Int Debuffs (not natural low) and skill points.


Rules Questions


So with buffs you get from headband of vast intellect +2 or greater you get 1 (or more) skill point after 24 hours of wearing it. What of the reverse? Do you lose skill points? If I have a ring of the beast +4 Dex, -2 INT or have just taken -6 int from a debuff and cant heal it off before the next day, would I lose skill points?

If so, do I decide where they come from? The GM? Is there any official rule I just can't find somewhere? Thanks all for the help.


i do not know for sure. but something like this would add too much complexity to the game. which skills lose the points how many from each skill etc. so i will say it does not make u have less skill points for simplisitys sake.


Alenvire wrote:

So with buffs you get from headband of vast intellect +2 or greater you get 1 (or more) skill point after 24 hours of wearing it. What of the reverse? Do you lose skill points? If I have a ring of the beast +4 Dex, -2 INT or have just taken -6 int from a debuff and cant heal it off before the next day, would I lose skill points?

If so, do I decide where they come from? The GM? Is there any official rule I just can't find somewhere? Thanks all for the help.

Actually that is poorly worded and can be easily interpreted to have the wrong meaning.

If you have been using something that gives you an int adjustment for 24 hours or more your int score is treated as the new value the next time you level (and the next time you prepare spells). It doesn't cause your existing pool of skill points to increase or shrink other than what happens when you level.

So if you happened to get cursed with -6 int you probably want to get rid of that before you level up. Or memorize spells. And if your int falls below 3 you can't use language, so you can't speak or cast spells (with a verbal component). Like any stat drain, you want to get this cured quick!

Anyways, the short answer is no.


Meirril wrote:
Alenvire wrote:

So with buffs you get from headband of vast intellect +2 or greater you get 1 (or more) skill point after 24 hours of wearing it. What of the reverse? Do you lose skill points? If I have a ring of the beast +4 Dex, -2 INT or have just taken -6 int from a debuff and cant heal it off before the next day, would I lose skill points?

If so, do I decide where they come from? The GM? Is there any official rule I just can't find somewhere? Thanks all for the help.

Actually that is poorly worded and can be easily interpreted to have the wrong meaning.

If you have been using something that gives you an int adjustment for 24 hours or more your int score is treated as the new value the next time you level (and the next time you prepare spells). It doesn't cause your existing pool of skill points to increase or shrink other than what happens when you level.

So if you happened to get cursed with -6 int you probably want to get rid of that before you level up. Or memorize spells. And if your int falls below 3 you can't use language, so you can't speak or cast spells (with a verbal component). Like any stat drain, you want to get this cured quick!

Anyways, the short answer is no.

you are wrong about everything you said basically.

headbands of vast int are retroactive i have no idea where you got this "as you level" thing you keep talking about but that is absolutely not how it works in pathfinder.

This intricate gold headband is decorated with several small blue and deep purple gemstones.

The headband grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Intelligence of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer’s total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.


vhok so what is your stance on my question. Yes, I lose random skills? Or no it would stay at what it is. I Was not getting into how the headband works because its not the question. I already knew all that. I even retrain my knowledge skill for the auto max skill points from the headbands.

The question is what happens when you have a constant -int debuff going on?

I am making a ninja with 10 int. Would the ring of beasts +4str -2 int version take my skills from 8/level down to 7/level and seeing that he starts at level 8 does that mean his 8 skill points need to go away? And how.

*just realized the ring is a 1/day thing. I'm still curious about the answer for say a curse or whatever that would lower int*-edit


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Your skill ranks are unaffected by a mere penalty or ability damage, but ability drain is another story.

Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.

For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

[...]

Intelligence: Damage to your Intelligence score causes you to take penalties on Intelligence-based skill checks. This penalty also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence.

[...]

Ability Drain: Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. Ability drain can be healed through the use of spells such as restoration.

I know of no guidance for how to tell which skill ranks go away in the case of ability drain.


There are no written rules to handle this that I'd know about, so it is likely a GM call.

Losing skill points is already bad enough, so I'd allow the player to pick. I would insist however, that he takes the exact skills again should he ever get rid of the cursed item to prevent a free reallocation.

Another way would be to remove the newest ones.


If its ability damage or just a penalty or debuff to int no you will not lose skill points, if its ability drain you will lose skill points. As for choosing which ones go away when you get effected by drain that would be up to the player.


My understanding was the same as Meirril's. Headbands are not retroactive aside from the skills granted by the band.

From the FAQ:

Headband of Vast Intelligence: If I wear this item, do I get retroactive skill ranks for my Int increase in addition to the skill ranks associated with the item?
No. The skill associated with the magic item represents the "retroactive" skill ranks you'd get from the item increasing your Intelligence. You don't get the item's built-in skill ranks and another set to assign however you want.


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Headbands don't actually give you skill points to spend per se.

They grant you free skill ranks in specific skills (determined by the manufacture of the headband). It doesn't actually affect the number of skill points you have to allocate.

So it's not retroactive, because it doesn't actually grant skill points.

In any event, Fuzzy Wuzzy is correct. Only ability drain (not damage or a penalty) will affect your skill ranks because drain actually changes your ability score.


headbands don't even give you more skill points towards your leveling ammount per say. just the skills built into it. but it does give you your full hd into that skill

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