Iconic Evolution: Seoni

I'm a little disappointed by this redesign. Paizo has already filled the design space of "cloaked, staff-wielding Mage" with their Iconic Wizard,

Oracle, Arcanist, and Summoner,

Those haven’t been released for 2e yet so I highly doubt they won’t also get updated art when they do.

I still don't understand how her legs sleeves work. Are they just stapled into her calf muscles, or what? I can't think of any way those wouldn't just slip down.

I do think for the pf2 iconics in general, the outfits seem consistently oversized, making the characters seem a little child-like. That Seoni is also peeking out from behind her hair magnifies this look.

I still don't understand how her legs sleeves work. Are they just stapled into her calf muscles, or what? I can't think of any way those wouldn't just slip down.

Maybe what look to be gaiters are actually knee-high boots and the yellow piece is ornamentation?

They could be really tall boots that have been turned down at the top of the calf similar to a cavalier boot.

Pennate wrote:

I'm a little disappointed by this redesign. Paizo has already filled the design space of "cloaked, staff-wielding Mage" with their Iconic Wizard,

Ezren has a scarf, not a full on cloak.

Quote:

Oracle, Arcanist, and Summoner,

Those haven’t been released for 2e yet so I highly doubt they won’t also get updated art when they do.

Also, just saying that Seoni have always owned a staff. It was just very weirdly drawn.

As with the other updates... the more I look at this, the more I like it.

Rysky wrote:

Pennate wrote:

I'm a little disappointed by this redesign. Paizo has already filled the design space of "cloaked, staff-wielding Mage" with their Iconic Wizard,

Ezren has a scarf, not a full on cloak.

Quote:

Oracle, Arcanist, and Summoner,

Those haven’t been released for 2e yet so I highly doubt they won’t also get updated art when they do.

Also, just saying that Seoni have always owned a staff. It was just very weirdly drawn.

It was also slung across her back and thus less emphasized in the Iconic portrait.

Thanks I absolutely hate it.

Just going to leave this here for anyone who prefers the original design.

Buy a statue for great justice.

Oh...And now I'm going to have to go spend $200 dollars.

Once again, I am very disappointed in the new art. I have decided that the artwork in second edition is just going to be a huge negative for me. I have been wavering on the migration for 2e for awhile and this definitely is not helping. This is nowhere the same portrayal design as the previous despite what was said from Paizo.

Removed a post and the responses to it. See Sara Marie’s second moderator post on the previous page.

This is nowhere the same portrayal design as the previous despite what was said from Paizo.

???

Alceste008 wrote:

This is nowhere the same portrayal design as the previous despite what was said from Paizo.

???

I cast tongues.

ok here is my gripe.... that it is confirmed what my gripe is for the reason that I prefer her old look.

Her Cloak. The Trim on it, would have been better if it was a shade of red.

Rysky wrote:

Alceste008 wrote:

This is nowhere the same portrayal design as the previous despite what was said from Paizo.

???

I cast tongues.

That spell has the most misleading name. Something something "succubus in a grapple" thread.

I think he means the style is too different and these are barely the same characters, despite what we were told. And I will say Seoni doesnt feel like the same person, though I honestly contribute that more to the hairstyle and color personally, same with Harsk. But I dont mind the difference (though prefer the old hair on her) and I think she looks more like her personality from the comics and whatnot

Removed a post and the replies to it. This is not the thread to discuss forum moderation. If you have issues with the forum moderation you can send an email to community@paizo.com.

I think he means the style is too different and these are barely the same characters, despite what we were told. And I will say Seoni doesnt feel like the same person, though I honestly contribute that more to the hairstyle and color personally, same with Harsk. But I dont mind the difference (though prefer the old hair on her) and I think she looks more like her personality from the comics and whatnot

You are correct. These do not feel like the same characters at all despite Paizo stating that they would be. If they wanted character redesigns then Paizo should have just gone ahead and spent the time to create new characters rather than creating this mess. This does reflect poorly on second edition.

Now, my main concern is letting my players and venture agents know how negative my thoughts on second edition have become.

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:

I think he means the style is too different and these are barely the same characters, despite what we were told. And I will say Seoni doesnt feel like the same person, though I honestly contribute that more to the hairstyle and color personally, same with Harsk. But I dont mind the difference (though prefer the old hair on her) and I think she looks more like her personality from the comics and whatnot

You are correct. These do not feel like the same characters at all despite Paizo stating that they would be. If they wanted character redesigns then Paizo should have just gone ahead and spent the time to create new characters rather than creating this mess. This does reflect poorly on second edition.

Now, my main concern is letting my players and venture agents know how negative my thoughts on second edition have become.

I personally don't see that at all. They are all recognizable to me as the same person as before, with slightly altered apparel (some more than others) and equipment.

Removed some unhelpful comments. Flag it and move on.

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:

I think he means the style is too different and these are barely the same characters, despite what we were told. And I will say Seoni doesnt feel like the same person, though I honestly contribute that more to the hairstyle and color personally, same with Harsk. But I dont mind the difference (though prefer the old hair on her) and I think she looks more like her personality from the comics and whatnot

You are correct. These do not feel like the same characters at all despite Paizo stating that they would be. If they wanted character redesigns then Paizo should have just gone ahead and spent the time to create new characters rather than creating this mess. This does reflect poorly on second edition.

Now, my main concern is letting my players and venture agents know how negative my thoughts on second edition have become.

I still, for the life of me, do not understand the “I don’t like the art therefore I don’t like the game” mentality. It just feels so utterly petty.

I still, for the life of me, do not understand the “I don’t like the art therefore I don’t like the game” mentality. It just seems so petty.

For me (and only me), it's simply the last factor determining whether or not I'm going to buy it. I love good art, and I've commissioned a couple dozen pieces at this point. Art gives me inspiration, it makes me more interested in a game, and especially when I'm not going to be GMing an AP volume soon, I find it interesting and enjoyable to look at.

I dislike the new art style. All of the characters appear to have slimmer lines, but what was done to Merisiel in particular was horrifying for me, because she's the go-to example for elves, as far as I can tell. That's the point which is most critical to me, because they're my favorite species in Fantasy. I find the art of her ugly, full-stop.

This one, of Seoni? It isn't bad, but I find the hair color clashes, I liked the old color and hairstyle better. It's the same with most of the iconics, too. Some of them feel fine to me, Ezren and Kyra as examples, and I don't have opinions on... half of them, I'd say. But the other half are negative to severe negative for me.

Essentially, the overall art style (like for hobgoblins) is bad enough for me personally that I won't be buying the game unless the system wows me, or if art in the coming months changes my mind. That's the main reason I haven't left yet, I'm watching and waiting to see what happens.

I admit that I have always put function before form and have always had trouble appreciating visual art beyond the most basic levels but still...
I know I’m a broken record at this point but if you don’t like a game or system it should be because of the game or system. Not over whether the company that made it does or doesn’t have an artist you like. Again as a broken record. I’ve played a number of excellent games and systems, some that I like more than PF, with either no art or art so bad that no art would have been better. Plus Wayne isn’t going to be doing all of the art if people just don’t like his. (I think it’s fine but what do I know?)

Whatever. I’ll try to leave it be from here on out.

The point I'm trying to make is that the art is enormously important to some people. Having trouble appreciating visual art isn't a problem, it just is what it is. For me, it may not be incredibly important, but it's something that is probably at least 10% of my purchasing decision on a product, if not even more than that.

Like the changes and I am glad that her belt has been changed. Was not a fan of that. Surprised that the most important thing has not been commented on yet^^

Lately I was wondering: Seoni would probably qualify for the old tattooed sorcerer archetype, and her face, arms and legs are accordingly covered with ink - but, do Varisian tattooed sorcerers get all the tattoos from the start and nothing else down the road but perhaps for some magic ones working like scrolls, or do they start at 1st level with only some tattoos which cover more and more of their skin as they level up?

Maybe I'm confusing the issue with Shoanti totemic tattoos, which start relatively limited and grow to encompass a big portion of their bodies with time...

{. . .}

Bloodline Tattoos (Ex): Whenever a tattooed sorcerer gains a bloodline spell, a new tattoo manifests on her body to represent this spell. Her bloodline spells are always enhanced by her Varisian Tattoo feat, even if they don’t match the school to which her Varisian Tattoo belongs.
{. . .}

Looks to me like Tattooed Sorcerers have at least moderate tattoo accumulation as they level up.

Tattooed Sorcerer wrote:

{. . .}

Bloodline Tattoos (Ex): Whenever a tattooed sorcerer gains a bloodline spell, a new tattoo manifests on her body to represent this spell. Her bloodline spells are always enhanced by her Varisian Tattoo feat, even if they don’t match the school to which her Varisian Tattoo belongs.
{. . .}

Looks to me like Tattooed Sorcerers have at least moderate tattoo accumulation as they level up.

I knew I wasn't completely pulling it out of my ass! Thank you UnArcane Election for looking it up!

With the benefit of retrospect, a lot of my complaints with the art have come down to pose and positioning and probably results in the pictures having to be dynamic and exciting, but without anything to give them context.

I may not know why Kyra's standing with her legs spread so wide or why Amiri's making that duck-face, but while they do look a bit weird at times, it's ultimately preferable to the characters looking as though they were posing for DMV photos (Harsk does come close, but it kinda works for a dwarf)

^Now I want to see artwork of Starfinder Iconics in a Pact World equivalent of the DMV . . . .

Hm, I prefer the old artwork, to be honest.

The cloak is a little "clashy" black.

Maybe if it was gold (matching the trim of the rest of her outfit) or white (matching her staff) or even blue (matching her tattoos)?

It looks blue to me, and the silver sigils on it do line up with her tats in contrast.