tools at their disposal to resurrect said character in the form of a scroll of resurrection.

The player would rather make a new PC and I'm not particularly sure what i should do. Particularly since one comment was it would save 10000g due to not "wasting" the scroll. But that is why the resource is there, to be used in an emergency.

If you aren't having fun with a character or something isn't working out. I'm all for not forcing a character on someone, but shouldn't there be a consequence for death?


Welcome to the issue of death and that everything is game.

Personally I'd let him make a new character (because he doesn't like his old one) and subtract the resurrecting cost from his gold (keeping the cost). Also when he rebuilds make sure he follows the guidelines for how expensive a single item can be. Since the WBL expects and allocates a portion for consumables taking the hit for the spell doesn't throw him that off balance from a normal lv3.


If the player would rather make a new pc then i say let him, Death in and of itself is a consequence. You could also try askign the player why they don't want to play the character any more.

the real problem is the pc's finding a reason to not use it while in character.

Also idea, have the pc's use the scroll but have it work more like reincarnation where they come back as a different person.

Scarab Sages

A lot of players don't mind their PCs dying. It gives them a chance to try something new, and you can always find some way to bring them back later as a dramatic reveal if everyone is in agreement.

Let the party hold onto the scroll. It may be important later on.

Also, there are some interesting ideas about character death, afterlife, and resurrection in this book which you may find of interest.


I understand some worry about being cavalier about death, but presuming the players aren't just doing stupid things to try and get killed I wouldn't worry about that too much. Sometimes maintaining story continuity is important too, but usually a bit of clever backstory can help out with that.

Basically, you want your players to have fun, and if the player would have more fun with a new character, that is what should matter most.

A separate though is taking advantage of death. If the party splits up the old PCs gear, and the new character arrives fully kitted out, then the death is actually an advantage, not a disadvantage for the party as a whole, which is not something you want. There are a few ways to handle this, but the easiest is just having the dead characters stuff go to next of kin.

Your scroll is a similar issue. I'm guessing that you want the party to bring back their dead companions if necessary, which is why they have the scroll to begin with. I would imagine that if they used it, they would find another before too long, since you would still have the desire for the party to be able to bring back a dead companion. Since they didn't use it, they won't find a replacement, so they aren't actually saving anything from an out-of-character perspective.

I've seen groups starting new characters a level behind or with less money to try and promote keeping their character alive. For the most part I don't think it improves the game for anyone, and in some cases can cause resentment or people to leave.


I'd let him come back as someone new. My personal take on resurrection type items is that they're to be used in a actual physical emergency, rather then to bring back a PC that died a while ago. Like if the party is fighting a big boss and the main dps character gets killed, you use a resurrection scroll then. Besides, coming back as a new character is something of a player's right. I'd impose a bit of a xp penalty or something like that, but nothing to serious.

Grand Lodge

Here is how i might handle it. My players had to choose sources. I think i will prevent the source from being used again by that player if the class from that source dies and doesn't come back.

Except the CRB, but no one has chosen a core crb class yet. In that case they can't make the same CRB class.

The Exchange

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Not sure if that would be a good idea. Also, there are some players who play their characters as accepting death as final, which is also a valid form of RP. Afterall you fought the good fight, died a glorious death, so what's stopping you from going to the afterlife that you deserve? Especially if it involves endless rounds of drinks in Cayden's halls.


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The consequence for death is not playing that character anymore. The consequence is the shared experience of the players around the table, and the change in companions for the characters in the world. Character death should not affect the player's next character. Dying is a part of the game. You die, then you make a new character and continue to have fun. If the party is going to "waste" a 10k ressource, it'd be an excellent time to teach them about speak with dead and other divination spells, with which they can double check if their compatriot's spirit would actually accept ressurection.

Don't impose "consequences" on players for changing characters, people aren't going to have more fun if you do, so you're just artificially contracting the scope of your players' options, if they don't want to deal with said consequences.

-Nearyn


Nearyn wrote:
If the party is going to "waste" a 10k ressource, it'd be an excellent time to teach them about speak with dead and other divination spells, with which they can double check if their compatriot's spirit would actually accept ressurection.

This is actually a misunderstanding of that spell. It should really be called 'Interrogate Corpse' because it doesn't have anything to do with the spirit, and indeed is limited to only what the character knew in life.

So for example, if he thought when he was alive he was going to the hot place, but ended up drinking some brews with Cayden, the corpse might say bring me back, but the soul refuse. If you know the person well, you should probably know their pre-death view on resurrection without the spell, and that is all the spell can tell you.


The Skeptical Gnome wrote:
I'd let him come back as someone new. My personal take on resurrection type items is that they're to be used in a actual physical emergency, rather then to bring back a PC that died a while ago. Like if the party is fighting a big boss and the main dps character gets killed, you use a resurrection scroll then. Besides, coming back as a new character is something of a player's right. I'd impose a bit of a xp penalty or something like that, but nothing to serious.

Raise dead, resurrection, and true ressurection all have a 1 minute casting time.


I second not blocking the "source" from being used. Many characters can benefit from a particular book for differing reasons.

If the player wasn't enjoying the character, no need to punish them further, they obviously haven't been enjoying themselves to this point anyways. This is just a very simple "in game" reason to switch characters now.

I'm one of "those" players who just about always lets my character die and stay dead. Sometimes the die rolls badly, it is part of the game. The game is typically skewed in the character's favor and death of a character isn't likely to happen anyways, when it does it tends to be memorable (for one reason or another). Besides, how heroic can your death be if you know you'll just be raised after?


Chess Pwn wrote:

Welcome to the issue of death and that everything is game.

Personally I'd let him make a new character (because he doesn't like his old one) and subtract the resurrecting cost from his gold (keeping the cost). Also when he rebuilds make sure he follows the guidelines for how expensive a single item can be. Since the WBL expects and allocates a portion for consumables taking the hit for the spell doesn't throw him that off balance from a normal lv3.

Don't do this.

WBL gives 3k gold to a level 3 character, he would have -7000 starting gold.


alexd1976 wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

Welcome to the issue of death and that everything is game.

Personally I'd let him make a new character (because he doesn't like his old one) and subtract the resurrecting cost from his gold (keeping the cost). Also when he rebuilds make sure he follows the guidelines for how expensive a single item can be. Since the WBL expects and allocates a portion for consumables taking the hit for the spell doesn't throw him that off balance from a normal lv3.

Don't do this.

WBL gives 3k gold to a level 3 character, he would have -7000 starting gold.

Well, that would be an interesting plot hook and a way to avoid WBL going nuts with the old character's gear. 'Say, any of you want to help an adventurer down on his/her luck? I owe 7,000 gold to "Eddie the Everything-Capper" and ... '

I'd check more about why they weren't too happy with the old character, and make sure the new one is going to fit allright. Maybe a 1 level drop if you think it's important. But make sure the party still works as a result. Replacing a dead wizard with a barbarian will mean a minor drop in magic access ...


Qaianna wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

Welcome to the issue of death and that everything is game.

Personally I'd let him make a new character (because he doesn't like his old one) and subtract the resurrecting cost from his gold (keeping the cost). Also when he rebuilds make sure he follows the guidelines for how expensive a single item can be. Since the WBL expects and allocates a portion for consumables taking the hit for the spell doesn't throw him that off balance from a normal lv3.

Don't do this.

WBL gives 3k gold to a level 3 character, he would have -7000 starting gold.

Well, that would be an interesting plot hook and a way to avoid WBL going nuts with the old character's gear. 'Say, any of you want to help an adventurer down on his/her luck? I owe 7,000 gold to "Eddie the Everything-Capper" and ... '

I'd check more about why they weren't too happy with the old character, and make sure the new one is going to fit allright. Maybe a 1 level drop if you think it's important. But make sure the party still works as a result. Replacing a dead wizard with a barbarian will mean a minor drop in magic access ...

Dropping someone a level because the GM killed him is mean.

Death is the punishment.

Dropping him a level merely INCREASES chances of dying again.

I would quit the game if a GM did that to me. Seriously.

If someone changes characters OFTEN, that is when you need to discuss the situation with them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Corwin Illum wrote:
The player would rather make a new PC and I'm not particularly sure what i should do.

There's your answer right there. If the player wanted to bring back their PC, I'd work with them on that, especially since they have the resources. But if the player would rather make a new one, there's no reason why they shouldn't. If you're concerned about it making sense in-game, they can always say that their character left instructions not to resurrect them if they died.

Consequence for death = that character is dead. Don't really need to do any more than that, really.


Ouch, didn't realize those values. Yeah, my bad on that advice then. I'd dock him 10% then, that's not to crazy of a cost, 300 for a death.


Why not cast the scroll assuming he wants to come back, and have the character refuse to come back (perhaps satisfied with the afterlife).

Then the group will know he doesn't want to come back.

Because the players do, the characters don't. They lost a friend and ally. The chance to bring him back why wouldn't they try?


Cavall wrote:

Why not cast the scroll assuming he wants to come back, and have the character refuse to come back (perhaps satisfied with the afterlife).

Then the group will know he doesn't want to come back.

Because the players do, the characters don't. They lost a friend and ally. The chance to bring him back why wouldn't they try?

Because at 3rd level, that scroll is over 3 times what any one character should have available to them. Assuming a four person party, it is worth slightly less than the whole party's wealth combined. It obviously was a safety net or plot item given by the GM and they don't want waste it. A simple and cheap Speak with Dead cast by a local NPC costs 150gp and saves the party from wasting what would presumably be the party's greatest treasure for some time to come.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My personal criteria for character death is 'Did the character die in a meaningful story-building sort of way'?

If I have a character bite the big one while holding the line against the raging demonic hordes as the Empyreals finally get off their butt and doing something to close the World Wound? Cool, epic death. No res needed. That's the kind of story that is legendary, epic, and cool.

Alternatively, if my character's death is the galvanizing act that gets a nation state to realize that 'hey, this local lord guy's a total d-bag and needs to go down', that's also in the category of cool 'I made an impact' type endings.

If, on the other hand, I'm in my second dungeon adventure, and Fred the Rogue blew his trap-magic check and I step on an IED and explode to random violence that really has no 'story' behind it?

Not only had I better get some sort of replay option (res, raise, reincarnate, new character equivalent level) but I'd also better get something more than a 'I'm sorry' from Fred the Rogue.

Same goes for 'shanked by random mook #2 in first adventure' 'died from mosquito bite in the Highlands in first encounter', etc.


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Chess Pwn wrote:
Ouch, didn't realize those values. Yeah, my bad on that advice then. I'd dock him 10% then, that's not to crazy of a cost, 300 for a death.

Player-dammit, I died!

GM-yep, also, I'm punishing you
Player-wut
GM-yeah, you get less money, so you increase your chances of dying
Player-*sound of car door closing, car starting, driving away*


The looting of a PC is something that happens every once in a while. Just talk to your players and explain that it will unbalance the game you think and would appreciate that they don't take advantage of the situation.

It's a game, if the players are having fun don't punish them.


alexd1976 wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Ouch, didn't realize those values. Yeah, my bad on that advice then. I'd dock him 10% then, that's not to crazy of a cost, 300 for a death.

Player-dammit, I died!

GM-yep, also, I'm punishing you
Player-wut
GM-yeah, you get less money, so you increase your chances of dying
Player-*sound of car door closing, car starting, driving away*

Obviously it's not quite the "Dammit, I died" Since the player want's to bring in a new character.

Also, with raise dead being so expensive I feel that death is supposed to have some "short term" consequence for the player.

and if you look at how you're supposed to spend your money for a new character above lv1.
"PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins. "
so my 10% suggesting isn't even the entire disposable item allotment, so saying you spend 2/3rd of your disposable item income for a new character isn't some crippling disadvantage that will spiral to another death.

but I guess if you're the kind of player that would die again easily without that 300gp at 3rd level, because you didn't have that 3rd masterwork backup weapon, then I guess it could seem more harsh than it does to me.

Grand Lodge

I dunno, what you are suggesting is that he only have 150 gp for consumables, spending the other 300 gp on "off screen" unidentified expenses.

So, he is limited to a tanglefoot bag, a potion of CLW, a couple of alchemist fires, and an acid.

That, seriously, can cause a negative impact at third level. That 300 gp might have gone into a potion of darkvision or invisibility, both of which can easily mean the difference between life and death. Or some extra scribed spells, if he is a Wizard/Magus.

To be honest, when I GM, I look not just at the PCs' actual level, but where they are on the scale to the next level, to determine the new PC's starting gold. If the party is 5th level, but going to level up after this next session, or sometime during it, I am likely to pro-rate the new PC wealth between 5th level Wealth and 6th level wealth. Maybe that is just me.

My current campaign has had all the dead PC's stuff being returned to his family. Indeed, one of the things I was checking was what the actual wealth of my players' PCs was at, because it is feeling low for their level, and may be starting to impact their ability to handle the enemies coming up. I know one of them, instead of 10,500 gp, had about 6,300 gp in gear and money. :(


kinevon wrote:

I dunno, what you are suggesting is that he only have 150 gp for consumables, spending the other 300 gp on "off screen" unidentified expenses.

So, he is limited to a tanglefoot bag, a potion of CLW, a couple of alchemist fires, and an acid.

Thing is, most of the characters I've seen don't spend much if any on such things. I've seen characters that don't have alchemist fire for swarms or even a free sling for ranged. The only thing they spent money on was gear.

Liberty's Edge

I have seen wealth and character death handled two ways. Either the new character inherits the dead character's possessions, or the old. character's possessions go away and the new PC gets standard WBL. Both ways seem to work well enough. I agree with allowing the player to build a new character.


Chess Pwn, what's your rationale for penalizing the player in the first place?


Death should have real "short term" consequences. Otherwise why try to be careful or care if you die? You die and want a new character, lose a little GP. It's not enough that it'll seriously hamper the new character from participating, nor make them more likely to die. WBL assumes you're spending consumables and the amount you have is after you've spent your consumables. So like the example for lv3. 15 is for consumables on creation along with 10% in coin. Personally I never see a player have that 10% in those two categories combined, let alone each one. also by the time they hit lv4 they shouldn't be any behind from anyone else. now you have a reason to play carefully, but if you do happen to die, it's not a major setback, but still not free.


Hey, still better than the situation that I just had to leave. Playing a high-lethality campaign, knowing this going into it, I plan accordingly with my Bloodrager. It doesn't matter, unfortunately, as the GM gets a little trigger-happy with his monsters, and sets us up against (get this) more than 50 golems, and a major Oni.

I manage to take down the Oni, while my friends are keeping the golems busy in a running fight. He kills me in the process, but, again, I had prepared. I had a one-use Breath of Life amulet that pops me back up with just enough to take the last swing needed to kill the guy.

My reward? The golems nearby crush me to death as they fall apart.

Fortunately, my weapon was sentient, and could cast Raise Dead once per week. This apparently cheesed off my GM, even though he had vetted everything I had, and we had gone over, what I thought at the time was, all the house rules. Apparently not. He didn't like the fact that the 'only' penalty for being brought back with Raise Dead was the two negative levels, and declared that, from now on, if someone was raised by any means, including True Resurrection, they permanently lost a level.

I informed him after the session that it was the last straw, and haven't been back since. Three major changes in the house rules in three sessions, none discussed or announced beforehand, and I was done.

TL,DR; Death is enough of a penalty without making it worse.


why don't you just have the character be resurrected and decide to leave the party, then the new character can show up. perhaps dying has made the character reevaluate his life and decide he doesn't want to be an adventurer any more. hell, if your player is completely done with the character why not ask if you can have it. you can control him and make him reappear from time to time, or maybe death has warped him into something else. maybe he could become a villain etc.


Corwin Illum wrote:


If you aren't having fun with a character or something isn't working out. I'm all for not forcing a character on someone, but shouldn't there be a consequence for death?

Honestly, it has always been my opinion that quick and easy resurrection cheapens death a thousand times more then bringing in a new character. Walking away from a corpse knowing that, that could have been any one of them... resonates a lot more then just opening your eyes and shaking it off for the third or fourth time. That's when the 'Danger doesn't matter... we'll just get back up again/ Death=nuisance' attitude starts setting in.

I have never been a fan of punishing players for wanting to switch characters. This is still a game, and if something looked really awesome in the newest sourcebook... but once you hit the table it just isn't as fun as you hoped... don't make the players trudge along till the DM says it's ok to die. That's not cool.

I once made a decision to kill off a marvel character, and the DM made me play him for three more weeks till he thought it was ok to bring in a new character. And we were just sitting around headquarters and I could think of three or four ways to make the switch... and in the end it was just 'New guy shows up... make introductions.'

And really... at 3rd level? Before there is any legitimate way to HAVE that kind of wealth to negate death?? Don't let little things like that get in your way as a DM of having fun... and don't let it get in the way of the players having fun.

The 'cost' of death is so negligible and nuisance anyway... don't worry about someone 'not paying the reaper'.


The price of death is death.

In my current game we have 5 players. It started out a Rise of the Runelords game but heavily modified to the point that it is 100% not so anymore.

So, we have done a lot.

We saved Sandpoint, we were Knighted in Magnimar, we've fought ogres, and giants, and Dragons. We have an airship. Yadda yadda yadda.

Each of those things has benefits. Knights are more likely to get audiences with nobles, their word carries more weight.

We had a character die.

That character was unable to be raised. We were betrayed by one of our own who basically sold us out for power. We also had a new player join only recently.

So basically there are 2 characters who have been there from the beginning that are in good standing.

Our party consists of:

Sir Gwyn of Iomedae, Hero of Sandpoint, Slayer of Giants, Dragonbane, Knight of Magnimar, and Paladin of Iomedae.

Sir Charlone, Hero of Sandpoint, Slayer of Giants, Dragonbane, and Knight of Magnimar.

Luther - Who was more or less stripped of all titles and accolades.

Asmael, Slayer of Giants, Dragonbane.

Biggy, Dragonbane.

Sir Gwyn and Sir Charlone both garner benefits, such as discounts at shops and bonuses socially, in Magnimar. Their word carries considerably more weight. NPCs may not have any idea who Biggy is, despite him, stat wise, being just as, if not more powerful than, Sir Char or Sir Gwyn.


Nocte ex Mortis wrote:

Apparently not. He didn't like the fact that the 'only' penalty for being brought back with Raise Dead was the two negative levels, and declared that, from now on, if someone was raised by any means, including True Resurrection, they permanently lost a level.

I informed him after the session that it was the last straw, and haven't been back since. Three major changes in the house rules in three sessions, none discussed or announced beforehand, and I was done.

TL,DR; Death is enough of a penalty without making it worse.

Agreed.

Generally characters don't die conveniently at the end of a dungeon/encounter/event where they can be immediately resurrected (noting the cast time) and continue on with the game a little sluggish but still kicking. They die at inopportune times and then usually that player has to sit around and watch the rest of the session, unable to participate because, yep, they're dead. And the there's getting to the point where the character could be raised or a new character introduced - more sitting on the bench.

The penalty for death is potentially hours of sitting back and doing nothing while the rest of the party continue to play their characters. Applying in-character penalties such as level loss (not part of Pathfinder) or loss of wealth is just rubbing salt into the wound.

This goes even more if the PC died a 'heroic' death - i.e. deliberately putting themselves in harms way to achieve an objective/save the day/save another PC and so on.


If the player just wants to try a new character, is bored/disappointed with his current one, I have only one restriction: pick a new class; no repeating the same mistakes with different stats.

If he died in battle heroically, meaningfully, etc, yeah, sure, roll another paladin, not a problem. But you really should try some other options though, like the inquisitor, warpriest, etc... maybe some third-party stuff?

I just don't make it mandatory.


Punishing a player for dying is a bad idea in my opinion. Unless the person intentionally suicided because they don't enjoy their character then they already suffer from time out/loss of a character.

At the same time they shouldn't benefit from player death. I would agree with your group whether you want to either have player equipment spit among the party - in which case the new character comes in without magic items. Or they have equipment pass to next of kin/burried with body. In which case the new character gets standard wealth per level.

The sensible thing is to let the new character come in with WBL but with reasonsable DM set limits so they dont optimise items. Talk to your players but make sure its clear they can't have it both ways.


I'd say the real problem is that the player was playing a character he didn't care about. Maybe that should be penalty enough.

I do find it difficult to determine how much wealth a character should join with. The wealth by level table assumes a 4 person party. Using that table to insert a new character in a large party can result in the new character having 25-50% more wealth than most of the other characters.


I can only agree with the notion that there should be no further consequences for death. Why should there be any? A PC died and gets replaced by a new one. What if the player decided that the PC is no fun for him anymore, and decided to switch, without having the PC die? For the game, it makes no difference either way. If anything, a dead PC is a roleplaying opportunity for the remaining PCs. (I fondly remember a PC death in one game, which was planned beforehand between the GM and the player in question, and led to in-character mourning after the fight. It was a world/game without resurrection.)

Death and resurrection are part of the game, otherwise, they wouldn´t be in it. If the PC doesn´t want to get resurrected and the others knew beforehand (or are retconned as such), everything is fine.

Remember the Most Important Rule: Have Fun! Being punished on a metagame level for getting killed is the opposite of fun.

The Exchange

To be honest even using Resurrection there's still a loss of 1 level, in which it can't be cleared until Restoration which requires 7th level at the minimum, not to mention another 1000 gp. If you were working out the maths..I think rolling a new character is probably a better idea.


We don't practice any kind of negative consequences for character deaths in my group. Losing a character is hard enough. As GM, I try to ensure, through encounter design, that if a PC has to fall it will happen in a way befitting a hero, therefore, most PC deaths happen at the hands of NPC villains and their cohorts, or if the PCs make a terrible mistake and need to learn from it. Still, bad things can happen. If the PCs are on death's door due to poor rolls versus something that should not be a threat, I try to keep in mind that defeat doesn't always equal death.

When death does occur we perform a little ceremony. We print out a copy of the character sheet and a information page, put them in protective sleeves, and add them to a 3-ring binder we named "Shrine of Fallen Heroes." The information page serves and an epitaph, listing the date of the game session, the name of the campaign, the name of the player, and a funny description of what transpired that lead to the death. We like to take down the binder and flip through it from time to time to laugh and reminisce old adventures. Some PCs pass on, but they are immortalized in story and laughter.


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The Goat Lord wrote:

We don't practice any kind of negative consequences for character deaths in my group. Losing a character is hard enough. As GM, I try to ensure, through encounter design, that if a PC has to fall it will happen in a way befitting a hero, therefore, most PC deaths happen at the hands of NPC villains and their cohorts, or if the PCs make a terrible mistake and need to learn from it. Still, bad things can happen. If the PCs are on death's door due to poor rolls versus something that should not be a threat, I try to keep in mind that defeat doesn't always equal death.

When death does occur we perform a little ceremony. We print out a copy of the character sheet and a information page, put them in protective sleeves, and add them to a 3-ring binder we named "Shrine of Fallen Heroes." The information page serves and an epitaph, listing the date of the game session, the name of the campaign, the name of the player, and a funny description of what transpired that lead to the death. We like to take down the binder and flip through it from time to time to laugh and reminisce old adventures. Some PCs pass on, but they are immortalized in story and laughter.

I actually have a graveyard as well. Occasionally people who are GM'ing will grab it to use them as NPC/BBEG's as they tend to be well optimized (and the group generally is as well), so published AP/adventures are pretty "bleh" most of the time and need some "spicing up".

As for out groups "death" ritual, pretty much at lower level if someone dies and we aren't going to be bringing them back, we split their gear up amongst the party. The character comes in at expected WBL, but is behind the group now.


Getting back to the original question.

If I recall, OP, the question is you want to retire your character, but your group has a (very expensive, beyond their current resources) Scroll of Ressurection. Normally. swapping your character shouldn't be an issue, but you need help as to why they wouldn't just use the scroll and bring your character back without metagaming.

Working with the GM, you could ask that the scroll is not actually consumed if the soul is unwilling to come back.

You could also say that your character was able to get some last words out before he kicked the bucket, and asked not to be brought back, saying he has clearly proven unsuited for the task at hand, and they should look for more powerful allies, while saving the scroll as well.


There's also the way the Northlands does it - the character declares themselves a Victim of Fate, and gets massive attack bonuses, massive defense penalties, and if still alive at the end of the battle, drop dead and can't be resurrected. XD


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Skylancer4 wrote:
The Goat Lord wrote:

We don't practice any kind of negative consequences for character deaths in my group. Losing a character is hard enough. As GM, I try to ensure, through encounter design, that if a PC has to fall it will happen in a way befitting a hero, therefore, most PC deaths happen at the hands of NPC villains and their cohorts, or if the PCs make a terrible mistake and need to learn from it. Still, bad things can happen. If the PCs are on death's door due to poor rolls versus something that should not be a threat, I try to keep in mind that defeat doesn't always equal death.

When death does occur we perform a little ceremony. We print out a copy of the character sheet and a information page, put them in protective sleeves, and add them to a 3-ring binder we named "Shrine of Fallen Heroes." The information page serves and an epitaph, listing the date of the game session, the name of the campaign, the name of the player, and a funny description of what transpired that lead to the death. We like to take down the binder and flip through it from time to time to laugh and reminisce old adventures. Some PCs pass on, but they are immortalized in story and laughter.

I actually have a graveyard as well. Occasionally people who are GM'ing will grab it to use them as NPC/BBEG's as they tend to be well optimized (and the group generally is as well), so published AP/adventures are pretty "bleh" most of the time and need some "spicing up".

As for out groups "death" ritual, pretty much at lower level if someone dies and we aren't going to be bringing them back, we split their gear up amongst the party. The character comes in at expected WBL, but is behind the group now.

I like your idea of using the stats of fallen heroes. I will work that into my game as well. Thank you.

Splitting the loot of a fallen hero is tricky, as it can upset the balance, but sometimes it works fine. The players in my games have sent weapons or other signature gear to the families of the fallen hero as keepsakes/heirlooms, or donated it to churches, buried it with the hero, etc. They don't often keep much for themselves.


Ic no reason to punish a player for going down , if he/she wants to change PCs , that is fine , as long as the plot allows and they dont this all the time over and over ofc.

But i do agree the party shouldnt keep the PCs items , those go to the family or whatever , the party dont get money for each death.


Your party's level three. There's really no reason to have any punishment for bringing a new guy in at such a low level. Far too easy to gimp the player in some way. Heck, no reason to even cause the loss of the scroll either. Someone will probably end up dead later anyway.

Secondly, the source restriction sounds like something that would be more trouble than it would be worth. You would have to keep track of it, especially if you have any players that make use of d20pfsrd or just don't care about sources. Lots of auditing and otherwise unnecessary bookkeeping there. And then there's the whole thing about creative freedom, etc.

Sczarni

I would allow it for the first time or as long as it makes sense. Only when I start hearing multiple times "we shouldn't waste scroll and my next character will be richer" would I start to limit party in their actions. Sometimes you don't need to act on everything, not until you notice that party is trying to abuse the given resources.

Adam

Grand Lodge

Corwin Illum wrote:

they have tools at their disposal to resurrect said character in the form of a scroll of resurrection.

The player would rather make a new PC

Tell him he can either make a new character at 1st level or use the scroll to bring his 3rd level character back. That should straighten him out quick.


never have a character be likely to die for a death. That's not good. But having a small penalty makes it less likely they'll abuse it somehow.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Our Runelords campaign was moving along pretty decently until the giants.

And then we lost two party members to Mokmurian before the sonuvagun died. (no spoilers given).

With the resources uncovered we worked out a way to recover our fallen, but there were costs involved, sure, beyond the scope of their return.

My character not only paid it in full, but paid *extra* on it, giving up her primary weapon (that she'd loved and had held onto since Skinsaw) as contrition for some other shady things she'd been doing on the side (part of the conditions for the recovery cost).

GM took that and ran with it, and something cool came out of it.

Just outright blanket 'Now pay a death tax to continue playing beyond the standard fees for death' seems not only arbitrary, but a good way of destroying group chemistry and rapport to me.


I think a small financial penalty is fine, especially for repeat offenders. Why? Well, story time:

I am playing in a 5 player game where we've suffered relatively high casualties(but the DM allows a free raise when you die at the end of the encounter if it's your first death to offset this) and honestly I'm happy when another player dies(their 2nd time) because it's a massive influx of GP to the party. We're currently 6th level nearing 7th, so when someone dies we suddenly have roughly 20k gp go to upgrading allies gear or upgrading ships, donating to the nearest church, etc. However, when 2 characters die in a relatively short time span, it's a lot of gold to inject into the party, even if you can only sell some of it for 1/2 value. And being better geared effectively raises the apl and then encounters get harder and more people die. It's a vicious cycle, potentially.

Long story short, penalties like this are needed. Level, xp, and other penalties? No, those ARE punishing the party. GP values though are an attempt to prevent WBL getting out of hand.

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