Introducing the Stolen Fate Player’s Guide

Fantastic players guide. Very detailed, cool backgrounds, AWESOME player options. The cards are very exciting.

Also, thank you to Paizo for putting in recommended item purchase guidelines! They were sorely missed in Ruby Phoenix, and I'm glad they seem to be a fixture of higher level AP guides now.

It feels like this is the AP that should have followed Abomination Vaults. Right level range, also a 3-book AP, on Kortos, harrow deck ties easily to Wrin... I guess I know what my players are doing next.

ICYMI, we are making a new, gorgeous Pathfinder Harrow Deck!

The Harrower archetype is delightful. Some of the most fun design I’ve yet seen in PF2.

Someday we’ll see Razatlani as a major recommended language…

The archetype and sorcerer bloodline look fun! Any chance they can become available in PFS?

I gotta have more harrow deck options. Harrow Handbook was my favorite Player Companion.

The Harrow is an aspect of the game/setting I've been really interested in lately, so I'm glad to see this AP leaning so hard into it! (Might even pick up the physical deck)
An archetype AND a new Sorcerer bloodline in just the Player's Guide? Sign me up!

The archetype and sorcerer bloodline look fun! Any chance they can become available in PFS?

I gotta have more harrow deck options. Harrow Handbook was my favorite Player Companion.

Organized Play sanctioning is targeted for Release Day as our standard procedure.

You are forgetting about Harrow Lore... can that be used in place of Fortune-Telling Lore?

Also... If harrow omen is on hammer, can it's spell attack counted as strike?
(So full caster without weapon can use it)

LOVE everything about this so far, from the concept to the new additions! Been hankering to have first-party support for Harrowers, so REALLY pleased to see three different routes for that ala the Archetype, Bloodline, and Ritual!

ONE thing that I noticed, and if anyone could help me:
On page 14, the "Vengeful Spirit Deck" feat mentions it requires a basic save against the Harrower's Class DC to resist the damage, but it doesn't actually mention if this is a Fortitude, Reflex, or Will save. My guess would be Reflex, since you're lobbing an enchanted card at the target, but since Poison may instead go against Fortitude and Mental may go against Will, clarification would help. As it is, only three of the six cards have a given saving throw associated with them so we can't really use that for the other three.

I did look under the "Benevolent Spirit Deck" feat on the same page to see if it makes any mention of saves (since Vengeful Spirit Deck references this feat for damage types), but there was no mention there either.

Is my brain just not processing a line somewhere in these writeups? >.>

You are forgetting about Harrow Lore... can that be used in place of Fortune-Telling Lore?

Also... If harrow omen is on hammer, can it's spell attack counted as strike?
(So full caster without weapon can use it)

When it comes to suggesting lore choices for Adventure Paths in a Player's Guide, I limit my words to only speak about the Lore categories listed on page 248 of the Core Rulebook, because going beyond that already large list makes it increasingly unwieldy and impossible to cover.

By limiting to this list of lores, we can give enough advice that a GM can look at that list and make educated guesses about additional Lores they might want to feature in their game.

In this case, "Harrow Lore" would be a pretty good duplcate name for Fortune-Telling Lore–in the adventure path itself, we rely on Fortune-Telling Lore whenever there's a chance for the PCs to learn more about harrow-related stuff.

As for the later question—that's a great house-rule to pitch to your GM, or if you're the GM, a great house-rule to try out in your game, but as designed, the suits of the harrow itself don't really have that sort of impact on spellcasting.

LOVE everything about this so far, from the concept to the new additions! Been hankering to have first-party support for Harrowers, so REALLY pleased to see three different routes for that ala the Archetype, Bloodline, and Ritual!

ONE thing that I noticed, and if anyone could help me:
On page 14, the "Vengeful Spirit Deck" feat mentions it requires a basic save against the Harrower's Class DC to resist the damage, but it doesn't actually mention if this is a Fortitude, Reflex, or Will save. My guess would be Reflex, since you're lobbing an enchanted card at the target, but since Poison may instead go against Fortitude and Mental may go against Will, clarification would help. As it is, only three of the six cards have a given saving throw associated with them so we can't really use that for the other three.

I did look under the "Benevolent Spirit Deck" feat on the same page to see if it makes any mention of saves (since Vengeful Spirit Deck references this feat for damage types), but there was no mention there either.

Is my brain just not processing a line somewhere in these writeups? >.>

The Vengeful Spirit Deck should be a Reflex save. Sorry about that omission.

Is it possible to change the starting cards of the PCs by having them draw a random harrow card from the deck?

Edit: will we have the powers of every card available?

LoreMonger13 wrote:

LOVE everything about this so far, from the concept to the new additions! Been hankering to have first-party support for Harrowers, so REALLY pleased to see three different routes for that ala the Archetype, Bloodline, and Ritual!

ONE thing that I noticed, and if anyone could help me:
On page 14, the "Vengeful Spirit Deck" feat mentions it requires a basic save against the Harrower's Class DC to resist the damage, but it doesn't actually mention if this is a Fortitude, Reflex, or Will save. My guess would be Reflex, since you're lobbing an enchanted card at the target, but since Poison may instead go against Fortitude and Mental may go against Will, clarification would help. As it is, only three of the six cards have a given saving throw associated with them so we can't really use that for the other three.

I did look under the "Benevolent Spirit Deck" feat on the same page to see if it makes any mention of saves (since Vengeful Spirit Deck references this feat for damage types), but there was no mention there either.

Is my brain just not processing a line somewhere in these writeups? >.>

The Vengeful Spirit Deck should be a Reflex save. Sorry about that omission.

Gotcha, that makes sense! Thanks much for the clarification ^_^

Is it possible to change the starting cards of the PCs by having them draw a random harrow card from the deck?

Edit: will we have the powers of every card available?

The other cards are the subject of this adventure path, is my understand. They're already tied to various situations and characters; the ones in the PG are those that are 'free.'

Is it possible to change the starting cards of the PCs by having them draw a random harrow card from the deck?

Edit: will we have the powers of every card available?

The short version of this answer is "no."

The longer version is below, but I'm spoilering the answer because it's a big part of the Adventure Path...

BUT ALSO!

Page 83 of the first adventure does present a set of optional rules for you to use in your Stolen Fate campaign about "Manipulating Fate." These optional rules were originally part of the Player's Guide, and are based on a system I have used many times in my home games or at games I've run at conventions. This method lets players draw random cards at the start of a session, but they can't look at the card. During that session, they can flip the card over to reveal it to the group and the GM if they want to manipulate fate. The closer that card is thematically to that player's character and to the situation they're trying to manipulate, the more potent it is at bending fate to favor the PC.

I moved this out of the Player's Guide for 2 reasons.

1: It's not going to be something every table likes, and it's inclusion should be something the GM choses to do, because it does involve a fair amount of ad-libbing and rules bending that not every GM is comfortable with. I didn't want to put it into the Player's Guide and give the expectation that it HAS to be in every Stolen Fate game; by moving it to the adventure, it empowers the GM's choice and respects their comfort level with what can be a pretty fast-and-loose system of plot manipulation.

2: We ended up with about a page of blank space in the volume and this content, which I'd decided to cut because we don't do "GM's Guides" for our Adventure Paths, suddenly had a home.

So that's yet another way you can use Harrow cards to manipulate fate and events in the game.

There are more to come as well, but they're all surprises that should be encountered during the course of play.

Are there plans to bring Stolen Fate to Foundry VTT? If so, any best guess when?

(Our current campaign is ending soon and I would love to convince our group to continue with SF .. but chances are slim to convince the GM if he has to create all ingredients manually)

Are there plans to bring Stolen Fate to Foundry VTT? If so, any best guess when?

(Our current campaign is ending soon and I would love to convince our group to continue with SF .. but chances are slim to convince the GM if he has to create all ingredients manually)

Hello, yes Stolen Fate will have premium Foundry VTT modules, and they will be released on the release day of each book.

Can I ask a huge favor? Can you start putting Level range of APs front-and-center on all of your AP pages and announcements? I know it's not hard to download the Player's Guide or take an educated guess, but it's even easier to put the words "for levels X-Y" on pages and in announcements.

Other than that, this sounds like a fun one. If the comments on this are any indication, I'm assuming this is a 10-20 AP, so after the other campaigns we've already got planned, it might be nice to revisit the AV crew and send them on a new adventure.

The lump sum option under gear seems to be the lump sum for 12th level characters, not 11th level. Is this a mistake or intentional?

Can I ask a huge favor? Can you start putting Level range of APs front-and-center on all of your AP pages and announcements? I know it's not hard to download the Player's Guide or take an educated guess, but it's even easier to put the words "for levels X-Y" on pages and in announcements.

Other than that, this sounds like a fun one. If the comments on this are any indication, I'm assuming this is a 10-20 AP, so after the other campaigns we've already got planned, it might be nice to revisit the AV crew and send them on a new adventure.

Yes.

The lump sum option under gear seems to be the lump sum for 12th level characters, not 11th level. Is this a mistake or intentional?

It's a mistake, but not a big one, and I sort of think it's fine since it still limits the PCs to 10th level items. If you play through a full Adventure Path your group may well have more than the baseline expectation as well (we generally put 150% to 200% of the expected treasure in our adventures since not everything will be found or kept).

Feel free to adjust that lump sum value back down to 3,200 if you prefer.

And for those who do use the published value, please let us know if that affected game play for good or for ill!

Excited for this one, but am I reading Unraveling Blast correctly? At 11th level, it’s doing 17d4 damage? That’s a lot of dice to roll

michael3105 wrote:

Are there plans to bring Stolen Fate to Foundry VTT? If so, any best guess when?

(Our current campaign is ending soon and I would love to convince our group to continue with SF .. but chances are slim to convince the GM if he has to create all ingredients manually)

Hello, yes Stolen Fate will have premium Foundry VTT modules, and they will be released on the release day of each book.

Just wondering if that would hold a nice map of Absolom with a lot of info also. Already got the map but a interactive official map in foundry would be priceless.

Excited for this one, but am I reading Unraveling Blast correctly? At 11th level, it’s doing 17d4 damage? That’s a lot of dice to roll

That's correct. It does less damage on average than a cone of cold heightened to 6th level, but does indeed have a lot of dice to roll. For groups that allow phone apps to roll damage, that's a great solution (assuming you're not on a VTT, where the die rolling apps are built in).

It is indeed a lot of dice, and to some folks, that's a boon. Rolling lots of dice can be fun. It does take time to add those totals up, so if you know you're gonna do that on your turn and wanna save time, you can roll those dice before your turn during someone else's turn so you have time to calculate the total when your turn comes around.

That said, dice rolling apps are pretty ubiquitous these days...

redeux wrote:

michael3105 wrote:

Are there plans to bring Stolen Fate to Foundry VTT? If so, any best guess when?

(Our current campaign is ending soon and I would love to convince our group to continue with SF .. but chances are slim to convince the GM if he has to create all ingredients manually)

Hello, yes Stolen Fate will have premium Foundry VTT modules, and they will be released on the release day of each book.

Just wondering if that would hold a nice map of Absolom with a lot of info also. Already got the map but a interactive official map in foundry would be priceless.

From the Department of Expectation Management: Stolen Fate doesn't spend enough time in Absalom for a map of the city to be of use, so don't expect full map of the city in this Adventure Path.

{. . .}

And what is the nature of the vision that beckons you to a small game store in Absalom’s Grand Bazaar?
{. . .}

And what is the selection of games at this store? Do they have Papers & Paychecks?

Also, should we take the Harrow-themed stuff in this AP (and the new Harrow Deck) as a hint that more Harrow-themed stuff is coming? Like, for instance, the Harrowed Medium we were supposed to get in 1st Edition?

Also, should we take the Harrow-themed stuff in this AP (and the new Harrow Deck) as a hint that more Harrow-themed stuff is coming? Like, for instance, the Harrowed Medium we were supposed to get in 1st Edition?

I mean, is a 3-book AP, a new Harrow deck, a pretty elaborate Archetype, and a Sorcerer Bloodline not enough? There's not a ton of Harrow stuff left after that point.

Also, should we take the Harrow-themed stuff in this AP (and the new Harrow Deck) as a hint that more Harrow-themed stuff is coming? Like, for instance, the Harrowed Medium we were supposed to get in 1st Edition?

Not a direct hint, but we've already done...

...just off the top of my head, all of which use the harrow in some sort of small or large way. I suspect the chance of us doing an entire Adventure Path focused so strongly on the Harrow as we do in Stolen Fate is unlikely anytime soon again (if ever), but we'll continue to drop harrow elements into our stories as makes sense.

We have no plans to revisit the harrowed medium as far as I know.

Thanks for clarifying the save for Vengeful Spirit Deck, but I do have more questions. Is the intention that you have to spend three actions each turn (one to Sustain and two to throw a card), or is the intention that Sustainining Vengeful Spirit Deck should be a two-action activity that lets you throw a card?

Also, the traits shouldn't be "uncommon, archetype, metamagic". Should they be "uncommon, archetype, concentrate", instead, or even "uncommon, archetype, concentrate, manipulate"? Maybe "occult"?

Finally (I think), what's the damage type?

Thanks for clarifying the save for Vengeful Spirit Deck, but I do have more questions. Is the intention that you have to spend three actions each turn (one to Sustain and two to throw a card), or is the intention that Sustainining Vengeful Spirit Deck should be a two-action activity that lets you throw a card?

Also, the traits shouldn't be "uncommon, archetype, metamagic". Should they be "uncommon, archetype, concentrate", instead, or even "uncommon, archetype, concentrate, manipulate"? Maybe "occult"?

Finally (I think), what's the damage type?

Yes, once you activate Vengeful Spirit Deck, if you wanna keep throwing cards every round you have to sustain (one action) and then throw (two actions). You can sustain (one action) and then not throw, and move around or do other things if you need to, but once you stop sustaining or a minute passes, the spirit deck goes away.

The Metamagic trait should indeed probably switch to manipulate, since you're fiddling around with your cards. It shouldn't have any magic tradition associated with it, because it shouldn't imply that one tradition is more suited toward harrowing than others.

The damage type is determined by your active harrow omen, as mentioned in the description of the feat itself.

Thank you for your answers!

Any chance we'll get more accessible cardslinging options? Deadly Dealer was my favorite feat in 1st Edition, and Fane's Fourberie has a lot of elements that make it feel unsatisfying.

Any chance we'll get more accessible cardslinging options? Deadly Dealer was my favorite feat in 1st Edition, and Fane's Fourberie has a lot of elements that make it feel unsatisfying.

There will be more card-themed abilities associated with the cards you're searching for in the Adventure Path—each of them is its own magic item, and they have more powers than those we revealed in the Player's Guide (including those four; these cards have additional uses that will be discovered during the course of play, and we didn't include them for the four in the Player's Guide for spoiler reasons).

But Stolen Fate doesn't expand on the player options in the form of more card-based feats or archetypes; the Player's Guide has all that info we produced for this Adventure Path inside it.

There are no plans at this point, as far as I know, to do more Harrow-themed archetypes, but depending on the popularity of this Adventure Path and/or the Harrow deck, it's possible, I suppose. But again, no plans at this point... and our current plans take us all the way through 2024 and are creeping into 2025.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Also, should we take the Harrow-themed stuff in this AP (and the new Harrow Deck) as a hint that more Harrow-themed stuff is coming? Like, for instance, the Harrowed Medium we were supposed to get in 1st Edition?

I mean, is a 3-book AP, a new Harrow deck, a pretty elaborate Archetype, and a Sorcerer Bloodline not enough? There's not a ton of Harrow stuff left after that point.

I can think of 3 right off the top of my head:

Harrowed Medium -- this was a REALLY COOL although incomplete idea in the 1st Edition Occult Adventures Playtest, but then James Jacobs said in a post below yours that it isn't coming.

Harrow Mystery for Oracle.

Harrow Patron Theme for Witch (although this will probably have to wait for a hypothetical 2nd Edition Pathfinder Unchained to rework the Witch class).

I think its kinda unlikely for us to get any single option that takes three pages to explain how it works like the playtest harrow themed medium ^^;

Just from the player's guide I'm really hyped for this adventure, and I'm planning already in running it. Love the harrower archetype and the bloodline, anche can't wait to learn all the other cards abilities.

I was just wandering if in the Vengeful Spirit Deck feat, the DC being only expressed as a Class DC was intended for martial classes use only, or is just missing the "or spell DC" part.

Just from the player's guide I'm really hyped for this adventure, and I'm planning already in running it. Love the harrower archetype and the bloodline, anche can't wait to learn all the other cards abilities.

I was just wandering if in the Vengeful Spirit Deck feat, the DC being only expressed as a Class DC was intended for martial classes use only, or is just missing the "or spell DC" part.

This is absolutely the intent. The archetype should use your class DC or spell DC; it's the same thing, really–a DC set by your class (whether it's for spells or for class feats is irrelevant as far as the balance of the Harrower archetype is concerned).

It’s strange that the harrow bloodline gets suggestion for its 4th level bloodline spell, and not read omen. I can’t see how suggestion has anything to do with the harrow, but read omen seems obvious and it would be odd for a harrow sorcerer not to have it.

It's because the spell is uncommon. Outside of focus spells, characters typically don't receive access to uncommon spells without GM permission. Granting read omens would be breaking that rule.

Is hardened harrow deck counted as fine one, for EXPERIENCED HARROWER's cost negation?

Good to have some free Stolen fate players guide stuff out there for PF2e/PF re-Mas. ;)

Lores based on terrain will also be quite helpful as you travel the world, especially Forest Lore, Hills Lore, Mountain Lore, and Swamp Lore, but others like Desert Lore, Plains Lore, and Underworld Lore will have moments as well.

Underworld Lore does sound like a terrain lore, especially when included in a sentence explicitly about terrain lores XD

Stolen Fate Player's Guide wrote:

Lores based on terrain will also be quite helpful as you travel the world, especially Forest Lore, Hills Lore, Mountain Lore, and Swamp Lore, but others like Desert Lore, Plains Lore, and Underworld Lore will have moments as well.

Underworld Lore does sound like a terrain lore, especially when included in a sentence explicitly about terrain lores XD

I’m assuming it’s there as the closest equivalent to an Urban Lore, rather than one about the Darklands, or the afterlife…

That's a weird error. Underworld Lore DOES have a place in Stolen Fate, but it's for sure about the criminal underbelly of society, not something actually underground.

"Criminal Lore"? "Criminal World Lore"? <shrug>

Cyrad wrote:

Any chance we'll get more accessible cardslinging options? Deadly Dealer was my favorite feat in 1st Edition, and Fane's Fourberie has a lot of elements that make it feel unsatisfying.

There will be more card-themed abilities associated with the cards you're searching for in the Adventure Path—each of them is its own magic item, and they have more powers than those we revealed in the Player's Guide (including those four; these cards have additional uses that will be discovered during the course of play, and we didn't include them for the four in the Player's Guide for spoiler reasons).

But Stolen Fate doesn't expand on the player options in the form of more card-based feats or archetypes; the Player's Guide has all that info we produced for this Adventure Path inside it.

There are no plans at this point, as far as I know, to do more Harrow-themed archetypes, but depending on the popularity of this Adventure Path and/or the Harrow deck, it's possible, I suppose. But again, no plans at this point... and our current plans take us all the way through 2024 and are creeping into 2025.

Everyone wants to be Gambit. When will Paizo stop this blatant cajun-erasure!!!

Continues archetyping his Thaumaturge into Rogue for Fane's Fourberie & Predictive Purchase

That's a weird error. Underworld Lore DOES have a place in Stolen Fate, but it's for sure about the criminal underbelly of society, not something actually underground.

Yeah, should be Underground Lore if meant for terrain.

Underworld Lore is mentioned in the Criminal background. It is as James said.

Now, the Underworld dragon seems to be yet another thing.

I am about to start running this in PbP and am looking at the unique backgrounds. Several of them do not grant a trained skill or lore. Is this intentional? For reference they are:

Bookish Providence: No skill training
Crown of Chaos: No skill training
Hammered by Fate: No skill training
Key's to Destiny: No skill training
Shielded Fortune: No skill or lore training
Writ in the Stars: No skill training

It may be that the bonus action each background gives was in place of the skill training but that leaves Shielded Fortune looking a little out of place with no Lore skill either.