Tales of Lost Omens

Now either Lastwall is missing, or its name is covered up by the Eye of Dread title. But, I think maybe the knightliest knights might be kaput.

There's a named river bellow Geb in the Inner Sea Map, but what's the name of the land in which it flows? It's a large land and there seems to be nothing there. It's a good place for a new nation to rise.

So how will campaign settings be done in the future? Will they continue to be done country by country-for example, Realm of the Mammoth Lords (hint hint) or can we expect a Saga Lands sourcebook?

There's a named river bellow Geb in the Inner Sea Map, but what's the name of the land in which it flows? It's a large land and there seems to be nothing there. It's a good place for a new nation to rise.

We actually know what's south of Geb. The Field of Maidens, with thousands of statues, serving as a barrier between Geb and Holomog, a matriarchal Good-aligned Empire we've heard relatively little about.

So how will campaign settings be done in the future? Will they continue to be done country by country-for example, Realm of the Mammoth Lords (hint hint) or can we expect a Saga Lands sourcebook?

The latter. They've basically said as much.

Is it selfish that I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the city of An to be fleshed out? I'm running Mummy's Mask, and hoping to do some one-shots in the region for when players can't make it, and An is a fascinating idea of a place, the third largest city in the country, near a whole heap of pyramids to explore, gladiator pits, across the water from Tephu and just upriver from Wati. A really good launching pad for adventurers. And yet there doesn't seem to be a single map, or more of a description than what's in Osirion: Legacy of Pharaohs. I COULD homebrew something, but I'm still learning the DMing ropes already. Even if it's specifically for 2e, I'd love to be able to do something with An. Especially with how the state Mummy's Mask leaves Osirion in.

Zi Mishkal wrote:

The old Mystara campaigner in me cringes a little at "Broken Lands" (the region of Brun home to humanoid tribes) and the similarity of "Eye of Dread" to the X1 Adventure the "Isle of Dread".

I am hoping that there will be a little more of the surrounding world added in to give a sense of place in the larger world. It's been more than a decade, after all. Someone has to have walked east and returned...

Also, the new map style is nice.

From the product description :

The Lost Omens World Guide is your key to understanding the big picture and your hero's role within it! A gorgeous two-sided giant poster map of the Pathfinder world provides a beautiful accompaniment to a gazetteer featuring 10 geographically and thematically contiguous regions

So, at least, and at last, we will have a complete world map ;-)

To be fair, the term "pathfinder world" could be used colloquially to mean the area covered by the product line. Moreover, we already have a world map - though it might be wildly inaccurate.

I also hope that they have some actual cartography experience at this point and the 2.0 reboot is an incentive to nail down the cartography a little more firmly. Besides the obvious mapping mess that was the Kingmaker AP, there were other problems with the Inner Sea in that it didn't take into account the fact that Golarion is a globe.

And since I don't want to end on a negative note, I will say that the campaign line is definitely the strongest part of Paizo's product line. Whatever comes of 2e, I remain heavily invested in Golarion lore and look forward to more of it!

Blog wrote:

Fans of past Pathfinder Tales novels will be happy to know that we've gotten some of our most prolific authors to return for this series, so stay tuned!

EXCITEMENT INTENSIFIES

SIMILAR LEVELS OF EXCITEMENT; have been collecting quite a number of Audible credits for more novels ^^

Rysky wrote:

Blog wrote:

Fans of past Pathfinder Tales novels will be happy to know that we've gotten some of our most prolific authors to return for this series, so stay tuned!

EXCITEMENT INTENSIFIES

SIMILAR LEVELS OF EXCITEMENT; have been collecting quite a number of Audible credits for more novels ^^

Nice!

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

There's a named river bellow Geb in the Inner Sea Map, but what's the name of the land in which it flows? It's a large land and there seems to be nothing there. It's a good place for a new nation to rise.

We actually know what's south of Geb. The Field of Maidens, with thousands of statues, serving as a barrier between Geb and Holomog, a matriarchal Good-aligned Empire we've heard relatively little about.

alexgndl wrote:

So how will campaign settings be done in the future? Will they continue to be done country by country-for example, Realm of the Mammoth Lords (hint hint) or can we expect a Saga Lands sourcebook?

The latter. They've basically said as much.

Really? I didn't know that. Cool. I just searched about it and I'm afraid I'm even more terrified by Geb and his ways of retribution.

The Raven Black wrote:

Zi Mishkal wrote:

The old Mystara campaigner in me cringes a little at "Broken Lands" (the region of Brun home to humanoid tribes) and the similarity of "Eye of Dread" to the X1 Adventure the "Isle of Dread".

I am hoping that there will be a little more of the surrounding world added in to give a sense of place in the larger world. It's been more than a decade, after all. Someone has to have walked east and returned...

Also, the new map style is nice.

From the product description :

The Lost Omens World Guide is your key to understanding the big picture and your hero's role within it! A gorgeous two-sided giant poster map of the Pathfinder world provides a beautiful accompaniment to a gazetteer featuring 10 geographically and thematically contiguous regions

So, at least, and at last, we will have a complete world map ;-)

To be fair, the term "pathfinder world" could be used colloquially to mean the area covered by the product line. Moreover, we already have a world map - though it might be wildly inaccurate.

I also hope that they have some actual cartography experience at this point and the 2.0 reboot is an incentive to nail down the cartography a little more firmly. Besides the obvious mapping mess that was the Kingmaker AP, there were other problems with the Inner Sea in that it didn't take into account the fact that Golarion is a globe.

And since I don't want to end on a negative note, I will say that the campaign line is definitely the strongest part of Paizo's product line. Whatever comes of 2e, I remain heavily invested in Golarion lore and look forward to more of it!

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Glob of Golarion (go to 28:00).

Really? I didn't know that. Cool. I just searched about it and I'm afraid I'm even more terrified by Geb and his ways of retribution.

Baba Yaga and her CR 30 aside (and it's likely he equals her there), Geb is by far the single scariest thing in the Inner Sea/Lost Omens region. He's just on another tier of power entirely from every other ruler in the area...by like 10-15 CR.

But here it is, the animated Glob...

Awesome. Evokes the imagination! Now, I want a google maps version, complete with video images of particular areas. Make it so, Paizo. ;)

The Golden Road name took longest to find of all 10 regions.

Title based off of the real world Silk Roads?

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Glob...

Well, I am a VERY happy cartographer! Thanks :) :)

That's... really... BIG.

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

Really? I didn't know that. Cool. I just searched about it and I'm afraid I'm even more terrified by Geb and his ways of retribution.

Baba Yaga and her CR 30 aside (and it's likely he equals her there), Geb is by far the single scariest thing in the Inner Sea/Lost Omens region. He's just on another tier of power entirely from every other ruler in the area...by like 10-15 CR.

Except for may be

Kind of interesting the implications of both high level rulers having such an obvious similarity.

It looks like Old Cheliax doesn't extend to the northwestern tip of Garund. I wonder if this means Cheliax lost control of the Arch of Aroden, or if the sea is used as the border just for simplicity on the large scale map.

I think Cheliax did indeed lose their little sliver of land in Garund in Hell's Vengeance.

And it's not like anyone was crossing the Arch of Aroden anyway -- the Arch has been broken near the middle for at least several decades.

While Galt seems like it would fit most naturally in the "broken lands" since it's, well, broken, I feel like a big consideration to these groupings is so we can give equal weight to each region. I assume, at least, that the plan is to do a book for each region (instead of the PF1 campaign setting line having like a book for Nidal, a book for Varisia, etc.) So it wouldn't do to have one region book to have 2x more stuff than another.

I'm assuming Sargava not being on the map is because the folks living there have rejected the colonial name imposed on them and and have chosen something else, a phenomenon we often see in post-colonial societies (i.e. why your map no longer has a Ceylon, Gold Coast, Burma, Siam, or Spanish East Indies on it).

Mervikoth wrote:

Unless it's been renamed, Realm of the Mammoth Lords is incorrectly labelled Realm of the Mammoth Lands on the map.

As long as it's in the appropriate reigon, that's what matters, right?

You guys are gonna wake the Searing Eye of Mona. {starts rubbing on sunscreen of fire resistance +9000}

I assume Vidrian IS Sargava; it's located in almost exactly the same place.

I think the updated map is nifty and the Lost Omens hardcover is on my wishlist, but... can I very gently poke someone(s) at Paizo to remind them that a bunch of us out here would still love to see Southern Garund and Vudra explored?

And Arcadia and Casmaron!

I think the updated map is nifty and the Lost Omens hardcover is on my wishlist, but... can I very gently poke someone(s) at Paizo to remind them that a bunch of us out here would still love to see Southern Garund and Vudra explored?

We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :P

Deadmanwalking wrote:

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

Really? I didn't know that. Cool. I just searched about it and I'm afraid I'm even more terrified by Geb and his ways of retribution.

Baba Yaga and her CR 30 aside (and it's likely he equals her there), Geb is by far the single scariest thing in the Inner Sea/Lost Omens region. He's just on another tier of power entirely from every other ruler in the area...by like 10-15 CR.

Except for may be

** spoiler omitted **

Kind of interesting the implications of both high level rulers having such an obvious similarity.

Well the blurb for book 6 of Tyrant's Grasp includes the line end the threat he now poses to the world...so maybe not?

I assume Vidrian IS Sargava; it's located in almost exactly the same place.

Almost but not quite. It is not clear whether Vidrian is a nation to the south that absorbed Sargava, Sargava changed its name to Vidrian and expanded southwards, or Sargava simply ceased to exist as a unified colony.

Except for may be

** spoiler omitted **

Kind of interesting the implications of both high level rulers having such an obvious similarity.

Not if they stick with his PF1 stats in terms of power level. By PF1, the character you mention is an absurd CR 26, the same CR as Arazni. While Geb's stats are unrevealed, in Geb and Arazni's relationship, Geb is very clearly the more powerful one.

So Geb's more hardcore than he is.

Your not Hardcore, unless you live Hardcore! lol

j b 200 wrote:

Except for may be

** spoiler omitted **

Kind of interesting the implications of both high level rulers having such an obvious similarity.

Not if they stick with his PF1 stats in terms of power level. By PF1, the character you mention is an absurd CR 26, the same CR as Arazni. While Geb's stats are unrevealed, in Geb and Arazni's relationship, Geb is very clearly the more powerful one.

So Geb's more hardcore than he is.

CR is not the be-all, end-all of power dynamics

CR is not the be-all, end-all of power dynamics

Fair enough. :)

It is true that Geb has no evidence of being able to effortlessly command limitless armies of undead...

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Globe of Golarion...

...Huh, Arcadia's kinda tiny...

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Globe of Golarion...

...Huh, Arcadia's kinda tiny...

Are we watching the same Globe?

j b 200 wrote:

Except for may be

** spoiler omitted **

Kind of interesting the implications of both high level rulers having such an obvious similarity.

Not if they stick with his PF1 stats in terms of power level. By PF1, the character you mention is an absurd CR 26, the same CR as Arazni. While Geb's stats are unrevealed, in Geb and Arazni's relationship, Geb is very clearly the more powerful one.

So Geb's more hardcore than he is.

I would love to see Geb's stats, but first we need to actually see Geb himself. As well as Nex. Those are the two figures in all the Inner Sea Region that I want to know more about the most - even more than I want to know about Mengkare.

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Globe of Golarion...

...Huh, Arcadia's kinda tiny...

I thinks it's the third largest continent, smaller than Casmaron and Tian Xia. But indeed, it ins't much larger than Garund.

Now that I think about it, I think the distinction between "Old Cheliax" and the other regions is that Cheliax controlled all of that region until very recently. The only nation in that region not currently controlled by Cheliax is Ravounel, and it only broke free very recently, during the events of Hell's Rebels.

Will there be a synopsis of the new geopolitical groupings in the book and the reasons why there are new place names?

Will there be any information on the old Greek style area?

I think so, Iblydos is one of the nearest Casmaron regions to Avistan. The point was that its rulers and important people are all mythic quasi-deities and demigods, though. So it could get only a cursory glance for a while.

Well I applaud you for going forward in history with the new setting book. I also kinda hope that at least some of the changes will be based on a "everything went wrong" scenario for the AP in question (Yeah, probably won't happen, but still).

Don't like that "meta-region" concept too much. I hope that it will be very easy to ignore (as in: nearly not visible) in the final book. Meaning that if it is used like comparable terms in the Forgotten Realms (Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Unapproachable East etc.), it's ok, but if it's anything more than that,I'll probably continue to adapt the APs to other settings rather than play in Golarion.

Don't like that "meta-region" concept too much. I hope that it will be very easy to ignore (as in: nearly not visible) in the final book. Meaning that if it is used like comparable terms in the Forgotten Realms (Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Unapproachable East etc.), it's ok, but if it's anything more than that,I'll probably continue to adapt the APs to other settings rather than play in Golarion.

I'm honestly at a loss for what else they would be used for - and why it might matter, one way or another.

The Golux wrote:

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

You can actually see the new World Map that is included in the Lost Omens World Guide in one of the Pathfinder Friday episodes. You can watch it on Paizo's Twitch or Youtube channel.

But here it is, the animated Globe of Golarion...

...Huh, Arcadia's kinda tiny...

Are we watching the same Globe?

On another look, I think I was comparing it to Casmaron and Tian Xia, and also my expectation of it being a bit wider.

Also Casmaron is bigger than I expected.

Don't like that "meta-region" concept too much. I hope that it will be very easy to ignore (as in: nearly not visible) in the final book. Meaning that if it is used like comparable terms in the Forgotten Realms (Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Unapproachable East etc.), it's ok, but if it's anything more than that,I'll probably continue to adapt the APs to other settings rather than play in Golarion.

I believe it's confirmed that the chapters in the World Guide will be named after/organized by the meta regions.

Well I applaud you for going forward in history with the new setting book. I also kinda hope that at least some of the changes will be based on a "everything went wrong" scenario for the AP in question (Yeah, probably won't happen, but still).

One thing to keep in mind is that for every AP, there are going to be groups who have fond memories of their triumph in that particular AP and there's no reason for James Jacobs (or whomever) to come in from on high and invalidate those people's experiences. Or at the very least create more work for a GM in rewriting the setting to reflect what happened in an earlier game.

It's probably better if we put the "extra work" in the column of "A GM wants to make an earlier AP end poorly" than the other way around. Plus more than a few APs have "world ending" potential if they go badly, so like Wrath of the Righteous, Strange Aeons, Reign of Winter, Second Darkness, etc. Plus they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with APs which are direct sequels to a previous one, Starfinder concluding that Iron Gods went well, etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing what happened if the Glorious Reclamation succeeded (our group of evildoers betrayed Cheliax in HV because they hated the do-gooders less than they hated Thrune), but I am sure there are people who would be upset if that were canonical.

I'm honestly at a loss for what else they would be used for - and why it might matter, one way or another.

There are two things about this. One being my general dislike of technical terms that shoehorn things together that are very different from another. I can understand why you would do this during the design process, but I don't want to see it shine through in the finished product (4e powers are an example that made just reading the rulebooks really painful for me). Especially when some of the terms aren't regional descriptions (like Mwangi Expanse) but evoke certain themes and topics that there's no reason at all why they should be restricted to the regions in question at all. Which is kinda my fear that it'll lead to for creators and designers to come.

Also I don't see how this makes things more accessible for anyone who uses the books. I don't even think that should be a goal because there's no need for it. The old books are accessible enough for anyone with the basic ability to read and that's all that's needed.

In the end it's more of a gut feeling, and as I am already on the fence of using Golarion as a setting to run games in the future, I might overreact to things like that.

One thing to keep in mind is that for every AP, there are going to be groups who have fond memories of their triumph in that particular AP and there's no reason for James Jacobs (or whomever) to come in from on high and invalidate those people's experiences. Or at the very least create more work for a GM in rewriting the setting to reflect what happened in an earlier game.

Happens anyway, because the new setting status overwrites everything that has happened in my games that is different from said status. So someone's experience gets "invalidated" (if you believe in that line of thinking. I don't.) It is what it is, but I'd prefer Paizo to make such decisions based on what makes the setting more interesting and not on what's best for business. But then I don't have to pay any bills like they do, and somehow it seems like my preferences are never good for business, so I don't expect them to do anything based on what I'd like them to do.

I wouldn't mind seeing what happened if the Glorious Reclamation succeeded (our group of evildoers betrayed Cheliax in HV because they hated the do-gooders less than they hated Thrune), but I am sure there are people who would be upset if that were canonical.

I'm running Hell's Rebels and my friend is concurrently running Hell's Vengeance. He's having to rewrite large parts of the campaign because his players have decided to basically play the ends against the middle; they betrayed Cheliax, joined forces with the Glorious Reclamation, and are now planning to conquer Cheliax and then betray the Glorious Reclamation. XD

Also I don't see how this makes things more accessible for anyone who uses the books. I don't even think that should be a goal because there's no need for it. The old books are accessible enough for anyone with the basic ability to read and that's all that's needed.

Hard disagree. Going through forty separate countries one by one made the old Inner Sea World Guide very intimidating, and having them organized alphabetically instead of by relation to each other made cross referencing a huge pain.

Grouping countries into "these countries are related and interact with each other regularly" and then talking about those regions instead of countries one by one is a huge improvement IMO.

Edit: As an aside, improving accessibility is very important; it's hugely beneficial to the overall health of the game. More accessibility = more people playing = healthier game. For a good example of how important it can be, see the huge number of people who were turned off to the playtest by how poorly formatted the book was.

So the question is "which APs have failure states that are more interesting than the success states?

I figure things like "Golarion is gripped with eternal winter" or "Earthfall 2.0" or "Xamen-Dhor consumes all of Golarion" are right out. Just because we put Tar-Baphon, Baba Yaga, or Ydersius back in their holes doesn't mean we can't get them out again. Rebuilding Lost Sarkoris is more interesting than the Worldwound, a potential major reform period in Taldor is more interesting than the same-old same-old, making a new country out of Ravounel is more interesting than not-doing-that, etc.

If we want to introduce a new Sword of Damocles hovering over the Inner Sea, it's probably better to introduce a new one, or to resolve a previously mentioned but largely unaddressed one, than to assume previous efforts to fix a problem did not succeed. I also want to underline that feeling like "we can wreck things outside of Avistan, and it will be fine" is directly contrary to the goal of "getting more stories in those places", so let's not do that.

I believe James Jacobs is on record saying that he thinks Curse of the Crimson Throne is more interesting in its failure state than success state. I haven't run that AP so I can't comment.

Will there be a synopsis of the new geopolitical groupings in the book and the reasons why there are new place names?

Yep! That's the whole point of the book. Each region gets a full chapter that explains what's going on there, including any new or updated locations.

Don't like that "meta-region" concept too much. I hope that it will be very easy to ignore (as in: nearly not visible) in the final book. Meaning that if it is used like comparable terms in the Forgotten Realms (Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Unapproachable East etc.), it's ok, but if it's anything more than that,I'll probably continue to adapt the APs to other settings rather than play in Golarion.

This is largely the purpose. No one in-world uses these names, at least not that we've explicitly said in print so far. That's why I call them meta-regions. They're to help us organize the book and to give players and GMs common terms for different parts of the world. Apart from how the book is organized and how we refer to general regions instead of specific nations, you should be able to entirely ignore the new meta-regions if you want.

So the question is "which APs have failure states that are more interesting than the success states?

Yeah and I accept that everyone will have another answer to that. The thing is that I'm mostly interested in the answer the designers would give to that question if they had free creative reign and didn't have to care about business one bit.

From a personal perspective, I would have loved to see the setting develop from Karzoug winning over the PC. I would have loved seeing Ileosa going one-on-one against Abigail. I would have loved to see House Thrune be eradicated from Golarion as thoroughly as possible and I kinda rooted for the Hobgoblins in Ironfang Invasion. I agree with you about Taldor and disagree about Lost Sarkoris.

Apart from how the book is organized and how we refer to general regions instead of specific nations, you should be able to entirely ignore the new meta-regions if you want.

Thanks for the clarification. :)