Pathfinder Player Companion: Magic Tactics Toolbox (PFRPG)

Alexander Augunas wrote:

The Mortonator wrote:

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

Since merciful spells don't cost a higher spell slot I think that it shouldn't cost any burn as well.

Wood gets merciful for free as a utility talent. To add no-cost Merciful to metakinesis with this feat would have cheapened what was originally one of the few perks of the wood element.

I've editted for enough of N. Jolly's books to know by know that would just trigger more Wood bashing. :p

Honestly though, even at 1 burn it's there when you need it and works on every blast you could potentially know. And it is a feat which is cheaper than a utility wild talent. It's still really quite good. Possibly to the point where several Wood Kin would take it over the talent.

Which is okay! It has it's ups and it's downs compared to the utility talent. For instance, you can totally reduce the cost of the feats with gather power, but that might mean you'll need to take burn to add something like empower to your blast. The wood ability costs a utility talent, but it doesn't add burn.

It gives everyone an option for dealing Nonlethal damage, and gives wood kineticists choices. That's honestly why I wrote this feat the way I did; I feel that kineticists lack meaningful feat choices beyond 7th level, and a feat that can give a kineticist a meaningful choice that isn't a new wild talent seemed pretty cool.

I agree with Mortonator and Alex; at 1 burn, it's a fun and interesting choice that's there when you need it, even potentially for phytos as mentioned (though a phyto can probably grab merciful for a feat with an extra wild talent since the level is low). There's a lot of cool opportunities with the feat, and each metakinesis on the list is a balanced and interesting option that doesn't clash with infusions, which is always a danger when introducing new metakinesis based on metamagic. Plus now you can do barbarian or bloodrager multiclass!

That gives me an idea. What if there was a "Hot-Blooded" or "Boiling Blood" Wild Talent for Pyrokineticists that lets them cast Rage on themselves?

The Drovier sounds awesome - besides trading out the Wild Shape, does it alter anything else about the base druid?

You have to take the domain option for nature bond, and a specific domain. I think that's it, don't have my copy in my hand.

Luthorne wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

Yeah, but water and air would have been good choices for the merciful wild talent version as well.

I'd rather just take Bludgeoner for those myself...a feat is cheaper than a utility wild talent.

You can't do non-lethal damage with a blast. It's not a melee weapon, and you are never considered to be "wielding" it.

Dealing nonlethal damage with a weapon doesn't use the 'wielding' language that other feats and options do, so that doesn't matter. Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats. The only thing that I missed is yes, it needs to be a melee weapon to deal nonlethal damage, so you need to use kinetic blade/fist/whip, as far as I can tell.

I just noticed feats called Acute Shot and Superior Sniper, which seem odd because they don't sound that magic-y. What do they do?

I just noticed feats called Acute Shot and Superior Sniper, which seem odd because they don't sound that magic-y. What do they do?

Acute shot gives you bonuses when you have a bonus on an attack roll with a ranged weapon due to magic, letting you deduct range penalties from your damage roll instead of your attack roll, as well as letting you sneak attack a target that has concealment (not total) if you otherwise normally could, but only a number of dice equal to the bonus to attack rolls you're getting from magic.

Superior Sniper is a rogue talent, not a feat. It allows you to get Expert Sniper from Dirty Tactics Toolbox as a bonus feat, and if you already have it, you can select any feat that lists that as a prerequisite as long as you meet the feat's other prerequisites.

I just noticed feats called Acute Shot and Superior Sniper, which seem odd because they don't sound that magic-y. What do they do?

Acute Shot applies to ranged attacks with a magic bonus and allows you to deduct range penalties from damage rather than to hit and apply sneak attack dice up to the magic bonus of the attack against targets with partial concealment.

Superior Sniper is a Rogue talent, which gives the Expert Sniper feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox... which reduces sniping penalties by 10.

So, what is a "magic bonus" anyway? That's the first time I've ever seen that term...

So, what is a "magic bonus" anyway? That's the first time I've ever seen that term...

My guess is that he means 'enhancement' bonus.

So, what is a "magic bonus" anyway? That's the first time I've ever seen that term...

I took it to mean a magic weapon 'enhancement' bonus.

"Magic bonus" is an undefined term that actually appears in the text of the Acute Shot feat. I can see wide table variation as to exactly what that phrase means. The introductory statement says "When magic aids your ranged attacks, you rarely miss."

My guess is any ranged attack that has bonuses provided to its attacks by spells?

Reverse engineerig: Anything that would be blocked by an antimagic field is a magic bonus.

Reverse engineerig: Anything that would be blocked by an antimagic field is a magic bonus.

That's certainly possible. Sneak attack dice are limited to the "magic bonus on attack rolls" so theoretically a magically generated +1 luck bonus would count.

I'm surprised to see that the discussion for the Magic Tactics Toolbox is so much less animated than for AMH. I haven't had a chance to get down to a store to check it out yet, but it seems like the new material is pretty exciting.

Is it not as good as it looks?

Also, there was a summary of the new Ninja Tricks, but I was wondering if anyone could give a bit of a description of the rest of the new Rogue Talents, ie:
Dampen Presence
Glib Facade (Advanced)
Innocent Facade
Rapid Perception
Unlock Ki (Advanced)

I'm surprised to see that the discussion for the Magic Tactics Toolbox is so much less animated than for AMH. I haven't had a chance to get down to a store to check it out yet, but it seems like the new material is pretty exciting.

Is it not as good as it looks?

I'd say that MTT is a nice solid companion volume with plenty of useful features, but nothing as 'transformative' as some of the AMH items which opened up whole new options that were previously impossible.

That and there was a weird subset of harsh criticism of the AMH which never made sense to me, but tended to make the discussions more "animated".

Also, there was a summary of the new Ninja Tricks, but I was wondering if anyone could give a bit of a description of the rest of the new Rogue Talents, ie:

Dampen Presence
Glib Facade (Advanced)
Innocent Facade
Rapid Perception
Unlock Ki (Advanced)

Dampen Presence - Gives the feat of the same name from Dungeoneer's Handbook and helps to qualify for feats which have Dampen Presence as a pre-req... which is odd, because so far as I can tell, there aren't any.

Innocent Facade - Innocence spell as a SLA once per day. Also available to Investigators.

Rapid Perception - Search for something specific as a swift rather than move action and halve penalty if target is invisible. Also available to Investigators.

Scry Slip - Diviner must succeed at a caster level check to target rogue with divination that allows a Will save. Also available to Investigators.

Superior Sniper - Gives Expert Sniper feat.

Glib Facade - Glibness spell as a SLA once per day.

Unlock Ki - Larger Ki pool & can spend 2 ki to gain skill unlocks on one skill for 1 minute.

Dampen Presence - Gives the feat of the same name from Dungeoneer's Handbook and helps to qualify for feats which have Dampen Presence as a pre-req... which is odd, because so far as I can tell, there aren't any.

Innocent Facade - Innocence spell as a SLA once per day. Also available to Investigators.

Rapid Perception - Search for something specific as a swift rather than move action and halve penalty if target is invisible. Also available to Investigators.

Scry Slip - Diviner must succeed at a caster level check to target rogue with divination that allows a Will save. Also available to Investigators.

Superior Sniper - Gives Expert Sniper feat.

Glib Facade - Glibness spell as a SLA once per day.

Unlock Ki - Larger Ki pool & can spend 2 ki to gain skill unlocks on one skill for 1 minute.

Thanks for the summary!

Hmmm... seems like a nice set of new talents. I feel like a lot of these are variations of ideas I've seen thrown around in old Rogue rework threads on the forums. Very glad to see some bard goodies available as rogue SLAs.

As far as I can remember, pinpointing invisible creatures as a swift action is totally new and pretty exciting (though to be fair, See Invisibility does away with the whole pinpointing issue).

Scry Slip and Dampen Presence seem OK, allowing you to be stealthy against higher level threats.

Unfortunately, its going to be tough to include these in many builds. They're very conditional or can be recreated with magical items (freeing up rogue talents for other things). Glib Facade is probably the coolest goody for the social/face rogue, so its no surprise that its an advanced talent. :/

Plus, it kinda feels like most of these talents fit in better with Ultimate Intrigue than with Magic Tactics...

So how exactly does Furious metakinesis work for kineticists? I'm taking it to mean you double the amount of damage dice for only 1 Burn??? For example: a 7th level Telekinetic blast would do 4d6+4+Con damage, but when enhanced by Furious metakinesis it would be 8d6+8+Con??? Am I understanding that correctly?

Or would it be 4d6+4+Con+8? Due to the fact that the blast is effectively a 4th level "spell"?

So how exactly does Furious metakinesis work for kineticists? I'm taking it to mean you double the amount of damage dice for only 1 Burn??? For example: a 7th level Telekinetic blast would do 4d6+4+Con damage, but when enhanced by Furious metakinesis it would be 8d6+8+Con??? Am I understanding that correctly?

Or would it be 4d6+4+Con+8? Due to the fact that the blast is effectively a 4th level "spell"?

Blasts are always equivalent spell level of 1/2 kineticist level, so a level 7 kineticist's blast is a level 3 spell. Furious spell adds damage equal to double the spell level, which would be 6 extra damage. Of course, presumably you combine with rage, which adds more damage from the Con. and a handy +2 on caster level checks for energy blast users

can you benefit from furious metakinesis while under the effects of a skald's raging song-inspired rage?

Faelyn wrote:

So how exactly does Furious metakinesis work for kineticists? I'm taking it to mean you double the amount of damage dice for only 1 Burn??? For example: a 7th level Telekinetic blast would do 4d6+4+Con damage, but when enhanced by Furious metakinesis it would be 8d6+8+Con??? Am I understanding that correctly?

Or would it be 4d6+4+Con+8? Due to the fact that the blast is effectively a 4th level "spell"?

Blasts are always equivalent spell level of 1/2 kineticist level, so a level 7 kineticist's blast is a level 3 spell. Furious spell adds damage equal to double the spell level, which would be 6 extra damage. Of course, presumably you combine with rage, which adds more damage from the Con. and a handy +2 on caster level checks for energy blast users

Oh yeah! I always forget that caveat on the blast levels... Thanks for the reminder, Mark, and for the clarification! You are definitely right that energy kineticists would get much more out of this feat than physical blasts.

Got to love any Ninja stuff!!

Just downloaded and skimmed this before I go to sleep. The Questioner Investigator makes me happy. Very, very happy.

For Faith Magic, should it be read as, you select a spell once you take the Discovery, or you can select a new spell each day within those restrictions? [Hoping the designer may be reading this! ^^ ]

The only thing that is a slight let-down for me is that I cannot make a hair-wrestling Cleric with the Divine Scourge archetype, but other than that, I'm pretty amazed.

HexCleric, the hype is real! :D

For Faith Magic, should it be read as, you select a spell once you take the Discovery, or you can select a new spell each day within those restrictions? [Hoping the designer may be reading this! ^^ ]

I'm reading it as the former.

Digging into the Questioner a bit more, it seems odd that it loses Alchemy and Poison Lore, but keeps Swift Alchemy, Poison Resistance, and Poison Immunity. I'm wondering if there are some printing errors.

Digging into the Questioner a bit more, it seems odd that it loses Alchemy and Poison Lore, but keeps Swift Alchemy, Poison Resistance, and Poison Immunity. I'm wondering if there are some printing errors.

Maybe they're in there to increase archetype compatibility. I seem to recall a lot of archetypes eating swift alchemy...

Gisher wrote:

Digging into the Questioner a bit more, it seems odd that it loses Alchemy and Poison Lore, but keeps Swift Alchemy, Poison Resistance, and Poison Immunity. I'm wondering if there are some printing errors.

Maybe they're in there to increase archetype compatibility. I seem to recall a lot of archetypes eating swift alchemy...

I had the same thought but all of the archetypes I could find were unstackable for other reasons. But it may have been for future comparably options.

Looking at the Questioner...does it have anything RAW preventing it from dealing with Arcane Spell Failure? I'm sure the intent is for the casting to have the same clauses as a Bard, but as far as I can see from the text they're vulnerable to it.

I'm not understanding Lore Needle (pg 17).

"A creature with a implanted Lore Needle can, up to three times a day when attempting a knowledge check, apply to that check it's bonus on any other single knowledge skill in which it is trained."

So If I have Knowledge (Engineering) of 5, but a Knowledge (Arcana) of 10 3 times a day I can use that 10 from Know (Arcana) on Know (Engineering) skill checks?

I'm not understanding Lore Needle (pg 17).

"A creature with a implanted Lore Needle can, up to three times a day when attempting a knowledge check, apply to that check it's bonus on any other single knowledge skill in which it is trained."

So If I have Knowledge (Engineering) of 5, but a Knowledge (Arcana) of 10 3 times a day I can use that 10 from Know (Arcana) on Know (Engineering) skill checks?

Correct!

Almost done with a full read through after previously giving it moderately paced skim, and I want to say that this is a really solid product. A five star review is likely forthcoming.

Standouts so far are the Dimensional Excavator alchemist archetype, the Manifold Stare mesmerist feat/bold stare improvement (for extra uses of painful stare in a round), and most of the "Magical Knowledge" section. (The Lore Needle as a bizarro thinking man's Jingasa replacement?)

I'm a little confused by the Havocker's Patron Element ability. It states it alters the witch's familiar but does not describe in what way as the text just seems to discuss alterations to the witch's patron, there isn't anything that states what happens to the familiar.

I'm a little confused by the Havocker's Patron Element ability. It states it alters the witch's familiar but does not describe in what way as the text just seems to discuss alterations to the witch's patron, there isn't anything that states what happens to the familiar.

The familiar does not gain automatic knowledge of patron spells, and it locks out any other archetype that also alters familiars.

Helvellyn wrote:

I'm a little confused by the Havocker's Patron Element ability. It states it alters the witch's familiar but does not describe in what way as the text just seems to discuss alterations to the witch's patron, there isn't anything that states what happens to the familiar.

The familiar does not gain automatic knowledge of patron spells, and it locks out any other archetype that also alters familiars.

The familiar definitely doesn't grant any patron spells, but I don't see anything which would prevent them from taking familiar archetypes.

Imbicatus wrote:

Helvellyn wrote:

I'm a little confused by the Havocker's Patron Element ability. It states it alters the witch's familiar but does not describe in what way as the text just seems to discuss alterations to the witch's patron, there isn't anything that states what happens to the familiar.

The familiar does not gain automatic knowledge of patron spells, and it locks out any other archetype that also alters familiars.

The familiar definitely doesn't grant any patron spells, but I don't see anything which would prevent them from taking familiar archetypes.

No, the familiar can take an archetype, I was saying that it stops the witch from taking a second archetype that also alters the familiar.

For example, you can't make a Bonded Havoker Witch. Bonded Witch only changes the familiar, so without the line altering familiar, you could.

No, the familiar can take an archetype, I was saying that it stops the witch from taking a second archetype that also alters the familiar.

Ah, of course. Sorry, read it wrong.

Helvellyn wrote:

I'm a little confused by the Havocker's Patron Element ability. It states it alters the witch's familiar but does not describe in what way as the text just seems to discuss alterations to the witch's patron, there isn't anything that states what happens to the familiar.

The familiar does not gain automatic knowledge of patron spells, and it locks out any other archetype that also alters familiars.

Thanks

I party withdraw my previous praise, the blood hexes are pretty bad, some of them are LOL embarrassing, like this one:

Bull’s Eye (blood Hex)

Your ranged attacks unerringly seek those you have cursed.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Dodge, Mobility, Point-Blank Shot, Shot on the Run, base attack bonus +4, Use Magic Device 1 rank.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can curse a creature you’ve dealt damage to with a ranged weapon attack since the beginning of your last turn. The target must succeed at a Reflex save, or you don’t take penalties on ranged weapon attacks against the creature for the first range increment and you ignore any bonus to the creature’s Armor Class from cover. The creature still benefits from total cover. This effect lasts for 1 minute.
Special: A shaman or witch with this blood hex can use it against a target she has damaged with any ranged attack since her last turn, and applies its benefits to any ranged attack she makes against an affected creature.

What??? For the cost of two high-ish attributes and four feats you can take a standard action to shoot someone once, then take a standard action to try (Reflex save, remember) for the rather minor benefit of removing one range increment penalty and cover bonuses, if any. And if you're not a Shaman or Witch (who would never invest in the feats) you can only do this once a day without further feat investment. I'm not saying up to a +6 to attack is bad, but when it's once per day, requires this much mediocre feat investment, and requires two rounds of actions and to have already hit them in the first place before you can get that benefit I don't know what they could have been thinking.

There are a couple others that are also worthless, but this one stood out for the amount of spittle I sprayed.

Still, the book overall is pretty good.

Just put up a mostly positive review, but I want to beat the Blood Hexes some more, I overlooked the most awful one of all.

You curse a bleeding opponent with uncertainty.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Use Magic Device 5 ranks.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can curse an enemy you’ve damaged with a melee attack in the last minute to become hesitant. The target must succeed at a Reflex save or take a –10 penalty on any initiative check it makes in the next minute.
Special: If a shaman or witch uses this blood hex, the target is unable to take a full-attack action for 1 round. This effect can be extended with the cackle hex.

Uh...is the expectation that I'm going to damage a target, cast this hex on the next round, and then somehow disengage and hope the target is going to start up a new combat with a new initiative check in the next minute?!?

Just put up a mostly positive review, but I want to beat the Blood Hexes some more, I overlooked the most awful one of all.

Hinder (Blood Hex) wrote:

You curse a bleeding opponent with uncertainty.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Use Magic Device 5 ranks.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can curse an enemy you’ve damaged with a melee attack in the last minute to become hesitant. The target must succeed at a Reflex save or take a –10 penalty on any initiative check it makes in the next minute.
Special: If a shaman or witch uses this blood hex, the target is unable to take a full-attack action for 1 round. This effect can be extended with the cackle hex.

Uh...is the expectation that I'm going to damage a target, cast this hex on the next round, and then somehow disengage and hope the target is going to start up a new combat with a new initiative check in the next minute?!?

Odd and situational, but the Witch/Shaman version makes up for it.

What Witch/Shaman would choose to do damage on round 1, cast this hex on round 2, and then hope to get this effect on round 3+ rather than use actually useful spells or hexes on rounds 1 and 2?

Blood hexes just seem poorly thought out. The activation criteria don't fit with Witch/Shaman playstyles, and the limited uses and in some cases punishing prerequisites prevent them from being useful to other classes even if the effects weren't pretty bleh.

I party withdraw my previous praise, the blood hexes are pretty bad, some of them are LOL embarrassing, like this one:

Quote:

Bull’s Eye (blood Hex)

Your ranged attacks unerringly seek those you have cursed.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Dodge, Mobility, Point-Blank Shot, Shot on the Run, base attack bonus +4, Use Magic Device 1 rank.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can curse a creature you’ve dealt damage to with a ranged weapon attack since the beginning of your last turn. The target must succeed at a Reflex save, or you don’t take penalties on ranged weapon attacks against the creature for the first range increment and you ignore any bonus to the creature’s Armor Class from cover. The creature still benefits from total cover. This effect lasts for 1 minute.
Special: A shaman or witch with this blood hex can use it against a target she has damaged with any ranged attack since her last turn, and applies its benefits to any ranged attack she makes against an affected creature.

What??? For the cost of two high-ish attributes and four feats you can take a standard action to shoot someone once, then take a standard action to try (Reflex save, remember) for the rather minor benefit of removing one range increment penalty and cover bonuses, if any. And if you're not a Shaman or Witch (who would never invest in the feats) you can only do this once a day without further feat investment. I'm not saying up to a +6 to attack is bad, but when it's once per day, requires this much mediocre feat investment, and requires two rounds of actions and to have already hit them in the first place before you can get that benefit I don't know what they could have been thinking.

There are a couple others that are also worthless, but this one stood out for the amount of spittle I sprayed.

Still, the book overall is pretty good.

I agree that a lot of feats for this are unnecessary. I think one of us is misreading this though, but still seems weird to me.

It is a standard action after you have hit with a ranged attack. If they fail their reflex save, you ignore penalties to ranged attacks against that target. Is that all ranged attack penalties? I'm confused as to why but that would make the hex better, right? Like free Deadly Aim, no penalty from iteratives, etc.

I interpreted it as the range penalty for the first range increment, but yes, I guess all penalties as long as you're in the first increment is more likely and actually powerful. Thank you for the correction.

I interpreted it as the range penalty for the first range increment, but yes, I guess all penalties as long as you're in the first increment is more likely and actually powerful. Thank you for the correction.

I can think of no instances where, if able to hit something, I would then want to take the time to make myself more easily able to hit it given the option of just trying to hit it again or debuffing it for everyone using another hex or spell.

I generally really like this book, but I agree that Blood Hexes are pretty much a non-starter.

I interpreted it as the range penalty for the first range increment, but yes, I guess all penalties as long as you're in the first increment is more likely and actually powerful. Thank you for the correction.

Oh and to correct myself, I don't think iteratives are actually penalties, your BAB is just lower... But yeah I think that's what it is saying? Since you have to be within the first range increment which suffers no ranged increment penalty makes me think it is supposed to negate other penalties.

Is there anything that would be of interest to an unarmed dragon-style punching STR-based bloodrager?

Quick Q: What are the Prereqs for Manifold Stare?

Re: bloodrager. There was some sort of spell that enhanced your fists with bone growths (and gives armor spikes), and some sorcerer/bloodrager replacements for bloodline feats or powers, but the latter are only good for blasting spells I think.

Quick Q: What are the Prereqs for Manifold Stare?

Mesmerist level 3 and you have the painful stare feature (didn't trade it away).

Sharkles wrote:

I just noticed feats called Acute Shot and Superior Sniper, which seem odd because they don't sound that magic-y. What do they do?

Acute Shot applies to ranged attacks with a magic bonus and allows you to deduct range penalties from damage rather than to hit and apply sneak attack dice up to the magic bonus of the attack against targets with partial concealment.

Superior Sniper is a Rogue talent, which gives the Expert Sniper feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox... which reduces sniping penalties by 10.

Anything that says it works for UnRogues?