Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign Begins!

So this is going to be written in 2e but with a 1e bestiary for all those who prefer 1e? I'm a bit confused.

So this is going to be written in 2e but with a 1e bestiary for all those who prefer 1e? I'm a bit confused.

Completely written in 2E, but with two additional bestiaries that you can purchase. A DnD 5E, and a Pathfinder 1E. That is my understanding.

Yes. Way I read it, you play the PF2 adventures and as soon as a stat-block appears, you instead use the equivalent stat-block from the PF1 or 5e Bestiary according to the system you use.

Whoa.

Huh.

Not happy about that.

But okay.

Not sure why you are unhappy. It's a completely optional product fro people playing other system. You are not missing anything.

Does anybody know what the level cap will be with the new content? Will it top at 20th level?

Any idea when this will be available?

Does anybody know what the level cap will be with the new content? Will it top at 20th level?

The adventure itself has had four pretty sizable new chapters (a new beginning, a new ending, and new chapter between what was books 2 and 3, and a new chapter between what was books 5 and 6) added to it, as well as lots of other adjustments along the way. That content all on its own is more than enough for a party to reach 20th level, and in fact if you have a group of completionists, they'll probably hit 20th level well before finishing the penultimate chapter. And then there are 7 more short adventures in the Companion Guide.

It will still top out at 20th level, since that's as far as our game goes, but there's plenty of content to reach there. Probably even if you use the slow XP option!

Any idea when this will be available?

With the shipping crisis, the constant back and forth of covid causing mayhem, and the last several months at Paizo being particularly complex and having placed an unusual amount of emotional and professional strain on everyone involved, I don't personally. I'm HOPING it'll be out by Paizocon. Once folks are back in the office in early January, we'll be having a (virtual) meeting to figure out what needs to be done to get this all finished up, at which point we in the office will have a more-solid-than-ever idea of its schedule, but the decision as to when and how to announce that to the public is above my pay grade. I have been and will continue to push for more visibility there as best I can, but at the same time, this project has been particularly tough, so I can't push as hard as I want.

So alas, I don't have more to say on that other than another likely "usde up its good grace" request for another few weeks of patience at least while we try to get something out on this thing's schedule.

When the student is ready, the master is there.

I have full trust in James Jacobs and his coworkers. Thanks all for the hard work. I know it will be beyond compare.

Do we know the date of next PaizoCon?

Do we know the date of next PaizoCon?

End of May according to the Organized Play site.

Do we know the date of next PaizoCon?

Paizocon has been pretty regularly a Memorial Day Weekened event for the past several years. I don't know what this year's plans are, but they aren't locked into Kingmaker's release or vice versa. My hope is that Kingmaker is out by then, but that's all that is.

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

Are the original rules there with the 1e bestiary?

Are the original rules there with the 1e bestiary?

Been on AoN for years now. https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Kingdoms%20and%20War&Category=Option al%20Rule%20Systems

Freehold DM wrote:

Are the original rules there with the 1e bestiary?

Been on AoN for years now: Optional Rules (1E)

Linked for convenience.

Carry on,

--C.

James Jacobs wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

Are the original rules there with the 1e bestiary?

No. The 1E bestiary is ONLY 160 pages of monster/NPC and trap/hazard stats.

Freehold DM wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

Are the original rules there with the 1e bestiary?

No. The 1E bestiary is ONLY 160 pages of monster/NPC and trap/hazard stats.

Okay just curious. I know they were a bit divisive. I liked them though. Would be interested in seeing what they look like now.

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathfinder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

Thank your for the answer!

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

So it's a completely new sub system and not just a rehash of the Ultimate Campaign rules?

James Jacobs wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

So it's a completely new sub system and not just a rehash of the Ultimate Campaign rules?

It's new. In 1st edition, your kingdom was a new subsystem of rules based on a new mechanic: build points. That new mechanic did the work, but it was also something that players could abuse and that was really complicated. You know when you hear stories that players were building towns filled with nothing but graveyards and dumps that something wasn't working right!

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP parallel to the party; the kingdom can never be higher level than your group, so that helps to manage the growth of the kingdom through the campaign as well.

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

This is amazing - I love this.

We never finished Kingmaker in 1e because our GM threw up their arms when we broke this system. Hopefully this gives us a reason to go back!

James Jacobs wrote:

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

This is amazing - I love this.

We never finished Kingmaker in 1e because our GM threw up their arms when we broke this system. Hopefully this gives us a reason to go back!

Hope so! I'm pretty pleased with how it worked out. I would have loved to do something akin to a public playtest of the rules too, but that's not something Paizo has ever had the bandwidth to take on, alas, with actual class playtests taking a higher priority. Internal reviews, solo playtesting (done by me), and feedback from the design team should be enough though, I'm hoping! It's pretty self-contained after all, and doesn't have the wider-reaching concerns, I guess, that a brand new class that could potentially be in ANY game, would have.

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

Oh wow! I am so glad that I brought this up as this sounds even better than I could have thought.

Agreed, this new kingdom management system sound amazing!

I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. Are the kingdom rules for 1e going to different from those found in the Ultimate Campaign book?

???

The Anniversary Edition is for P2, not First, so it's going to use neither the P1 Kingmaker rules nor Ultimate Campaign, unless I'm further misunderstanding your inquiry.

Sounds cool. I figure James Jacobs won't let us down with Kingmaker.

I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. Are the kingdom rules for 1e going to different from those found in the Ultimate Campaign book?

The only rules content for 1e in this project is the bestiary, I believe.

I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. Are the kingdom rules for 1e going to different from those found in the Ultimate Campaign book?

The Kingdom Rules for 1E already exist in the context of Ultimate Campaign, or in the original publication. We aren't publishing a full 1E conversion of the new Kingmaker hardcover, or a 5E version. It's just a 2nd edition Pathfinder book. The only 1E and 5E products are the supplementary bestiaries, which will work to help you convert Kingmaker to the system of your choice, or (I suspect more likely) will be useful to you as a book containing hundreds of new stat blocks for the system of your choice.

Will there be campaign specific archetypes?

Will there be campaign specific archetypes?

No. At least, not in this book. There's a lot of campaign appropriate archetype choices and there'll be a section at the start that talks about that sort of character creation stuff. I think the idea is that we will produce some of that content as a free player's guide type PDF thingy like we do for our other Adventure Paths, but I learned years ago the wisdom of not promising things for Kingmaker. We'll see what comes of it in 2022.

Vardoc Bloodstone wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

This is amazing - I love this.

We never finished Kingmaker in 1e because our GM threw up their arms when we broke this system. Hopefully this gives us a reason to go back!

Hope so! I'm pretty pleased with how it worked out. I would have loved to do something akin to a public playtest of the rules too, but that's not something Paizo has ever had the bandwidth to take on, alas, with actual class playtests taking a higher priority. Internal reviews, solo playtesting (done by me), and feedback from the design team should be enough though, I'm hoping! It's pretty self-contained after all, and doesn't have the wider-reaching concerns, I guess, that a brand new class that could potentially be in ANY game, would have.

I think you understimate the influence you have on people playing this game. I think many people will use these rules as a strong basis for their own games.

Thank you for ... Everything, I guess :-)

Vanulf Wulfson wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

So it's a completely new sub system and not just a rehash of the Ultimate Campaign rules?

It's new. In 1st edition, your kingdom was a new subsystem of rules based on a new mechanic: build points. That new mechanic did the work, but it was also something that players could abuse and that was really complicated. You know when you hear stories that players were building towns filled with nothing but graveyards and dumps that something wasn't working right!

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

James, I'm trying to be upset here. Stop giving me things that intrigue me and make me interested in a new edition, dammit!

James Jacobs wrote:

Vanulf Wulfson wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

Was anything done with the Kingdom Management sub-system?

I DM'd the original AP with my home group, and have played the Owlcat CRPG. To tell the truth, I am hoping that that the Kingdom Management was "updated" to what is in the CRPG.

If no, I will either do something myself, or hope that one of the 3rd party folks does it.

thanks for any answers.

It's a new game edition, so the Kingdom Management system was rewritten from the ground up from its 1st edition version. It's role remains closer to how it worked in the 1st edition game, since the way it worked for the video game (as a series of narrative encounters with choose-your-own-adventure style choices and a VERY complex series of calculations and time-management steps better handled behind the scenes by a computer than by people playing a tabletop game) isn't really appropriate for the table.

The 2nd edition version of these rules instead presents the kingdom in a similar way to a character, sort of like how the Hell's Rebels rebellion worked, or how a starship works in Pathifnder, but taking full advantage of the new edition's rules.

So it's a completely new sub system and not just a rehash of the Ultimate Campaign rules?

It's new. In 1st edition, your kingdom was a new subsystem of rules based on a new mechanic: build points. That new mechanic did the work, but it was also something that players could abuse and that was really complicated. You know when you hear stories that players were building towns filled with nothing but graveyards and dumps that something wasn't working right!

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and

...

Finally, I can roleplay as a town.

Finally, I can roleplay as a town.

"No, I want to be Pittsburgh! Here, you can play Gloucester."

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Will there be campaign specific archetypes?

No. At least, not in this book. There's a lot of campaign appropriate archetype choices and there'll be a section at the start that talks about that sort of character creation stuff. I think the idea is that we will produce some of that content as a free player's guide type PDF thingy like we do for our other Adventure Paths, but I learned years ago the wisdom of not promising things for Kingmaker. We'll see what comes of it in 2022.

Gracias!

Vardoc Bloodstone wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

This is amazing - I love this.

We never finished Kingmaker in 1e because our GM threw up their arms when we broke this system. Hopefully this gives us a reason to go back!

Hope so! I'm pretty pleased with how it worked out. I would have loved to do something akin to a public playtest of the rules too, but that's not something Paizo has ever had the bandwidth to take on, alas, with actual class playtests taking a higher priority. Internal reviews, solo playtesting (done by me), and feedback from the design team should be enough though, I'm hoping! It's pretty self-contained after all, and doesn't have the wider-reaching concerns, I guess, that a brand new class that could potentially be in ANY game, would have.

As a very outspoken fan of the 1E Kingdom rules, I would have loved to be able to playtest the 2E rules. I guess I’ll just have to wait until the book comes out. Fortunately I can continue to be patient.

James Jacobs wrote:

Vardoc Bloodstone wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

In 2nd edition, your kingdom uses the character building rules. If you know how to build a character, you know how to build a kingdom already. Instead of an ancestry, a kingdom has a charter. Instead of a background, it has a type of government. And it has only one class: Kingdom. Beyond that it gets skills and feats and levels up with its own XP...

This is amazing - I love this.

We never finished Kingmaker in 1e because our GM threw up their arms when we broke this system. Hopefully this gives us a reason to go back!

Hope so! I'm pretty pleased with how it worked out. I would have loved to do something akin to a public playtest of the rules too, but that's not something Paizo has ever had the bandwidth to take on, alas, with actual class playtests taking a higher priority. Internal reviews, solo playtesting (done by me), and feedback from the design team should be enough though, I'm hoping! It's pretty self-contained after all, and doesn't have the wider-reaching concerns, I guess, that a brand new class that could potentially be in ANY game, would have.

As a very outspoken fan of the 1E Kingdom rules, I would have loved to be able to playtest the 2E rules. I guess I’ll just have to wait until the book comes out. Fortunately I can continue to be patient.

See this guy Kingmakers.

I thought that I read somewhere in Paizo, that the date for the Anniversary addition was April 2022 (can't find the post now). Is that still correct? or is there another date?

-- david

Its been updated via the GameOn site, I think sometime in the Fall now.

Its been updated via the GameOn site, I think sometime in the Fall now.

Fungus! By September I will be 75. Just hope I live long enough to run it.

-- david

https://www.gameontabletop.com/crowdfunding.php

Woo Hoo !!! At the Printers!!!!

Woo Hoo !!! At the Printers!!!!

Most of my group (including me) have played the PC game now. I am still very excited for this product, though! We would just have to work extra hard to make the story our own, I suppose! Kingmaker always fired my imagination in a way few other adventures have.

From experience with Wrath of the Righteous, I imagine there will be plenty of story differences to make things interesting.

The PC Game had a lot of embellishment added by Chris Avellone. While Chris comes from a D&D background, the kind of stories he writes (Planescape, KOTOR II) can best be described as....post-modern. Lots of deconstruction of standard tropes and turning them on their head.

I wouldn't expect the AP to run anything like the vidya gaem except in that it hits the same story beats.

The PC Game had a lot of embellishment added by Chris Avellone. While Chris comes from a D&D background, the kind of stories he writes (Planescape, KOTOR II) can best be described as....post-modern. Lots of deconstruction of standard tropes and turning them on their head.

I wouldn't expect the AP to run anything like the vidya gaem except in that it hits the same story beats.

Interesting.

Thank you.