The Most Intriguing Classes

Wednesday, March 10, 2016

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue is only a few weeks away, and it's time for the first rules preview blog—this time focusing on classes!

The new class in Ultimate Intrigue is the vigilante. An upstanding member of society by day and adventurer by night, the vigilante has two different identities which can even have different alignments. Unless someone discovers that the two identities are the same, divinations like scrying only work when the vigilante is in the form the diviner is trying to scry. Each vigilante chooses to be either a stalker, focusing on sneaking up on foes and punishing them before the foe notices the stalker is there, or the avenger, focusing on giving foes a more straightforward beatdown and gaining a full base attack bonus. The vigilante class is extremely modular, with a talent option at every level, switching off between social talents that give him an edge in social situations and other intrigue hijinks out of combat, and vigilante talents, which generally provide powerful combat options that he can use in either identity, though it might give him away if people see him using them in his social identity.


Illustrations by Tomasz Chistowski

If you've been with us since the playtest, the biggest change is that zealot and warlock are now archetypes, and while avenger and stalker each have some talents that only that specialization can choose, many of the talents that seemed like they fit the vigilante in general are now available to all vigilantes, as you requested in the playtest. Also, you asked for social talents based on being a craftsman or professional, and those are now available as well!

So I mentioned that warlock and zealot (which were arcane and divine vigilantes for those of you not part of the playtest) are now archetypes. All told, the vigilante has 10 pages of archetypes, the most that any class has ever received in a book. After all, he has plenty of catch-up in order to match his older cousins that have been around for more books. The brute has a hulking out-of control vigilante identity, and he can't always stop the transformation when he's in danger. Cabalists make blood pacts with dark patrons, gaining witch spells, blood powers, and a familiar. Gunmasters bring justice with firearms, and they gain a bunch of deeds as potential vigilante talents. The magical child archetype covers the "magical girl" trope, with a transformation sequence ability (faster switch between identities, but with flashy lights and music), summoner spells, and an otherworldly buddy. Mounted furies are mounted vigilantes like Zorro whose steeds also have a secret identity. Psychometrists are gadgetmasters and tinkerers who create personal occult gadgets to do things like fly (basically creating gadgets that each perform a single occultist focus power). Warlocks, are arcane casters from the magus list, with elemental options and mystic bolts of energy. Wildsouls are vigilantes who gain animalistic features in their vigilante identity. Finally, zealots are secret champions of their faiths, often because their religion is outlawed or persecuted, who cast from the inquisitor list and smite foes of one opposing alignment.

But vigilantes aren't the only ones with archetypes. Exciting archetypes for other classes include the tyrant (a lawful evil antipaladin archetype!), cardinal (a politics-heavy cleric with 6 skill points per level), gray paladin (can be one step from lawful good and smite any foe, but the lack of absolute conviction makes many abilities less absolute), fey caller (unchained summoner that summons a fey, with an all-new fey eidolon), zeitgeist binder (spiritualist that calls in a local zeitgeist based on a settlement statistic like corruption or society), battle scion (Celt/King Arthur blend skald that can call others to a quest and go into a deathlike sleep to return some day), dandy (a courtly ranger with the ability to manipulate rumors instead of wild empathy), vizier (a mesmerist that has a "power behind the throne" ability to make it look like his allies are the real threat while insidiously influencing them for his own agenda), feyspeaker (a fey-themed druid with 6 skill points per level that casts using Charisma!), and plenty more. In addition, the classes chapter two new inquisitions (Crime and Secrets), three new ranger combat styles (deceptive, menacing, and underhanded), four new rogue talents (follow along, shades of gray, hidden mind, and stalker talent), an oracle mystery (Intrigue), and even five intrigue-themed kineticist utility wild talents (earthmeld, flame trap, spying touchsight, greater voice of the wind, and greater watersense).

Tune in next week to hear more about some of the cool feats, spells, and magic items of intrigue!

Mark Seifter
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder RPG Tomasz Chistowski Ultimate Intrigue Vigilante
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Blog wrote:
the tyrant (a lawful evil antipaladin archetype!)

Asmodeus tries to stifle his laughter as Cayden Cailean chokes back bitter tears of jealousy.


Can Slayers take any of the new Rogue talents?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

A vizier archetype for mesmerist. I assume this comes standard with a red parrot familiar. Interesting new niches filled in this book!

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
My Self wrote:
This page wrote:
Mounted furies are mounted vigilantes like Zorro whose steeds also have a secret identity.
... What?

He-Man and Battle Cat.

She-Ra and Swift Wind.

QuickDraw McGraw and El Kabong.

Scarab Sages

Ventnor wrote:
Can Slayers take any of the new Rogue talents?

Per mark up thread, no. Only unchained rogues.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really wish this had been out before Hell's Rebels. We made our characters last night. I'm using the play test vigilante, but a lot of these options might have inspiring for other players.


Imbicatus wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
Can Slayers take any of the new Rogue talents?
Per mark up thread, no. Only unchained rogues.

That may have been about that particular talent not necessarily all of them.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's interesting the psychic archetype is more Iron Man than The Shadow.


Well this book just got loads cooler for me!


I hope the fey eidolon gets some good stuff to make up for the fact it only gets a wizard's HD/BA.

I still hope to one day see a chaotic good paladin archetype. Also a chaotic neutral paladin archetype or something similar.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Dragon78 wrote:

I hope the fey eidolon gets some good stuff to make up for the fact it only gets a wizard's HD/BA.

I still hope to one day see a chaotic good paladin archetype. Also a chaotic neutral paladin archetype or something similar.

You assume it gets wizard HD and base attack ;)

Liberty's Edge Developer

17 people marked this as a favorite.
Hrothdane wrote:

A MAGICAL GIRL ARCHETYPE

My soul is full of joy!

Yeah, Amanda Hamon Kunz did an AMAZING job on the vigilante archetypes in this book! There are all kinds of sneaky ways to make you favorite heroes now. Leave it to a huge comics nerd to bring that to the gaming table :)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

I hope the fey eidolon gets some good stuff to make up for the fact it only gets a wizard's HD/BA.

I still hope to one day see a chaotic good paladin archetype. Also a chaotic neutral paladin archetype or something similar.

You assume it gets wizard HD and base attack ;)

To be fair, the First Worlder did.

That said, I'm glad to see how boundary-pushing and innovative a lot of the new content looks. ^_^


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Seeing how many of these are superhero-inspired, and with the Vigilante being a straight up superhero class, I hope one of the magic items is a way to emulate swinging, such as the old Rod of Ropes.


I wish there was a way to give eidolons non-melee based abilities such as a kineticist's simple blast, healer/medic abilities like channel or lay on hands, more skill points/class skills, etc. basically if you a want eidolon that is a non-warrior type but still very useful in combat and/or out of combat.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Dragon78 wrote:
I wish there was a way to give eidolons non-melee based abilities such as a kineticist's simple blast, healer/medic abilities like channel or lay on hands, more skill points/class skills, etc. basically if you a want eidolon that is a non-warrior type but still very useful in combat and/or out of combat.

Fey sure do sound like they might have a few tricks up their sleeve compared to the usual eidolon, though, don't they?


Was hoping for a Passion Oracle Mystery and some new Oracle Curses but oh wells, maybe sometime later in another book. :(

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dragon78 wrote:
I wish there was a way to give eidolons non-melee based abilities such as a kineticist's simple blast, healer/medic abilities like channel or lay on hands, more skill points/class skills, etc. basically if you a want eidolon that is a non-warrior type but still very useful in combat and/or out of combat.

Like a droid. But not necessarily a construct.


Berselius wrote:
Was hoping for a Passion Oracle Mystery and some new Oracle Curses but oh wells, maybe sometime later in another book. :(

Oracle Curses seem likelier to show up in Horror. A particular mystery to be made is a little specific to get your hopes up over. "Passion" might be best represented as Intrigue for the mystery and Wrecking Mystecism on a Kitsune for the curse, allowing you to trade out the bonus spells for the Extra Tail feat, giving you access to various charms and illusions.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How will the archetypes work with the specializations? Will they just replace that aspect of the vigilante? Require selecting a specific specialization? Or will some still allow selecting a specialization?

Paizo Employee Designer

Brew Bird wrote:
How will the archetypes work with the specializations? Will they just replace that aspect of the vigilante? Require selecting a specific specialization? Or will some still allow selecting a specialization?

They're archetypes, so it all depends on whether they have "this replaces specialization" or "this alters specialization".

Silver Crusade

Crystal Frasier wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

A MAGICAL GIRL ARCHETYPE

My soul is full of joy!

Yeah, Amanda Hamon Kunz did an AMAZING job on the vigilante archetypes in this book! There are all kinds of sneaky ways to make you favorite heroes now. Leave it to a huge comics nerd to bring that to the gaming table :)

I love it! I've always loved superheroes :)

I cant wait to see this book!


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so am I the only one who doesn't know what the "magical girl" trope is?

Paizo Employee Designer

Moto Muck wrote:
so am I the only one who doesn't know what the "magical girl" trope is?

Nah, it's not just you. You could check tvtropes, but if you do, it might suck you in, so I'll just say that Sailor Moon is the most famous.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Moto Muck wrote:
so am I the only one who doesn't know what the "magical girl" trope is?
Nah, it's not just you. You could check tvtropes, but if you do, it might suck you in, so I'll just say that Sailor Moon is the most famous.

Warning: May cause diabetes.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Moto Muck wrote:
so am I the only one who doesn't know what the "magical girl" trope is?
Nah, it's not just you. You could check tvtropes, but if you do, it might suck you in, so I'll just say that Sailor Moon is the most famous.
Warning: May cause diabetes.

It's missing Sasami: Magical Girls Club! :P

Paizo Employee Developer

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Hrothdane wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

A MAGICAL GIRL ARCHETYPE

My soul is full of joy!

Yeah, Amanda Hamon Kunz did an AMAZING job on the vigilante archetypes in this book! There are all kinds of sneaky ways to make you favorite heroes now. Leave it to a huge comics nerd to bring that to the gaming table :)

I love it! I've always loved superheroes :)

I cant wait to see this book!

:D

Some of the ideas came from the design team, and some from my own nerdy excitement. Sometime soon, I'm going to put together some thoughts about how I sat down, wrote out my pie-in-the-sky hopes for what types of character concepts I could include as vigilante archetypes -- and then had to get realistic about what I could include in the given word count. And then took that pared-down list and ran with it.

It was a ridiculously fun assignment.

Scarab Sages

I'm still bugged that Paizo's decided to peg the ever-evocative title "Warlock" to a mere 6-level-casting Archetype of another class. It really ought to be its own class - like a Chaotic arcane parallel-universe antipode to the Monk or something - or even an Alternate Class to the Arcanist is something I could also see.


Miraculous Ladybug is less sugary but also story lite as well.

I hope there are even more archetypes that increase skill points.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:
Oh god Battle Scion has me all in the vapors.
The battle scion's "Once and Future Scion" power is indeed pretty cool. Hmm, I wonder who that other archetype with the "Skald of Twists and Turns" power could be based off? :D

Wow, Battle Scion is a pretty cool-sounding name! I know I certainly like it


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I'm still bugged that Paizo's decided to peg the ever-evocative title "Warlock" to a mere 6-level-casting Archetype of another class. It really ought to be its own class - like a Chaotic arcane parallel-universe antipode to the Monk or something - or even an Alternate Class to the Arcanist is something I could also see.

Not unheard of. Heck Occultist is a class and an archetype of Arcanist. It's far from off the table.

Scarab Sages

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jedi8187 wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I'm still bugged that Paizo's decided to peg the ever-evocative title "Warlock" to a mere 6-level-casting Archetype of another class. It really ought to be its own class - like a Chaotic arcane parallel-universe antipode to the Monk or something - or even an Alternate Class to the Arcanist is something I could also see.

Not unheard of. Heck Occultist is a class and an archetype of Arcanist. It's far from off the table.

And swashbuckler is a class and and a rogue archetpye. However, as warlock is a D&D class that was never released under the OGL, don't get your hopes up on a pathfinder warlock class.

Paizo Employee Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Amanda Hamon Kunz wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

A MAGICAL GIRL ARCHETYPE

My soul is full of joy!

Yeah, Amanda Hamon Kunz did an AMAZING job on the vigilante archetypes in this book! There are all kinds of sneaky ways to make you favorite heroes now. Leave it to a huge comics nerd to bring that to the gaming table :)

I love it! I've always loved superheroes :)

I cant wait to see this book!

:D

Some of the ideas came from the design team, and some from my own nerdy excitement. Sometime soon, I'm going to put together some thoughts about how I sat down, wrote out my pie-in-the-sky hopes for what types of character concepts I could include as vigilante archetypes -- and then had to get realistic about what I could include in the given word count. And then took that pared-down list and ran with it.

It was a ridiculously fun assignment.

I really liked the psychometrist the moment you handed it over; such an elegant design for so many possible concepts.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I want to play a Vizier for Hell's Vengeance.

Silver Crusade

(reluctantly becomes excited about the new hardcover)


Mark Seifter wrote:
Xethik wrote:


Thanks for the Rogue love! My only concern is this not having a clause making it available to Unchained Rogue. Say it ain't so Mark! I want to sleep easy tonight.
They are only for Unchained rogues (it says to consider allowing them for regular rogues) but not for any other class or alternate class that can gain access to rogue talents.

The Slayer could really use some design attention though. The avenger is already in its woefully crowded niche. Please tell me Slayers finally have something nice to look forward to.


I am very happy to see multiple fey themed archetypes. I hope there will be some fey themed magic items and feats as well.


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I thought about how I could use vigilantes in my campaigns.

For one, I think it could be cool to have a whole Norgorber cult made up of vigilantes; holding ordinary jobs by day at the inn, blacksmith, tannery, or orphanage...until the sun goes down, they don their masks, and set out with murder in mind...

Or, a Baphomet cultist. Seeing as how Baphomet's followers prefer secrecy and infiltration, his social identity could be a nobleman and his vigilante form could wear an ivory goat mask.


I gasped out loud three times while reading this.

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So magical girl, we getting a piece of art for that archetype or are we all going to have to wonder what a medieval Osagi looks like?

bonus points:
If she's from Galt. Guillotine Princess of truth and justice is all I'm saying.


For that matter, the Vigilante concept would be especially fitting for both Council of Thieves and Hell's Rebels.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Oddly enough as I was listening to the great Pathfinder Tales Novel: Death's Heretic by James L. Sutter I was thinking wouldn't it be great if there was a fey option for Unchained Summoner? And now there is!!!!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
doc the grey wrote:

So magical girl, we getting a piece of art for that archetype or are we all going to have to wonder what a medieval Osagi looks like?

** spoiler omitted **

I'm sure we will. They couldn't not have art for the magical child. ^_^

(If she doesn't have a fancy rod/staff/wand and some sort of cat - big or small - I'll be very disappointed.)


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Some future Vigilante Archetypes I'm expecting:

Something that gives it bardic performance style abilities.
Something granting bloodline powers (X-men anyone?)
Something grants bombs and alchemy (Brute may cover mutagen style abilities)
Something with an Oracle's curse and mysteries
One using the Investigator's studied combat, studied strike, and inspiration
One with Mesmerist tricks and stares
And perhaps one with a spirit companion

Some of these already have kind of iconic inspiration in superheroes and such, but there seems to be a definite trend in the vigilante specializations/archetypes of "this is the vigilante version of this class". Not bad, I actually love that, helps make an entire group of vigilante's more viable.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Duiker wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
My Self wrote:
This page wrote:
Mounted furies are mounted vigilantes like Zorro whose steeds also have a secret identity.
... What?

He-Man and Battle Cat.

She-Ra and Swift Wind.
Also, Ace and Gary

Blue Falcon and Dyno-Mutt.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
doc the grey wrote:

So magical girl, we getting a piece of art for that archetype or are we all going to have to wonder what a medieval Osagi looks like?

** spoiler omitted **

They showed off the art for the magical girl archetype on their first twitch stream a little bit ago, honestly looked like my girl homura ~<3.

Sovereign Court

Man am I excited about this book now.


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I'm glad to see the class was wittled down to 2 Specializations, but I'm still not convinced that what needed to be done was actually done to this class.

It still sounds like the Fighter but with Class Options instead of Feats and even less actual baseline mechanics than Weapon and Armor Training... which isn't good.

"Modular" is shorthand for "godforsakenly awful unless you know exactly what you're doing"... which is a less-nice way of saying "PhD in System Mastery required".

---

The Magical Child archetype allowing for a "transformation sequence" seems to hint towards the baseline Vigilante taking a fair amount of time to transform, which was one of the biggest complaints against the class in the Playtest (you'll be in one form over the other 90% of the time just because transforming takes far too long).

---

I'm really hoping I'm wrong here, 'cause I usually like to put more faith in PF stuff, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this class probably still has far too much roleplaying fluff shoved sideways into it while being called "mechanics" than actually having hard mechanics that a Class rightly should have - since it gives the class more direct identity and makes building simpler & more intuitive.

Unless they've been neutered to innocuousness or non-integral status to the Class (like making a Base actually optional, instead of required or virtually required), the "fluffchanics" will remain not only awkward & restrictive (as they were in the playtest), but ultimately downright harmful to players (hope you're not caught in a surprise fight while in the wrong form...).

I'll still end up getting the book; I'll just make sure to look through a physical copy before buying it in case the class takes up a good chunk of the book and is still mostly as bad as the playtest was - if that ends up being the case, it might get put way on the backburner if the rest of the book doesn't make up for the bad stuff.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
MusicAddict wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

So magical girl, we getting a piece of art for that archetype or are we all going to have to wonder what a medieval Osagi looks like?

** spoiler omitted **

They showed off the art for the magical girl archetype on their first twitch stream a little bit ago, honestly looked like my girl homura ~<3.

Got any links to that art?

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
chbgraphicarts wrote:
I'm glad to see the class was wittled down to 2 Specializations, but I'm still not convinced that what needed to be done was actually done to this class.

Well, given that we got zero information on what's been done to the main class (beyond Avenger still having Full BAB and combative talents being usable in social identity)...what did you expect?

chbgraphicarts wrote:
It still sounds like the Fighter but with Class Options instead of Feats and even less actual baseline mechanics than Weapon and Armor Training... which isn't good.

Assuming nothing was done, sure. That's a pretty big assumption at this point.

chbgraphicarts wrote:
"Modular" is shorthand for "godforsakenly awful unless you know exactly what you're doing"... which is a less-nice way of saying "PhD in System Mastery required".

Uh...no it isn't. A lot of classes are pretty modular without being all that hard to build. Depending on how you define modular anyway...

Alchemists, for example, are not super difficult. Nor are Slayers.

chbgraphicarts wrote:
The Magical Child archetype allowing for a "transformation sequence" seems to hint towards the baseline Vigilante taking a fair amount of time to transform, which was one of the biggest complaints against the class in the Playtest (you'll be in one form over the other 90% of the time just because transforming takes far too long).

Given that you can now use combative abilities in either form...this doesn't actually follow logically. You usually have at least a minute to prep for social stuff, so you can run around adventuring as the Red Raven (or whatever) and then change to your civilian identity for social stuff just fine. It'll occasionally be inconvenient to get caught in your social identity but not crippling or anything.

chbgraphicarts wrote:
I'm really hoping I'm wrong here, 'cause I usually like to put more faith in PF stuff, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this class probably still has far too much roleplaying fluff shoved sideways into it while being called "mechanics" than actually having hard mechanics that a Class rightly should have - since it gives the class more direct identity and makes building simpler & more intuitive.

On what basis? I mean, I wasn't a huge fan of the way the playtest Class looked either, but given that they've clearly done a pretty radical revamp (spellcasting now requires an Archetype, there are general Talents anyone can take, Talents can all be used in social identity) it seems pretty likely they've made enough other changes that there's no real basis for this before looking it over.

chbgraphicarts wrote:
Unless they've been neutered to innocuousness or non-integral status to the Class (like making a Base actually optional, instead of required or virtually required), the "fluffchanics" will remain not only awkward & restrictive (as they were in the playtest), but ultimately downright harmful to players (hope you're not caught in a surprise fight while in the wrong form...).

Uh...the blog post specifically mentioned you can now use the combat stuff in your social identity if necessary, it's just potentially suspicious. That pretty much proves they've removed at least some of this. And is indicative that they may have removed much more.

chbgraphicarts wrote:
I'll still end up getting the book; I'll just make sure to look through a physical copy before buying it in case the class takes up a good chunk of the book and is still mostly as bad as the playtest was - if that ends up being the case, it might get put way on the backburner if the rest of the book doesn't make up for the bad stuff.

Well, classes take up 15 pages at most (unless you count Kineticist, which took 21, but that included the equivalent of a full 'spell' list). So, that plus 10 pages of archetypes are what, 30 pages total on the high end? Much more likely 20 pages or less total.

That seems likely to be 10% of the book at most. I dunno if disliking that (even if you do, which seems like a huge assumption at this point) should be enough to not get the book.

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