Advanced Race Guide Preview: Letting the Cat out of the Bag

Sadly... tengu are pretty much a bit player as well, though they have thus far gotten more love than the cat folk with tengu love in some of the PFS scenarios and in Serpents Skull.

I’d like to give far more love to a hot Tengu hen with the glossiest plumage around. *whistling* [without lips!]

I'd eat some scrambled egg now... Or broth made on some wings. Uh, what were you saying, Kuro Poe?

This must be why that one Mwangi Witchdoctor from PFS kept wanting to eat me as well. I can't help my delicious aroma and tender thighs.

But on this note: The Dire Waveryn!
Let the Catboobs speculation continue.

Oh, ok you're really a female. LOL! How cynical I've become, I don't take names on the internet at face value anymore!

I would just like to point out that her legs are NOT double jointed as people are saying. I don't know the fancy terms for it or anything, but the way cats walk, it's more like they're walking on their toes. That long lower part of their leg is similar to our feet.

I BELIEVE. I'm not 100% sure. I do know that's how horses and other similarly-legged creatures are.

I feel like Paizo really dropped the ball on the Catfolk art/design.

There's a common trend in "monstrous" races, whether in TTRPGs, video games, or whatever, to have them basically be humans with an animal's head. Especially worse is when the males of the species are actually monstrous while the females are basically like this image. Now, I'm kind of used to this, but Guild Wars' Charr race has really set the bar for cat races very high, and this catfolk image (plus the one in B3) really don't even come close to comparing to the sophistication of the Charrs.

First, take a look at the Charr. Just have a look at some of the images. At first, you might not be able to see the difference between male and female Charr... but after some time I feel like it's easy to notice the difference. And it's not just because the males are big and scary and the females are lithe and sexy.

To begin with, this catfolk is far too skinny. She's based on a snow leopard, a species I would expect to have SOME muscle on the bones. The B3 catfolk gets a pass in this regard as she has a jaguar-esque look, so the lithe physique works... but I am strongly opposed to the idea that all catfolk are like this. Or, more correctly, all *female* catfolk look like this. I suspect that if there's a big and muscular catfolk, they're going to be a tiger or a lion, and they're most certainly going to be male. There's also the issue of the breasts. I really dislike the look of them here and on the B3 image, although I realise it's done 100% for the sex appeal (we all know sexy catgirls are popular after all). Why does she have such large breasts when she's a tiny and skinny cat?

One of the writers/creative designers of Guild Wars talked about the lack of breasts (and general "femininity") on the Charr, which you can see here. The key points you can take out of it is that they considered the Charr's...

...I don't think the catfolk girl has big boobs. Those are A's. B's tops.

Wow, the community is having kittens about the art on this one! Don't let this become a catastrophe over something so small. You can't just have imewtable opinions on what a catfolk is.

How much of a catfolk is "cat", and how much is "folk"? We could infur that any combination is valid, particularly for this boob discussion. The way I see it, there are three choices in the full purrview:
Two boobs
Eight boobs
or the mean average of five boobs. This will be a genetic nightmare when you figure out where the odd boob goes on the milk line.

The game can contain whatever tickles your Fancy Feast. So come on everybody, let's not litter the forums with something that can just be an opinion, and take a Fresh Step toward better understanding.

Also... yes I had to, and nobody could EVER have stopped me!

=^.^=

Ross Byers can stop you retroactively. Trust me, I know. He can never stop my love, though.

You know, it would be nice if people would stop complaining once in a blue moon. In real life I am fat. I don't complain whenever there is a picture of a fat man that looks very sloven.

I like this picture. I think the size of the boobs are fine (They are barely even there.). I like the legs. I like the athleticism. It's good. For the love of Aroden... stop nitpicking. It's not like this fantasy game is supposed to be realistic. That is how just her picture is, just as nearly every fat man portrayed is sloven and/or a glutton.

Pretty sad that this is my first ever post on here, and the only reason I did is because I come here to see previews, not to be forced to read people complaining about this or that. (Yes, I realize that I am complaining about the complaining, but I wouldn't be if it didn't start in the first place.)

Hel, I don't mind when people complain about things that actually need to be complained about. But, this is complaining about an aesthetic choice, one that is no big deal.

Removed some posts. Please post civilly, thanks!

I didn't think mine was too bad, but fair enough.

I must be playing the game wrong. For the past 20 years, I can count the number of boobie references in the games I've been a part of on one hand, and everyone knows that more than a handful is a waste.

But here we are, 3 pages in and the gazonga debate continues. SMH.

I wonder if any owl-people "hooter" discussions will occur.

Ok what the heck happend the catfolk seem to have gone from the mostly humanoid look in the Bestiary to Khajit? Also oh god not the multijointed (No way in hell I am ever wearing boots) feet

I'm still houseruling them to look either like the catfolk in the Beastiary, or as anime-style catgirls. The latter just might be Human-Catfolk hybrids. Anyway, the talents and spell are cool at first glance, but I'm hoping for some Ranger stuff for my friend's chara.

Just for reference, the technical term for how the above catfolk is walking is "digitigrade." This is as opposed to humans, who are plantigrade walkers.

I kind of prefer the digitigrade look as it's a bit more distinct, but from a practical standpoint it makes sharing footwear between species fairly difficult.

I have a question, now, but what is with all the fur-hate on the messageboards here? There are 11 avatars right now that are furs (or scalies) to one degree or another on this one thread? And that is not counting the Dragons.

The latter just might be Human-Catfolk hybrids.

Hybrids UNITE!

As long as they're not the Civic Hybrids ;-)

I hope they get a ranger archtytpe that is spellless to make up for there -2wis.

Stupid sexy B3-catfolk...

It's like I'm wearin' nothin' at all...

...nothin' at all...

...nothin' at all...

B3 art, ARG art, whatever. I'm still making one 8 feet tall and calling it a Kil'rathi

Named Hobbes

(EDIT) oh yeah, and while I'm able to access the edit link, may I put my vote down for the Vanara as the next preview? I want to see some cool monkey stuff. Just no alternate racial traits that allow the throwing of...well you know...

I hope they get a ranger archtytpe that is spellless to make up for there -2wis.

If they did they'd probably just replace it with another class feature that works off of wisdom, like the Trapper Ranger from UM or the Skirmisher from APG

Also, I'm not happy with the magic item suggesting it only works for Catfolk. Sure, have "creator is a Catfolk" as a requirement like the Elvenkind stuff does but having it specific that it works only for a specific race is highly bothersome. It is unnecessarily adding back in the sort of stupid racism that the core rulebook had so nicely removed from such things as Arcane Archer.

online RPG fanbases are infested with degenerates.

Yeah, I know... Those damn cat-haters are spreading everywhere.

I know one thing: There is right and there is wrong. There is no excuse- NO excuse for adult men to be frolicking about as kitty cat people.

You are stressing that there is no excuse for men to be playing catfolk... So you think that women can frolick about as kitty cat people?

Also, I'm not happy with the magic item suggesting it only works for Catfolk. Sure, have "creator is a Catfolk" as a requirement like the Elvenkind stuff does but having it specific that it works only for a specific race is highly bothersome. It is unnecessarily adding back in the sort of stupid racism that the core rulebook had so nicely removed from such things as Arcane Archer.

+1 to this.

Mighty Squash wrote:

Also, I'm not happy with the magic item suggesting it only works for Catfolk. Sure, have "creator is a Catfolk" as a requirement like the Elvenkind stuff does but having it specific that it works only for a specific race is highly bothersome. It is unnecessarily adding back in the sort of stupid racism that the core rulebook had so nicely removed from such things as Arcane Archer.

+1 to this.

Oh, I don't know racially biased items have their place. I was kinda sad to see the racial requirement go away from the Arcane Archer. But I am not the only player out there so, c'est la vie. But seriously, what's wrong with a nifty item that only works for a member of a particular race, there are already items that only can be fully used by members of one particular class, how is a racial-chauvinism in a creator any different than a class-superiority in a creator? It strikes me as normal that a Catfolk Wizard would, seeing the obvious superiority of his own race, make toys that only members of that race could use.

I mean, have you ever actually been owned by a cat?

Kevin Mack wrote:

Ok what the heck happend the catfolk seem to have gone from the mostly humanoid look in the Bestiary to Khajit? Also oh god not the multijointed (No way in hell I am ever wearing boots) feet

I'm still houseruling them to look either like the catfolk in the Beastiary, or as anime-style catgirls. The latter just might be Human-Catfolk hybrids. Anyway, the talents and spell are cool at first glance, but I'm hoping for some Ranger stuff for my friend's chara.

You don't have to houserule. It's not a rule how a monster or race looks like.

I removed a couple of messages that were either insulting and not about the subject at hand or that commented on the insulting or tangential posts.

If you don't like catfolk, fine. Talk about that, and the reasons. Don't insult people who do. In fact, just don't insult people and general, and you will have less posts remove. I guarantee it.

Thanks to everyone who is keeping arguments civil and interesting--some good reads overall.

Ugh.

You can already take 10 on Appraise. Hate.

I dislike race-only feats and talents... I had thought Pathfinder was moving away from racial pre-reqs...

That said, I DO like catfolk. I dont think of anime catgirls, though, but the Kilrathi from my old school Wing Commander days.

Ugh.

You can already take 10 on Appraise. Hate.

Not when distracted or in combat.

I dislike race-only feats and talents... I had thought Pathfinder was moving away from racial pre-reqs...

Not sure why you'd think that'd be the case for a book called Advanced Race Guide which is meant to give unique options for races.

Ugh.

You can already take 10 on Appraise. Hate.

Well, the ability says you can always take 10, meaning even while in combat/distracted/etc.

You know, in case the dragon says he'll keep chewing on Kyra until you guess the value of his hoard.

Or something.

Or if you are being chased by the guards since you weren't quite as good a cat-burglar as you thought you were and you still want to get something out of the deal before you leap from the window.

Varthanna wrote:

Ugh.

You can already take 10 on Appraise. Hate.

Well, the ability says you can always take 10, meaning even while in combat/distracted/etc.

You know, in case the dragon says he'll keep chewing on Kyra until you guess the value of his hoard.

Or something.

This made me 'lol' at work.

But seriously, I can't think of a reason you'd need to appraise while in danger or distracted. Unless you're one of those roguish types who uses the chaos of combat to pinch valuables while everyone else fights.

Maybe a strange character quirk is that you use the steal combat maneuver a lot and appraise what you take on the spot?

Yeah... very niche.

EDIT: Oooh, and in comes Cheapy-ninja. Good answer, too.

As a gamemaster, I'm looking to this book to help inspire more interesting villains. In keeping with game traditions, my games are humanocentric, with allowance for 1-2 variances amongst players. I can appreciate that some folks like to play differently, with 1/2 kobold-dragon characters... but mostly I'm hoping this book ports well into Hero Lab, for quick design and use of NPCs with very interesting racial abilities and traits.

In any case, I'm looking on my doorstep daily for this one---its gonna be good!

Exception: I also prefer the "catfolk" as pictured in the Bestiary. I'll ascribe this picture (shown above) as a point on a spectrum of punnet square variants that cat folk might look like on some worlds, but use the more human-looking style for my games. As PAIZO often says, "It's Your World" so use the style that right for you when you're the GM.

Is steal breath only for catfolk? Cause that is an awsome spell...

1 round is not a very good duration, even hold person is several rounds with round by round saves. This should be something like a set 3 rounds, or 1 round per 2 caster levels. A single round of silence and 2d6 damage seems a little underpowered for a 2nd level spell.

When I was a kid I was really horrified by Stephen King's Cat's Eye story. To this day, I send the cat's downstairs at night, to prevent waking up with them on my chest and stealing my breath.

Awesome add to the race, Paizo!