Magus Preview

Sexy !

Thanks Jason !

Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.

So, does this mean I can attack with my weapon as normal with spell combat, then cast my spellstrike spell and attack with my weapon with the free melee weapon attack?

Or do the opposite and with a spell like chill touch that gets multiple touches, cast spellstrike, use free attack, then attack as normal and get the chill touch twice in that round (or more for higher BAB)? Seems like it to me...

Spellblade. Arcane Soulknife! Sexy!

More tease, I want this book ...

So, does this mean I can attack with my weapon as normal with spell combat, then cast my spellstrike spell and attack with my weapon with the free melee weapon attack?

Or do the opposite and with a spell like chill touch that gets multiple touches, cast spellstrike, use free attack, then attack as normal and get the chill touch twice in that round (or more for higher BAB)? Seems like it to me...

Both of those situations are now possible, if I am understanding your question.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Bladebound definitely catches my eye..

Make that two eyes the Bladebound archetype has caught. On the other hand, there is also the fact that I am very fond of the base Magus class as well. One wonders what the Bladebound will be giving up...

...this book is not coming out soon enough... :-)

Mmmm... Hexcrafter... Evil Eyes for everybody :-)

...maybe...

Looks awesome, especially those archtypes sound cool. I'll play either magus or bard in Carrion Crown and after reading this I really can't choose..

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:

So, does this mean I can attack with my weapon as normal with spell combat, then cast my spellstrike spell and attack with my weapon with the free melee weapon attack?

Or do the opposite and with a spell like chill touch that gets multiple touches, cast spellstrike, use free attack, then attack as normal and get the chill touch twice in that round (or more for higher BAB)? Seems like it to me...

Both of those situations are now possible, if I am understanding your question.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

You might want to check that answer carefully. Because if you're saying yes to his question as he wrote it, then it may look like you're saying that a person can do a weapon attack, cast a spell with spell combat and do a spellstrike with another spell as a second weapon attack, all in the same round.

I suspect your intended answer would be that a magus can do a weapon attack and cast a touch spell as part of spell combat with the "off hand" as it were, or cast that touch spell that would be delivered with the weapon attack portion of spell combat. Either way a total of one weapon attack and one spell effect per round as opposed to two of each.

Basically the magus would be trading a lesser chance to hit with the spell (attack vs armor as opposed to touch attack) for a greater chance to crit which would ride on the weapon type and any feats effects that enhance crit.

I like what I'm seeing. I need to save up for the book now.

I have a player who will LOVE the new spellstrike mechanics. He loves his shocking grasps, and getting an extra attack will make him very happy.

This book can't come out fast enough!

Staff Magus! Woo! I've always wanted to play a mage-type that was really good with a quarterstaff. Just goes hand-in-hand with the image of the wizened old man with his walking stick who's much more than he appears.

Looking good!

I'd be very interested in comparing the Staff Magus to the Battlestave PrC from Arcanis.

I like what I'm seeing. I need to save up for the book now.

I recently sold a bunch of stuff to my local store and got $300 in store credit. I have both of the new books payed for already :D I can't wait!

Bladebound definitely catches my eye..

Yes. And makes me wanna bring my Blue Oyster Cult music. :-D

The Bladebound and Hexcrafter magus archetypes sound very intriguing indeed. I liked the Hexblade from 3.5's "Complete Warrior", mainly as a class for a villain, and the Bladebound, well... who doesn't see a bit of Elric in Seltyiel?

I do have a question regarding the bladebound archetype: does that sword there at your side act the way it should?

Waiting for the email that says it is on it way.

Staff Magus! Woo! I've always wanted to play a mage-type that was really good with a quarterstaff. Just goes hand-in-hand with the image of the wizened old man with his walking stick who's much more than he appears.

Like a certain 800 year old little green guy with pointy ears ...

Phillip0614 wrote:

Staff Magus! Woo! I've always wanted to play a mage-type that was really good with a quarterstaff. Just goes hand-in-hand with the image of the wizened old man with his walking stick who's much more than he appears.

Like a certain 800 year old little green guy with pointy ears ...

900 sir

Spellstrike's new mechanics are sexy, as is spell recall.

All of the archetypes make me smile.

Bladebound: Wondering why you're calling it a "black blade." But I can't wait to taste the flavor and find out.

Hexcrafter: WOOO! I adored the hexblade in 3.5, especially as a villain class, and seeing it revamped makes thing so much fun. I've got an NPC in a campaign I'm running that is just begging for this archetype.

Spellblade: So that's how you're working in two-weapon casting. "Of course he can use spell-combat with his off-hand, he's not really gripping a weapon! It's made of force!" Soulknife goodness working its way into the magus. I like it.

Staff Magus: This is just...fun. I'm imagining the ability to cast spells from staves via spell combat and spellstrike, also maybe sacrificing pool points to restore charges to a staff. Fun.

Overall, I am...excruciatingly excited to see this book (Yes. So excited that it's torture).

-The Beast

I'd be very annoyed if the bladebound needs to be evil or something. I've been looking for a good bladesinger type, and this could be it.

Item Familiar feat in 3.5 was cool.

Spellblade. Arcane Soulknife! Sexy!

I was thinking "just add some acrobatics, and you have a dual-wielding Jedi..."

And then someone made a yoda joke for the Staff Magus and I didn't feel so smart anymore...

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

Spellstrike's new mechanics are sexy, as is spell recall.

All of the archetypes make me smile.

Bladebound: Wondering why you're calling it a "black blade." But I can't wait to taste the flavor and find out.

-The Beast

As Eric Hinkle said the Black Blade is probably a reference to The Eternal Champion Elric and the original Black Blade Stormbringer.

--Ari-Vrock, Lord of the Seven Larks

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

ok how im seeing it is as such:

spellstrike by itself - instead of casting shocking grasp and getting a free touch attack, you are casting shocking grasp on your sword and getting a free melee attack instead of the touch. if you use this as a standard action, thats your attack for the round.

spellstrike with spell combat - you get your full attack + a spell, but rather than the spell just being the spell + free touch attack, its rather you full attack + a free melee attack with a weapon containing the spell.

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

Fixed emphasis for you. Does that help you any?

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

If you use spell combat with the spell strike in the same round, then it looks like you would be getting a second attack with the weapon. One attack for casting the touch spell and using the blade instead of a touch attack. And, one attack that'd you'd normally get because you're using spell combat ability (this will increase normally with iterative attacks later). Both attacks would be at the -2 from spell combat due to casting a spell during the full attack.

At least this is how I'm reading the blog and Jason's reiteration.

ok how im seeing it is as such:

spellstrike by itself - instead of casting shocking grasp and getting a free touch attack, you are casting shocking grasp on your sword and getting a free melee attack instead of the touch. if you use this as a standard action, thats your attack for the round.

spellstrike with spell combat - you get your full attack + a spell, but rather than the spell just being the spell + free touch attack, its rather you full attack + a free melee attack with a weapon containing the spell.

Yeah, that's how I see it, but . . .

Billzabub wrote:

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

Fixed emphasis for you. Does that help you any?

Nope. In the above example, I don't see what's "free" about the attack in the first instance with Spellstrike by itself. Your attack is your attack, is just happens to have a spell on top. With Spell Combat added in, it sounds like you get a second "free attack" and that makes more sense to me - a second attack, free, if you will.

Fnipernackle wrote:

ok how im seeing it is as such:

spellstrike by itself - instead of casting shocking grasp and getting a free touch attack, you are casting shocking grasp on your sword and getting a free melee attack instead of the touch. if you use this as a standard action, thats your attack for the round.

spellstrike with spell combat - you get your full attack + a spell, but rather than the spell just being the spell + free touch attack, its rather you full attack + a free melee attack with a weapon containing the spell.

Yeah, that's how I see it, but . . .

LoreKeeper wrote:

Billzabub wrote:

I may be in the minority, but I do find a "magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon" to be confusing. What does it mean, free? Isn't that his normal attack? It's not that he's getting a second attack with the weapon, correct?

Fixed emphasis for you. Does that help you any?

Nope. In the above example, I don't see what's "free" about the attack in the first instance with Spellstrike by itself. Your attack is your attack, is just happens to have a spell on top. With Spell Combat added in, it sounds like you get a second "free attack" and that makes more sense to me - a second attack, free, if you will.

Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.

as part of casting the spell is what you need to look at. you cast as a standard, you can deliver it through your weapon as a free attack replacing your free touch attack.

as part of spell combat, you are essentially attack and casting a spell. therefore you attack (the attack half) and then cast the spell, delivering it through your free melle attack rather than your free touch attack (the cast a spell half).

Ah. So it's that it's free in the sense of a free action - it doesn't count against your standard/move action allotment? So you can cast the spell (standard action) and attack (normally another standard action, but here, free) and still move (move action)? Is that it?[/b]

Ah. So it's that it's free in the sense of a free action - it doesn't count against your standard/move action allotment? So you can cast the spell (standard action) and attack (normally another standard action, but here, free) and still move (move action)? Is that it?[/b]

when utilizing spellstrike by itself yes.

with spell combat its the same way (as your example - the move action) + your regular full attacks from your BAB.

Ah. So it's that it's free in the sense of a free action - it doesn't count against your standard/move action allotment? So you can cast the spell (standard action) and attack (normally another standard action, but here, free) and still move (move action)? Is that it?[/b]

This, yep.

Thanks, all. That makes sense now.

*sad sigh* I was hoping for a Monk/Magus blend.. *ponders* Ah, well. Staff Magus was my second choice, anyways. =D

Doesn't mean I'm not getting the book though. "Bladebound" had me thinking of the Berserker in Dungeon Fighter Online.

*throws marshmallows at anyone who saw the Spellblade Magus and made a lightsaber noise*

Hm. The Hexcrafter makes me think of the Hexblade from 3.5. "Using the powers of a witch, this magus can use hexes and can curse his enemies." Makes me hope that this archtype doesnt make the Witch useless or pointless to play (at least in comparison to the Hexcrafter).

Hexcrafter just makes me think of a Witch Artificer.

I´m pretty sure Witch will function just fine alongside Hexcrafters...
Witches are still Full Casters after all, and PRESUMABLY Hexcrafters will have lower effective level for Hex DCs.

Honestly, that is really my problem with the Witch class, as much as I love it, it´s just TOO good.
(1/2 level + Stat) DC is fine for general characters or monsters using 2ndary stats, but Witches already have Full Casting so having Hexes whose DCs all essentially match their TOP Spell Level (or more), using the SAME stat as their Spells do, just seems a bit... unbalancing.

Obviously, they have smaller spell selection than Wizards, the nastiest DC Hexes don´t work on all targets, etc, but it doesn´t feel balanced just like 1st Printing Paladins´ 2x Smite on ALL attacks including Ranged vs. BIG EVIL was un-balanced didn´t feel balanced. Their Enchantment-type Hex abilities at max DC also let them focus the most on broader-utility actual spells, which again reduces the distadvantage of their ´specialty´. I find it odd that Paizo did this with Witches while simultaneously writing up the Guided Weapon Enhancement which they made NOT PFS-legal - that lets a Monk FULLY concentrate on 1 stat ala Full Casters, maxing Stunning Fist DC, while getting the benefit for AC and attack/dmg. Given that there seemed to be a range of opinions on which stat Witches should use as a Casting Stat, it was wierd that a different stat wasn´t used for Hex DCs (CHA?), which would assuage the issue.

Hm. The Hexcrafter makes me think of the Hexblade from 3.5. "Using the powers of a witch, this magus can use hexes and can curse his enemies." Makes me hope that this archtype doesnt make the Witch useless or pointless to play (at least in comparison to the Hexcrafter).

Frankly I'm not that impressed with the hexes in the first place; unless I'm misunderstanding something most of them are 1/day (per target) which is rather limiting.

I'm going to have to go back and reexamine my cyclopes witch and see if I can make it a little more viable.

*sad sigh* I was hoping for a Monk/Magus blend, but I'll just have to make do, I guess.. Has anyone seen any prospects on this board that I may have missed? I don't recall seeing any concrete, just swaps.

Doesn't mean I'm not getting the book though. "Bladebound" had me thinking of the Berserker in Dungeon Fighter Online.

*throws marshmallows at anyone who saw the Spellsword Magus and made a lightsaber noise*

Don't forget, this is a list of archetypes for "ULTIMATE MAGIC". As such it focuses on classes that are spellcasters to one degree or another or at least have something somewhat "magical" about them. That is why we have been told we won't see anything for fighters, barbarians, and cavaliers. We even see that there is a monk, paladin, and ranger archetype in this book (I have no doubts that they get magical abilities of some sort considering the book they are in). One of the developers has already stated in another thread that the four archetypes revealed in the Carrion Crown Player's Guide were only the magus archetypes he could recall at the time of writing that portion of that guide and alluded that there were more. (I think it was in the magus archetype thread, but I can't remember exactly where at the moment. However, I think it was Wes that said this.)

Remember that Ultimate Combat is still on the way and since that book focuses on all things martial, including classes that participate in melee such as the magus. I suspect we will see more magus archetypes in Ultimate Combat and that they will be archetypes that focus on granting more non-magical abilities.

Also noteable: Dropped from the 3rd Playtest Spellstrike language: "If used with spell combat, this does not grant an additional attack."

*ow!* Stop throwing marshmallows at me Me'Mori! I know it's just after Easter and ya got a ton of peeps to abuse, but seriously! *ow!* Okay I'll stop making sound effects. :(

Actually now all I hear is Kazuma Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho screaming "SPIRIT SWORD!" And "SWORD! GET LONGER!"

Please tell me there is a reach extension option for the Spellblade :p

*ow!* Stop throwing marshmallows at me Me'Mori! I know it's just after Easter and ya got a ton of peeps to abuse, but seriously! *ow!* Okay I'll stop making sound effects. :(

Actually now all I hear is Kazuma Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho screaming "SPIRIT SWORD!" And "SWORD! GET LONGER!"

Please tell me there is a reach extension option for the Spellblade :p

So long as he doesn't it turn it into the SPIRIT FLYSWATTER, I am totally ok with the Kuwabara imagery here.

I'd be very annoyed if the bladebound needs to be evil or something. I've been looking for a good bladesinger type, and this could be it.

Paizo hasn't done an archetype yet that required a certain aligment (not counting the antipaladin, which is an alternate class). I don't know why they'd start now.

Is anyone else hoping that the Magus gets full BAB for Spell Combat? (Like Monk FoB)

Also noteable: Dropped from the 3rd Playtest Spellstrike language: "If used with spell combat, this does not grant an additional attack."

Yep - that's an interesting change. It makes it even more like dual-wielding, except you're kind of dual-wielding the same weapon. :)

I think I like that Pool Spell turned into, essentially, a pearl of power, but I will miss the ability to, as needed, pull a True Strike out of the aether (at least until 11th-level). I wonder what revision they put in for the ability to spontaneously cast a non-Magus-list Sor/Wiz spell that you got as the capstone for that ability line.

Spellstrike: This may be a great and fun ability, but I can't tell. I just don't understand what this paragraph is saying.

What's with all the mash-up names for the archetypes? I thought that was a Paizo no-no? Or is that just for base classes? Bladebound, Hexcrafter, Spellblade, Spellshoot, Burnfire!! (ok I made those last two up).

This whole excerpt seems very "gamey" to me. I just don't see the non-game inspiration behind any of this stuff. To each his own though, have fun!

What's with all the mash-up names for the archetypes? I thought that was a Paizo no-no? Or is that just for base classes? Bladebound, Hexcrafter, Spellblade, Spellshoot, Burnfire!! (ok I made those last two up).

This is a good point. I think the closest thing to a precedent are some of the Sorcerer Bloodlines in the APG, but those aren't archtypes.

Hey Paizo Staff! Can we get an explanation?

Is anyone else hoping that the Magus gets full BAB for Spell Combat? (Like Monk FoB)

That'd be nice, but I don't see it happening.

Spellstrike: This may be a great and fun ability, but I can't tell. I just don't understand what this paragraph is saying.

What don't you understand?

Normal Wizard: Cast Shocking Grasp as a standard action, make a melee touch attack in the same round to deliver it as a free action. You've got a 20/x2 crit range on the touch attack.

Longsword Magus: Cast Shocking Grasp as a standard action, make a melee attack with your longsword in the same round to deliver it as a free action. You've got a 19/x2 crit range on the attack, and both the weapon and the spell crit.

Rapier Magus: Cast Shocking Grasp as a standard action, make a melee attack with your rapier in the same round to deliver it as a free action. You've got an 18/x2 crit range on the attack, and both the weapon and the spell crit.

------

Or, as a full-round action:

Rapier Magus: Take the Spell Combat action, and make your rapier attack at a -2 penalty. Then, cast Shocking Grasp, and make a melee attack with your rapier at a -2 penalty to deliver it as a free action. You've got an 18/x2 crit range on the attack, and both the weapon and the spell crit.

Etc.

Capisce?