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Gloves, Charlatan
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th
Slot hands; Price 8000 gp;
Weight -
Description
These gleaming white cotton gloves, devoid of embellishment or decoration, grant incredible skill at manipulating small objects. When wearing both gloves, the wearer gains the ability to use the Sleight of Hand skill as though trained, and gives a +10 bonus to all Sleight of Hand checks. Further, immediately after the wearer performs a Sleight of Hand check to hide or palm an item, she may activate the gloves by squeezing the held item, a free action, which instantly transfers the object from one glove to the other and does not allow any observers to note where the item went. The gloves function differently when two individuals each wear one of the pair and are within 100 feet of each other. Wearing one glove of the set, an individual may squeeze a held item as a move action. This instantly transfers a held item weighing no more than 1 lb., such as a potion, magic item, or small weapon, to appear instantly in the other glove. A pair of Charlatan Gloves functions only with its own mate. When wearing one of the gloves, no other glove or item can be used in the wearer's hand slot.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, prestidigitation, dimension door; Cost 4000 gp
It's an auto-success Sleight of Hand bonus. You'll pretty much always succeed with a +10 bonus if you're even marginally interested in investing ranks in that skill. Personally, I think this is a designer oversight and should be scaled back.
Meanwhile, the ranged transference of items from one glove to another is the item's greatest power. Obviously, you can control a battlefield more effectively in this way by passing objects over to your ally without having to contend with navigating up to 100 feet separating you. So, a skilled rogue, for instance could Stealth his way behind a villain, pickpocket his best item (maybe a wand or something), and then transfer back to the party wizard. Or, a frontline fighter could benefit from any of the others in sending him a timely healing potion. Or, someone skilled in Improved Steal could snag something to take it away from an opponent and then will it far across the battlefield to an ally. Personally, I think they need to limit this power to a certain number of uses/day. At-will goes a bit too far, especially at this price.
But, bottom line, there's some interesting tactical choices this item could enable. It's like a teleport object (which ought to be in the spell requirements), but you can only move it 100 feet to your buddy. Not completely game shattering. It's somewhat innovative. I think the gloves probably aren't priced high enough (and certainly not with a +10 skill bonus). Maybe this is a designer who could learn some restraint over the course of the competition? They've already applied themselves to learning the template (though they still need commas in their price/cost and need to alphabetize their spell names). They also need to realize references to their own item in a wondrous item description need to be lowercase and italicized.
Vote to Keep.
It's a +10 bonus to a skill that will likely already be maxed out by the kind of character that will wear the gloves.
It's a perfect way to steal something and shift the loot away fast enough that even if caught the thief can plausibly deny wrongdoing.
I do not recommend that you vote for this designer.
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I kinda like this, in fact I like it a lot. The white gloves is perhaps a bit cliche and too imported from our real world of magicians rather than from a magical world. But the powers are fun and limited and provide interesting opportunities. Once again, I will say that wondrous items are often at their best when they play with rules rather than just conveying spell effects. Nice work. Some shortfalls, of course. The +10 is too high, but that's not fatal.
Keep.
Why make it a +10 skill bonus when all the other Core Rulebook permanent skill items are +5 (ok, except for the robe of eyes, but that costs 120,000 gp)? Did you have to out-cool them?
Transferring the item magically should still give the viewer a chance to notice something about your other hand... if you zip a potion from your left hand to your right hand, a skilled observer should have a chance to notice that your right hand went from open to clenched, or from clenched to holding something.
I like the utility of transferring items to your buddies in combat. This needs to say what happens if the targeted wearer is already holding something in that gloved hand.
Based on that third power, I vote "keep," but this designer needs to step it up a notch.
Welcome to the Top 32!
I looked at this entry first, because the comma usage in the name grabbed my attention. After all, I do like to wear my robes, monk.
Like the other judges, I do have a few concerns (+10 bonus, price, no chance for an observer to spot a transfer, unlimited usage). Perhaps the skill bonus could have been better explained by/attributed to the teleportation effect.
However, the third power is a real winner. When I do get the chance to play, I enjoy playing party enablers and/or chess masters. More than one of my characters would love the ability transfer rings, potions, keys, written messages, wands, or the party's only dagger capable of defeating the villain's DR.
Pay attention to the noted concerns in future rounds and make sure to wow us with your organisation. Good luck!
So, we have one function that’s flavorful but kind of annoying/maybe broken in practice, and one function that’s tactically useful but feels a little off in terms of flavor.
The appeal of this to me is as an item that the characters find and need to figure out a use for – a classic weird fantasy object. It’s even better if they find it when they’re poor and can’t identify it easily, and have to figure out its powers by playing around with it. And there are many applications. For instance, I can imagine crafty players having a sneaking thief inside a building passing messages to friends outside, etc.
However, I feel like the way the item is written kind of gives the game away – it tells people to split up the gloves, when that’s something I want them to have the fun of figuring out for themselves. As such, I’d prefer to see a description with only one function that works both ways, and to lose the sleight of hand bonus (which will constrain the way they think about the item).
What I like:
I'm inclined to like 'charlatan' anything. It's one of those words that I always enjoy and actually try and make use of in non-role playing life. Given the way these items work, I do like that you took the time to spell out the limitations (they only work in the pairs they were created in, and someone can't make use of a second glove item even if they're Michael Jacksoning this one.)
What I love:
Initially I was underwhelmed; what I was reading was a skill bonus item with a fluff effect. (Because magically jumping an item from one hand to the other generally has no real game effect.) Then I got to the next line about how it could be used by two people at once and my whole opinion changed. That turns this into one of those neat, do-it-yourself, clever little 'how can I use this?' items. I'm already coming up with possibilities; having the rogue break into a top story window and send items down to the non-stealthy party members below; having a non-melee character stand back in combat and keep sending potions through to the fighter as needed; the possibilities are endless.
What needs a little sumptin' sumptin'...
The price on this feels off to me. And in a completely opposite way than it does to the other judges- it actually feels a little high rather than low. Here's the thing, the 'keeper' ability of the item is zapping things back and forth to your buddies. The +10 bonus is gravy- so gravy that I'd actually eliminate it entirely (or maybe just have it be a standard +2 masterwork item bonus) and then have this just be about teleporting little bitty items around. I'm not actually doing any pricing calculations here, and I'm sure someone who comes after me will do so and point out that my gut instinct is completely off, but right now for the effect this feels like a bit much gold. (Not that 8,000 is a lot, I just look at the effect and feel like paying half that.) Of course, there is no limit on how many objects you can teleport daily, so that maybe adjusts the price back upwards; maybe there should be a limit on that. Or at least on teleporting over a distance and keep the fluff 'back and forth between your own hands' unlimited.
All in all...
My concerns are pretty minor. Like everyone else, apparently, I think you overindulged a little with the +10 bonus, but leaving that aside this is a neat little item that really makes me want to throw it to some players and see what they'd do with it. (Or own a pair myself and make the DM rue the day he put them in my hands.) Congratulations and welcome to RPG Superstar!
Theses are awesome, maybe its because I play lots of rogues and wizards (but not lots of thieves) but these really have all sorts of fun implications.
They're definitely going into my personal games.
Good Job, and good luck on the next round!
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The Sleight of Hand bonus is gravy as others mentioned. The transference of objects between two individuals is the real interesting application of this wondrous item. I could see so much potential using these gloves in this format. In fact, I could see making use of multiple pairs of these gloves in an adventuring party to be able to pass along objects among each other at a distance.
But something must be explained as to what would happen if someone is attempting to transport an item to another individual whose hand may already be occupied by an object.
The other interesting potential use for this is if you have a pair of these gloves that have a similar appearance with a pair of gloves that are non-magical and give one of each to another individual. Assuming the unsuspecting individual is not aware of its properties, someone could potentially pass along something into his hand that he is unprepared to receive with the potential of putting him at risk or at harm. I don't read where the unsuspecting wear could refuse the item from appearing in his hand. Devious.
The idea is nice but the price is wrong.
First, the bonus is untyped. Objects granting bonus to skills usually give competence bonuses.
Second +5 (competence) bonus costs 2500 gp, +10 (competence) bonus costs 10000 gp. It's all around the core rolebook.
A reasonable price would be around 15000 gp (and the bonus should be competence).
What many of you may have missed though, is that you have to wear both gloves to gain the bonus to the skill: doing so prevent you from using the most important ability, and this is why I would not price it any higher than 15000 gp.
Don't get me wrong, I may have my eyebrows raised at a couple of mechanical issues but I like the idea and I'm happy it got through the selection. I don't know why, since there are a lot of cool(er) objects this year, but I'm interested in what this particular designer will do in the next challenge.
I'm a fan of this one and think that this is very RPGSS. I really like the transference power and the tactical/teamwork potential it can bring to a game (see Neil Spicers first post). The bonus should be typed (competence) and scaled down to +5, and the price is too cheap, but its such a cool item. Its one I'd look at as a player so yeah I'm a fan.
Well done mate and all the best for next round.
Asides from the balance issue of the price and skill thing, this is a really cool battlefield controller thing. I also like how you have to plan it ahead of time, and use up a second party member's glove slot as well.
Ultimately though, it's that +10 bonus and auto-pass on the transferring an item that brings it down though, because you're rarely going to be using both effects at once - more likely either one or the other. So, adding in a restriction for one use (presumably to lower the cost) is like saying "this might be a +10 longsword, but it only costs 3gp because it can only be used by left-handed chaotic-good barbarians with 12 int and are named Steve."
So, you have a great, fun kernel in there, but I don't know if you'll have the rules-mojo to make it through the next round. Prove me wrong, will you?
I really like this: it's one of my favourites.
I agree with those above that the skill bonus is too high. I'd even say it's unnecessary. The transference power is what makes them - not just transference to another creature, but even just between hands. I could see myself coming up with all sorts of zany uses for that power during play. In my opinion, the very best wondrous items immediately open your mind to their possibilities, and have variable uses at the table.
I'm really looking forward to your next submission.
I like it. As some have pointed out, it needs some work. But I love the simplicity. Purpose-wise, I like it for the exact reason Ryan seems to dislike it :)
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Thanks so much to the judges and commenters for this feedback. I am enraged with glee at making the 32. I've read and seen I have some stiff competition, so I'll be brief here before I get back to working on Round 2.
On seeing the responses, I agree it needs to be tighter. As was noted immediately, +10 on SoH is too high, and the design is off-balance for it.
I appreciate all the critique on this design, and I welcome more. I hope to respond more substantially soon.
And congratulations to all my fellow 2012 32!
I also really like the idea of this magic item. It fits with some of the co-op feats that were introduced in the APG (if memory serves) and encourages players to work together more effectively.
I agree that the cost is low for the +10. It could be possible to give lesser and greater versions of this item, since dimension door scales nicely with CL.
Hope this is helpful, good luck with the rest of the competition.
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I like the potential utility that I'm being offered with this item.
The issues with the untyped bonus and price have already been well addressed.
I find myself agreeing with Sam's suggestion to avoid explicitly defining the option of two different characters each wearing one glove. It might be enough to define the ability (teleport) and the range and leave it to the players to figure it out.
You hit on an excellent concept here. Best of luck with the rest of the contest!
I'm definitely not digging the visual on the white gloves. Would go with +5 instead of +10. Also thought they would help with disable device from the first line but that doesn't really work with the theme. If these were common items I can see wizards and others coming up with devices to keep there items from being yanked. Not sure most fighters have a hand open to catch these teleported healing potions that people are talking about so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think I'd add line of sight to that 100ft.
Cool idea. Good luck.
Hey Joshua, congratulations! I'm making the rounds on everybody's items (although, I should probably be writing an organization...), so here goes!
What I Like
This is one of my favorite items this year. It really shines as a team item, and making "Charlatan Glove Chains" would be a great way of transporting items long distances very quickly (as Urizen mentioned).
This is so crunchy. I love it. It has so many combat and roleplaying applications it makes my head spin.
Also, I actually like the magician-y feel of them.
Needs Improvement
I'd say you should be able to wear each glove on either hand (by turning it inside out?), so people can still use their dominant hand to hold a sword, or the like.
I'd also like to reiterate the need to specify what happens if the person is already holding something. And what if they have their fist clenched, so as to not receive anything?
How I Feel About You as an Opponent
You might be scary. I'll have to watch out for you. :)
These gloves make me want to adventure north and challenge the first NPC we come across to a "one-on-one" snowball fight. But seriously these gloves are great, with a few minor glitches I believe the judges covered already. The sleight of hand thing is over powered and, (this is nitpicky, but a rule), your required spells are supposed to be in alphabetical order, WOOP! I don't know why anybody would have issues about them resembling real world magician gloves, I actually dig that kind of cleverness, it totally adds to the flavor...it also makes me want to take a few ranks in perform-dance so I can moon walk and throw "magic dust" all over my adoring fans...those of legal age, of course.
After some minor edits these gloves should definitely get an honored place in a Pathfinder book someday. I'll definitely be adding them to my game.
All and all an excellent job Josh, I can't wait to see what you come up with in the coming rounds.
I think this is such a great idea! I put this in my Top 5 post, hands down! I'm going to incorporate this item into my next campaign.
Good luck in the next round, Joshua!
The beginning scared me.
I really recommend "running through the numbers" a little bit, because I'd think if you did the 'no fail' aspect of the skill boost would jumped out at you. For example, cloak of the elvenkind seems to offer a more modest skill boost. But does it really? Having a +2 Dex modifier at 1st level is quite reasonable and if you add +5 to Stealth from the cloak you end up with a +7 Stealth Roll. So what? Well, how high of a Perception do you think a creature suitable for 1st level is going to have? And the example scales. A +5 skill boost is almost always going to be very favorable against an opposed roll at any CR.
So.. +5 is a pretty nice skill boost. +10 is unnecessary.
and does not allow any observers to note where the item went
That absolutism also makes me uncomfortable with the item.
Your shared power with two people wearing the gloves is really what saved this item for me. It's creative and innovative, and you just cannot discount that.
*******
Congratulations!
Take the constructive feedback, and move forward. All that matters now is that you made it!
Run those numbers, and we'll look forward to your organization next round!
Jim Groves more or less summed up my feelings on this item, but rather than just favoriting his post, I wanted to drop a quick line and say that I, too, really like this! (Scale back that bonus to sleight of hand, though. Wow.)
Congratulations Joshua,
I think the battlefield control aspect needs my pcs to explore it, though I think the item as a whole needs work. I am sure my sorcerer will want his imp to have one glove (and I thought he could not get that invisible wand-wielding familiar any more annoying :). Remember to think a step or two ahead of devious players for your other rounds. Nice job and good luck.
Congratulations on making the top 32, and good luck further on. Time is drawing a little short for long and full comments, so I'll be as swift as I can manage, while saying a few things.
Analysis
Name/The First Impression: Why "Gloves, Charlatan" rather than "Charlatan Gloves"? An item with other name already exists? I don't bother checking. But it looks weird to me.
Sleight of Hand is a fitting glove thing to do, and suitably charlatan. So nothing much here.
Template: You'll want to put "," in your prices at the thousand change, like this: 8,000. You'll want to have the item name as charlatan gloves in the actual text. So, you could use a little more attention to detail.
Description: I think your language has some space for improvements on clarity, but I just don't have time to check right now. Try to focus what you write and look for excessive words and phrases, that's the best I can say on the spot. I don't know if that will help.
Effects: +10 is too much, as has been said. The dimension door based sharing is neat, put could be abused. None of these things have quite enough amazement-effect for me. The sharing is somewhat innovative though, so you're definitely on to something.
Good luck.
Again, this is a magic item that clever player characters could accomplish so much with, both in and out of combat. To me, that's what really makes this item, the possibilities for creativity it engenders.
I can only imagine what the local thieves' guild would do with these things... Tremendous fun both for players and for the DM.
Great stuff!
This is a fun item. I prefer design that deals with the world of the narrative and then backs that narrative effect up with rules, rather than items that were clearly designed for a mechanical effect and have only perfunctory flavor tacked on. If my PC identified these gloves, my first thoughts would be about the great cons and battlefield manipulations I could pull off. I wouldn't be thinking in rulespeak, and that means the item is doing its job of making the game a little more wondrous.
I agree that the +10 is rather high. I made a similar mistake with my own item this year. My advice to posterity: Listen to Jim Groves and run the numbers. DCs are not always what you think they are.
At this price, these gloves are in danger of becoming a no-brainer for higher-level characters, so I'd suggest a usage limit. Powers that scale so effectively to higher levels really need to be reined in on uses-per-day, otherwise their power level becomes too variable over time to map properly to a static price.
Cool item, overall. Good luck going forward.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
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Wow, Joshua, this is very cool! You covered all the possibilities with the two gloves, and made something that will be a lot of fun at the table.
I'm looking forward to seeing your organization on Tuesday. Good luck!
I think most of the pros and cons of this item have been said already. I'm looking at it wondering if there's a way I could use it to slip something inimical to a bad guy into his hand, though it looks like that'd be pretty tough.
Still, I could totally see a bad guy sending a minion in to talk to the PCs and then suddenly have have something with some sort of delayed effect (or even an inhaled poison) showing up among them. Heh heh.
It's actually the latter part of this item that intrigues me. Being able to teleport an item from one person to another (even though it's small) is really cool! It's one of those things that gets your mind thinking about all the roleplaying and tactical possibilities it might have. Good job!
The issues have been explored thoroughly but I have to say I'm a fan of the theme. The combat utility is great as is the option of tactically teleporting items into diplomacy situations.
What I really like is the conjuring trick opportunities. I think there's a lot of scope for messing around with bardic performances or causing mayhem in classic tavern scenes. It's just plain fun and that counts for a lot.
Ooo, very nice. I like the Sleight of Hand trickery, especially working untrained, but the passing items within 100 feet if you and a friend each wear one glove is just cool! Could see a lot of my more theatrical characters with a pair of these.
Gloves, Charlatan
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th
Slot hands; Price 8000 gp;
Weight -
Description
These gleaming white cotton gloves, devoid of embellishment or decoration, grant incredible skill at manipulating small objects. When wearing both gloves, the wearer gains the ability to use the Sleight of Hand skill as though trained, and gives a +10 bonus to all Sleight of Hand checks. Further, immediately after the wearer performs a Sleight of Hand check to hide or palm an item, she may activate the gloves by squeezing the held item, a free action, which instantly transfers the object from one glove to the other and does not allow any observers to note where the item went. The gloves function differently when two individuals each wear one of the pair and are within 100 feet of each other. Wearing one glove of the set, an individual may squeeze a held item as a move action. This instantly transfers a held item weighing no more than 1 lb., such as a potion, magic item, or small weapon, to appear instantly in the other glove. A pair of Charlatan Gloves functions only with its own mate. When wearing one of the gloves, no other glove or item can be used in the wearer's hand slot.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, prestidigitation, dimension door; Cost 4000 gp
Disclaimer:
Note:
Fair is foul and foul is fair supposedly . Basically, though, does this item have any useful application in a spa?
Cotton gloves neither look classy when one arrives, nor are useful on the premises in likely moisture rich environments.
Assuming for a moment that it’s more convenient to pay taxes than to circumvent the system, does this item look likely to be a tax-deductible business expense for a succubus art-dealer?
It's a bit expensive for a 'move small stock items or gem pouch payments around the store with a minion's aid' tax deductible item. These gloves do admittedly have a certain potential for a spymistress-in-disguise-as-an-art-dealer, but spymistresses tend not to declare their profession on tax forms, so basically this item isn't tax-deductible.
Is the item useful in a strawberries-and-cream-tea context?
Since the purpose of the date is assumed to be first and foremost romantic, likely no.
Other Comments?
Gollum Rating:
Ant Health Warning: this year, I really worked hard on technical execution of my item, so these reviews will likely reflect template use. Brace yourselves for the template fu - it can sting.
Template Use: 7/10
template fu falls off the edge of price wondering where the line break came from. Eats a point to salavage his bruised bottom. Then, in a fit of pique, he eats another point for not formatting the price and cost numbers. Finally, he has dessert with another point for wall of words in the description.
Slot affinity: 8/10
I liked the affinity here, it all fits nicely, dealing with sleight of hand and holding and catching things. I did find myself picturing Michael Jackson singing his way through some magic parlour tricks with them, but thats just me having a weird moment.
Abuseability: 7/10
When transferring items between gloves, what happens if the receiving glove is already hands full? What if the receiving glove is open and the wearer is not expecting anything to appear? Does it automatically close around received items? Does it drop items held in order to recieve?
Desirability: 8/10
Pickpocket heaven, that bonus is so big it easily outshines the other items in this price bracket.
Originality: 9/10
I liked this both as a player and as a GM. It would make that walk into town with their treasure so much more dangerous for the PCs - evil GM grin.
Ant Score: 39/50 (78%)
I'm assuming the gloves don't work unless both are worn. If that weren't a requirement, I might simply keep one glove in a crate or stash of some kind so that I could walk around nabbing items. That would be fun! :p