Agents of Edgewatch Update

Monday, June 22, 2020

We at Paizo strive to represent our company’s values of inclusivity through the content of our Pathfinder and Starfinder publications. Showcasing diversity in the stories of the cultures, races, sexualities, and gender identities of our characters is something we’ve tried to emphasize since the company’s inception 18 years ago. As we wrote in our public statement earlier this month about the Black Lives Matter movement, it’s an ongoing and vital process.

The murder of George Floyd by police and the resulting political actions, increased visibility around issues of police brutality, and ongoing conversation about the role of policing in our society casts a difficult light upon Agents of Edgewatch, our upcoming Pathfinder Adventure Path in which players take on the roles of members of the city watch in a vast fantasy metropolis. As Paizo’s publisher, I want to take this opportunity to address the situation directly.

When we began work early last year on Agents of Edgewatch, we conceived of the adventures as a pseudo-Victorian crime drama in which a party of Sherlock Holmeses would bring a cult of sinister murderers to justice against the backdrop of a World’s Fair-style celebration in Absalom, the huge city at the center of the Pathfinder world. Along the way, we’d dabble in some buddy cop movie tropes and use the players’ role as new and idealistic town guards as a framing device for a tour of the city as they attempt to thwart the evil cult’s machinations.

In our heads, this was a classic detective story, not a chance for players to act out power fantasies of being militarized police officers oppressing citizens. As publisher, I was confident that we could steer well clear of egregious parallels to modern police violence and handle the material responsibly.

But there’s more to it than that. What I hadn't realized—no doubt a result of my own privilege—is that the very concept of police, the idea of in fact taking on the role of police, makes some members of the Paizo community deeply uncomfortable, no matter how deftly we might try to pull off the execution.

While I remain proud of the work we as a team have put into the Agents of Edgewatch campaign, and I believe that our writers, developers, and editors have ensured that the subject matter has been handled responsibly, I also believe that if we were making the decision about Adventure Path themes today, we would have chosen to go forward with a different idea, or a different take on a similar detective-story theme. For many of us here at Paizo, our understanding has evolved, not just of the horrible impact of police violence, but how some members of our community—especially those who are also members of the Black community—have not had the luxury of ignoring it.

To that end, I should acknowledge that some members of our staff did raise concerns about the campaign’s theme early on. In retrospect, I did not give these concerns the full audience that they deserved, and I regret this oversight. That’s part of the learning process, too.

I remain confident in our ability to create a campaign that lives up to our editorial and moral standards—even while acknowledging that we should have chosen a different approach for this Adventure Path. The events of the Agents of Edgewatch campaign assume empathic, heroic player characters who are there to serve their community. Groups who wish to play the campaign without taking on the role of city guards will be able to remove the law-enforcement element from the story without much work, instead telling the heroic tale of a band of local adventurers who take it upon themselves to rid the city of murderers and evil cultists. The free Agents of Edgewatch Player’s Guide (scheduled to release next week) will offer several suggestions on how to do this, as well as tips on how to utilize and adapt Pathfinder’s non-combat conflict-resolution mechanics as well as non-lethal combat rules when running the campaign.

I’d like to acknowledge the efforts of our editing team, who have been exemplary in helping us to eliminate unintentionally problematic elements, consult with sensitivity readers, and ensure that products come with detailed content warnings. The developers have likewise been striving to be more sensitive to these concerns. I hope that Agents of Edgewatch as a whole will display our ability to listen and present the subject matter respectfully. We will continue to strive to improve our sensitivity and ensure our adventure and plot elements remain firmly in the realm of fantasy.

While we cannot afford to cancel or delay the Adventure Path, we want to show our commitment to remedying our earlier choices through action. As we stated in a previous blog, we’ve contributed the Starfinder Core Rulebook to Humble Bundle’s Fight for Racial Justice charity fundraising campaign, which has already raised more than $3,700,000 for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Race Forward, and the Bail Project. Furthermore, Paizo will donate a portion of proceeds from all volumes of the Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path sold through the end of 2021 to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Lastly, next month, we’ll announce another major fundraising effort focused squarely on Paizo’s products, with charity proceeds to benefit Black-oriented charities. We hope you will join us in these efforts.

We remain committed to the ideals of inclusivity and racial justice. We will continue to listen and will strive to do better in the future.

Erik Mona
Publisher

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9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

This statement has me strongly considering signing up for a subscription to APs.

However, a few controversial questions must be asked... Will this AP address the 'mythology' of 'a few rotten apples' that is commonly trotted out by police apologists when it's more a systematic and cultural thing that needs to be addressed?

Or will it be six chapters of 'Oh, hey, here's yet another rotten apple to pick out of the bushel so the rest of the system can keep going'?

The first option would promise to be incredibly insightful and potentially educational not only in game terms but also possibly in RL.

The second option would feel like it would be 'just more of the same'...


6 people marked this as a favorite.

And THIS is why I love and support this company.

Keep going strong, guys!

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Accolades to Paizo for this statement.

I look to roleplaying games to provide me perspective - and I endeavor to take different viewpoints when I roleplay. RPGs are the gift to the world, that keep on giving. That said, I do like a little fantasy in my fictional world. When RL creeps too much into my hobby, I don't feel the escapism that gets me to play in the first place. This last weekend, during ConCurrent, I played a scenario, released in November 2019, that had way too many eerily similar circumstances (disease) to real life. Prophetic. I think that tainted the session and it became less enjoyable.

In the D&D blog, I think they overstep when they are correcting that orcs can be of any alignment, disposition and have any ability scores bonuses. Tolkien's Uruk-Hai were not peaceful or civilized. They were hell-bent on destruction. Crushing any race distinctions, in a fantasy, fictional, made up setting, is antithetical to the premise. Like having nations of LG tieflings fighting CE aasimars. There comes a point, in fiction, where we have to conscionably decide that some stereotypes are best left alone. Is the future of roleplaying that all humanoid fantasy races can be good, bad or in-between, and only monsters and aberrations are to be fought? That's a greater fantasy than the game itself. We need to stare our demon side down, have creative opportunities to defeat it. YMMV.

Speaking of monsters, I did like a certain friendly otyugh fond of hats. Certainly the exception to the rule.


10 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Will this AP address the 'mythology' of 'a few rotten apples' that is commonly trotted out by police apologists when it's more a systematic and cultural thing that needs to be addressed?

Or will it be six chapters of 'Oh, hey, here's yet another rotten apple to pick out of the bushel so the rest of the system can keep going'?

The first option would promise to be incredibly insightful and potentially educational not only in game terms but also possibly in RL.

The second option would feel like it would be 'just more of the same'...

Personally I hope none of that is really introduced in the campaign. For me, I play TTRPGs to escape to another reality, usually an idealized one. These are important topics to discuss, but I think putting the pressure on DMs to run something so serious is just asking for trouble.

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Excellent statement. I am still planning to run this AP and with everything going on in the world at this particular time, I feel it might be a good time to run it. Our real life world is changing and APs are fantasy agents of change. Seeing how a group of roleplayers interprets the story and adapts to it will be an interesting experience.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Excellent statement, glad to see it!


9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Sliska Zafir wrote:


In the D&D blog, I think they overstep when they are correcting that orcs can be of any alignment, disposition and have any ability scores bonuses. Tolkien's Uruk-Hai were not peaceful or civilized. They were hell-bent on destruction. Crushing any race distinctions, in a fantasy, fictional, made up setting, is antithetical to the premise. Like having nations of LG tieflings fighting CE aasimars. There comes a point, in fiction, where we have to conscionably decide that some stereotypes are best left alone. Is the future of roleplaying that all humanoid fantasy races can be good, bad or in-between, and only monsters and aberrations are to be fought? That's a greater fantasy than the game itself. We need to stare our demon side down, have creative opportunities to defeat it. YMMV.

Speaking of monsters, I did like a certain friendly otyugh fond of hats. Certainly the exception to the rule.

This is not the D&D forum, but something that has *always* bothered me about D&D (and to a lesser extent Pathfinder -- though Pathfinder showed willingness to change over time) was the fact that some races were considered monolithic stereotypical 'always bad guys'.

It made it easier to fall into the mental trap of say, 'black people are like orcs' or 'First Nation folks are like elves' and it took a *lot* of work to realize why it bothered me and how.

So for systems that are willing to expand and explore what 'is commonly known' versus 'the in-game reality' that step away from such hardline and decades-old relics of the game will get my attention more these days.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the decision to go forward and release the AP, I look forward to getting it.

Grand Lodge

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Xathos of Varisia wrote:
Excellent statement. I am still planning to run this AP and with everything going on in the world at this particular time, I feel it might be a good time to run it. Our real life world is changing and APs are fantasy agents of change. Seeing how a group of roleplayers interprets the story and adapts to it will be an interesting experience.

My home group falls along different points of the political spectrum. And we discuss and debate real world topics in a civil manner. And that’s because we’re friends and respect each other’s point of view. But when it’s time to start rolling dice, we put those discussions away and do what we came there to do: Have fun and escape the real world for a few hours.

Radiant Oath

12 people marked this as a favorite.

I've been looking forward to this AP from the second I heard about it, but I have the benefit of coming from a country that has a much better relationship with its police force, to the point where the recent death of a detective has been a national tragedy.

Hopefully Edgewatch will show that there are other relationships that can exist between a community and its protectors than the toxic one that has grown in places like the US and Hong Kong, and based on Paizo's record I have faith they can do just that.

Liberty's Edge

13 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, ugly timing for a City-Guard as Holmes and Watson AP. Can't really disagree about that.

Still, you're being straight-up about it Erik.

There are a lot of darts and arrows that are thrown at Paizo from time to time, but I have never seen anybody suggest (with any persuasive force) that Paizo was anything less than an industry leader for social justice and a paragon of LGBT inclusiveness in gaming.

Sometimes, events overtake you.

I still plan on Agents of Edgewatch as being the first PF2 AP I run for my PF1 grognard players.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nobody is perfect, but it takes a good person to admit their shortcomings and attempt to make amends. I have a lot of respect for Erik Mona and he seems like such a cool guy from all the times I listened to him on the Glass Cannon Podcast and I'm glad they addressed the matter and told everyone "we hear you and we will do better". That's all you can ask from people.


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Thios probably isn't a popular opinion with most people these days, but not all police are bad, not in the USA or, i imagine, in any country. They are people, and some are good and some are bad. But police are important. They protect people who are incapable of doing so themselves.

I for one appreciate our officers of the law, and believe that most of them joined the police force to help and protect people, not so they could abuse others. Thank you officers for your service to your fellow people.

Looking forward to Agents of Edgewatch, and I am sure that it will not disappoint me. None of Paizo's AP's have so far.

Thank you Paizo.


9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cendragon wrote:

"Furthermore, Paizo will donate a portion of proceeds from all volumes of the Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path sold through the end of 2021 to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund."

Why so vague on the percentage? Is is 1%?, 0.5? 10%?

I imagine they are still crunching the numbers and figuring out what the can do that is both responsible for the company and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and are not ready to announce a number at this point.

Also, it is their right to not announce a number. Even 0.5% is better than 0%

At the end of the day, I (personally) appreciate the even-tempered response to a complicated (though some would argue non-issue) by Mr. Mona. Your mileage may vary if it wasn't enough for you. if not announcing the exact percentage of donations was not enough for you, you are entitled to that opinion.

The only thing I hope does not happen is for people who feel that the response was not enough to equate it to no response at all. And comparing this response to a "leader" who consistantly deals in falsehoods feels, at best, like bait. At worse, like a massively false equivalency.


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Thank you, Paizo. I'll be subscribing to this AP both because I am interested in the story and to support both you and, through you, the NAACP.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I personally did not feel drawn to this adventure path when initially reading information released and didnt know why.

As current events have progressed, I realised more that my distaste for police and the capability of violence would only get emphasized in a game if left unchecked or written incorrectly. My unconscious biased and distrust had been inpacting my opinions.

After reading all the comments, the one by Yrrej86 got me thinking from another prspective. We all can use this adventure to test ourselves and players. To improve ourselves and veiw approaching combat and enforcement from new angles. What about non police stepping in. What about groups capable of de-escalating situations. What other sources of peace can be found. Not everyone in a group of evil cultists even has to be evil, so why slaughter them all?...

Fantasy is a great place to appraoch and observe real world conflicts in a safe setting.

I trust how inclusive and open to creativity all paizo products are and with a portion of all sales going directly to charities, I will support you and those you help impact.

Thank you.


24 people marked this as a favorite.

I have trouble believing that people in good faith have trouble understanding the difference between the perils of the "y'all are cops" AP and those of an "edgy on purpose" AP.

I mean, there's a big difference between "you're supposed to be the good guys, but in fact what you're doing is pretty bad" and "you're a motley crew of morally flexible mercenaries and what you're doing is pretty bad." It's especially a big difference when the bad things done by the nominal good guys are presented as good things, because the good guys are doing them.

Vigilant Seal

7 people marked this as a favorite.
ThreeEyedSloth wrote:

Thank you.

Because you admitted that these issues were addressed by staff previously but were primarily ignored or brushed aside, what steps will you be taking to stop that from happening again in the future?

THIS is the question that I want/need answered.

Shadow Lodge

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Sunderstone wrote:

I really hope this doesn't become the status quo for Paizo going forward, new material will dry up fairly quickly unless one is planning a Disney Princess kind of AP.

So sad it has come to this.

You have such little faith in Paizo’s creative ability?


11 people marked this as a favorite.
Sunderstone wrote:
So sad it has come to this.

I have no doubt that Paizo will give us amazing story lines without having to deal with things that are too close to reality for a large segment of the audience.

Dark Archive

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I feel odd since I feel this apology IS necessary(writers are from USA a country where this matter has been problem for decades or centuries), but whole reason I was hyped for AP was that its about PCs taking the usual unnamed npc role of town guards. My country's police doesn't have bad reputation overall so that probably plays part in it.

Like its hard to figure out how to feel when at same time I acknowledge that this AP is problematic for context, but at same time I don't "feel" like it is inherently problematic topic to make ap about? I dunno how to describe it yet.

Liberty's Edge

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
blog above wrote:
The events of the Agents of Edgewatch campaign assume empathic, heroic player characters who are there to serve their community.

I want to highlight this right here.

All my campaigns, and the basic campaign since 2nd edition of D&D, with a few exceptions, have strived to have a heroic backdrop and sense of characters for the players in the game. I like playing "The good guy" in a game and having the players be a heroic team in the game. I have found that there is some grey area in some areas with Paizo concerning enemies, where one needs to think on their actions and question whether or not those appearing opposite the character are friend or foe.

It is this type of storytelling that makes one think about consequences and causes one to pause for a moment to make sure we are doing the right thing.

Though the subject does parallel the current crisis, it isn't something to apologize for when keeping the quote above in mind. We are heroes in a fantasy (mostly) world, doing our best to make Golaroin a safer place to live.


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Building off what thaX is saying, I think we all understand that APs differ in terms of "what's expected from the PCs." Sometimes expected to be some ethically dubious individuals (e.g. Skull and Shackles), and sometimes you can be anywhere in terms of your moral character and it works (e.g. Reign of Winter, Strange Aeons), but sometimes you're expected to play the good guys and it's not really okay to not act like one of the good guys.

Agents of Edgewatch is one in which you should really play paragons of virtue and goodness. Be the kind of officer that the only people who could realistically criticize your conduct are the powerful, not the powerless.

Scarab Sages

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quote:
While we cannot afford to cancel or delay the Adventure Path, we want to show our commitment to remedying our earlier choices through action.

Sadly, this is just unfortunate timing on Paizo's part and no foresight would have prepared you to a common trope. For example True/Fictional Crime books and podcasts are 20-40% of consumption. I appreciate the dedication to the community to release a statement. With that said; there are several members of the community that are either military, veterans, cops, ex-police, children of police, security guards, etc etc... Personally this is an AP that I have been looking forward to and am still looking forward to it. Esp given James S. was involved in the process.

Is this an insensitive topic at this time in the US? Yes. This is a lose-lose conversation, and no matter what response you have is pandering from one audience. As to "remedying our earlier choices through action?" Are you going to remedy every choice you've made as an organization? I own APs that are outright more offensive than this topic. At what point do you even have a product line as a company?

Silver Crusade

32 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sliska Zafir wrote:
Tolkien's Uruk-Hai were not peaceful or civilized.

This one keeps coming back and I can't refuse to rehash this, because it always sends at least one person foaming at the mouth - Tolkien was a fantastic writer, scholar, gentleman and visionary.

He was also something of an idiot. High Int, low Wis.

Tolkien, a conservative British religious scholar, had his fears, and one of the greatest fears of his was that the pastoral rural English countryside (Shire) will be overrun by barbarians from the East. Tolkien, you see, like many of you Westerners to this day, considered that the refined, toodle-pip civilisation ended on the river Oder. Beyond that were the savage wastelands populated by hordes of increasingly primitive, culture-less and dangerous barely-humans.

Fueled by this fear, he wrote his books as a clash between the not-Europeans and not-Jews versus Asian Hordes - he flat out modelled Orcs after Mongols, Haradrim after Arabs, Easterlings as Far Asians etc. etc. giving the rise to the monoculture idea, which was happily picked up by many at that time. Because guess what, for some reason the concept of "all people from group X are bad" was popular at that time, who would have thought?

Tolkien later admitted to that being an error when he realised that his allegory at civilisation clash could lead to fueling racism, which he was staunchly against. His views ultimately were influenced by a cruel prank of fate that saw him witness the pastoral rural English not-Shire in flames and death, not because of a Mongol invasion, but because other Western people dropped bombs on it while screaming about racial superiority.

As an Eastern European who has endured his share of "so do you people even have electricity in Poland?" questions from cultured, refined, educated people in the West and beyond, I can only imagine what people with a different skin tone get.

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm here for the community.


16 people marked this as a favorite.

I feel like a lot of folks have been threatening to storm off ever since Shardra was revealed as the Iconic Shaman, perhaps earlier.

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