The Most Intriguing Classes

Wednesday, March 10, 2016

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue is only a few weeks away, and it's time for the first rules preview blog—this time focusing on classes!

The new class in Ultimate Intrigue is the vigilante. An upstanding member of society by day and adventurer by night, the vigilante has two different identities which can even have different alignments. Unless someone discovers that the two identities are the same, divinations like scrying only work when the vigilante is in the form the diviner is trying to scry. Each vigilante chooses to be either a stalker, focusing on sneaking up on foes and punishing them before the foe notices the stalker is there, or the avenger, focusing on giving foes a more straightforward beatdown and gaining a full base attack bonus. The vigilante class is extremely modular, with a talent option at every level, switching off between social talents that give him an edge in social situations and other intrigue hijinks out of combat, and vigilante talents, which generally provide powerful combat options that he can use in either identity, though it might give him away if people see him using them in his social identity.


Illustrations by Tomasz Chistowski

If you've been with us since the playtest, the biggest change is that zealot and warlock are now archetypes, and while avenger and stalker each have some talents that only that specialization can choose, many of the talents that seemed like they fit the vigilante in general are now available to all vigilantes, as you requested in the playtest. Also, you asked for social talents based on being a craftsman or professional, and those are now available as well!

So I mentioned that warlock and zealot (which were arcane and divine vigilantes for those of you not part of the playtest) are now archetypes. All told, the vigilante has 10 pages of archetypes, the most that any class has ever received in a book. After all, he has plenty of catch-up in order to match his older cousins that have been around for more books. The brute has a hulking out-of control vigilante identity, and he can't always stop the transformation when he's in danger. Cabalists make blood pacts with dark patrons, gaining witch spells, blood powers, and a familiar. Gunmasters bring justice with firearms, and they gain a bunch of deeds as potential vigilante talents. The magical child archetype covers the "magical girl" trope, with a transformation sequence ability (faster switch between identities, but with flashy lights and music), summoner spells, and an otherworldly buddy. Mounted furies are mounted vigilantes like Zorro whose steeds also have a secret identity. Psychometrists are gadgetmasters and tinkerers who create personal occult gadgets to do things like fly (basically creating gadgets that each perform a single occultist focus power). Warlocks, are arcane casters from the magus list, with elemental options and mystic bolts of energy. Wildsouls are vigilantes who gain animalistic features in their vigilante identity. Finally, zealots are secret champions of their faiths, often because their religion is outlawed or persecuted, who cast from the inquisitor list and smite foes of one opposing alignment.

But vigilantes aren't the only ones with archetypes. Exciting archetypes for other classes include the tyrant (a lawful evil antipaladin archetype!), cardinal (a politics-heavy cleric with 6 skill points per level), gray paladin (can be one step from lawful good and smite any foe, but the lack of absolute conviction makes many abilities less absolute), fey caller (unchained summoner that summons a fey, with an all-new fey eidolon), zeitgeist binder (spiritualist that calls in a local zeitgeist based on a settlement statistic like corruption or society), battle scion (Celt/King Arthur blend skald that can call others to a quest and go into a deathlike sleep to return some day), dandy (a courtly ranger with the ability to manipulate rumors instead of wild empathy), vizier (a mesmerist that has a "power behind the throne" ability to make it look like his allies are the real threat while insidiously influencing them for his own agenda), feyspeaker (a fey-themed druid with 6 skill points per level that casts using Charisma!), and plenty more. In addition, the classes chapter two new inquisitions (Crime and Secrets), three new ranger combat styles (deceptive, menacing, and underhanded), four new rogue talents (follow along, shades of gray, hidden mind, and stalker talent), an oracle mystery (Intrigue), and even five intrigue-themed kineticist utility wild talents (earthmeld, flame trap, spying touchsight, greater voice of the wind, and greater watersense).

Tune in next week to hear more about some of the cool feats, spells, and magic items of intrigue!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder RPG Tomasz Chistowski Ultimate Intrigue Vigilante
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Do Lawful Neutral Gray Paladins get Smite Chaos as their default Smite?


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Do Lawful Neutral Gray Paladins get Smite Chaos as their default Smite?

Gray Paladins only get Smite Evil baseline but get an ability that lets them smite anyone for two uses of smite.

A Zealot Vigilante however gets a Smite Chaos if hes Lawful in his Vigilante Identity.


Do Zealots still get to select Channel Energy?

Liberty's Edge

Orthos wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Protoman wrote:
I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.
It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!
Cruel Illusion wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Protoman wrote:
I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.
It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!
And to say I had so many hopes for this archetype...*Cries*
Dragon78 wrote:
Well I have lost all interest in the feyspeaker since it isn't a spontaneous caster. I am very disappointed with this news.
Cruel Illusion wrote:
Hmm wrote:

I like the whole Nature Bond ability that druids get, and I like wildshape too, but oh... a charisma based druid is like a dream come true for me. I tend to play charisma based classes but I've always wanted to play a druid. Well,,, this shall be interesting to see how this one is built.

Hmm

I don't care which ability is used for spellcasting but if I have to choose between memorized casting and spontaneous casting, I'll choose spontaneous almost everytime.

All of these.

Add me to the "so very disappointed with this reveal" list. I'll be houseruling that away immediately, or just sticking to Kobold Press's Shaman.

Using Kobold Press's spontaneous casting, Shaman class sounds like a great idea to me! :)


Can anyone give me the Cardinal lowdown?

Liberty's Edge

Silver Surfer wrote:
Can anyone give me the Cardinal lowdown?

Done already in the other thread.


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Melkiador wrote:
Is there a new archetype for the slayer?

Yes.


Is Feyspeaker Druid compatable with Menhir Savant Archetype?
(which replaces/modifies nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step, thousand faces)

Does it gain a new kind of Spontaneous Casting in place of SNA? (e.g. Domain Spontaneous Casting)

Or other abilities which modify/augment spellcasting? (which seems the point of the class, which I'm happy with)


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Quandary wrote:

Is Feyspeaker Druid compatable with Menhir Savant Archetype?

(which replaces/modifies nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step, thousand faces)

Does it gain a new kind of Spontaneous Casting in place of SNA? (e.g. Domain Spontaneous Casting)

Or other abilities which modify/augment spellcasting? (which seems the point of the class, which I'm happy with)

Unfortunately, feyspeaker druids replace nature sense, so it's not compatible.

It doesn't gain a new kind of spontaneous casting, but can select enchantment/illusion sorcerer/wizard spells as they level up to be added as druid spells of one level higher.


Luthorne wrote:
It doesn't gain a new kind of spontaneous casting, but can select enchantment/illusion sorcerer/wizard spells as they level up to be added as druid spells of one level higher.

*tilts head*

*looked back at Veiled Illusionist*

*quirks eyebrow*

Dark Archive

I was already planning on getting this book, as while I think playing Batman is a stupid idea in PFS, the only place I really play Pathfinder, I still want to play d20 Batman so very badly. However, at this point, I think I'm actually going to end up getting a physical copy.

These archetypes sound amazing. So many more options,
The brute has a hulking out-of control vigilante identity
Hulk
Cabalists make blood pacts with dark patrons, gaining witch spells, blood powers, and a familiar
I don't know, John Constantine?
Gunmasters bring justice with firearms
The lone ranger
The magical child archetype covers the "magical girl" trope, with a transformation sequence ability (faster switch between identities, but with flashy lights and music), summoner spells, and an otherworldly buddy
Yes. All of my yes.
Mounted furies are mounted vigilantes like Zorro whose steeds also have a secret identity.
this also sounds cool. I'm not sure if this or the magical child archetype will be better used to play He-Man.
Psychometrists are gadgetmasters and tinkerers who create personal occult gadgets to do things like fly (basically creating gadgets that each perform a single occultist focus power)
Actually batman
Warlocks, are arcane casters from the magus list, with elemental options and mystic bolts of energy.
Wildsouls are vigilantes who gain animalistic features in their vigilante identity
Animal man?
Finally, zealots are secret champions of their faiths, often because their religion is outlawed or persecuted, who cast from the inquisitor list and smite foes of one opposing alignment
Um........Ragman?

The other archetypes are less superhero themed (at least to me), but also quite cool.

cardinal (a politics-heavy cleric with 6 skill points per level)
Even more Spanish inquisition jokes than usual
fey caller (unchained summoner that summons a fey eidolon)
All of my yes. Here's hoping it's PFS legal.
zeitgeist binder (spiritualist that calls in a local zeitgeist based on a settlement statistic like corruption or society)
This one sounds weird and awesome. Spirit of Absalom, here we go!
battle scion (Celt/King Arthur blend skald that can call others to a quest and go into a deathlike sleep to return some day)
Man, playing "King Arthur" sounds awesome.
feyspeaker (feyish druid, 6 skills/level casts using Charisma!)
Also sounds very cool

Scarab Sages

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Wildsouls are there to make Spider-man, Hawkgirl, and Beorn.


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The Feyspeaker Druid has an interesting class feature called "Wild Mischief". You know how Wild Empathy is basically Diplomacy for animals? Wild Mischief is basically a similar style ability to bluff animals.


Ugh. Would it have killed anyone to provide more archetypes for Investigators?


Alex12, there are five of them in there. This isn't a comprehensive list. Investigator gets it's on section...


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Indeed. The full archetype list is:

Archetypes:

Alchemist: alchemical sapper, interrogator, metamorph
Antipaladin: tyrant
Bard: impervious messenger, masked performer, ringleader, sorrowsoul, wit
Cavalier: courtly knight, daring general, hussar
Cleric: cardinal
Druid: feyspeaker, skinshaper, urushiol
Gunslinger: maverick
Hunter: courtly hunter, roof runner
Inquisitor: cloaked wolf, faith hunter, secret seeker, tactical leader, traceless operative, umbral stalker, vigilant defender
Investigator: cipher, conspirator, forensic physician, hallucinist, majordomo
Mesmerist: enigma, eyebiter, fey trickster, thought eater, vizier, vox
Monk: black asp, sage counselor
Occultist: ancestral aspirant, secret broker
Paladin: grey paladin
Ranger: code runner, dandy, guildbreaker, sentinel, transporter
Rogue: consigliere, guild agent, heister, master of disguise, phantom thief, sharper, snoop
Skald: battle scion, bold schemer, instigator, warlord
Slayer: velvet blade
Spiritualist: shadow caller, zeitgeist binder
Summoner: fey caller
Swashbuckler: guiding blade, noble fencer, veiled blade
Vigilante: brute, cabalist, gunmaster, magical child, mounted fury, psychometrist, warlock, wildsoul, zealot


How does the gunmaster vigilante compare to the gunslinger? Do they have starting firearm? Eventual Dexterity modifier to damage? Nifty gun tricks?


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Protoman wrote:
How does the gunmaster vigilante compare to the gunslinger? Do they have starting firearm? Eventual Dexterity modifier to damage? Nifty gun tricks?

1) The Gunmaster Vigilante is much simpler in mechanics. He has no grit but instead has deeds as selectable talents usable x/day.

2) Yes.

3) No.

4) Yes, but not as many as the actual Gunslinger gets.


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Protoman wrote:
How does the gunmaster vigilante compare to the gunslinger? Do they have starting firearm? Eventual Dexterity modifier to damage? Nifty gun tricks?

Basically, they:

1) trade out proficiency with martial weapons and medium armor for proficiency with all guns
2) trade out vigilante specialization for getting the gunslinger's gunsmith ability, to allow them to repair their battered firearm as if they were a gunslinger, and getting a scaling bonus to attack and damage with firearms
3) adds five new vigilante talents related to guns (deadeye, death's shot, gunmaster initiative, lightning reload, and quick clear)
4) replaces unshakable with nimble

No Dexterity to damage that I saw.

Edit: Ninja-ed


Ah those look nifty. Do all the vigilante archetypes trade out the vigilante specializations. At this point I'm wondering which ones I can take while still being an avenger or stalker for the specific their talents.


Anyone able/willing to share a little on:
Gunslinger: maverick
Swashbuckler: guiding blade, noble fencer, veiled blade ?
General flavour, summary of what they get and what it replaces?


Does the Inquisitor pull its usual trick of getting an archetype that makes it a better vigilante than the Vigilante?


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Protoman wrote:
Ah those look nifty. Do all the vigilante archetypes trade out the vigilante specializations. At this point I'm wondering which ones I can take while still being an avenger or stalker for the specific their talents.

Psychometrist does not alter or replace Vigilante Specialization. All of the other Vigilante archetypes do.


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Throne wrote:

Anyone able/willing to share a little on:

Gunslinger: maverick
Swashbuckler: guiding blade, noble fencer, veiled blade ?
General flavour, summary of what they get and what it replaces?

The maverick is generally some sort of gambler or con artist. They trade the gunslinger's dodge deed for stacked deck, which acts something like derring-do for Bluff, Profession (gambler), or Sleight of Hand, pistol whip deed for fist fighter, which gives them Improved Unarmed Strike as long as they have at least a point of grit left, and gunslinger initiative for gun twirl, which grants them Dazzling Display that they can use with any firearm, even if they don't have Weapon Focus with it.

Already went over the swashbuckler archetypes here.

Scarab Sages

David knott 242 wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Ah those look nifty. Do all the vigilante archetypes trade out the vigilante specializations. At this point I'm wondering which ones I can take while still being an avenger or stalker for the specific their talents.

Psychometrist does not alter or replace Vigilante Specialization. All of the other Vigilante archetypes do.

Wildsoul doesn't replace specialization, but it does alter it. You can still take Stalker or Avenger, but you loose some talents in exchange for your spider, bird, or bear related abilities at 2nd, 6th, 12th, and 18th level.


Ahh that's good to know. Hmm make Crimson Falcon more of a bird with wildsoul, use gadgets with psychometrist, or continue to mix it up between unarmed strikes and greatsword or focus on one of the two sticking with base avenger. CHOICES! WANT the book. NEED the book!


Luthorne wrote:

The maverick is generally some sort of gambler or con artist. They trade the gunslinger's dodge deed for stacked deck, which acts something like derring-do for Bluff, Profession (gambler), or Sleight of Hand, pistol whip deed for fist fighter, which gives them Improved Unarmed Strike as long as they have at least a point of grit left, and gunslinger initiative for gun twirl, which grants them Dazzling Display that they can use with any firearm, even if they don't have Weapon Focus with it.

Already went over the swashbuckler archetypes here.

Cheers!

Maverick and Noble Fencer sound potentially promising.


I was expecting to only play my current vigilante and probably not touch the class again. But many of the archetypes seem awesome.

I might just play avenger/psychometrist or avenger/wildsoul at some point. And probably more.

With the rest of the archetypes for various classes sounding interesting, I'm super excited for this book.

Can we get an idea about the animal specialties for the wildsoul? Or the gadgets for the psychometrist?

Scarab Sages

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jedi8187 wrote:


Can we get an idea about the animal specialties for the wildsoul? Or the gadgets for the psychometrist?

Wildsoul can choose between arachnid, falconine, and ursine. Arachnid is Spiderman with spider-sense, web shooting, and web-slinging. Falconine is Hawkgirl with perfect fall, bonuses to perception, winged flight, and a diving charge. Ursine is Beorn from tolkien with claws, a bite, natural armor, and the eventual ability to shapechange to bear form.

Psychometrist gadgets are occultist implements that only grant focus powers, no spellcasting. They all follow the same rules as an occultist using implements.


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jedi8187 wrote:
Can we get an idea about the animal specialties for the wildsoul? Or the gadgets for the psychometrist?

Spoiler:
The wildsoul can choose between arachnid, falconine, or ursine for their natural course.

An arachnid wildsoul gains heightened senses at first, and later on gains the ability to shoot webs at enemies, get a climb speed, can fire strands of sticky webbing that act like rope, and eventually gains the ability to swing from one strand of webbing to another through the air. You might even refer to it as...web-swinging.

A falconine wildsoul can create small wings that allow them to fall safely at first, then gain a large bonus on Perception checks, a fly speed, and eventually gains the ability to dive down on a target from above, dealing extra damage.

An ursine wildsoul can grow a pair of claws to attack with when in his vigilante identity at first, then a bite attack, then a scaling but minor bonus to natural armor, and eventually gains the ability to change into a wild bear at-will.

A psychometrist's gadgets work like an occultist's focus powers, save that they're split up into lots of gadgets instead of all being tied up in the same focus for a given school. An example given is that they might use a scabbard for the legacy weapon focus power, and a pair of boots for the sudden speed focus power.

Edit: Ninja-ed again!


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master_marshmallow wrote:
PFS can't have nice things.

Not only that, PFS is partially responsible for the taking away of nice things from everyone else.


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Ravingdork wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
PFS can't have nice things.
Not only that, PFS is partially responsible for the taking away of nice things from everyone else.

Lemme get a +4 AC against that attack before you roll it please.


I'm really surprised Wildsoul doesn't have a wolf option... also abit confused because when I asked earlier they said wildsoul doesn't have movement abilities....


Milo v3 wrote:
I'm really surprised Wildsoul doesn't have a wolf option... also abit confused because when I asked earlier they said wildsoul doesn't have movement abilities....

it seems obvious, even if the bear covers the natural attack angle. Maybe trip oriented, or teamwork (pack) oriented would be easy to develop.

I like both of those, and they get to have avenger bab witch makes me happy.


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Hmm, I was thinking myself that it would be interesting if they expanded on the wildsoul in a future book with a few extra natural courses...though I was thinking preying mantis or octopus myself. Wolf sounds like it could be neat, though.


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Luthorne wrote:
Hmm, I was thinking myself that it would be interesting if they expanded on the wildsoul in a future book with a few extra natural courses...though I was thinking preying mantis or octopus myself. Wolf sounds like it could be neat, though.

Well I know I'll be making a homebrew that tries to make as many additional animals from the bestiary as possible once it get's to April.


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Luthorne wrote:
Hmm, I was thinking myself that it would be interesting if they expanded on the wildsoul in a future book with a few extra natural courses...though I was thinking preying mantis or octopus myself. Wolf sounds like it could be neat, though.

I'd love an octopus wildsoul. Swimmining speed, water brathing and tentacles would be awesome, though I guess the Metamorph can already have all of this.


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master_marshmallow wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Scavion wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

How did the Grey Paladin and Tyrant turn out?

Did smite get neutered to 1/2 level?

What do they give up?

Tyrant is great. Fixed code and it's good to go. GrAy(Go 'Murica!)Paladin got a bit neutered. Loses all immunities(But still lets you get the +4s the Auras grant) and Divine Grace. Buuuut you can spend two smites to smite an enemy that YOU deem to be an enemy of good whilst still getting normal Smite Evil. Plus party wide nondetection
Losing Divine Grace makes the Gray Paladin a no-go right off from the bat. It sounds like the Paladin is giving up everything that makes the class strong for permission to be a different alignment.

Ignoring the errata on ACG fixes that for home games with a feat.

PFS can't have nice things.

If you're thinking of the feat I think you're thinking of then that was an abomination that was rightfully removed from the game.


It occurred to me that Cardinal (Cleric archetype) is a weird choice of name for something that you can be at character level 1 (rather than being a prestige class), even given its intended political intrigue purpose (and even given that prestige classes have mostly fallen out of favor), since over here on Earth that refers to the highest rank in the Catholic Church short of Pope . . . Uh, maybe they named it after the bird . . . ?


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
It occurred to me that Cardinal (Cleric archetype) is a weird choice of name for something that you can be at character level 1 (rather than being a prestige class), even given its intended political intrigue purpose (and even given that prestige classes have mostly fallen out of favor), since over here on Earth that refers to the highest rank in the Catholic Church short of Pope . . . Uh, maybe they named it after the bird . . . ?

I'm pretty sure it was named after the Richelieu...


UnArcaneElection wrote:
It occurred to me that Cardinal (Cleric archetype) is a weird choice of name for something that you can be at character level 1 (rather than being a prestige class), even given its intended political intrigue purpose (and even given that prestige classes have mostly fallen out of favor), since over here on Earth that refers to the highest rank in the Catholic Church short of Pope . . . Uh, maybe they named it after the bird . . . ?

It's because cardinal rank high enough that is has a degree of political power. Simple as that. I mean, why find this strange when druids were at the top of their society?


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Don't think that analogy works... Cardinal is a SPECIFIC RANK.
Druid is not, there were novice Druids, and top leadership Druids.
Like Aristocrat or Noble is not a specific rank, you have barely Aristocrats to Dukes and Kings.

I don't know what the alternative to Cardinal would be though, Scheming Cleric?
Then again, they don't seem to get any specific class abilities for that,
they are swapping PC Class Features for NPC Expert Class Features (Skill Ranks).

Which is kind of my issue with it, gaining NPC Class Features is not an even trade for a PC Class.
Having Skill Ranks is what you need to even start the conversation on filling a role,
that isn't remotely enough to fulfill the PATHFINDER standard for Class Ability design.
Adding in some non-combat Inquisitor abilities, and/or non-combat Rogue/Investigator abilities would be logical.
(or Favored Community bonuses ala Urban Ranger? maybe with more social-focused skills it applies to?)


Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?


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Avadriel wrote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?

I haven't seen the final class yet, but I do fear it will eclipse the slayer. Hopefully it doesn't.

Fighter is in an ok place with the weapon masters handbook. I assume the armor masters handbook will improve things further.

Shadow Lodge

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Avadriel wrote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?

It might bother me if I still used Fighter for anything but NPCs....


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Avadriel wrote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?

Sounds good to me :P

Scarab Sages

Avadriel wrote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?

I'd say they are about equal with advanced weapon training.

Liberty's Edge

Avadriel wrote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that a vigilante can effectively and actually get more combat feats than a fighter while still you know, having narrative power?

As Melkiador notes, Advanced Weapon Training helps the Fighter a lot, and Advanced Armor Training seems set to help even more. Without those Slayer already basically did this. I mean, it technically got one whole Feat less, but also got Sneak Attack.

Melkiador wrote:
I haven't seen the final class yet, but I do fear it will eclipse the slayer. Hopefully it doesn't.

Well, you can't have Full BAB + Sneak Attack as a Vigilante, and wind up with less HP than Slayer. Depending on what they did between the playtest and the book, you hopefully have some compensatory advantages, but it doesn't do all the Slayer stuff only better or anything.

Melkiador wrote:
Fighter is in an ok place with the weapon masters handbook. I assume the armor masters handbook will improve things further.

That does seem likely.


What bonuses gives the basic ability is, skinshaper archetype for the druid?


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PhD. Okkam wrote:
What bonuses gives the basic ability is, skinshaper archetype for the druid?

As Alter Self with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat temporarily granted as a bonus feat.

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