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More About Paizo Game Space

Thursday, October 18, 2012


The Swallowtail Festival from Rise of the Runelords in full swing! We still don't know who invited the dragon...

At the PaizoCon 2012 banquet, we announced we've been working on Paizo Game Space, a virtual tabletop that runs right in your web browser. We've shown some screenshots, and clarified why we're doing this (hint: it's not to crush our enemies). But now it's been a few months, and the VTT isn't available yet, so we'd like to give you an update on where we are and answer some big questions: "When can I use it?" and "How much will it cost?"

When can I use it?

We're going to be starting public beta testing in the next few weeks. This beta test will be open to anybody who bought a ticket online for PaizoCon 2012. This gives us a reasonably limited group of people to bang on it and break the obvious stuff so we can fix it before opening it up to everybody. Ideally, the beta test will last just a few weeks, but that will depend on what breaks.

How much will it cost?

As we've said before, it'll be free to play. But we'll have ways for you to give us money. Since we're talking about selling access to digital data, pretty much anything is possible, but initially, we're focusing on maps, tokens and adventures.

We've also settled on some basic principles:

  • If you buy it, you keep it. That means no limited number of uses, no monthly fees, no pay-per-play, no rentals. If you buy a token set for Paizo Game Space, you can use those tokens whenever you like. Period. There's no extra charge to use the same token in multiple games. You won't have to pay us again next year to keep using it. And if you buy a campaign and want to run multiple groups through it, you can do that, too.
  • If someone at the table has it, everybody can see it. Rather than make GMs have to purchase everything, we think it's important for players to be able to help out. So if Karzoug is running a campaign, and needs Flip-Mat: Country Inn, Merisiel can just let him use hers.*

So how much does that Flip-Mat cost Merisiel? We're still working out pricing for things like Adventure Paths and token packs, but we can tell you this: Flip-Mats and Map Packs will be just $1.99. And if you already bought the PDF for a Flip-Mat or Map Pack? You can use it in Paizo Game Space, free.

Gary Teter
Senior Software Developer

*Little-known fact: rogues love to share. And runelords make great GMs.

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Liberty's Edge Game Space Beta Tester
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kastarr Eunson wrote:
So that'll mean practically every Paizo client will drop Internet Explorer then? It certainly assists in my decision about figuring out which laptop to purchase for my job.

Honestly, everybody everywhere should drop Internet Explorer. There are lots of other browsers that actually bother to implement the standards.

Also: http://www.somethingofthatilk.com/index.php?id=400
Game Space Beta Tester
Gary Teter wrote:

Quick update: We are a week or so away from beginning the Paizo Game Space external alpha test.

Expected sequence of events:

External alpha test. A very limited test for Paizo employees and a handful of outside testers. This test shouldn't last more than a week or two. Its major purpose is to find and fix obvious flaws before the beta test so we don't get hundreds of duplicate bug reports. Please don't contact us asking for access to this test, all the slots are full.

Public beta test. Open to anybody with a badge for PaizoCon 2012. This test will last for at least several weeks. During this period we will be focused on fixing bugs and smoothing the rough edges on the user interface. We may add some features during this test if they're ready.

During the first part of this public beta, PaizoCon 2012 attendees will only be able to invite other PaizoCon 2012 attendees to join games. Later in the beta, we'll allow PaizoCon 2012 attendees to invite anyone with a paizo.com account to join their games.

Public launch. At this point anybody with a paizo.com account will be able to try out Paizo Game Space.

Thanks for the update, Gary.

Do you have any idea on a timeline for when you'll be able to announce pricing information? Is the initial plan to release purely free stuff or will there be add-ons available right from the get-go? (Or, even better, a subscription - if that makes sense..)
Scarab Sages Game Space Beta Tester

REALLY excited about this!!
Grand Lodge

Great news - sounds like we might be just a few months away! :)
Game Space Beta Tester
3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm not gonna get my hopes up, but maybe you'll make that "end of summer" target goal after all.
Silver Crusade

Really hope to see this soon! I also hope we see a huge deal made over it at GenCon since Paizo is doing a lot more at the Con now.
Game Space Beta Tester

I can't tell you how excited I am about this.

I've been applying for new jobs all over the country and the thought of being able to continue gaming with my friends here in Chicago is just about the only thing I can look forward to when I'm submitting my applications to departments in North Dakota and Fairbanks.

I know you guys are going to do this right and I just can't wait to have my expectations surpassed.

Also, please, please, please post more screen shots when you start running the test games.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I must admit, I am practically chomping at the bit to get a shot at using this, if only to prepare better for the actual games I am running with my group.

Oh, one question: A good number of maps included with APs use a scale bigger than 5 feet per square. It's often 10 feet per square or even 20 feet per square, can the VTT reflect those maps in a way so that we get a proper 5 foot grid for player characters?
Gary Teter wrote:
Public beta test. Open to anybody with a badge for PaizoCon 2012. This test will last for at least several weeks. During this period we will be focused on fixing bugs and smoothing the rough edges on the user interface. We may add some features during this test if they're ready.

Given that this is a public beta test, will there be NDAs involve, or will people be able to post their screen shots and experiences?

Liberty's Edge

@Gary Teter, et. all.

I just thought of a question as I was looking at screen shots in a related forum. Does the VTT track the movement of the token? Perhaps more precisely: as a player (or GM), do I have to map the squares that my token moves through or does it just have the token appear in the new location?

magnuskn, if Paizo's VTT works anything like some other VTTs there should be a way to define either the size of the map itself or the size of the grid or both. This would solve the grid issue.

- Gauss
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That'd be nice. :) Man, am I looking forward to this!
Paizo Employee PostMonster General
6 people marked this as a favorite.

We're getting closer to the external alpha test, probably going to open that up in the next few days once Paizo staff has had a chance to bang on it and make sure any obvious showstopper bugs have been fixed.

We now have a preliminary logo that isn't a dog, and some maps and tokens built-in.

This version doesn't have all the features we plan to include, and it's got a bunch of debugging code in it so it's not as snappy as it will be later, but I'm pretty excited about the progress we're making.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Thank you for the update, Gary.
Game Space Beta Tester

Thanks for the update Gary
Grand Lodge
2 people marked this as a favorite.

The Shackleton boys are anxiously awaiting this so we can regularly game together again :)
Dark Archive Game Space Beta Tester

Awesome!
Lantern Lodge
Gary Teter wrote:

We're getting closer to the external alpha test, probably going to open that up in the next few days once Paizo staff has had a chance to bang on it and make sure any obvious showstopper bugs have been fixed.

We now have a preliminary logo that isn't a dog, and some maps and tokens built-in.

This version doesn't have all the features we plan to include, and it's got a bunch of debugging code in it so it's not as snappy as it will be later, but I'm pretty excited about the progress we're making.

So after getting the masses salivating in anticipation, any updates on GameSpace?

Game Space Beta Tester
Gary Teter wrote:

We're getting closer to the external alpha test, probably going to open that up in the next few days once Paizo staff has had a chance to bang on it and make sure any obvious showstopper bugs have been fixed.

We now have a preliminary logo that isn't a dog, and some maps and tokens built-in.

This version doesn't have all the features we plan to include, and it's got a bunch of debugging code in it so it's not as snappy as it will be later, but I'm pretty excited about the progress we're making.

but why do you have a preliminary logo that is not a dog?????

Webstore Gninja Minion

I got to use it just last night, as a matter of fact. Here's another screenshot of the GM's view, displaying the initiative tracker on the left side, and the chat window (with Tiny dealing a lot of damage to my bad guy).
Silver Crusade

Gamespace looks like it's going to be extremely cool when you release it! Can't wait to try it out!
Paizo Employee Sales Imp
1 person marked this as a favorite.

(Tiny smash)
Webstore Gninja Minion
Cosmo wrote:
(Tiny smash)

Tiny totally smashed my bad guy. *single tear*

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Liz Courts wrote:
Cosmo wrote:
(Tiny smash)
Tiny totally smashed my bad guy. *single tear*

Only after Paza fried him.

Its the sorcerer equivalent of telling Tiny she loosened the jar lid for him :D
Liberty's Edge
Liz Courts wrote:
I got to use it just last night, as a matter of fact. Here's another screenshot of the GM's view, displaying the initiative tracker on the left side, and the chat window (with Tiny dealing a lot of damage to my bad guy).

Why is James Jacobs standing nonchalantly off to the side...I imagine him trying to hide behind a branch being held by his tiny hands...it's kinda creepy.

Silver Crusade Game Space Beta Tester

Tiny Cosmo

Heh...
Gary Teter wrote:


This version doesn't have all the features we plan to include, and it's got a bunch of debugging code in it so it's not as snappy as it will be later, but I'm pretty excited about the progress we're making.

I'm surprised you're giving any externals access to a debug build. Will you have an opt ready for the public beta?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll quote Gary from the 2nd of this month:

Gary Teter wrote:

Quick update: We are a week or so away from beginning the Paizo Game Space external alpha test.

Expected sequence of events:

External alpha test. A very limited test for Paizo employees and a handful of outside testers. This test shouldn't last more than a week or two. Its major purpose is to find and fix obvious flaws before the beta test so we don't get hundreds of duplicate bug reports. Please don't contact us asking for access to this test, all the slots are full.

Public beta test. Open to anybody with a badge for PaizoCon 2012. This test will last for at least several weeks. During this period we will be focused on fixing bugs and smoothing the rough edges on the user interface. We may add some features during this test if they're ready.

During the first part of this public beta, PaizoCon 2012 attendees will only be able to invite other PaizoCon 2012 attendees to join games. Later in the beta, we'll allow PaizoCon 2012 attendees to invite anyone with a paizo.com account to join their games.

Public launch. At this point anybody with a paizo.com account will be able to try out Paizo Game Space.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
I got to use it just last night, as a matter of fact. Here's another screenshot of the GM's view, displaying the initiative tracker on the left side, and the chat window (with Tiny dealing a lot of damage to my bad guy).

Thank you for showing the pic. Question: Is there a light source (s) on the battlefield that is dynamically interacting with the fog of war, or was the interaction done manually?

7 people marked this as a favorite.

~Hold me close now, Tiny Cosmo...~
Webstore Gninja Minion
HangarFlying wrote:
Why is James Jacobs standing nonchalantly off to the side...I imagine him trying to hide behind a branch being held by his tiny hands...it's kinda creepy.

Currently, when you log into the alpha build, it sets your default icon to whatever your board avatar is. James Jacobs invaded the forest, and since the leprechaun bad guy happened to be an illusionist, I utilized it for my own purposes :D

Elorebaen wrote:
Thank you for showing the pic. Question: Is there a light source (s) on the battlefield that is dynamically interacting with the fog of war, or was the interaction done manually?

Currently fog of war set up is handled manually.

Is the fog of war square marquee only, or can you do polygons or (gasp) circles?
HangarFlying wrote:


Why is James Jacobs standing nonchalantly off to the side...I imagine him trying to hide behind a branch being held by his tiny hands...it's kinda creepy.

I was gonna say, "OMG watch out for JJ behind the bushes? How can you NOT SEE HIM?!?!?"

Webstore Gninja Minion
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Is the fog of war square marquee only, or can you do polygons or (gasp) circles?

Currently it's freehand/polygons.

Webstore Gninja Minion
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pendin Fust wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:


Why is James Jacobs standing nonchalantly off to the side...I imagine him trying to hide behind a branch being held by his tiny hands...it's kinda creepy.

I was gonna say, "OMG watch out for JJ behind the bushes? How can you NOT SEE HIM?!?!?"

The number of times that group (particularly the paladin) has rolled poorly on Perception is astounding.

Paizo Employee Paizo Customer Service Algorithm
4 people marked this as a favorite.
Liz Courts wrote:
The number of times that group (particularly the paladin) has rolled poorly on Perception is astounding.

With how completely oblivious my Paladin tends to be I'd gladly trade Detect Evil for Detect Anything.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

@Liz Thank you for the head's up! Glad to see fog of war is going to make it into initial release.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Can I say once again that I can't wait to see what you guys have cooked up? :)

I hope the support for importing AP map files ( or maybe getting a discount for maps from APs I already own ) will be extensive. And monster tokens. And whatever other stuff you guys come up with.
magnuskn wrote:

I'll quote Gary from the 2nd of this month:

Gary Teter wrote:

Quick update: We are a week or so away from beginning the Paizo Game Space external alpha test.

Expected sequence of events:

External alpha test. A very limited test for Paizo employees and a handful of outside testers. This test shouldn't last more than a week or two. Its major purpose is to find and fix obvious flaws before the beta test so we don't get hundreds of duplicate bug reports. Please don't contact us asking for access to this test, all the slots are full.

Public beta test. Open to anybody with a badge for PaizoCon 2012. This test will last for at least several weeks. During this period we will be focused on fixing bugs and smoothing the rough edges on the user interface. We may add some features during this test if they're ready.

During the first part of this public beta, PaizoCon 2012 attendees will only be able to invite other PaizoCon 2012 attendees to join games. Later in the beta, we'll allow PaizoCon 2012 attendees to invite anyone with a paizo.com account to join their games.

Public launch. At this point anybody with a paizo.com account will be able to try out Paizo Game Space.

I saw that the first time. I don't know if it was meant to be a response to my question, but it wasn't what I was asking.

I was asking if they'd switch to an "opt" (optimized) build for the public beta, as opposed to the debug build that Gary mentioned in a different post.
Paizo Employee PostMonster General
9 people marked this as a favorite.

Status update time!

Last time I posted, we were just beginning the external alpha test. That test went very well—we learned what we needed to know in just a couple days, so we closed it back up again.

What did we learn? We learned that we have a few bugs to fix, most of them trivial, not really showstoppers. But that's not the main thing we learned.

Testers gave pretty similar feedback: They like playing via Paizo Game Space. Not having to install any software to get it running is nice, and the maps and tokens look pretty good. Plus other good things to say about it. But they consistently identified four or five things that annoyed or confused them, especially when first getting started.

A virtual tabletop is more than just a list of features you can check off in a comparison chart. By that standard Paizo Game Space is actually not that great right now since it lacks a lot of the features sported by basically every other VTT out there. That's OK, that's part of the "we're not going to wait forever to release it because it needs to be perfect" approach we're taking with this project. We can add those features later.

What you really can't add later is first impressions. Any given software application is like 95% features and 5% polish, except that other 5% is actually a whole other 95%. And it turns out, that last little bit is super incredibly important.

We don't want people to look at it and go, "Oh look it's another VTT, and I can't figure out how to use this one, either." We want people to say, "Oh, I get it! Let's play." So that's what we're working on now.

I wanna play!!! Let's Play! :)
Game Space Beta Tester
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gary Teter wrote:
We don't want people to look at it and go, "Oh look it's another VTT, and I can't figure out how to use this one, either."

Speaking as a computer-phobe, that's great to hear. Software with too many visible options is software I dont use. Personally, I much prefer it when all the bells and whistles are accessible, but not terribly visible (the clever people can find them anyhow, but the slower amongst us can continue playing in blissful ignorance of what we're not using - once there are lots of options presented, I have no instinct as to which are the ones I need to understand and which are pretty things I can ignore).

Liberty's Edge

I think this approach is spot on.
Grand Lodge

Thanks for the update, Gary. It is simultaneously slightly disappointing (I'm so ready to use this!) and heartening (I love that Paizo cares more about getting something right than getting it out there ASAP).
Game Space Beta Tester
Doug Maynard wrote:
Thanks for the update, Gary. It is simultaneously slightly disappointing (I'm so ready to use this!) and heartening (I love that Paizo cares more about getting something right than getting it out there ASAP).

Agreed,we all know about unfinished products like;

Giants Citizen Kabuto,
Duke Nukem Forever,
WarZ (Not to be confused with DayZ)
and many more
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
Gary Teter wrote:
We don't want people to look at it and go, "Oh look it's another VTT, and I can't figure out how to use this one, either."
Speaking as a computer-phobe, that's great to hear. Software with too many visible options is software I dont use. Personally, I much prefer it when all the bells and whistles are accessible, but not terribly visible (the clever people can find them anyhow, but the slower amongst us can continue playing in blissful ignorance of what we're not using - once there are lots of options presented, I have no instinct as to which are the ones I need to understand and which are pretty things I can ignore).

I concur. This approach is the right way to go, because experienced VTT users will be able to use it no matter what, but there won't be a lot of the features that experienced users want. Inexperienced VTT users won't be interested in advanced use, and will not be able to use the VTT unless it is seriously user-friendly. Good call.

Scarab Sages Game Space Beta Tester

Good call Gary. We can wait for bells and whistles, but such a wondrous thing deserves all the Paizo "love at first sight" you can squeeze in. Go for it!
Game Space Beta Tester

Oh so psyched for this.
Liberty's Edge
Azure_Zero wrote:
Doug Maynard wrote:
Thanks for the update, Gary. It is simultaneously slightly disappointing (I'm so ready to use this!) and heartening (I love that Paizo cares more about getting something right than getting it out there ASAP).

Agreed,we all know about unfinished products like;

Giants Citizen Kabuto,
Duke Nukem Forever,
WarZ (Not to be confused with DayZ)
and many more

Don't forget Aliens: Colonial Marines.

(Which makes two Gearbox products on the unfinished list)
Gary Teter wrote:

A virtual tabletop is more than just a list of features you can check off in a comparison chart.

+1; and thank you for saying so. You guys could teach video game studios a thing or two. Feature parity is overrated; polish and utility is critical.

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