The Most Intriguing Classes

Dragon78 wrote:

I hope they don't loose there wild shape ability.

I hope they do lose it, means the class will be less grab-bag-y and means they can do more with the archetype.

I don't see much point to a druid without wild shape, to be honest. I always considered it was the class' most iconic ability and one of it' more useful, right behind it's spellcasting.

I like the whole Nature Bond ability that druids get, and I like wildshape too, but oh... a charisma based druid is like a dream come true for me. I tend to play charisma based classes but I've always wanted to play a druid. Well,,, this shall be interesting to see how this one is built.

Hmm

I like the whole Nature Bond ability that druids get, and I like wildshape too, but oh... a charisma based druid is like a dream come true for me. I tend to play charisma based classes but I've always wanted to play a druid. Well,,, this shall be interesting to see how this one is built.

Hmm

I don't care which ability is used for spellcasting but if I have to choose between memorized casting and spontaneous casting, I'll choose spontaneous almost everytime.

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

I'm tempted to make a changeling feyspeaker, especially if it's PFS-legal. With all those natural weapon buffs, my claws might finally see some use.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what it looks like. ^_^

Kitsune feyspeaker! Oh man! I won't even need wildshape!

I'm thinking about a catfolk or a fanglord for this archetype myslef. :)

Kitsune feyspeaker! Oh man! I won't even need wildshape!

You will if you want to qualify for Natural Spell.

I must admit, the earlier talk on magical girls amused me. *Chuckles* It's kind of a weird genre, really. First it's all sparkles and rainbows and friendship, then it's stuff like this and laser beams and explosions.

That said, I'm really looking forward to the release of this book. ^^ It should be fun to see what new options we'll have.

A catfolk feyspeaker sounds cool.

Protoman wrote:

Kitsune feyspeaker! Oh man! I won't even need wildshape!

You will if you want to qualify for Natural Spell.

If other kitsune spellcasters in fox shape can deal with it, the feyspeaker can suck it up too lol.

I do agree that wild shape is a pretty iconic druid ability, but if they replace it with something that feels equally iconic for a fey-themed druid, that would be pretty interesting. Maybe an ability to take on various fey abilities, or gain more fey-themed spells, or even transforming into various kinds of fey? Will have to wait and see, though.

If they replace wild shape with fey shape that would be cool. But unless they have added fey based polymorph spells to this book, I doubt there will be such a class feature.

I'll let you know in a few...just got my email...

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

Protoman wrote:

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

Oh darn.

Well that is still interesting, but dashes my hopes of less bookkeeping with spells. I'm sure kitsune feyspeaker will still be awesome.

Being a prepared caster seems like a bigger gain for the divine classes, since they usually get their whole spell list for free. It's not like the arcane prepared casters who start with a limited selection of spells.

Protoman wrote:

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

And to say I had so many hopes for this archetype...*Cries*

Damn it! I want a charisma based cleric!!!!

Mark Seifter wrote:

Protoman wrote:

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

And to say I had so much hope for this archetype...*Cries*

If you want to change out the feyspeaker's spells per day for the oracle chart of spells per day and spells known (still off the druid list with the adjustments in the archetype, naturally), I won't tell anyone, and it'd be a balanced option. ^_~

Thanks Mark, but houseruling just isn't the same.
Oh well. There still the Vigilante to get excited about.

Well I have lost all interest in the feyspeaker since it isn't a spontaneous caster. I am very disappointed with this news.

I'm a bit surprised at how many fans of spontaneous divine casting there are. I got along fine with my Oracle, but often found myself wishing I had the freedom given by spell preparation.

I'm a bit surprised at how many fans of spontaneous divine casting there are. I got along fine with my Oracle, but often found myself wishing I had the freedom given by spell preparation.

I was actually close to giving the archetype spontaneous casting and had it like that for a little while, but in the end after looking at some load-outs with the druid list, it seemed to work better with the theme and with the way you get more spells added to your spell list (which, to take advantage of as spontaneous, you'd then need to learn as spells known) as prepared Charisma.

Huh, I know people like Spontaneous casting but to me I wouldn't want that with the Druid list really. It would take some pretty major bonuses (in-line with Oracle mysteries) for the list to play well in my opinion.

Does a Nature Oracle not fill that gap enough for most people?

I'm interested to see more exciting things like Charisma prepared casting and the Fey flavor to go with it. I'd be excited for an Arcanist-like Druid (or Shaman!), but pure spontaneous? Not totally interesting to me.

Being a prepared caster seems like a bigger gain for the divine classes, since they usually get their whole spell list for free. It's not like the arcane prepared casters who start with a limited selection of spells.

I don't play prepared casters.

I'll use the most impractical, convoluted ways to get a spontaneous caster caracter to obtain the same abilities as a prepared caster class, but I won't have anythin to do with Vancian magic if I can help it.

(In D&D 3.5, I once built a ranger/spirit shaman/abolisher rather than play a druid.)

Huh, I know people like Spontaneous casting but to me I wouldn't want that with the Druid list really. It would take some pretty major bonuses (in-line with Oracle mysteries) for the list to play well in my opinion.

Does a Nature Oracle not fill that gap enough for most people?

If the Nature Oracle had Wild Shape, it would.

I'm interested to see more exciting things like Charisma prepared casting and the Fey flavor to go with it. I'd be excited for an Arcanist-like Druid, but pure spontaneous? Not totally interesting to me.

A druid with the Arcanist's versatile casting would indeed be awesome.

The thing with prepared casters is that you just leave some of the spell slots free and then memorize them in the field as needed. And with the divine caster's access to his entire spell list, that's a very powerful amount of flexibility.

I have been wanting a cha based spontaneous caster with the druid spell list for Pathfinder for several years. I would prefer a new class but would settle for a well done archetype.

Wood, Nature, Lunar, and Dark Tapestry oracles cover most of the need to a spontaneous Druid imo. Wood and Nature have the spells, Nature and Lunar have the companion, and Wood and Dark Tapestry have the shapeshifting.

While I understand the desire for the niche, there are option to make that character type now.

Edit: And Hunter delivers it too, albeit with 6th level casting.

Xethik wrote:

Huh, I know people like Spontaneous casting but to me I wouldn't want that with the Druid list really. It would take some pretty major bonuses (in-line with Oracle mysteries) for the list to play well in my opinion.

Does a Nature Oracle not fill that gap enough for most people?

If the Nature Oracle had Wild Shape, it would.

Honestly, the main draw of the Druid class for me is the shapeshifting, not the nature oriented spells, or I'd be perfectly happy playing a Magaaambyan Initiate instead.

Ah I see. Lunar Oracle gets a little bit, but limited to just beasts.

Xethik wrote:

I'm interested to see more exciting things like Charisma prepared casting and the Fey flavor to go with it. I'd be excited for an Arcanist-like Druid, but pure spontaneous? Not totally interesting to me.

A druid with the Arcanist's versatile casting would indeed be awesome.

Of course I'm sure they could make an awesome spontaneous Druid, don't get me wrong! I think the Spirit Shaman-like casting would be an interesting approach, but I was not in love with that class overall. Just my opinion, though.

A bit disappointed not to get the spontaneous druid... something fey based would indeed be thematically appropriate.

I guess the prob was that you couldnt adopt a chop-shop approach to the archetype... since the concept is almost worthy of a class itself a la the Oracle.

Getting a couple spells from the druid list doesn't make it a druid caster. The Oracle is a spontaneous cleric caster, not a druid one. It is not the same thing.

The hunter is a spontaneous druid+ranger caster, however; 6th, but with some pretty useful early access from ranger.

Wood, Nature, Lunar, and Dark Tapestry oracles cover most of the need to a spontaneous Druid imo. Wood and Nature have the spells, Nature and Lunar have the companion, and Wood and Dark Tapestry have the shapeshifting.

While I understand the desire for the niche, there are option to make that character type now.

Edit: And Hunter delivers it too, albeit with 6th level casting.

All of those options offer strictly inferior alternatives, though.

Protoman wrote:

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

Mark Seifter wrote:

Protoman wrote:

I'm loving the fact that the feyspeaker is a spontaneous caster. Prepared casting always throw me into indecision paralysis so I've haven't played a prepared caster since a witch in 2011.

It's actually a prepared Charisma caster, which is even a bit more special because that makes it the only prepared 9-level Charisma caster I can think of at the moment (paladin is prepared but 4th)!

And to say I had so many hopes for this archetype...*Cries*

Well I have lost all interest in the feyspeaker since it isn't a spontaneous caster. I am very disappointed with this news.

Hmm wrote:

I like the whole Nature Bond ability that druids get, and I like wildshape too, but oh... a charisma based druid is like a dream come true for me. I tend to play charisma based classes but I've always wanted to play a druid. Well,,, this shall be interesting to see how this one is built.

Hmm

I don't care which ability is used for spellcasting but if I have to choose between memorized casting and spontaneous casting, I'll choose spontaneous almost everytime.

All of these.

Add me to the "so very disappointed with this reveal" list. I'll be houseruling that away immediately, or just sticking to Kobold Press's Shaman.

Imbicatus wrote:

Wood, Nature, Lunar, and Dark Tapestry oracles cover most of the need to a spontaneous Druid imo. Wood and Nature have the spells, Nature and Lunar have the companion, and Wood and Dark Tapestry have the shapeshifting.

While I understand the desire for the niche, there are option to make that character type now.

Edit: And Hunter delivers it too, albeit with 6th level casting.

All of those options offer strictly inferior alternatives, though.

Lesser shapeshifting, lesser spellcasting, narrower choice in animal companions...
I've played Lunar Oracles as spontaneous casting druid-lite. It's not satifying. I couldn't really play the way a druid would have. Trying to play druid-lite lessens the character.
I expect it would be the same with most of the options you mentioned.

Yep. Basically the exact same problems people who wanted a non-CE Antipaladin have with people who say "just play Warpriest or Inquisitor".

Warpriest is way more bad ass then Anti-Paladin, only thing holding it back is the 3/4 BAB.

Warpriest is way more bad ass then Anti-Paladin, only thing holding it back is the 3/4 BAB.

And the crappy saves, lack of smiting (unless archetype), and even then MAD comes into effect.

Personally the hunter should have been a martial class with d10 HP/full BA. Regardless it is not a cha based spontaneous casting druid.

Warpriest is way more bad ass then Anti-Paladin, only thing holding it back is the 3/4 BAB.

Couldn't disagree more.

Personally the hunter should have been a martial class with d10 HP/full BA. Regardless it is not a cha based spontaneous casting druid.

Hunter definitely does not need full BAB.

Personally the hunter should have been a martial class with d10 HP/full BA. Regardless it is not a cha based spontaneous casting druid.

No, it's a WIS based spontaneous casting druid. Only downside is you have to choose between the companion or wild shape.

I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.

Getting a couple spells from the druid list doesn't make it a druid caster. The Oracle is a spontaneous cleric caster, not a druid one. It is not the same thing.

You misunderstood what I meant!

A spontaneous druid could (and probably should) almost be made into a new class... an archetype wouldnt do it justice.

Dragon78 wrote:

Getting a couple spells from the druid list doesn't make it a druid caster. The Oracle is a spontaneous cleric caster, not a druid one. It is not the same thing.

You misunderstood what I meant!

A spontaneous druid could (and probably should) almost be made into a new class... an archetype wouldnt do it justice.

I don't see why not. The Eldritch scion and Mindblade are perfectly functional archetypes, for example.

I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.

Robert Brookes is a fun freelancer to work with because he'll often try something pretty daring. When I first read the archetype, I was like "Wait, it loses alchemy. But that's so much stuff!" But I also have been wanting a more martial shapeshifter for a while, and obviously so has Robert, so I saw what he was getting at, made a few synergistic tweaks, and here we have it. I mocked up a few characters with it and it can do some pretty fun tricks.

I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.

Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?

Silver Surfer wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

Getting a couple spells from the druid list doesn't make it a druid caster. The Oracle is a spontaneous cleric caster, not a druid one. It is not the same thing.

You misunderstood what I meant!

A spontaneous druid could (and probably should) almost be made into a new class... an archetype wouldnt do it justice.

I don't see why not. The Eldritch scion and Mindblade are perfectly functional archetypes, for example.

This is debatable.

Imbicatus wrote:

I have to say I LOVE the Metamorph alchemist. I finally have a martial shapeshifter.

Does it still have bombs and/or extracts?

Gives up alchemy entirely - bombs, extracts, and mutagen. It adds back mutagen as a separate class feature, and can still take discoveries, but not anything effecting extracts or bombs.