Alenvire's page

To start this is not a hate thread. In fact, I can't really hate 2nd edition because I barely remember any rules. So, this is more of a change my mind please thread.

I started with D&D 2nd edition in the 90's and have gone through many different systems since then.

When second edition was about to come out, I was hyped. I had preordered all the early releases. I had played the playtests. I gave feedback and really tried to give it a chance. I even kickstartered the 2nd edition Kingmaker AP. After I got the books I lost interest. I didn't like the way combat was handled. I hated how magic was handled. I tried multiple games. I played as a GM, I also played as a player. A buddy of mine was in my party, and he was also the person who was the GM when I played. He also is a better GM then me. We tried really hard to get through the first AP of PF2 and never got through the first AP. I canceled all my subscriptions for the rule books and the AP's after that.

We were both die hard PF1 fans. We still play it. However, after support for PF1 ended it started to die off. He moved, and moved on to D&D 5th. I never did try 5th. I felt like the direction of 2nd went the wrong way.

My biggest complaint was that magic felt weak, and unbalanced. I felt like a melee did more damage then a mage except when they used one of their very limited, spell slots. And then, it only put them on par to a melee. I felt like the ... cantrips was it? The spells they were supposed to use as their go to weapons felt weak. And were significantly weaker then someone using a bow or sword. And the moment they started using magic weapons (which felt needlessly weird. Why can't I just make a +3 longsword? Instead you bought items to buff your sword right? I don't remember the exact language but it was something like a major sharpness talisman? Obviously I don't remember how it exactly worked.) it felt like magic just became a joke. Best they could do was being a buffer or using utility spells.

The other thing and this is the harder one to explain, There seemed like so many choices, which is not bad, to customize your character... However, it just felt like flavor that did not actually create a different experience. 2 fighters could be built completely different, but in the end it just felt like different bonuses, different descriptions, same small bonuses adding up to a similar roll.

To add to that, the number of actions per round being static just seemed.... Boring. I understand that you can make people stronger each level without adding any extra actions, and it was done to streamline combat, but it basically just came down to, I attack, your turn. Wow, you attack, next. And then it was just each person attack once, enemy action, each person attack once. It just drained the excitement of combat from the system. Sure, it was annoying when the monk would have to roll out 6 attacks, but it still felt more fulfilling.

Now, I know that I probably have some misconceptions, and I probably did not understand the rules as well as I thought I did. But, there was 2 Seasoned GM's. Both of us poured over the rules, debated and came on here to ask questions to make sure we were doing things right. I'm here to ask your experience and perception as people who probably spent a lot more time then I have on 2nd, what I got wrong, How it has changed for the better, or how the game improves after the first few levels I experienced.

Remember, I have hundreds of sessions in 1st. I love the growth and the variety of 1st. I understand that the characters become more interesting after the first few levels, but, I did not see that in 2nd based on reading the rules and talking about it. I like high magic, 1st had that, 2nd felt more like high magic world/items low magic characters. My greatest sadness with second, was that a lot of the magical wonders of Golarion was not something you could realistically replicate with 2nd rules. For example, could you even play through the Ruins of Azlant AP in 2nd edition with the same characters you would have used in the 1st edition AP with the 2nd edition rules?

This is not a hate thread, I hope that the experiences and suggestions you put here will convince me to reread the rules, and maybe keep a eye out for something you all say here that I missed with my experience. I REALLY want to WANT to play the 2nd edition kingmaker I paid way too much for. lol

For now, I respectfully request all of my subscriptions canceled.

Pathfinder Adventure Path
Pathfinder Lost Omens
Pathfinder Rulebook

I am a long time supporter but currently find myself in a situation where I can no longer afford these subscriptions for the foreseeable future. Thank you for your assistance.

From what I can see, you don't need to be a full caster, just something that gives you a cast spell ability. For example, the rogue minor magic. As long as it does not turn into a 'innate spell' or something like that.

The only rules I found was on activating a item where it talks about if it says cast a spell, you need a spell caster ability to 'cast a spell'. All of this is purely off my memory.

I'm wondering how a rogue could activate a scroll, or a fighter a wand. Is it just going MC or am I right and anything that gives you some sort of casting ability that is not just a innate spell gives access to scrolls and wands? (not staves since they have their own rules for regenerating spell points) Does this also mean that you can use a 10th level scroll at level 1? I'm sure I missed something and someone here will be able to quickly point me in the right direction.

I know I am just missing it somewhere, but, I noticed that precious materials like silver weapons can only have magic upgrades to a certain level based on 'grade' of that item. Where is the rules for steel and what can steel be up to? Are they unlimited and its just the precious materials quality that determines how good of magic they can have?

So I came across a weird scenario that probably won't happen too often.

Player 1 wants to be a goblin, and chooses Warpriest. Not being one to dissuade a player from what they want I explained the weaknesses and what they have to be aware of while playing.

What I did not realize is exactly how bad a character will be who chooses a conflicting race vs class. The max a goblin cleric can start with in wis is 14. And, if optimized you can have one stat at 16 as your high stat not in your primary stat.

With the RAW you can't put your free stat into your races negative stat. So, it starts at 8 and you can only put 3 more +abilities into it for a grand total of 14. Now, I know they get a stat increase at 5 and 10 to get to that 18 threshold but that is a pretty rough early levels for a 14. I explained as a warpriest she will have to focus on buffs and avoid anything that targets enemies and stick to melee.

This works for her character concept of a Gorum goblin warpriest. But, I can see it being a big hindrance for some of the other classes. Halfling fighter for example.

Was this intended to punish people who don't go optimized or just a non QA side effect. In pf2 a +1 status bonus is considered really good with a +3 being godly. So a -2 is considered a big negative.

Whats your thoughts on this? Should I consider not following the rules and let them put the +2 into the negative stat for ancestry if they want to play a non optimized race/class? Or just let them struggle as PF2 intended?

I made this thread I thought earlier but it vanished. Is there rules on sunder? Is sundering just gone? Can you now only target unattended items?

I'm just curious if anyone has a good reason for why they do purchases and cancellations in such a old and outdated manner?

You can sign up for a subscription. Add to a cart. Purchase online. But, when a order needs to be modified or canceled or a subscription canceled they have no better way to go about it then to email or post in the customer service section.

Don't get me wrong, I can see a reason for say messed up orders that were shipped wrong or damaged, but, why can't we get the basics of amazon or other online retailers where you can cancel with a few clicks online if its not been processed yet? Cancel a subscription now, and not when a customer service rep is available.

I never really cared or noticed until right now. Customer service is weeks behind due to unforeseen reasons. However, all its doing is causing them to get even further behind due to the fact they will now have to fix all the stuff that goes wrong with how far behind they are.

Paizo Customer service has always been great, but, that does not change the fact we should have basic online control of our orders/changes/cancellations.

I know this became more of a rant then a question, but, the question is still there. Anyone know why they don't have a more up to date online system?

I did a order for the lost omens books. Is it possible to get the two lost order pre orders canceled so that I can instead pick them up with a subscription? I would much appreciate it. Thank you.

Let me know if you need anything from me to assist in this. I could not see a way to cancel the unfulfilled orders from my account and just pick up the subscription instead

So this post is going to be fairly straight forward. I pre ordered 2nd edition. I already obtained the first wave of books. Good deal. I paid full price. Here is where I am confused. Why is amazon offering the books at a sizable discount. Why should I pre order from paizo.com the rest of the books that are releasing, when I can save... A lot.

Normally my thought process follows the fact that on Paizo.com you get the PDF's with them as a bonus with no cost. Except you DON'T get them this time around and have to purchase them separately.

Are the Lost omen books, and those coming after, coming with PDF's, or am I just spending extra money by using Paizo with the only benefit being maybe a few weeks early for the books? I prefer to support the developers of products but I like most like to save money.

This post is more about being surprised about Paizo allowing themselves to be undercut so much when they would receive more profits from their own site then from 3rd parties like amazon.

Will check back in the morning. Good Luck and Have fun with Pathfinder 2 everyone! I love it.

*****EDIT***** I realize now you get the PDF only with a subscription. Still, why get it from here? Why not get the pdf here and get the book cheaper?

My question is whether or not there will be the same levels of technology in this version of pathfinder? I know there was a lot of grief in many groups about having gunslingers and Numeria's level of technology. Love it or hate it, I'm wondering if anyone has seen a spoiler as to whether they are going to change some aspects of the world like Numeria and Guns?

I read that there would be a world shaping event that would push Golarion into a new age and that is where 2nd edition will start. I have no idea if this is true or not. Is this going to be just a complete re imagine or is there a story reason for a change to the world? Also, I have not been able to keep up on 2nd edition or paizocon so if you have some useful links that you think someone could read to get more hyped for the world I would appreciate it.

I have pre ordered the core and bestiary and went all in on the kingmaker remake along with my AP subscription for second edition. Is there a must have out there that others have seen? I did not grab the adventures that are offered or the world guide. Honestly never purchased a world guide before other then the one focusing on technology.

I am trolling through the boards but there is a lot of info and specific questions about reveals going on so its hard to find out general info for 2nd edition. Thanks for your time.

So after my party did the first AP for 2nd edition we all lost all interest. It just did not feel good in our hands. I know there has been updates but I honestly lost so much interest in it that I could not keep up to date with the changes.

So, Now that the launch is announced for august 1st What is peoples current opinion of 2nd edition as we know of it and review of it. And if you would put whether you had a similar first impression and if it has changed and why, or if not I would appreciate that. My own lack of interest is making it hard to sell it to my players.

Return of the rune lords is possibly my groups final AP for pathfinder 1.0. I would like build suggestions for the most OP build you can think of. Whether it be be Wizards with simulacrum or what have you. Give me some OP build ands powers/spells. I want my group to not fear the rune lords but make the rune lords fear them.

I know I could just weaken everything, but, I want my group to be able to use some of the suggestion here to truly find POWER. So that they know they overpowered the rune lords by sheer force of will... and by the rules.

I know the group will have a arcane bloodline sorcerer cause the players guide suggested it. And a Druid. The other 2 are undecided. What can the sorcerer and druid do, and what can 2 other players do to truly over power the campaign while playing off the 2 decided characters strength/weaknesses.

*edit for many typos

I did not realize my payment method was expired and we have been so focused on the AP we are playing right now I did not realize I missed a couple months of shipments.

My question is, if I reset up my subscription will it kick in for the AP's that I missed, or will it only send the current and upcoming APs. I don't really want to re subscribe just to receive a AP half way through the Current AP.

Is there a way to give my current card billing info and have it send 133 (which I missed) in addition to 134 (which probably was already sent to subscribers) or would I have to pay full price for 133 and its pdf version?

I want to know what would happen if I give my current billing card before I supply it. Would hate to only get 134 and not 133, or worse, not have it kick in till 135

I have a question about exactly how something works. When you take the feat basic wizard spellcasting it says you get spells at certain levels. However, then it turns around and says your spell level is only half that of your level.... How? Am I missing something? A level 3 spells normally obtained at 5 is gained at level 8. Is it talking when you heighten? So I cant make a level 1 spell level 3 until level 10? What kinda wacky stuff is that if it is. Overly complicated for no reason.

If I am wrong, Please, PLEASE help me out and explain with what it means. Would love page numbers that back up what your saying too.

Exact phrase is,
"Even though you can cast spells, the spell level of your
cantrips and arcane powers is half your level rounded up."

edit for typo

My group and I wonder why the hate for spells. I would say spells are generaly the same usefulness but you have maybe a third of the spells per day of 1e. Why? I'm not asking for opinions as to why you like or disagree but why it has been needed so hard? Is it now a low to mid magic world? Do they want more downtime? Or is it just a random DESIGN decision. My party realized a cleric healer is about the same but not much of a buffer anymore because of the extremely limited spells per level. Or am I missing something. Like attribute to spell slots or something. Cause heightened cantrips don't cut it.

So far I like it.

I'm serious I do. However it is far from perfect. Action economy on most classes is terrible. Let's take the paladin cause I don't want to tear apart every class. Is lay on hands supposed to be used in combat? If not why add in the the ability to warded touch. It removes manipulate but unless your running fist and board your still taking a attack on opportunity to use it. Because you have to pick your sword back up or unsheath it. Are paladins only 2 handers now?

There is a lot of messy math in this edition. It's like paizo added systems onto pre existing systems. I like the concept but there is a lot of QA needed. Familiars are a waste of class feat. Sorcerers for something other then arcane at low levels are asking to explode. At level 1 a enemy with plus 10 to attack Crits first attack for death. (Dying) my group is going to continue on and report back to paizo when we finish. But I see a lot of problems with the game that probably should not have made it to playtest.

Anyone else found major problems others should playtest? I would like to know what others have found that are big problems so we all can try and test it.

I really like the concept but I in no way endorse this YET to go to print.

Also feel free to let me know if you disagree on a point and I will test it again.

I can find nothing on spell failure chance. For example a Wizard multiclass archetype to fighter can use up to heavy armor. Is spell failure removed or did I just miss it? A page number would be appreciated if this was mentioned in any way.

So with buffs you get from headband of vast intellect +2 or greater you get 1 (or more) skill point after 24 hours of wearing it. What of the reverse? Do you lose skill points? If I have a ring of the beast +4 Dex, -2 INT or have just taken -6 int from a debuff and cant heal it off before the next day, would I lose skill points?

If so, do I decide where they come from? The GM? Is there any official rule I just can't find somewhere? Thanks all for the help.

I had my package dropped off today. It was in a white post office envelope. I could see damage through the front. When I opened it, approximately 20% of the back left upper corner was ripped through and gone. Its missing at least 5 pages. Is there anything that can be done on your end or do I need to buy a new one. This sucks. We are in the middle of this AP and I have a FUBAR Book.

I got a new CC and it froze my AP book for october. It gave me the option to re run the card, but, after updating the card it took away that option. Now it lists book 3 as payment declined. How do I get that to re activate for october?

So I purchased the Ultimate Psionics color book bundle on the 20th of February 2016 and it still lists the book as pending. I'm curious as to how long I should expect it to be pending, and then how much longer before I have the book?

Would hate to go through a whole campaign with just the PDF.

Any Info would be appreciated.

*edit* Under the order confirmations it claims that I bought it twice. Could you check to make sure I wont get charged twice or end up with 2 books. Thanks.