Mid-Season Faction Updates

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Corwin Icewolf wrote:

When a faction completes their goals they vanish from existence instead of just finding new goals like you'd expect?

You mean like Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, and Taldor did?

Beats me, I wasn't in pfs when they were around. But I thought they went away because they decided to make the factions non regional. Scarab sages had similar goals to osirion only not osirion specific, and so on.

I would consider them all having found new goals, with a scenario written specifically to address the shift in focus as well as rebranding.

The Silver Crusade is unlikely to be retired any time soon, as there is always evil in the world, right?

The Dark Archive is unlikely to be retired any time soon, as they are the ones who run 'Lodge 13'

Liberty's Edge is all about freedom and abolition and there's still a buncha slavery in the world, so unlikely that they'll be retired any time soon...

by that logic the scarab sages shouldn't be retired either unless every scrap of lost historical information has been recovered.

My problem with this is that factions haven't just become a central component of PFS they are an important part of the characters as well. Most of my characters identify themselves as a member of their respective faction rather than as a Pathfinder. I have one Sage who's seeker level who it actually makes sense for him to join the Concordance if I play him again, but I have two new Sages that I have to question if it wouldn't make more sense to just trash the character and move on. They're new characters so not a huge loss, but I was excited about playing them. When the location based factions were retired they were replaced with Factions that had similar themes and goals, but now we're losing a faction with no logical replacement for us to use the free faction switch on. They aren't religious zealots, abolitionists, aspiring merchants, morally ambiguous archivists, political schemers, or interested in being the Decimverate's lackeys. Where to go? I'd be fine with it if there was at least a new faction that was equally interested in scholarly pursuits, but also don't want to see a new faction cobbled together just to fill this niche without any solid story reason for the to be there. Sorry about the rant. I'm just sad to see such a cool faction go. Especially since my sages are either past the point of participating in the final scenario or too low to play it.

I do think the introduction of the Concordance is awesome though. They are a cool faction that fill a role many of us have wanted for a while, and it makes lots of sense to introduce them as faction now.

I haven't played a PFS game quite yet, so I can't really say much on the loss of the Scarab Sages, but the Concordance sounds downright awesome! My Voice of the Wild, fire dancer flavored Bard would fit right in! I wonder what sort of benefits it'll give...

My only local venue closed a while back, and likely won't reopen until early next year. So I'm glad there's a little more time. I have to gain from five to nine levels before time's up, though... so I'm a little worried.

pfschat.com

Liberty's Edge getting new leadership is a good thing. I've been less inclined to play my only Liberty's Edge character since playing scenarios involving Mandris. If the change seems positive going forward, I might make new characters to join them.

I have three nature inclined characters that will still be looking for a faction that fits them, as the Concordance doesn't fit them or seem interesting at all. Even a boring "nature for nature's sake" faction, as mentioned in the blog, would fill the needs of my characters better.

I also have several characters that are interested in archeology, history or similar matters which have been members of the Scarab Sages. They will no longer have any fitting factions to join. I'm not saying that Scarab Sages needs to stay, but that there should be a new faction that fills the void created by its loss.

When making new characters I find that I often have a hard time finding a fitting place for them in factions unless I pick the faction first, and then think of a character that would fit them. Pathfinder Society's theme of "explore, report and cooperate" allows for a wider range of interests than what are covered by the current factions.

It's kind of a blow, the Sages have been one of the more "faction central to concept" factions for my characters. However, they're also L10 and L11 now so playing them through the conclusion is viable.

I think overall it's a good thing: the faction isn't "ending", it's "graduating". It had a big goal and it went there.

---

I think the Concordance has a lot of potential, too. For a long time we've wanted a "green" faction just like the DA was "black" and the Crusade was "white". But it had to be more interesting than "nature is really nice m'kay?" With the Concordance we also get extraplanar intrigue, and a big story already in motion with Ranginori.

Conceptually, I applaud the inclusion of a faction that will allow for druids, rangers, hunters, shifters, etc. to shine on their own merits, rather than trying to shoehorn them into a faction that just doesn't fit right.

I do have a specific concern about the Concordance, as well as a specific question about the retirement of the Scarab Sages.

Silver Crusade might understandably draw paladins more than other factions (example), but the notion of nature can't be attached to one faction specifically. That's why I'm not sold on the basics of the Concordance yet, will see in due process.

Sad to see the Scarab Sages go, but if they filled their objective, why staying.

I would like to see a more cosmopolitan Society. It seems to be a very Avistan-centric organization that goes out and explores/loots other parts of Golarion. It would be great to see a faction that pushed back against this and sought to reform the society by bringing a wider geographic/cultural range of individuals into the Society's leadership. A Society lead in this manner could then seek to adapt the Society's mission to local conditions and needs around Golarion rather than imposing itself upon them which is how it currently seems to operate.

My only local venue closed a while back, and likely won't reopen until early next year. So I'm glad there's a little more time. I have to gain from five to nine levels before time's up, though... so I'm a little worried.

I mean the faction is the most difficult to finish to the point where the only way I know of doing one involved hoping the GM has seven hours to run Salvation of the Sages or play a poorly edited scenario with a reputation of TPKing entire parties.

As someone who wrote a seven-hour scenario, I'm not going to point any fingers there. ^_^

I have no problem running something like that (since that's almost certainly how I'll be experiencing it). I'll just have to budget time accordingly.

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Corwin Icewolf wrote:

When a faction completes their goals they vanish from existence instead of just finding new goals like you'd expect?

You mean like Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, and Taldor did?

Beats me, I wasn't in pfs when they were around. But I thought they went away because they decided to make the factions non regional. Scarab sages had similar goals to osirion only not osirion specific, and so on.

Those didn't really go away they had a new PR campaign.

My impression of the Scarab Sages was that while they stated they were all about gathering knowledge, their true focus was gathering the Sage Jewels. In effect, they were using the resources of the Society to further that goal. If they dealt with their obsession with gemology, then they truly might not have reason to cooperate with the Society any longer.

My NG book wizard would be a little apprehensive about joining the DArchive. I just really hope we can get a game of 09-07 set up locally - the stores are either "nobody here with high-level characters" or "we close at the 5-hour mark," and it's supposed to be a long one. He's played all the other Scarab Sage scenarios (except that random 1-5 thrown in at the end), so it would really be a shame to miss out on the climax.

My NG book wizard would be a little apprehensive about joining the DArchive. I just really hope we can get a game of 09-07 set up locally - the stores are either "nobody here with high-level characters" or "we close at the 5-hour mark," and it's supposed to be a long one. He's played all the other Scarab Sage scenarios (except that random 1-5 thrown in at the end), so it would really be a shame to miss out on the climax.

If you can't get in a game in meatspace go online. It's very much something you want to do before the faction goes poof.

My NG book wizard would be a little apprehensive about joining the DArchive. I just really hope we can get a game of 09-07 set up locally - the stores are either "nobody here with high-level characters" or "we close at the 5-hour mark," and it's supposed to be a long one. He's played all the other Scarab Sage scenarios (except that random 1-5 thrown in at the end), so it would really be a shame to miss out on the climax.

I posted a query about it on Myth Weavers. If we don't have enough interest there, I suppose I can run it here, but I figured I should offer it there first since I am the VA over there.

As someone who wrote a seven-hour scenario, I'm not going to point any fingers there. ^_^

I have no problem running something like that (since that's almost certainly how I'll be experiencing it). I'll just have to budget time accordingly.

I'll pointing fingers at the fact that I have six months to figure out how to get the Salvation of the Sages boon. The scenario is amazing. What you need to do in six months to get the boon is arguably on par with chronicle fishing.

I think it makes sense. The Sages reached their primary goal, they no longer feel like they need to sap so many resources off the Society. It doesn't appear like they're abandoning the Pathfinders, just redirecting the substantial number of members to other goals in the Society that need more attention. I get the feeling Amenopheus and Tahonikepsu will still be around some.

That said, sometimes branches of an organization or company go away, such as distributing members of a team after they finish a project. Instead of declaring my sage characters unplayable with the change, I'm going to ask myself what they'd do in the situation and where they'd go. What part of the society needs them most?

My Myagambian Arcanist will be an interesting one, I can see him joining the Concordance for what they are, or the Dark Archive, because someone needs to keep an eye on all the creepy things getting locked away while making sure the people around them don't abuse them.

I'll pointing fingers at the fact that I have six months to figure out how to get the Salvation of the Sages boon. The scenario is amazing. What you need to do in six months to get the boon is arguably on par with chronicle fishing.

I actually have someone who has five of the prequels under their belt -- played through the three-parter and has two 'held' for when he reaches L7.

However, I *know* I'm an outlier and it's very much luck that the stars aligned like that No, seriously!.

I have 2 PCs that need to move.

Rami, my ifrit gunslinger/investigator was built as a wild west lawman type. He joined the sages because that seemed like the faction that would have the most influence in the Mana Wastes due to geography. He can probably easily move to Grand Lodge.

Abdul, my sandkin half-orc arcane bloodline urban bloodrager is a bit harder to deal with. His backstory is that he was rescued by the Diamond Sage after being left for dead in the desert. He was pumped full of sage jewel magic (thus the bloodline) and was a servant for a while before being loaned to the Pathfinder Society. I enjoy playing the character enough that I don't want to retire him at level 3, so I'll have to put him somewhere else, and that might end up being Grand Lodge as well.

Not sure who will join the Concordance. I have two nature-focused PCs currently.

A barbarian/druid and a wood kineticist. Both would probably be as at home, maybe a little more than Liberty's Edge where they currently sit, though neither has a really planar focus.

My paladin will be making his second jump to a new faction. From Shadow Lodge he followed Amenopheus to the Sages, but now I suppose he will find himself among his peers in the Silver Crusade.

Professor Hurtubize, being of questionable morals and an insatiable thirst for knowledge both dark and mystical, can likely only fit in with the Dark Archive now, I suppose.

Kalten Stonejaw, Pahmet champion of Irori, probably has little other recourse among the factions as well. Silver Crusade will certainly take his upstanding moral compass, but perhaps the Grand Lodge will be better suited to his nature.

MadScientistWorking wrote:

I'll pointing fingers at the fact that I have six months to figure out how to get the Salvation of the Sages boon. The scenario is amazing. What you need to do in six months to get the boon is arguably on par with chronicle fishing.

I actually have someone who has five of the prequels under their belt -- played through the three-parter and has two 'held' for when he reaches L7.

However, I *know* I'm an outlier and it's very much luck that the stars aligned like that No, seriously!.

Unless you started playing at season 7 that doesn't help as much as you would like. Might get you halfway there which is why I'm grousing.

I'm disappointed at Tamrin taking up Liberty's Edge. When he showed up in the Cheliax trilogy I thought he was a very flat meh. He'd serve as a good go-to guy for further Cheliax scenarios since Zarta's not doing the job anymore, but not much beyond that.

Scarab Sages... While I'm always sad to see a faction go, it does make sense. Selling them as different from Dark Archive has always been a bit of a challenge, and this simplifies that. My sage will get her GM credit for Salvation in March, then I just need to build up the gold required to get the boon.

If you had to get rid of one of Scarab Sages/Dark Archives, I would have suggested getting rid of Dark Archives instead, but that's because I'm not interested in the 'edgy' or 'evil light' flavor of Dark Archives.

So, with Liberty's Edge and Scarab Sages getting huge multi-scenario arcs, and dedicated blog posts, and contests, can we finally have any meaningful plot lines for Silver Crusade?

Most of my PCs end up in that faction since they're generally trying to be decent people, and I personally can't stomach Grand Lodge as a concept, and it's been incredibly disappointing to see them do literally nothing since Season 5 (which they weren't even the central faction for!)

In all of Season 8, they got precisely 1 scenario mission. Same thing in Season 7.

If you had to get rid of one of Scarab Sages/Dark Archives, I would have suggested getting rid of Dark Archives instead, but that's because I'm not interested in the 'edgy' or 'evil light' flavor of Dark Archives.

That's a terrible comparison. Scarab Sages and Dark Archive are two of the three factions most integral to the Society's identity. Neither one should go away, because they're both very real aspects of the pursuit of knowledge.

Some do it solely for the sake of knowledge, devouring a manual on proper candle-making technique with as much gusto as a book of ancient spells. However, that puts them in jeopardy because they're too enamored with history to pay heed to the dangers or practical concerns. Some seek knowledge as a means to gain power; sifting through ancient secrets to find insights into the present. It makes them less inclined to go out of their way solely in the name of preserving history, but makes them an effective force for combating the sorts of powerful magics and long-buried horrors that Society agents have a knack for stepping in.

** spoiler omitted **

ouch. I missed the fine print on that one. Yeah that is kinda rough if you didn't/don't have it on the same character.

If you had to get rid of one of Scarab Sages/Dark Archives, I would have suggested getting rid of Dark Archives instead, but that's because I'm not interested in the 'edgy' or 'evil light' flavor of Dark Archives.

Zarta literally helped save a demigod while in the process of ensuring the Blakros and Pathfinder society don't implode the planet into a singularity. She has one of the best plotlines now that they moved away from her early sexpot days.

I love the ever-evolving plots.

Are there any other plot thread lists for major plot lines
so folks can decide what scenarios they want/need to play
with characters?

I love the ever-evolving plots.

Are there any other plot thread lists for major plot lines
so folks can decide what scenarios they want/need to play
with characters?

Bunches

I'm beginning to wonder why good (or at least one's who aren't complete murderhobos even exist). Silver Crusade gets shafted and Dark archive gets all the cool stuff and the Scarab Sages gets phased out. Really disappointed in you paizo. Still <3 you, but doesn't mean i can't be disappointed.

If you had to get rid of one of Scarab Sages/Dark Archives, I would have suggested getting rid of Dark Archives instead, but that's because I'm not interested in the 'edgy' or 'evil light' flavor of Dark Archives.

That's for the precise reason I'll do more DAs in the future as it gives me more freedom of portrayal than Liberty's Edge or even Silver Crusade. It's not to be forgotten that the Society isn't basically a bastion of freedom fighters nor crusaders, but that Pathfinder just happens to harbor some of. Dark Archive is far more essential compared to this.

"If you need to enter a country while heavily armed, kill a bunch of people, and then leave with a bunch more people a pathfinder group makes a great cover. "

"pathfinders just happen to need a bunch of heavily armed people often enough to put up with it. "

Silver Crusade gets shafted and Dark archive gets all the cool stuff and the Scarab Sages gets phased out.

Dark Archive gets shafted almost as much as Silver Crusade. Exchange, Lodge, and Sages have been the historical favorites.

Depends on whether you re running old zarta or new zarta

So I'll need to find new factions for my two Scarab Sage PCs. Neither was specifically tied to the storylines of recent years, and both would have fit in just as well with the old Osirion faction as the more modern Sages, even though they're newer PCs.

One is an archaeologist from Varisia. She happened to be studying some Osirioni ruins when an ancient Osirion goddess took a liking to her and granted her divine power that she didn't ask for (inquisitor of Isis with profession: archaeologist and the faction trait that boosts a knowledge skill and grants Ancient Osirioni as a known language for free). Given that the Society is supposed to be a primarily archaeological organization, I guess it would make sense to put her in the Grand Lodge. But she's also NG aligned, so Silver Crusade or Liberty's Edge might fit.

The other is a nearly 300 year old elf from Jinin who collects knowledge and items of significance (occultist focused on skills/casting, with the Breadth of Experience feat). Again, Grand Lodge might fit, or Dark Archive.

My sylph sky druid and grippli poison darter ranger will definitely join The Concordance. Both were Grand Lodge, just as the default since they didn't have any particular reason to join any other faction.

I have a nature's fang druid who is the least nature focused druid in history, so I'll probably leave him in Liberty's Edge. I'll have to consider if any of my other PCs will switch to The Concordance.

Will other faction changes be allowed for free at the same time, if they don't involve joining the new faction or leaving the Scarab Sages?

zauriel56 wrote:

Silver Crusade gets shafted and Dark archive gets all the cool stuff and the Scarab Sages gets phased out.

Dark Archive gets shafted almost as much as Silver Crusade. Exchange, Lodge, and Sages have been the historical favorites.

Dark Archives has its own trilogy in season 7 and Zarta had a plot line peppered over 2 or 3 seasons... That's more than Liberty's Edge has ever had.

While Scarab Sages has been the most prevalent since season 5 started, you can't really say Dark Archives has been shafted more than a couple other factions who've only had one or two (if that many) scenarios total.

Dark Archives has its own trilogy in season 7 and Zarta had a plot line peppered over 2 or 3 seasons... That's more than Liberty's Edge has ever had.

While Scarab Sages has been the most prevalent since season 5 started, you can't really say Dark Archives has been shafted more than a couple other factions who've only had one or two (if that many) scenarios total.

That trilogy wasn't Dark Archive. It did nothing to further the faction's overall goals and the thematic links only came about in the box text at the end of the final scenario. In fact, given what actually happens in the series, I'd say that trilogy is far, far, more thematically linked to Liberty's Edge. What with all the supporting anti-Chelish subversives, debunking House Thrune's propaganda, murdering law enforcement, and literally everything that happens in Part 3.

Also, Liberty's Edge had a major arc kicked off in 9-02.

I'm one to add to the throng to keep Scarab Sages around. I have a PC that I've played for almost six years from Lantern Lodge to Osirion to Scarab Sages and I enjoy the faction. Others may disagree, but I don't see a problem with keeping the faction around and only plugging in boons on Chronicle sheets when the stars just happen to align. That is, you can keep the faction around you just don't have to write stories around it. Is that really so hard? If we know that's the case and we choose to stay, so what? Who does it hurt? Don't add a faction journal card in 2018, that's OK - just let us keep using the 2017 version.

I guess I just don't get why you have to kill it. You don't need to support it, but there is still a lot of fun to be played with the old scenarios for years to come.

Just My Thoughts

Tallow wrote:

Dark Archives has its own trilogy in season 7 and Zarta had a plot line peppered over 2 or 3 seasons... That's more than Liberty's Edge has ever had.

While Scarab Sages has been the most prevalent since season 5 started, you can't really say Dark Archives has been shafted more than a couple other factions who've only had one or two (if that many) scenarios total.

That trilogy wasn't Dark Archive. It did nothing to further the faction's overall goals and the thematic links only came about in the box text at the end of the final scenario. In fact, given what actually happens in the series, I'd say that trilogy is far, far, more thematically linked to Liberty's Edge. What with all the supporting anti-Chelish subversives, debunking House Thrune's propaganda, murdering law enforcement, and literally everything that happens in Part 3.

Also, Liberty's Edge had a major arc kicked off in 9-02.

Dark Archive is not the Cheliax faction anymore. And what happens during that trilogy fits perfectly with previous developments

I can understand why everyone is grieving. I would feel the same way if Dark Archives passed. An absurd number of my characters are Dark Archives... I love Zarta’s redemption arc and the character growth she has shown. So I am imagining how stricken I would feel if the Dark Archive shut their doors.

I have never had a real Scarab Sage character, but I feel your pain.

Oddly, I thought that the retired faction would be the Exchange, despite the faction’s huge popularity for its monetary benefits. It’s a faction that is fractured to its core, and has the biggest identity crisis. Qadira, with all of its vibrant complexity, is only represented in merchantile interests. Szarni, with its moral ambiguity and roguish ways... it’s not represented at all, really. I was expecting the faction to splinter in some epic fashion, leaving us with a new direction for the folks in the Exchange.

(I say this as a player with TWO exchange characters.)

Hugs to all of you who are grieving. May your characters all find good factions in which to land, and may your changes eventually lead you to new and interesting places.

Yours,

Hmm

Dark Archive is not the Cheliax faction anymore. And what happens during that trilogy fits perfectly with previous developments ** spoiler omitted **

Besides all that, Pathfinder Society does not allow for evil players while the infernal empire of Cheliax is a LE nation historically in conflict with the Society itself, so it makes sense for PFS to be opposed to Cheliax.

The Dark Archive isn't Cheliax, but it is a faction dedicated to securing dangerous knowledge, and is a largely apolitical entity. Nothing you do in the arc supports that goal. Liberty's Edge is a faction dedicated to fighting "tyranny" and is very much a political entity; which fits perfectly with the not inconsiderable number of crimes you commit in the arc, all in the name of opposing house Thrune.

What happens in the box text at the very end of the trilogy sort of fits with the previous developments if you squint and don't think about it too hard. Personally I took the interpretation that Tancred was just able to screw over Zarta solely because of his connections and political machinations, rather than some nebulous document. However, that event wasn't built up over the course of the arc. You literally find a piece of exposition sitting there in a plot convenient box, rather than a place that makes any sense or has any danger or mystery surrounding it.

Unless you have someone at the table that's able to piece it together and realize the implications of the box.

My Liberty's Edge character insisted on having a copy 'for insurance sake in case we got captured' Wholly in keeping with the Society mantra and also allowing him to have theoretical [REDACTED] material on [REDACTED]

Arashi al-Ranginori wrote:

I wonder if we will be able to keep the faction journal benefits we've accumulated up until now.

John Compton wrote:

In addition, members of the Scarab Sages faction will keep any benefits earned on Scarab Sages Faction Journal Cards, but once the faction's retired, they won't be able to fulfill further goals.

I meant for those of us joining the Concordance of Elements from, say, The Dark Archives. The sad part is, I basically coin-flipped between "Scarab Sages" and "Dark Archive" for this character. I figured Dark Archive worked best as she's trying to find the other sealed elemental lords. I clearly picked wrong.

Rogar Valertis wrote:

Dark Archive is not the Cheliax faction anymore. And what happens during that trilogy fits perfectly with previous developments ** spoiler omitted **

Besides all that, Pathfinder Society does not allow for evil players while the infernal empire of Cheliax is a LE nation historically in conflict with the Society itself, so it makes sense for PFS to be opposed to Cheliax.

The Dark Archive isn't Cheliax, but it is a faction dedicated to securing dangerous knowledge, and is a largely apolitical entity. Nothing you do in the arc supports that goal. Liberty's Edge is a faction dedicated to fighting "tyranny" and is very much a political entity; which fits perfectly with the not inconsiderable number of crimes you commit in the arc, all in the name of opposing house Thrune.

What happens in the box text at the very end of the trilogy sort of fits with the previous developments if you squint and don't think about it too hard. Personally I took the interpretation that Tancred was just able to screw over Zarta solely because of his connections and political machinations, rather than some nebulous document. However, that event wasn't built up over the course of the arc. You literally find a piece of exposition sitting there in a plot convenient box, rather than a place that makes any sense or has any danger or mystery surrounding it.

** spoiler omitted **...

You completely missed the point.

Every motivation you mentioned is a generic Pathfinder virtue, that is specific to no single faction. The setting and how its utilized is unique and special for precisely one faction. Which is exactly what I said. The set of missions offers nothing thematically unique for Dark Archive PCs, which means calling it a "Dark Archive" arc is a dramatic mis-characterization.

Rogar Valertis wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

You completely missed the point.

Every motivation you mentioned is a generic Pathfinder virtue, that is specific to no single faction. The setting and how its utilized is unique and special for precisely one faction. Which is exactly what I said. The set of missions offers nothing thematically unique for Dark Archive PCs, which means calling it a "Dark Archive" arc is a dramatic mis-characterization.

I really don't want to derail this so this will be my last post on this matter here. That said, how does a trilogy directly developing the plot of 2 previous scenarios that estabilished the Dark Archive as its own faction very much OPPOSED to Cheliax qualify as not having anything thematically unique for Dark Archive PCs?