Mid-Season Faction Updates

HOWEVER....

...isn't Ashasar for a faction that isn't available *quite* yet?

HOWEVER....

...isn't Ashasar for a faction that isn't available *quite* yet?

Also, is he from Golarion or the Elemental Plane of Air?

Disk Elemental wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Is retirement of the 'Grand Lodge' too far-fetched of an idea?

EDIT: I mean, it seems to be the seat of a lot of distrust and discontent... could new leadership in the Society go 'Yeah, antiquated construct, we need something BETTER. We can BE BETTER!'?

Nah, it shouldn't be retired, every organization will have its yes-men, sycophants, and mindless factotums. But there should definitely be an alternative, for those who care about holding their leaders accountable...

Being a loyal Pathfinder who cares about the Society as a whole does not make you a “yes-man, sycophant or mindless factotum.”

Yes, I want more from the Grand Lodge than just being an umbrella catch-all. I want the Grand Lodge to deepen its charge to pick up the whole Pathfinder’s Union, and to be more about exploration and knowledge. I want Pathfinder rescue and body recovery missions. I want the Grand Lodge to rise to its story potential as a faction that does important things.

I dislike the implication that those who choose the Grand Lodge are somehow less than those who do not. There are people who are Grand Lodge because they passionately love the Society, warts and all.

Hmm

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate, and we know at least some of the Decemvirate are not good guys. For example, Torch WAS after all betrayed by the decemvirate, and therefore he had a point for his anger. This is just one example but we know there were many of these episodes and Pathfinders feel like they ultimately are expendable resources for a machine whose purpose they don't fully grasp.

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

So do the rest of the factions.

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

Uh not quite. The decemvirate are the leaders, so like TOZ said all society members do kind of have to listen to them.

It's more the fact that being in the grand lodge means or seems to mean that you're okay with the decemvirate never being held accountable for the orders they give.

Rogar Valertis wrote:

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

So do the rest of the factions.

Not above all else.

-Dark Archive wants to study secret and forbidden knowledge, some want this for knowledge's sake, others for power and a few because they believe some things are too dangerous to be left at large in the world. The members of the Dark Archive court the Decemvirate because they want access but they put their particular reasons to seek knowledge before the Decemvirate's decrees.
-The Exchange wants to establish an extensive trade network within the Inner Sea and beyond. To this purpose they work inside and outside the law to suit their wants (at least one of their leaders deals in drugs for example). The Exchange pathfinders use the society to get richer, if the Decemvirate threatens their profit margins they are out.
-Liberty's Edge is a political faction. They use the society to further their agenda based on the principles of freedom for the individual and progress over tradition and mysticism, after all they "seek to spark revolution in decadent old empires and to civilize and educate the ignorant peoples of lost and unknown lands". If the Decemvirate for its own inscrutable reasons allies with tyrants and slavers the Liberty's Edge pathfinders will oppose it.
-Scarab Sages are (were) another faction that revered knowledge above all else. They didn't just want to study old and forbidden knowledge, they wanted to preserve it and for that purpose they would have probably defied the Decemvirate if forced to. Remember Amenopheus was Shadow Lodge too, once.
-Silver Crusaders are even worse than Liberty's Edge pathfinders when it comes to obeying questionable orders based on their moral code. They actually want to change the Society from a neutral organization to a good one, who fights against evil and makes the world a better place. Good luck convincing one of them making a deal with an evil ruler is something they should fully support, even if the Society as a whole might gain some form of advantage out of it.
-The Sovereign Court is another political faction. They use the Society as cover for their secret agenda of forming an Inner Sea secret leadership formed by nobles, guiding their respective Countries "toward prosperity, peace, and perhaps the creation of a new empire spanning Avistan and beyond". The moment the Decemvirate puts down its collective foot and tells them to stop doing it what do you think will happen?

So you see, formally, all pathfinders are beholden to the Decemvirate, but in truth only Grand Lodge ones focus on serving it.

TOZ wrote:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

So do the rest of the factions.

Not above all else.

When have any of them gone against the Decemvirate?

(I can think of once.)

I know I'm the only one, but I just don't feel the factions matter much anymore. I actually really like playing old scenarios where each faction has a secret mission.

oh just move to the starfinder society system and just have grand lodge become the mercs and the scarab sages the archaeologists, and so on and so forth

Rogar Valertis wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

So do the rest of the factions.

Not above all else.

When have any of them gone against the Decemvirate?

(I can think of once.)

Even if it's rare does that invalidate the fact other factions put their principles/wants before the Decemvirate's will?

Even if it's rare does that invalidate the fact other factions put their principles/wants before the Decemvirate's will?

The potential for conflict is there and from a story driven point of view it is a good thing imo.

I expect that Ambrus Valsin will come into conflict with the Decemvirate when they issue an order that does not measure up to the standards of the Society.

I expect that Ambrus Valsin will come into conflict with the Decemvirate when they issue an order that does not measure up to the standards of the Society.

Hopefully.

Rogar Valertis wrote:

Even if it's rare does that invalidate the fact other factions put their principles/wants before the Decemvirate's will?

The potential for conflict is there and from a story driven point of view it is a good thing imo.

I expect that Ambrus Valsin will come into conflict with the Decemvirate when they issue an order that does not measure up to the standards of the Society.

Aren't the standards of the Society defined by the Decemvirate itself though? If your motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else" can you disobey them and still be considered a member of the Grand Lodge?

P.S.

I like to think the members of the Decemvirate are often at odds with each other and sometimes that is a source of trouble for the rank and file.

No, we define the standards with our actions, many of which are not subject to Decemvirate approval or oversight.

I'm one to add to the throng to keep Scarab Sages around. I have a PC that I've played for almost six years from Lantern Lodge to Osirion to Scarab Sages and I enjoy the faction. Others may disagree, but I don't see a problem with keeping the faction around and only plugging in boons on Chronicle sheets when the stars just happen to align. That is, you can keep the faction around you just don't have to write stories around it. Is that really so hard? If we know that's the case and we choose to stay, so what? Who does it hurt? Don't add a faction journal card in 2018, that's OK - just let us keep using the 2017 version.

I guess I just don't get why you have to kill it. You don't need to support it, but there is still a lot of fun to be played with the old scenarios for years to come.

Just My Thoughts

This is nearly exactly the solution I arrived at. For my Magus, the next best faction fit would be the Dataphiles, but she's not allowed to play in that sandbox.

While I hate to continue the derail with a thread about the Grand Lodge, I would love to see a scenario where Pathfinders have to choose between recovering the artifact the Decimvirate wants and rescuing the agent they were sent to check on, and which choice they made is checked as box A or B and influences the direction of the Grand Lodge.

I wouldn't mind a choice like this. I'd feel rotten about it a little bit, but... it'd really define the character of the Grand Lodge AND the Society.

EDIT: Remember... Explore. Report. Cooperate.

Rogar Valertis wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

The problem with the Grand Lodge is that it obeys the Decemvirate...

So do the rest of the factions.

Not above all else.

When have any of them gone against the Decemvirate?

(I can think of once.)

While I hate to continue the derail with a thread about the Grand Lodge, I would love to see a scenario where Pathfinders have to choose between recovering the artifact the Decimvirate wants and rescuing the agent they were sent to check on, and which choice they made is checked as box A or B and influences the direction of the Grand Lodge.

That was literally a scenario two years ago.

Must not have been a very common one in this area, it was poorly implemented, or it perhaps was not what has been suggested?

I can't remember a scenario like this for the Grand Lodge. At all. That doesn't mean anything, I haven't played *ALL THE THINGS*

Must not have been a very common one in this area, it was poorly implemented, or it perhaps was not what has been suggested?

I can't remember a scenario like this for the Grand Lodge. At all. That doesn't mean anything, I haven't played *ALL THE THINGS*

** spoiler omitted **

That's because I don't make the pedantic distinction of whether or not a storyline belongs to x faction and neither does PFS for that matter.

The most obvious of which is the dead pathfinder who caused international incident after international incident after international incident because he felt old and useless.

Where did he go against the Decemvirate?

My initial reaction to hearing that the Scarab Sages were closing the doors was panic. A few days later and I'm feeling better.

I have two character in the scarab sages; one that was in it because none of the factions fit him, and the other that was built for the faction. This is exciting for the first character, when I made him the Concordance was what he needed but it didn't exist. This is devastating for the second character and he will likely live on as a rebel, officially within the Grand Lodge but always truly loyal to the inactive Scarab Sages (I'm trying to figure out how to suicide him and claim the 'Risen' title before it is too late).

Now I have a future character that I'm pumped about because it sounds like they will be a perfect fit for the Concordance when previously they had no faction that really spoke to them.

I only joined PFS a few years ago and I'm starting a new lodge with all new players. So I'm concerned about the amount of content that is becoming less relevant, but really this is a silly concern; new content is being released as fast as we play it.

I'm excited to see that the PFS Golarion is a living world that keeps changing and I'm excited for all the new plots the Concordance will bring us.

MadScientistWorking wrote:

The most obvious of which is the dead pathfinder who caused international incident after international incident after international incident because he felt old and useless.

Where did he go against the Decemvirate?

Funnily enough anywhere. It wasn't in his job description to go on an adventure.

Scarab Sages are my absolute favourite faction, and I'm really sad to see them go. They're the most unique, and has had the best plot out of any faction. The Concordance is cool, sure, but they're never going to replace in my heart what the Sages made.

(I'm trying to figure out how to suicide him and claim the 'Risen' title before it is too late).

Not a problem! The vanity mentions that "you may voluntarily be killed and resurrected", meaning you don't even have to wait to be sent on a deadly mission.

TOZ wrote:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

Even if it's rare does that invalidate the fact other factions put their principles/wants before the Decemvirate's will?

The potential for conflict is there and from a story driven point of view it is a good thing imo.

I expect that Ambrus Valsin will come into conflict with the Decemvirate when they issue an order that does not measure up to the standards of the Society.

Aren't the standards of the Society defined by the Decemvirate itself though? If your motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else" can you disobey them and still be considered a member of the Grand Lodge?

P.S.

I like to think the members of the Decemvirate are often at odds with each other and sometimes that is a source of trouble for the rank and file.

Where do you get that the grand lodge motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else"? I've never seen that anywhere.

Where do you get that the grand lodge motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else"? I've never seen that anywhere.

It s either that or house hufflepuff...

Rogar Valertis wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

Even if it's rare does that invalidate the fact other factions put their principles/wants before the Decemvirate's will?

The potential for conflict is there and from a story driven point of view it is a good thing imo.

I expect that Ambrus Valsin will come into conflict with the Decemvirate when they issue an order that does not measure up to the standards of the Society.

Aren't the standards of the Society defined by the Decemvirate itself though? If your motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else" can you disobey them and still be considered a member of the Grand Lodge?

P.S.

I like to think the members of the Decemvirate are often at odds with each other and sometimes that is a source of trouble for the rank and file.

Where do you get that the grand lodge motto is "Obey the Decemviarate above all else"? I've never seen that anywhere.

HERE

But I was misremembering the wording, it's "just" Loyalty to the Decemvirate above all else

I never checked the new part of the website. Good to know if new players have questions.

Funnily enough anywhere. It wasn't in his job description to go on an adventure.

That doesn't mean he was going against the Decemvirate by doing so. You have yet to provide a real example.

Maybe it's time to update that Grand Lodge flavor text. The Decemvirate shows up so rarely in stories that it's not really something to describe a faction with. What about:

"Members of the Grand Lodge put the goals and values of the Society above politics and special interests."

I think the old text made much more sense in the time when regional factions were trying to use the Society to take control of Absalom. They had much more divided loyalties. But those factions have all cut their leashes to their mother countries.

Maybe it's time to update that Grand Lodge flavor text. The Decemvirate shows up so rarely in stories that it's not really something to describe a faction with. What about:

"Members of the Grand Lodge put the goals and values of the Society above politics and special interests."

This is a very good idea. It's the existing 'loyalty' motto that switches people off Grand Lodge, and makes people who don't find a good fit for their characters elsewhere unhappy about using Grand Lodge as a backstop. Grand Lodge needs a better defined identity than the Cult of the Decemvirate (which is what it appears to be as a result of the loyalty motto, even if that's not what it's actually trying to be).

(I'm trying to figure out how to suicide him and claim the 'Risen' title before it is too late).

Play a scenario in a city where you can get a res and charge into every combat to the song of leroy jenkins?

Okay, for the Grand Lodge...

I just had this amazing idea but I'm but a player in the campaign, and some of the source material I'd use for it I haven't played yet.

...but the upshot would be a Seeker-level arc where the players have to go through and uncover the Ten for any of a number of valid reasons.

...it'd help get the Ten away from looking like they were Lords of Waterdeep er Absalom...

*coughs*

Okay, for the Grand Lodge...

I just had this amazing idea but I'm but a player in the campaign, and some of the source material I'd use for it I haven't played yet.

...but the upshot would be a Seeker-level arc where the players have to go through and uncover the Ten for any of a number of valid reasons.

...it'd help get the Ten away from looking like they were Lords of Waterdeep er Absalom...

Yep, that would make one hell of a seeker arc.

** spoiler omitted **

Might be a way to prepare for in case of a worst case.

Have you tried calling Shielda Heidemarch?

MadScientistWorking wrote:

Funnily enough anywhere. It wasn't in his job description to go on an adventure.

That doesn't mean he was going against the Decemvirate by doing so. You have yet to provide a real example.

It actively is stated in the scenario that no one in their right minds would have let him do what he did which is why he hid the information from everyone.

Citation? I can't find it.

I dislike the implication that those who choose the Grand Lodge are somehow less than those who do not. There are people who are Grand Lodge because they passionately love the Society, warts and all.

I dislike the notion that licking the Ten's boots is what's best for the Society.

It's been proven time and again, that The Ten only care for themselves. They won't even stick their necks out to help the Master of Spells. Considering what's nestled in the upper floors of Sky's Reach, Sorrina Westyr shouldn't have been trapped in Orv for all those years, and retrieving Aram Zey should have taken an hour, at most.

If you wish to change the Society, you have to put pressure on the leadership; force them to be accountable to others in order to achieve their goals. You can't claim to be a transformative force, while also mindlessly following the very orders you wish to change.

My -1 is Scarab Sages, Osirion, focused on knowledge and archeology. I get the story arcs may be finished but I'd like longer to be able to actually play them all. I like the idea of an inactive faction. No new content, no new faction card, no new members. Let those of us with characters have an extra year to play and get them to retirement. I'm going to ask local gms to run stuff for me. online is not an option for me, and potentially even if it were real life gets in the way of that much game time.
So, please reconsider retirement into inactive status.
Thanks

Hmm wrote:

I dislike the implication that those who choose the Grand Lodge are somehow less than those who do not. There are people who are Grand Lodge because they passionately love the Society, warts and all.

I dislike the notion that licking the Ten's boots is what's best for the Society.

It's been proven time and again, that The Ten only care for themselves. They won't even stick their necks out to help the Master of Spells. Considering what's nestled in the upper floors of Sky's Reach, Sorrina Westyr shouldn't have been trapped in Orv for all those years, and retrieving Aram Zey should have taken an hour, at most.

If you wish to change the Society, you have to put pressure on the leadership; force them to be accountable to others in order to achieve their goals. You can't claim to be a transformative force, while also mindlessly following the very orders you wish to change.

How many Grand Lodge scenarios these days have anything to do with the Decemvirate?

The closest I can think of is Sharrowsmith going off on an ill-advised adventure because he wants to prove to the Ten that he's not too old to do fieldwork.

The main things the Grand Lodge has been doing lately are:

• Payback against the Aspis Consortium for Siege of Serpents.
  
• Rescuing Pathfinders, including Sorrina and (trying) Sharrowsmith.
  
• Dealing with traitors, i.e. Traitor's Lodge/Vengeance at Sundered Crag
  

The text about the Decemvirate is vestigial. They've barely been seen since season 4.

So perhaps they are an antiquated old guard structure that can be safely removed so the Society functions more effectively and... more importantly OPENLY to help get rid of the 'murder hobo for hire/graverobber' legacy they tend to have.

Wait, is that what Grand Lodge Pathfinders do!? Maybe I should ask about a Faction transfer...

Citation? I can't find it.

It's been proven time and again, that The Ten only care for themselves. They won't even stick their necks out to help the Master of Spells. Considering what's nestled in the upper floors of Sky's Reach, Sorrina Westyr shouldn't have been trapped in Orv for all those years, and retrieving Aram Zey should have taken an hour, at most.

Aram Zey was stolen by a group that's arguably on par with the Decimverate in terms of power. There is two paragraphs written about that faction but ooo boy they are really creepy and not good.

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Citation? I can't find it.

It literally says in the scenario grandpa needs an entire party of people to go out on an adventure.

No, it says that he usually goes out with a team of assistants and that this time is unusual. Not forbidden.

MadScientistWorking wrote:

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Citation? I can't find it.

It literally says in the scenario grandpa needs an entire party of people to go out on an adventure.

No, it says that he usually goes out with a team of assistants and that this time is unusual. Not forbidden.

It's because he can't do field work. He needs the assistants because he physically isn't capable of doing field work.