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I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Robert Brookes is a fun freelancer to work with because he'll often try something pretty daring. When I first read the archetype, I was like "Wait, it loses alchemy. But that's so much stuff!" But I also have been wanting a more martial shapeshifter for a while, and obviously so has Robert, so I saw what he was getting at, made a few synergistic tweaks, and here we have it. I mocked up a few characters with it and it can do some pretty fun tricks.
This is another reason I'm so excited for Mr. Brookes upcoming Aethera PFRPG hardcover. (Previews here)
Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?
Is their shapeshifting innate then?
Do subscribers have their pdfs already?
Heh. Theres a Mesmerist archetype all about pulling your eye out and letting it fly off and do stuff.
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Is their shapeshifting innate then?Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?
Yes. They have a Shapechanger ability at first level. It works like wild shape, but instead of beast shape it starts with Alter Self, and grows through monstrous physique and giant form with levels.
Heh. Theres a Mesmerist archetype all about pulling your eye out and letting it fly off and do stuff.
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Is their shapeshifting innate then?Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?Yes. They have a Shapechanger ability at first level. It works like wild shape, but instead of beast shape it starts with Alter Self, and grows through monstrous physique and giant form with levels.
Awesome!
I don't really see why they're Alchemists, though.
Do subscribers have their pdfs already?
I think they get the PDF once their hardcopy is boxed and ready to ship, so some may not have the PDF yet depending on where they are in the packing/shipping queue.
I haven't gotten my subscriber PDF yet. :-)
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The metamorph is EXACTLY the kind of alchemist I wanted to play. The bombs and extracts didn't really interest me whereas the mutagen did.
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The metamorph is EXACTLY the kind of alchemist I wanted to play. The bombs and extracts didn't really interest me whereas the mutagen did.
Same for me. It's a very good surprise, though also a radical departure from the base class.
Is their shapeshifting innate then?Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?Yes. They have a Shapechanger ability at first level. It works like wild shape, but instead of beast shape it starts with Alter Self, and grows through monstrous physique and giant form with levels.
I was already looking forward to this book. I like the vigilante, but this... It makes my squiggly black heart squirm with excitement.
So much I can build with this. Now if I can only apply this class to an awakened ooze ;)
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Is their shapeshifting innate then?Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?Yes. They have a Shapechanger ability at first level. It works like wild shape, but instead of beast shape it starts with Alter Self, and grows through monstrous physique and giant form with levels.
I was already looking forward to this book. I like the vigilante, but this... It makes my squiggly black heart squirm with excitement.
So much I can build with this. Now if I can only apply this class to an awakened ooze ;)
Oh man, putting it on an Apallie to cover its sunlight problems is genius NPC. I wasn't even considering that. Genius!
Always glad to help :)
I have to say I am disappointed in the fey speaker druid - BAB as a sorcerer, wild shape availability now at higher level, a few illusion/enchantment spells, no Summon Nature spontaneous & lackluster fey abilities
Meh I was hoping they would get upgraded fey summoning or ability to get fey abilities when they wildshape.
a fey companion would have been awesome
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They have 1/2 BAB? Why? That's dearly paid in exchange for a few mind-affecting spells and 2 skill points, especially with weakened Wild Shape and no more spontaneous summoning.A few months ago, in another thread Paizo Inc., I wished we could have a fey themed druid/mesmerist hybrid focused on illusion and enchantment. Now we got something very close and I should be happy, but the way this has apparently been implemented sounds somewhat lacking.
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I have to say I am disappointed in the fey speaker druid - BAB as a sorcerer, wild shape availability now at higher level, a few illusion/enchantment spells, no Summon Nature spontaneous & lackluster fey abilities
Meh I was hoping they would get upgraded fey summoning or ability to get fey abilities when they wildshape.
a fey companion would have been awesome
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They have 1/2 BAB? Why? That's dearly paid in exchange for a few mind-affecting spells and 2 skill points, especially with weakened Wild Shape and no more spontaneous summoning.A few months ago, in another thread Paizo Inc., I wished we could have a fey themed druid/mesmerist hybrid focused on illusion and enchantment. Now we got something very close and I should be happy, but the way this has apparently been implemented sounds somewhat lacking.
I think you might prefer the fey-themed druid/mesmerist hybrid mesmerist archetype for that idea.
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I think you might prefer the fey-themed druid/mesmerist hybrid mesmerist archetype for that idea.I have to say I am disappointed in the fey speaker druid - BAB as a sorcerer, wild shape availability now at higher level, a few illusion/enchantment spells, no Summon Nature spontaneous & lackluster fey abilities
Meh I was hoping they would get upgraded fey summoning or ability to get fey abilities when they wildshape.
a fey companion would have been awesome
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They have 1/2 BAB? Why? That's dearly paid in exchange for a few mind-affecting spells and 2 skill points, especially with weakened Wild Shape and no more spontaneous summoning.A few months ago, in another thread Paizo Inc., I wished we could have a fey themed druid/mesmerist hybrid focused on illusion and enchantment. Now we got something very close and I should be happy, but the way this has apparently been implemented sounds somewhat lacking.
... Having to wait until the 30th to get the PDF is going to be a long, frustrating wait.
Fey Trickster mesmerist is probably what you want, they change to being divine casters with the druid/ranger spell list (same as hunters) and some other neat stuff, including becoming fey at 20th level.I have to say I am disappointed in the fey speaker druid - BAB as a sorcerer, wild shape availability now at higher level, a few illusion/enchantment spells, no Summon Nature spontaneous & lackluster fey abilities
Meh I was hoping they would get upgraded fey summoning or ability to get fey abilities when they wildshape.
a fey companion would have been awesome
0_0
They have 1/2 BAB? Why? That's dearly paid in exchange for a few mind-affecting spells and 2 skill points, especially with weakened Wild Shape and no more spontaneous summoning.A few months ago, in another thread Paizo Inc., I wished we could have a fey themed druid/mesmerist hybrid focused on illusion and enchantment. Now we got something very close and I should be happy, but the way this has apparently been implemented sounds somewhat lacking.
Does it use spontaneouus casting? Does it have Wild Shape?
If not, that's not at all what I talked about, especially since it has 6th level casting, rather than 9th level.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now I just want an alchemist who loses mutagen entirely while keeping bombs and extracts...
Does it use spontaneouus casting? Does it have Wild Shape?
If not, that's not at all what I talked about, especially since it has 6th level casting, rather than 9th level.
Well mesmerist is a spontaneous caster, but wild shape doesn't exactly fit perfect with fey. Thousand faces fits with fey but wildshape... something seems off if it get's it.
Yeah, because the ability to turn into animals and plants doesn't fit a creature of nature like fey;)
To quote the old thread:
Love the idea of a Mesmerist Druid. Kinda like a Sylph or one of those charm-y faerie types..More like dryads, nymphs and other glaistigs, but that's the idea. :)
I also have that image of a bunch of monsters getting lost, confused, attacking each other, being put to sleep, blinded etc, before being finished off by an invisible or disguised wildshaped character.
Yeah, because the ability to turn into animals and plants doesn't fit a creature of nature like fey;)
To be honest.... it generally doesn't fit fey (which are not just nature creatures but are a horrible amalgamation of aberration type + elemental subtype + native subtype + outsider type where they just throw in gods and spirits and fey into one grab-bag). I sincerely cannot really think of that many fey that actually took animal form.
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I'm severely disappointed about the druid lacking spontaneous casting
I'm severely disappointed about the druid lacking spontaneous casting
Welcome to the club! ;)
Don't let it get to you, seems like there's still plenty of nice stuff.
I would have settled for another class gaining an in between sort of spellcasting like the arcanist has.
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Yeah, because the ability to turn into animals and plants doesn't fit a creature of nature like fey;)To be honest.... it generally doesn't fit fey (which are not just nature creatures but are a horrible amalgamation of aberration type + elemental subtype + native subtype + outsider type where they just throw in gods and spirits and fey into one grab-bag). I sincerely cannot really think of that many fey that actually took animal form.
The Morrigan often took the form of a crow, but she was a goddess of the Tuatha de Danann before they were turned into just fey.
The Morrigan often took the form of a crow, but she was a goddess of the Tuatha de Danann before they were turned into just fey.
That is both why I said "many" and that "they just throw in gods and spirits and fey into one grab-bag" :P
Morrigan really shouldn't be a fey... She should be an outsider.
In regards to the metamorph:
Are there any new discoveries specifically tied to it?
Is the Grand Discovery alter or given a new option?
I have this image in my head of metamorph who takes living mummy and eventually Eternal Youth.
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In the folkore of some european countries Fairies have to spend some of their time in animal shape, such as deer, snakes, birds or fish. It's pretty common.
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The ability for fey to turn into animals/plants or be part animal or plant is very common in myth.
The ability for fey to turn into animals/plants or be part animal or plant is very common in myth.
I've seen a lot of gods turn into animals, but not a lot of "Fey". I've heard of them rarely (like one that turns into a deer and one that turns into a Pegasus type thing), but I cannot really think of any Fey that turned into whatever animal they wanted.
But either way, this is off topic.
I wonder if Warlock kept the ability to shoot magic bolts while in shadow form .
How did the Grey Paladin and Tyrant turn out?
Did smite get neutered to 1/2 level?
What do they give up?
How did the Grey Paladin and Tyrant turn out?
Did smite get neutered to 1/2 level?
What do they give up?
Tyrant is great. Fixed code and it's good to go. GrAy(Go 'Murica!)Paladin got a bit neutered. Loses all immunities(But still lets you get the +4s the Auras grant) and Divine Grace. Buuuut you can spend two smites to smite an enemy that YOU deem to be an enemy of good whilst still getting normal Smite Evil. Plus party wide nondetection
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Mark, I think that a prepared charisma caster could be interesting. Although I almost never play prepared casters, I'm willing to give the feyspeaker druid a shot. And prepared casters do have more flexibility over the course of an adventure (even if I like spontaneous casters slightly more overall.)
So... What does the fey speaker druid give up to get its goodies? Does it keep wild shape and nature's bond, or does it give them up?
Please tell us!
I'm still excited by this archetype!
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Mark, I think that a prepared charisma caster could be interesting. Although I almost never play prepared casters, I'm willing to give the feyspeaker druid a shot. And prepared casters do have more flexibility over the course of an adventure (even if I like spontaneous casters slightly more overall.)
So... What does the fey speaker druid give up to get its goodies? Does it keep wild shape and nature's bond, or does it give them up?
Please tell us!
I'm still excited by this archetype!
Keeps animal buddy, delays wild shape slightly, 1/2 BAB and no medium armor (so more about casty druid than the beatstick melee builds). Some fey spells added instead of spontaneous summon, and some fey mischief with animals.
Mark, I think that a prepared charisma caster could be interesting. Although I almost never play prepared casters, I'm willing to give the feyspeaker druid a shot. And prepared casters do have more flexibility over the course of an adventure (even if I like spontaneous casters slightly more overall.)
So... What does the fey speaker druid give up to get its goodies? Does it keep wild shape and nature's bond, or does it give them up?
Please tell us!
I'm still excited by this archetype!
It loses its 3/4 BAB for 1/2 BAB, it loses spontaneous casting of Summon Nature Ally and gains level -2 Wild Shape.
Edit: ninja'd. And I diidn't even know they also lost medium armor. Those guys are never going into melee, are they?
Mark I gotta say, I wasn't interested in the Mesmerist in the very least when Occult Adventures came out...but this Eyebiter archetype is super cool.
Mark I gotta say, I wasn't interested in the Mesmerist in the very least when Occult Adventures came out...but this Eyebiter archetype is super cool.
Yeah, I'm a fan of the new mesmerist archetypes in general and eyebiter has a lot that's just fun!
The Fey Trickster might make the class interesting to me. I prefer psychic casting to divine, but the fey thematic sounds cool, and I never liked the mesmerist spell list.
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Tyrant is great. Fixed code and it's good to go. GrAy(Go 'Murica!)Paladin got a bit neutered. Loses all immunities(But still lets you get the +4s the Auras grant) and Divine Grace. Buuuut you can spend two smites to smite an enemy that YOU deem to be an enemy of good whilst still getting normal Smite Evil. Plus party wide nondetectionHow did the Grey Paladin and Tyrant turn out?
Did smite get neutered to 1/2 level?
What do they give up?
Losing Divine Grace makes the Gray Paladin a no-go right off from the bat. It sounds like the Paladin is giving up everything that makes the class strong for permission to be a different alignment.
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Losing Divine Grace makes the Gray Paladin a no-go right off from the bat. It sounds like the Paladin is giving up everything that makes the class strong for permission to be a different alignment.
I dunno. Smiting whatever you want is actually super powerful. Divine Grace is painful to lose, but Paladins actually have a good Save setup even without it.
They seem to keep Lay on Hands and Smite Evil at full progression. That's the other 2/3 of Paladin awesomeness.
I'd need to see it to get a good idea of how well it'll work.
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Losing Divine Grace makes the Gray Paladin a no-go right off from the bat. It sounds like the Paladin is giving up everything that makes the class strong for permission to be a different alignment.Tyrant is great. Fixed code and it's good to go. GrAy(Go 'Murica!)Paladin got a bit neutered. Loses all immunities(But still lets you get the +4s the Auras grant) and Divine Grace. Buuuut you can spend two smites to smite an enemy that YOU deem to be an enemy of good whilst still getting normal Smite Evil. Plus party wide nondetectionHow did the Grey Paladin and Tyrant turn out?
Did smite get neutered to 1/2 level?
What do they give up?
Ignoring the errata on ACG fixes that for home games with a feat.
PFS can't have nice things.
Is there a new archetype for the slayer?