Paizo Update from Jeff Alvarez

Monday, September 20, 2021

My public statement on Wednesday was a fundamental expression of Paizo’s commitment to diversity and inclusion, values that I share both personally and professionally. It was an opening statement—not the final word on the topic by any means.

Words are important.

But I also know that actions are even more important.

As a result, I want to share with you a number of actions that address some of the concerns that have been brought to our attention over the last week.

The welfare and safety of our employees is paramount. No employee will ever be fired for whistleblowing or advocating for employee safety and wellbeing, and we have never fired an employee for doing so.

Following our return from Gen Con, the Executive Team will schedule individual meetings with our managers to give them a chance to share concerns directly. In the coming weeks, Paizo will issue an independently managed employee engagement survey to provide all employees with an anonymous means to provide candid feedback. The information provided through this process is aimed at addressing employee concerns and driving change to create a more positive workplace.

We take all claims of harassment seriously. Our CEO Lisa Stevens released a statement in 2019 that underscores Paizo’s stance on this matter, and it applies today as well. You can read that here: https://paizo.com/community/guidelines.

We held staff-wide in person anti-harassment training in 2018 and initiated annual mandatory online training earlier in 2021.

We are currently finalizing a job description to fill a vacant full-time HR position. You’ll see this posted in the next few business days, and we’ll be looking for a candidate with expertise in diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is important to all of us that this professional can help us to maintain Paizo’s shared commitment to our values in recruitment, hiring, and daily operations.

In the meantime, we are encouraging our employees to make use of the free independent human resources hotline Paizo initiated in 2018, where they can report grievances of any kind in complete confidentiality.

Paizo makes decisions about employee convention attendance based on the business and community needs of the show, irrespective of gender or gender identity. However, it is time that Paizo evolves from the longtime practice of employees sharing rooms during convention and business travel. As such, we have enacted a one-employee-per-room policy that will be our standard moving forward. Employees can request to share a room if they so choose.

We are extending Paizo’s existing work-from-home timeline through at least the end of the year. Employees that want to work from the office can continue to do so but will need to abide by the company’s existing vaccination and mask policies. We will continue to follow CDC guidelines and keep our employees as safe as possible during the pandemic by offering work-from-home and a safe office space for those who prefer that option.

Over the last several years, we have invested heavily in Project Management to help the company get a better sense of workload in the Creative Department, implementing company-wide project management software and increasing the size of the project management team. This work has already resulted in increased production schedule lead times, and Paizo will continue to leverage this valuable resource to provide better work/life balances for our employees.

In the same period, the creation of additional management positions within the Creative Department has also helped give staff better access to managers, and to empower those managers to better gauge deadlines and workloads. As with our Project Management initiatives, this is an ongoing process, but it is already bearing fruit and improving not just Paizo’s products, but the lives of the brilliant creatives who make them possible.

To clear up some confusion that has worked its way into the conversation, freelancer relations remains the purview of the Creative Department. Paizo freelancers who appreciate their strong relationship with our developers, editors, and art team can be assured that we have made no changes on this front.

Finally, based on feedback from the staff, we changed professional cleaning services in 2017, and the offices have been cleaned and vacuumed on a regular basis since then.

These aren’t the only things we are doing. We are building strategies to address the challenges facing the company and will strive to be more transparent about our plans as we build stronger lines of communication with everyone at Paizo. We are committed to listening. We are committed to continuing to improve based on the feedback of our teams. There will be more messages, and more concrete actions, to come.

--Jeff

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I am saying this broadly, and not directly in response to anyone, because it's been happening for a while now:

Jessica Price, Crystal Frasier, Diego Valdez, Liz Courts and those others who have raised their various concerns are members of this community. There are rules about personal attacks leveled at other community members, rules which I think everyone here knows. These people don't become open season the second they're no longer employees of Paizo. If you wouldn't say it to me, it's not appropriate to say about them.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Jessica may be a divisive and passionate individual but her claims have been corroborated by *multiple* former and even some current paizo employees. I don't care if you don't like her, that doesn't mean she's not telling the truth. I choose to believe the multiple people that have come forward with their allegations, I have thought hard on this and I know what I'm doing thank you very much


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I'm still waiting, since they said they needed a few more business days. This stuff does take time. Even if everyone at Paizo was perfectly on the same page, writing up new policies or the like can be extremely cumbersome and take longer than people think, since bureaucracy is just another form of labor. For now, I'm suspending any final judgment on their handling of this.

Fair enough. It is definitely better to take their time and release a comprehensive statement to show where they've erred and how they're going to improve. Rather than release 2-3 piecemeal statements a week that are inadequate on their own just for the sake of not going radio silent. For my part, I'm gonna suspend purchases until they've got that comprehensive statement.


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For those that didn't see, Aaron made a very small post on twitter today about taking some time off after 12 days in a row, and added to it that while there's no news, internal conversations are happening between staff and management. Post tagged with #PaizoAccountability.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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keftiu wrote:
For those that didn't see, Aaron made a very small post on twitter today about taking some time off after 12 days in a row, and added to it that while there's no news, internal conversations are happening between staff and management. Post tagged with #PaizoAccountability.

Working 12 days in a row is definitely a huge part of the problem if that's the office culture at Paizo.


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In fairness, that's not always precisely management's deliberate fault, though it is their responsibility. I really think what we've been gathering this last week or so is that Paizo's been operating at a pretty unsustainable pace for a while now. The labor value and cost of living are both far more than the company feels they can afford to pay in their industry. That probably has consequences elsewhere down the line.


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keftiu wrote:
For those that didn't see, Aaron made a very small post on twitter today about taking some time off after 12 days in a row, and added to it that while there's no news, internal conversations are happening between staff and management. Post tagged with #PaizoAccountability.

12 days? Is that legal in the US? (I am an Australian and this whole affair has had me being very confused about US labour laws - both that many days in a row and the carpet thing are both super illegal here, so I'm not sure how to gauge this.)

Silver Crusade

12 is the limit in a lot of states I believe.

The Exchange

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Rysky wrote:
12 is the limit in a lot of states I believe.

just looked it up and in Germany, theoretically, 19 days would be possible and allowed in certain jobs. Don't know that to happen in reality, but at least for us nurses, 12 days isn't that uncommon either.


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To be fair to Paizo, these last 12 days were probably an anomaly with GenCon and all the pressure the community has put on for change right now this instant.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Rysky wrote:
12 is the limit in a lot of states I believe.

Washington is not one of those states; there's no limit to days worked in a row here.

I know this personally because I moved from California (where the limit is effectively 12*) to Washington and had a bit of a shock when I was asked to work 15 or so days in a row.

--

*California's law actually specifies that employees must receive at least one day off every seven days, but since that goes by calendar week if an employee gives you a Sunday off one week and a Saturday off the next week that's 12 days in a row and legal... but if they give you 12 days in a row in any other combination of days it's not legal.

Very weird.

Grand Lodge

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JoelF847 wrote:
Working 12 days in a row is definitely a huge part of the problem if that's the office culture at Paizo.

Most workplaces have times when you work long hours and/or long weeks. I've gone six months or more working 6-tens or 7-days a week. As long as you are adequately compensated with OT, comp time, etc. its not a problem. Gen Con is one of those times when you give up your weekend and work basically two weeks straight. That's typical of the entire gaming industry.

Spoiler:
Personally, I don't think the government should be setting limitations that restrict the workforce from negotiating the terms of their working environment (outside of certain safety protections), but that is a topic for another thread.

Dark Archive

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Wouldn’t you want yer PR guy working right now?

Silver Crusade

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He's already worked 12 days in a row. Overworked and unhappy PR guy is not a good thing.


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Does the labour law in US allow the employer to feed on the entrails of their still-living employees?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Only on Sundays because that's when God's distracted.

Doesn't keep some companies from expanding that to Saturday or Monday because that's Sunday somewhere they've planted their corporate flag.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I once worked the whole month of July. It happens and you make good overtime.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
TwilightKnight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
And in that thread we will have a long discussion about how that's a great idea if only employees and employers had equal bargaining power.

There definitely comes a point where the overtime stops being worth it; I've reached that point myself. At a certain point you just need a darn break.


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If we're gonna keep talking about Aaron's thread, maybe somebody should link it so we all know the context?

Grand Lodge

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MaxAstro wrote:
There definitely comes a point where the overtime stops being worth it; I've reached that point myself. At a certain point you just need a darn break.

I agree, but I would say that point is probably much longer than 12 days, assuming of course you are being compensated for the OT. I have worked jobs that expected 60+ hours out of their mgmt staff even though the salary is based on the 40-48 hour schedule typical of managers in the US.

Spoiler:
Employees generally have plenty of negotiating power when they do so collectively. You much less mind working a lot of OT when your working conditions are safe and you receive premium rates.


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Spoiler:
"When they do so collectively" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. A fully operational union as a whole can be powerful, but you're assuming a lot of steps that aren't there. Even putting aside the inherent organizational challenges unions face, even assuming a perfectly supportive management that doesn't take steps to sabotage it, each individual employee who makes themselves a target puts at stake their income, their health care, and their professional reputation. The employer is often well-off enough that their personal quality of living wouldn't change even if the whole company went under.

Government-mandated minimum wage isn't a limit on a union's negotiating. It's a floor to protect all employees, including those in weak or vulnerable unions--or those without unions altogether, which is, I believe, most American workers right now.

Dark Archive

Rysky wrote:
He's already worked 12 days in a row. Overworked and unhappy PR guy is not a good thing.

I agree. But this situation is for what you pay him; hours be damned.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
If we're gonna keep talking about Aaron's thread, maybe somebody should link it so we all know the context?

I assume this is what is being mentioned.

Liberty's Edge

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Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Rysky wrote:
He's already worked 12 days in a row. Overworked and unhappy PR guy is not a good thing.
I agree. But this situation is for what you pay him; hours be damned.

Which is the reason why you should have procedures and back-up in places to avoid everything resting on one person's shoulders.

Avoiding firing a key employee just before the high-pressure 2 weeks would help too.

I guess for a year or two they will avoid this specific period for that kind of shenanigan.

Dark Archive

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The Raven Black wrote:
Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Rysky wrote:
He's already worked 12 days in a row. Overworked and unhappy PR guy is not a good thing.
I agree. But this situation is for what you pay him; hours be damned.
I guess for a year or two they will avoid this specific period for that kind of shenanigan.

Let’s not be hasty now.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MaxAstro wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

There definitely comes a point where the overtime stops being worth it; I've reached that point myself. At a certain point you just need a darn break.

And that point is different for each individual. Not everyone should be expected to give up on their work-life balance, even with overtime pay. If you're constantly being assigned work that can't be done in a 40 hour work week, the problem is not you, but again on the management.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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TwilightKnight wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
Working 12 days in a row is definitely a huge part of the problem if that's the office culture at Paizo.

Most workplaces have times when you work long hours and/or long weeks. I've gone six months or more working 6-tens or 7-days a week. As long as you are adequately compensated with OT, comp time, etc. its not a problem. Gen Con is one of those times when you give up your weekend and work basically two weeks straight. That's typical of the entire gaming industry.

** spoiler omitted **

If you're hourly, yes you get OT, comp time etc. If you're salaried (which I'm guessing is the case for almost everyone at Paizo, but could be wrong) then you get....exactly nothing for working OT, unless the company gives you something. Sure, Gen Con might be a seasonal spike, but a) Paizo didn't attend Gen Con this year in person, and b) when that does happen, a good employer will give equivalent time off so you're not just working 12 days in a row. If you work weekends for Gen Con, etc. you should have the Monday/Tuesday off afterwards. If not everyone can take the same days off, then stagger it, so some have a few days before Gen Con off, some have a few days after, etc.

Does the law require it? No. Does a good employer do it? Yes.


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I do want to be fair and acknowledge that Aaron mentions working twelve days in a row as an aside, and we don't know any of the circumstances under which he chose or felt obligated to do so. That said, I do think it's worth talking about here. Working twelve days in a row should be recognized as an aberration.

Paizo Employee Director of Community

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Removed some personal attacks and the resulting commentary. Thank you for keeping the discussion relatively calm over the weekend.

Paizo Employee Marketing & Media Manager

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I do want to be fair and acknowledge that Aaron mentions working twelve days in a row as an aside, and we don't know any of the circumstances under which he chose or felt obligated to do so. That said, I do think it's worth talking about here. Working twelve days in a row should be recognized as an aberration.

Aw, thank you, but no worries. I am salaried and exempt from overtime in Washington State. My work can and does occasionally go beyond a 40 work week. Just during PaizoCon and Gen Con, really. OK, Paizo LIVE too. ;) I work with my manager to get time off elsewhere.

In this case, I'm the one who wanted to run long hours of Gen Con programming, including staff seminars and live plays, because I wanted to show off the content creator community to the Gen Con audience. No manager asked me to. It was out of my own enthusiasm and initiative. And I got to it in the comfort of my home.

I'll work with the Marketing Coordinator—who is also in my dept, but does not report to me—to give me more breaks over the next con.

Have I complained about feeling overworked and burned out before? Yes, and my manager listened, restructured the department, and things got better. And that happened because the Exec team approved the change.

Anecdotally, I am also a proud member of Actors Equity Association, the stage actor's union. We would do 8 shows a week with 1 guaranteed day off during a 1 week period. To make schedules work during the holidays we sometimes worked with looooong seperations between those days off. And that was under contract. Was I tired? Heck yes. But I see both these situations within acceptable and legal work perimeters.


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Thanks for sharing, Aaron! I didn't want us to read into anything, but it's honestly really helpful to get more insight about the way worktime works.

Also, thanks for the Twitter update! I know we all appreciated it a lot, even if it led to all this hubbub on here. :P


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Yoshua wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
There's a line at your door for people who love role playing and aren't drenched in angsty griefer victim politics. Fire whoever you want, you're a private business. Most of the white knights in this thread would happily shutter their gofundme or quit Panera to work for you. Don't bend to the mob or they'll bend you.
Just for reference.... There are quite a few current employees at paizo that also have patreons. So if people quit their Panera Bread job and by some miracle get a job at Paizo that possibly pays less I doubt they will be able to cancel their patreon or gofundme accounts....

Maybe they should consider an industry that pays more, or given the tools for self publishing and open source media tools start their own RPG company? You see, that's actually hard. Even the people here so scorned by an internal HR issue unrelated to the product itself (a ttrpg, a whimsical hobby for us lucky enough to not be substance level farmers, not exactly a life saving product) can go make a better Paizo with all the policies they want. By count in this thread you've got plenty of people. Be well and I hope you find satisfaction in your hobby vendors.


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nedleeds wrote:
Yoshua wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
There's a line at your door for people who love role playing and aren't drenched in angsty griefer victim politics. Fire whoever you want, you're a private business. Most of the white knights in this thread would happily shutter their gofundme or quit Panera to work for you. Don't bend to the mob or they'll bend you.
Just for reference.... There are quite a few current employees at paizo that also have patreons. So if people quit their Panera Bread job and by some miracle get a job at Paizo that possibly pays less I doubt they will be able to cancel their patreon or gofundme accounts....
Maybe they should consider an industry that pays more, or given the tools for self publishing and open source media tools start their own RPG company? You see, that's actually hard. Even the people here so scorned by an internal HR issue unrelated to the product itself (a ttrpg, a whimsical hobby for us lucky enough to not be substance level farmers, not exactly a life saving product) can go make a better Paizo with all the policies they want. By count in this thread you've got plenty of people. Be well and I hope you find satisfaction in your hobby vendors.

Creative RPG people want to work in the field because they love it, but that love can lead to exploitation.

Starting up your own RPG company is not only hard, but is a long shot gamble that is almost certainly going to pay less, possibly much less for years if it ever pays off at all.

I don't want good creative people whose work I enjoy to leave the industry and stop making that work in order to earn a decent living.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

One week since this post. I know internal conversations are still going around and likely will be until the end of time. But still hoping for transparency on what actions are being taken to create the inclusive environment at work that your product portrays.

Also, while I understand you can't discuss personnel matters, it won't stop me from asking about the Sara Marie and Diego situation that from an outside perspective was handled... at best, poorly.

If even in generics, or specifics, why would someone be unceremoniously fired and in such a way that one of their direct reports would, in theory, quit in protest. I mean, theoretically what might cause that type of situation and what would the upper management do to rectify it if it were to have occurred in the past, present, or future?

Lastly, I continue to wonder if the outside survey which would allow employees to anonymously report their grievances will be enough. I've been on both ends of 'anonymous' surveys and let me tell ya that when they still break it down by department and there are 3 people in that department? Management will most certainly know exactly who said what. With that being said how confident are you that the anonymous information gathered in such a way will be an honest critique?


I have been working with these anonymous surveys as well, and if done decently you only provide aggregated data, and only if group sizes tracks a certain amount of people (eg 15).

Also if you want to retaliate based on this type of data, you would be a pretty crappy manager and person…


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Berhagen wrote:

I have been working with these anonymous surveys as well, and if done decently you only provide aggregated data, and only if group sizes tracks a certain amount of people (eg 15).

Also if you want to retaliate based on this type of data, you would be a pretty crappy manager and person…

Agreed 100%

I had a management that did in fact retaliate. My group was joined up with another group because my team was 3 members and theirs was 5. Based on the answers it was very clear what members where parts of which team and it was indeed. Crappy.

I no longer partake in these anonymous surveys because of what happened. I also was not the one retaliated against.

It is much more efficient and practical to have a relationship of trust with someone in management that you know will listen to you confidentially and take your concerns up the chain as appropriate. If I don't feel I have that relationship with someone in a company I keep my head down and do my job. If something happens that makes me decide to leave? Then I always have that option as well.


thejeff wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Yoshua wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
There's a line at your door for people who love role playing and aren't drenched in angsty griefer victim politics. Fire whoever you want, you're a private business. Most of the white knights in this thread would happily shutter their gofundme or quit Panera to work for you. Don't bend to the mob or they'll bend you.
Just for reference.... There are quite a few current employees at paizo that also have patreons. So if people quit their Panera Bread job and by some miracle get a job at Paizo that possibly pays less I doubt they will be able to cancel their patreon or gofundme accounts....
Maybe they should consider an industry that pays more, or given the tools for self publishing and open source media tools start their own RPG company? You see, that's actually hard. Even the people here so scorned by an internal HR issue unrelated to the product itself (a ttrpg, a whimsical hobby for us lucky enough to not be substance level farmers, not exactly a life saving product) can go make a better Paizo with all the policies they want. By count in this thread you've got plenty of people. Be well and I hope you find satisfaction in your hobby vendors.

Creative RPG people want to work in the field because they love it, but that love can lead to exploitation.

Starting up your own RPG company is not only hard, but is a long shot gamble that is almost certainly going to pay less, possibly much less for years if it ever pays off at all.

I don't want good creative people whose work I enjoy to leave the industry and stop making that work in order to earn a decent living.

You sound knowledgeable, you could take the long shot, start the company and hire the good creative people. That way they get paid if you fail and they won't get discouraged.


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I think thejeff summarized the reasons "just go found your own company" isn't really very realistic advice quite well.


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"if you don't like how a thing is done, fix it by doing it yourself" is patently ridiculous. It is like when I complain about how the government treats people with disability, and people tell me "stop complaining about it and become prime minister so you can fix it" (I've actually been told this).

Just because you are unable (or unwilling) to do a job, doesn't mean you don't get to give feedback on how people who do the job do things.


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The thing is, making a company from the ground up is hard. You risk you own livelihood in a bet that your idea will take off with no guarantees. You have no overtime pay or workers rights.

It really makes you appreciate entrepeneurs like Lisa. She even released the means of production with Pathfinder Infinite and Starfinder Infinite.

Humbly,
Yawar


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I think thejeff summarized the reasons "just go found your own company" isn't really very realistic advice quite well.

"not only hard, but is a long shot gamble that is almost certainly going to pay less"

It's hard? No kidding, how is that a barrier? Anyone how gets up the morning and runs a business knows this, everyone who has a payroll that needs to be paid knows this. But if you want to set policy then the best way is to be the boss and run the company.

Long shot gamble. Sure, but if you have the talent and work ethic certainly trying to make your passion (which multiple people in this thread seem to have) your profession is worth it. The other option of complaining about policies of companies you don't even work for just seems, well kind of hollow. What do any of you know about running a publishing company anyway? Go do it and tell us about your way of doing it better.

Pay less. So you want to profit off the founders risk and hard work and want to bear none of it yourself. Your attitude is frankly defeatist, go read your posts. You put all this energy and passion into a company you don't own. Put it into your own endeavor and do things your way. Be well, and best of luck.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
YawarFiesta wrote:

The thing is, making a company from the ground up is hard. You risk you own livelihood in a bet that your idea will take off with no guarantees. You have no overtime pay or workers rights.

It really makes you appreciate entrepeneurs like Lisa. She even released the means of production with Pathfinder Infinite and Starfinder Infinite.

Humbly,
Yawar

Woah, woah woah. I love community content programs dearly, but it's not "releasing the means of production" in any way that that phrase is used politically. DTRPG takes a 35% cut and the partner (Paizo in this case) takes 15%. Releasing the means of production would be making Lost Omens public domain (which, to be clear, I'm not advocating for).

We don't need to rehash the many, many, many debates within the TTRPG writer sphere about whether those numbers are fair. But we also don't need to say a capitalist act is a socialist one. Infinite is an awesome idea, we can let it be what it is.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aaron Shanks wrote:
Have I complained about feeling overworked and burned out before? Yes, and my manager listened, restructured the department, and things got better. And that happened because the Exec team approved the change.

Awesome for sharing openly and honestly!

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I do want to be fair and acknowledge that Aaron mentions working twelve days in a row as an aside, and we don't know any of the circumstances under which he chose or felt obligated to do so. That said, I do think it's worth talking about here. Working twelve days in a row should be recognized as an aberration.

I think it's weird how people on here are speculating how others are being treated which are causing people to respond on their own personal experiences. I know in my own personal experience I love my company enough to work 12 days in a row especially during large releases. I don't think it should be recognized as a negative thing necessarily. I think as long as the people and the organizations work together as Aaaron shared above. I am privileged enough in my field where I wouldn't work for a company I couldn't passionately engage and work extra hours to make sure a project or launch is successful... I would not want government or people to interfere with that either.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The difficulty of “no government or outside interference because it worked for me” is that it presupposes a positive outcome. The whole purpose of labour rights laws is that it prevents abuse by assuming the worst and raising the bar for everyone. So, for instance, while it would be ideal to pay people a living wage, and one could even argue that the system incentivizes employers to do this (I don’t buy that argument, but it *could* be made), that doesn’t get over the fact that some companies will always try and cut corners or don’t give a fig about their staff. In these cases, you get the labour laws dictating what a “minimum” is. Sure, there are some people that love working overtime and would voluntarily engage with their work outside their parameters. But for every person that does, there’s the potential for another person where that assumption is used by an employer to exploit a non-consenting employee. So while it’s great you had a good experience, unless there’s something compelling other companies to follow suite with enough authority, many won’t, and people will be harmed. In addition, in my state for e.g., you can only work so many hours before you are required to receive a break. You can volunteer to work past it, but must sign paperwork to consent to it voluntarily. It’s not an ideal system because some employers will retaliate against workers that don’t sign (which is illegal, btw), it’s still at least some kind of protection. An employer can’t work their most vulnerable employees half to death on a whim. There are *some* hoops they have to go through. Honestly, given the willingness of many employers to try and circumvent even the existing labour laws specifically to overwork their staff for an extra few pennies on the bottom line, I’d argue we already need stronger labour laws, not more lax ones. But that’s just me…


nedleeds wrote:


Long shot gamble. Sure,

Definition: Longshot

a venture or guess that has only the slightest chance of succeeding or being accurate.

nedleeds wrote:
but if you have the talent and work ethic certainly trying to make your passion (...) your profession is worth it.

By the definition of "longshot", it only has the slightest chance of being worth it. The "slightest chance" and "certainly" are very different odds.

I think you might be confused about how private business and the exchange of money for goods and services works in the US. A private wholesale/retail business is (at least by theoretical definition) wholly reliant on customers for income*. If the customers choose to spend elsewhere, the business has no income. Therefore, customers have the ability to place demands on a company, before exchanging their money for the goods or services the company produces. Customers with a developed sense of morality (or at least their own self interest) can withhold their spending from companies that do not meet their standards.

Things get a little more complex when talking about goods and services required for survival or success in a society, but for discretionary items like most entertainment, the customers have near total control. This total control also means that customers have substantial responsibilities. The customer is making the choice to financially support the company, so the customer is morally liable for all the company does for good or ill.

*A private company could be funded solely by the fortunes of the owners, however it would always operate at a total loss.


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Fergie wrote:
the customer is morally liable for all the company does for good or ill.

I don't agree. Be well.

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