The Song is found (Inactive)

Game Master DEWN MOU'TAIN

DeJoker wrote:

Why do we not just make Bond Warder a Feat one acquires for free

RIZZENMAGNUS wrote:

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: given sometime tomorrow. Wife wants to go shopping. So itll be tomorrow night before i can post properly.

Okay then would please, as part of the longer explanation, outline the benefits that the Initiate is getting as part of this Bond Warder Feat they are taking?

I have been going through the slightly jumbled guidelines and I have not yet come across what the Initiate gets for taking this Feat that they theoretically only use once in their lifetime and definitely not once per day nor does it seem like something that enhances them in any mechanical way. At least from the little bit of the mechanics of it that I know about it thus far.

Further if it is supposed to be a Team Feat would not the Warder have to take the Team Feat as well much like the other Team Feats are outlined as working? Especially since the Warder gets a beneficial Template for it.

Bond warder isnt a feat. Its a weave a channeler has to learn to bond someone as a warder.

The usual replacement for 'Improved Initiative:'

Lightning Reflexes
You have faster reflexes than normal.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Reflex saving throws

In Discord

Do me a favor and just post a reminder for me to address this. Im afraid ill forget today

Hey Rizz, this is the reminder you asked about :)

Ah okay my bad some how I thought you had to use a Feat to learn a Weave.

Now so that I am not misunderstanding something here due to terminology, in Pathfinder terms a Weave is just a Spell, with slightly different mechanics, and you learn Weaves either like Wizard's learn spells, which is to say they are not limited, or you learn spells like a Sorcerer in that you only know a limited number but you can swap them out later on upon gaining a level for a different spell.

Oh and thanks for being patient with me on this, I am trying to get this clear because I have always had a slight problem with the old school process of spells where the player needs to be semi-omnipotent in order to choose the spells they ought to prepare for the next day and where there is no mechanic to reflect that the character has a much greater Intelligence and/or Wisdom than the player and because there is no pre-written guideline GMs tend not to compensate for this anomoly either. However it was this very issue that way back in 2nd Edition of DnD I created my own magic system that greatly resembles the current one found in DnD's 5th Edition.

One of those elements was that, while players still prepared a limited number of spells each day, they could use a spell slot to cast any spell that they had prepared this helps get away from needing to be so omnipotent and allows taking some utility spells a viable option. Where in the current system as it stands, in my experience as a GM, most players often forwent taking utility spells when picking their limited spells for the day. Rightly so considering that not have having the necessary combat magic could spell death and not having a needed utility spell is just an inconvenience. However, if all you had to do was prepare a few combat spells and could use a spell slot (energy) as needed when needed then preparing a few utility spells is a non-issue as then it becomes a issue of energy conservation which you do not have to decide ahead of time -- aka removing the semi-omnipotent issue and not needing to be concerned that the player's Intelligence/Wisdom might be less than that of character's Intelligence/Wisdom. Further one could use DnD 5e's way of doing this for those that have to prepare spells ahead of time (aka Wizards and Clerics) one gets to prepare one spell per available spell slot as normal but can use the energy to cast any of the spells they currently have prepared and they do not suddenly forget that prepared spell so they can then in effect use all their spell slots to cast that same spell over and over again as needed.

Just food for thought and/or adoption if you like.

Not to get in the middle of a discussion about mechanics, but fluff-wise....

...that they theoretically only use once in their lifetime...

In the books there were several Aes Sedai who had more than one Warder at a time and several who had many warders through their long life time.

Okay Robert Henry that I already knew but from my understanding of the game concept this is really only going to happen once IF it happens at all. I am highly doubting that the GM would allow me to have a harem of NPC Warders or to Bond the entire party to my character assuming the entire party were willing to do so that is.

Thus in game mechanics it is theoretically only going to be used once in the character's lifetime since Bonding one person let alone more than one is going to be fairly rare -- but I could be wrong on this maybe the GM is okay with someone having a harem of NPC Warders and will give ample opportunities to do so and/or Bonding every party member is just fine with them assuming again the other players are okay with it and they gain some benefit from doing so but, as I said, I just see that as highly unlikely.

DeJoker does bring up a couple of valid points. I’ll throw out some ideas:

PC channeler bonds an NPC = PC needs a feat like leadership (gains a controllable NPC), PC gains alertness + toughness and needs to know the weave.

PC bonded by a NPC channeler = gains the warder template (this should probably cost a feat)

Two PCs bonded to each other channeler gains (toughness, alertness), warder gains (template) does this cost a feat (like a teamwork feat or is just knowing the weave enough).

It is definitely unbalanced if it doesn’t cost the warder anything. But not everything is about balance either.

Just some thoughts feel free to ignore them.

No Tehn Falind I think ideas are always good and a GM is always free to pick and choose what they feel is viable for their Campaign even from the official guidelines. Further I by no means corner the market on good ideas and definitely feel there is merit to your suggestions.

Oh and RIZZENMAGNUS Corrik and I had a question for you pretaining to the union as to which might serve the story you plan to be running better.

1) A rejected (and/or exiled) righteous Initiate who is determined to find the Horn (that holy grail type of McGuffin that neither of us are sure what is) to prove she is right

2) An unique and fiery Wilder often at odds with the world

I am fine with playing either but they would have differnt impacts upon the campaign you are running and since you are letting us start with the Bond Warder in place and letting Corrik play a female Warder we really wanted to give something back in return in order to help make the game more fun for you and the other players. Please let us know which one you prefer.

For that matter if the other players would like to weigh in on this that would be appreciated as well.

1) A rejected (and/or exiled) righteous Initiate who is determined to find the Horn (that holy grail type of McGuffin that neither of us are sure what is) to prove she is right

Curious idea. it would help explain a warder. Also, if she were a green, she might be more likely to have more than one warder.

So far in the recruitment along with the initiate/wilder we have two armsmen, one ranger, one Dai’dore and 'TheNine's' character. I don't know if anyone is going to join us from the other game, but there may be as many as five people who would be willing to be warders.

I'm not trying to be a curmudgeon when we're discussing the possible rule changes, but we may be bringing in people from the other game that has already started. Since Rizz is running two simultaneous games I don't know how much rule changes were going to see. I've been in four other WoT games with Rizz along with some others who have posted here, and he does a really good job moderating. So, I'm more concerned with believable well-developed characters than tweaking the rules. Though I will confess I asked about some of the weapons from PF, I'm a big fan of the Nodachi he said no :)

So, I'm more concerned with believable well-developed characters than tweaking the rules.

I agree 100%.

I'm down to pay a feat, wait, or whatever. While the mechanical benefits are nice and I'm certainly interested in them, I'm more interested in playing with the character dynamics.

I'll probably have a preliminary build and backstory up tonight. I've kept a lot of things modular because I'm not quite sure how the warder/initiate stuff will land and want to make sure we get things thematically correct for the setting.

A bombastic sorcerous responding to an insult with fireballs while her warder tries to carry to her safety may be a great dynamic, but it's not very on brand for Wheel of Time. Except maybe at the end? Things seem to get a bit DBZ as far as power levels go.

A wilder is good if we want to be outside, and possibly, against the system/cultural norms. We aren't the traditional warder bonded pair, and that might get some scorn or laughs, kids playing dress up, etc. I'd say the Children might have an issue with us but that goes without saying, they don't like anyone.

It could be that we have no better options than to go questing for the horn. Gives us something to do, keeps a spaced out from judging eyes, and could be a good(or maybe our only) means to finding a way to perform the bonding spell. Either by learning it ourselves, gaining the favor of someone who could, etc.

Being an initiate is the best option to "play it straight". DeJoker is an Aes Sedai initiate and I'm a warder-to-be. We're sent on the quest as a sort of proving, or maybe implications of zuko-esque exile by way of quest. Or maybe just because of that devil thing.

To be overly brief, my character's motivations are simply to devote herself to someone, to be good enough to do so. The whys and hows are mutable and varied, but basically this is how she proves her worth, by being valuable through service.

So DeJoker the first question(s) are what kind of person do you want to play that is worth that devotion? Is magic a thing of study, mastery, and control? Or is it a wild and instinctual thing? Do you like being above others or does it just make you feel apart?

But most importantly, you have to ask yourself the big question: Do you want to use cold double speak to avoid lying a lot?

Curious idea. it would help explain a warder. Also, if she were a green, she might be more likely to have more than one warder.

Yeah the green seems like a good fit to me as well. Certainly the best option if we'll have ties to the tower.

Though I will confess I asked about some of the weapons from PF, I'm a big fan of the Nodachi he said no

I always like to play loosy goosy with weapon fluff. You don't specifically need a different mechanical item. Just pick one of the other weapons and fluff it more as a Nodachi. The Hafted Axe or Scythe serve as a two-handed slashing weapon. And a Bill serves if you want to play up the reach of the weapon.

If you are going to get a masterwork weapon you could say its a weapon you specifically commissioned from a smith. And it just so happens that my character is a weapons and armor smith. Could be a connection for how we met.

So, I'm more concerned with believable well-developed characters than tweaking the rules.

I agree 100%.

And I agree another 100% but my motto is it never hurts to ask and/or make suggestions as good GMs know what fits in their game and what does not.

To answer your question Corrik I have posted the kind of person I want to play. Once I have the base premise then the rest tends to fall in place like a string of dominoes. So right now I am simply awaiting the GMs reponse to my last question of which he feels would fit best within the game he is thinking about running. Once I have that information I will be off to the races.

... Once I have the base premise then the rest tends to fall in place like a string of dominoes. So right now I am simply awaiting the GMs reponse to my last question of which he feels would fit best within the game he is thinking about running. Once I have that information I will be off to the races.

That's a great talent, I'm a little jealous. I need to at least have a few tropes in mind as I set up the crunch and vice versa or the character doesn't come together for me.

Thanks but it simply has come from doing a lot of character creation for myself as well as helping others make fuller characters for in the games I run.

I am a GM that believes in helping players make 3-dimensional characters if they are wanting to and that cannot be done with out the GMs direct input and collaboration. Thus I have to look at someones concept and imagine how they might become more integrel to the setting and the adventures I am thinking about running. And while helping my players create their characters I am also expanding and/or remodeling my campaign to fit the players I am getting.

So I guess if you do that enough it just becomes a minor exercise in creativity.

Thanks but it simply has come from doing a lot of character creation for myself as well as helping others make fuller characters for in the games I run.

So have you ran games on PBP post before or just in person?

Well Navarre "Two-Fingers" I have been doing PbP (both as a GM and a Player) since when we connected to the internet using dial up modems and I have been FtF GMing/Playing since 1st Edition DnD. So yeah I have done them both and for many many systems and genres.

On this forum I am launching a DnD5e Campaign and took over a Marvel Superheroes game both are being a bit slow to start due to the getting the potential players completed but I think I have a bit of both them about ready to start. Basically going to start (if the players are okay with it) with those that are ready (smaller group than those that applied) to help maybe motivate the players still sitting out there in the wings.

Feel free to apply to either game as I have room in both since I am not sure how many of those that applied are actually going to end up finishing their characters.

First Edition, cool.

I played D&D/AD&D in college until '82, dropped out and life happened. I picked up Pathfinder here on the boards back in 2014. I've not played either 5E or Marvel. Just starting to learn PF2. But thanks for the offer.

Oh, feel free to shorten that to Navarre, or Nav or just RH, no need to be so formal :)

Well I am willing to help you learn either DnD5e or Marvel Superheroes if either of those strikes your interest. As, I think I said, I am a GM that collaborates with my players on their characters to help them hopefully build a 3-dimensional character rather then the more typical 2-dimensional or 1-dimensional ones.

So do not let not knowing the system hold you back from applying you might find it is a lot easier than it might seem.

So do not let not knowing the system hold you back from applying you might find it is a lot easier than it might seem.

Sadly, through the process of trial and error, I've learned that I need a comfortable understanding of the game system before I start to build the characters. Rhus the comment about building the crunch and fluff at the same time. Combining that with the fact that I'm too cheap to spend a lot of money on 'game systems' I find it easier just to stick with Pathfinder and it's derivative systems like the wheel of Time or The World of Xoth..

But I do appreciate the offer.

DeJoker does bring up a couple of valid points. I’ll throw out some ideas:

PC channeler bonds an NPC = PC needs a feat like leadership (gains a controllable NPC), PC gains alertness + toughness and needs to know the weave.

PC bonded by a NPC channeler = gains the warder template (this should probably cost a feat)

Two PCs bonded to each other channeler gains (toughness, alertness), warder gains (template) does this cost a feat (like a teamwork feat or is just knowing the weave enough).

It is definitely unbalanced if it doesn’t cost the warder anything. But not everything is about balance either.

Just some thoughts feel free to ignore them.

another option is an npc channeler bonds the pc, and then passes the bond over to another channeler.

Ah okay my bad some how I thought you had to use a Feat to learn a Weave.

Now so that I am not misunderstanding something here due to terminology, in Pathfinder terms a Weave is just a Spell, with slightly different mechanics, and you learn Weaves either like Wizard's learn spells, which is to say they are not limited, or you learn spells like a Sorcerer in that you only know a limited number but you can swap them out later on upon gaining a level for a different spell.

weave=spell.

kind of. a channeler is like a sorcerer in that a sorcerer learns a spell or multiples at every level, but unlike the sorcerer that can choose to swap spells, the channeler is stuck with these weaves for life.

the big difference is that the weaves, the vast majority of them are scaleable. For example, arms of air are 0-12th level. at 0 level you can lift/pull/push 5lbs. at 12th level, you can lift/pull/push 100.000 lbs.

Oh and thanks for being patient with me on this, I am trying to get this clear because I have always had a slight problem with the old school process of spells where the player needs to be semi-omnipotent in order to choose the spells they ought to prepare for the next day and where there is no mechanic to reflect that the character has a much greater Intelligence and/or Wisdom than the player and because there is no pre-written guideline GMs tend not to compensate for this anomoly either. However it was this very issue that way back in 2nd Edition of DnD I created my own magic system that greatly resembles the current one found in DnD's 5th Edition.

One of those elements was that, while players still prepared a limited number of spells each day, they could use a spell slot to cast any spell that they had prepared this helps get away from needing to be so omnipotent and allows taking some utility spells a viable option. Where in the current system as it stands, in my experience as a GM, most players often forwent taking utility spells when picking their limited spells for the day. Rightly so considering that not have having the necessary combat magic could spell death and not having a needed utility spell is just an inconvenience. However, if all you had to do was prepare a few combat spells and could use a spell slot (energy) as needed when needed then preparing a few utility spells is a non-issue as then it becomes a issue of energy conservation which you do not have to decide ahead of time -- aka removing the semi-omnipotent issue...

one thing to note is that while you only have access to a limited number of casting weaves per day, there is no limit to how many weaves you can know or learn (with the exception that you have to have the talent for the group. so elementalilsm, cloud dancing, etc. Or if the weave is lost, no one knows how to do this.) so, if you were high enough level, you could have the talent feats to learn everything, the affinities to lower the channelling level costs, and make you a walking talking one power repository of capable spells.

Navarre "Two-Fingers" wrote:

The usual replacement for 'Improved Initiative:'

Lightning Reflexes
You have faster reflexes than normal.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Reflex saving throws

RIZZENMAGNUS wrote:

In Discord

Do me a favor and just post a reminder for me to address this. Im afraid ill forget today

Hey Rizz, this is the reminder you asked about :)

yup. thanks for the reminder.

yes. for the woodsman, instead of having the partial improved initiative class ability that grants the improved initiative feat to the woodsman like similar to the ranger, since i dont use initiative within my posts, it is replaced with the Lightning reflexes feat.

although...now that i think about it. what would be better, lightning reflexes or dodge feat?

I am fine with playing either but they would have differnt impacts upon the campaign you are running and since you are letting us start with the Bond Warder in place and letting Corrik play a female Warder we really wanted to give something back in return in order to help make the game more fun for you and the other players. Please let us know which one you prefer.

first: just to make it clear for me. Corrik would play the female warder. Dejoker would play a female wilder or initiate.

DeJoker wrote:

I am fine with playing either but they would have differnt impacts upon the campaign you are running and since you are letting us start with the Bond Warder in place and letting Corrik play a female Warder we really wanted to give something back in return in order to help make the game more fun for you and the other players. Please let us know which one you prefer.

first: just to make it clear for me. Corrik would play the female warder. Dejoker would play a female wilder or initiate.

Correct. I believe Dejoker is fine with either and wants to know what would be better for your game. An initiate who is more aligned with the system, or a wilder who is more outside the system.

yes. for the woodsman, instead of having the partial improved initiative class ability that grants the improved initiative feat to the woodsman like similar to the ranger, since i dont use initiative within my posts, it is replaced with the Lightning reflexes feat.

although...now that i think about it. what would be better, lightning reflexes or dodge feat?

Quick draw could be an option too.

ninja'd by Tehn Falind, will edit

although...now that i think about it. what would be better, lightning reflexes or dodge feat?

Would you leave Lighting reflexes as the replacement for Improved init. for sword forms? Since Dodge is a prerequisite for other sword forms, or do we get to double dip :)

Quick draw could be an option too.

Quick draw is a prerequisite for some sword forms as well...

Oh and RIZZENMAGNUS Corrik and I had a question for you pretaining to the union as to which might serve the story you plan to be running better.

1) A rejected (and/or exiled) righteous Initiate who is determined to find the Horn (that holy grail type of McGuffin that neither of us are sure what is) to prove she is right

2) An unique and fiery Wilder often at odds with the world

I am fine with playing either but they would have differnt impacts upon the campaign you are running and since you are letting us start with the Bond Warder in place and letting Corrik play a female Warder we really wanted to give something back in return in order to help make the game more fun for you and the other players. Please let us know which one you prefer.

Im pretty sure im gonna make you clack your jaw together when i say this, but, it'll be said anyways.

You guys choose.

i have an entire campaign planned out. this first adventure is planned out as well, while the rest of the adventures (7) i sit and poke at with a stick every once in a while. during this process i never once think "ohh, this encounter needs a wanderer to get past." I just make the encounters and let the players figure out how to overcome them. a wander could pick a lock, an armsman could use a crowbar, a channeler could blow apart the doors. The aiel slips through the open window next to the door.

For me, and my style of DM, i dont design adventures and encounters that i expect to require everyone's abilities. I create them to just be. whether they are super easy, average, or "oh by The Light and my salvation in the Creator what did i just walk into!??!?!" I know i said it before about if 4 players want to play as wanderers, thats fine. If they want to play as all male asha'man, cool. 3 borderlander woodsmans and one noble? ok.
When it's comes to character classes, it's fine. whatever you the player wants to play is fine.

what i do care about is the background of your character. is it fleshed out? is there stuff in there that i can work with that i can incorporate into the adventures thatll give that special connection between player/character and game?

If you, dejoker, want to play as that upstart initiate that thinks she knows everything and knows she'll find the Horn, and has that singular one track mind going on, cool. Thumbs up. I can have aes sedai who run into you and be like You!?!??! you were an absolute, wretched girl who deserved the thrashings you got from sheriam. In fact, ill give you another for old times sake or Aww its you! i rememeber you. always asking about the horn in the tower library. Your nose in a book until the sun rose. Such a determined little scholar you were. shame you got tossed out because of your obsession with it. If you had just listened to me, you couldve been a Brown

If you want to play as that wilder that has a chip on her shoulder larger than cliffs of Shara, be my guest. Perhaps she was mistreated by her family because she started to develop her power early, and it led to some unique outbursts, causing her mother to push her away. Perhaps it happened fast, seemingly overnight, an accident that makes her jilted towards potential lovers. A run in with Whitecloaks? Maybe she went to the tower to apply to be an aes sedai and was turned away at the door because the apprentice at the door was jealous of a wilder appearing with more power than her years of study. maybe this caused the simmering anger that motivates her to just prove herself in everything she does with the one power. Its never good enough. its never impressive enough. She always doubts she did things right, the correct way, the Aes sedai way. Perhaps her chip on her shoulder is such that, deep down, she still wants to be an aes sedai.

so, unfortunately for you and corrik, you wont get a straight answer of what im looking for for this new start up group. If this group was going on for 4 years, and the group only has a single channeler and said player steps away, sure ill make a recruitment post saying "hey, i need a channeler". But now, at this start of a group, the initial startup. Nope. It's rare that ive said "hey, play a rogue. Play a fighter."

Quick draw could be an option too.

ooooooooo...i hadnt thought of that...

@robert: yes.

Stats for the warder, will have a backstory update later.

you know...i was sitting here for the last couple days, looking at the template and just thinking to myself gee, there's something missing here. finally figured out what was missing. the reference to the actual bond warder weave in the wotrpg book.

Now...for the long answer on bonding....well, its not that long actually. i just focused on working on the warder template.

we'll stick with keeping bonding as a weave that has to be taken by a pc if they should want to bond someone (unless the PC and DM agree to a NPC channeler passing the bond to another PC).

Bonded Warder Template: (Source, Post #649 Jonasty’s campaign)

+2 enhancement bonus to Strength, dexterity, or constitution
+3 hp per level (Stacks with toughness)
+5’ bonus to base speed
+2 to all saving throws against weaves and abilities of shadowspawn and darkfriend (darkfriend is defined as someone who has sworn oaths to the Dark One)
gains endurance feat
Warder may use Holders will save instead of own will save.
+6 to perception against shadowspawn

If the warder’s charge dies, in addition to 1d4 per channelers level damage, the warder must make a Will save DC equal to the Channeler’s level +5 or become consumed with finding warder's own death. Care in another channeler’s hands for a full month can give a second save.

what the channeler/bonder gains
see page 167 of the WOTRPG book for aging, compelled to obey, connection, shared energy

****these will have to be playtested*****

if warder and channeler are same sex.
-shared emotions. The channeler and warder both experience greater emotional connection, to the point where each individual has difficulty in figuring out if an emotion is their's or the others.
[i]warder and channeler would have to make separate concentration checks when in combat. If the channeler fails, she suffers a -4 to concentration checks and is always considered to be melee combat and must always cast defensively every round.
If the warder fails, (and if both are female), then the warder suffers a -2 to all attacks as the warder succumbes to the surrendering "vibe" the female channeler must adhere to to embrace Saidar. If both are male, then the warder enters into a fit of rage as the male channeler seizes upon Saidan. The warder gains the rage ability (as per barbarian. The +4 to str and con), it lasts for the duration of the fight. The Warder though is unable to distinguish friend from foe, including his own ward, and will cut down everyone in his path.

I will do more later, specifically concentrating upon bonding of channelers between each other.

Okay so still hashing things out, but Dejoker and I wanted to run an idea past you.

Shimy's mother was an Aes Sedai hopeful who was turned away or failed out. This is part of the reason Shimy wants to be a warder, to help complete her mother's dream for her. However, this was not to be.

Shimy either gets rejected or never makes it to the tower. Somewhere along the way Dejokers wilder and shimy cross paths and team up(maybe even since childhood?).

Some event sees Shimmy severally injured, beyond the normal ability to heal. Dejoker's character and Shimmy's mother form a link to turn Shimy into a warder, and in the process of healing Shimy, her mother spends more energy than she can safely handle. Burning out and dying in the process but transferring the bond to Dejoker's character first to prevent the bond from killing Shimy.

This leave's Dejoker's character and Shimmy bonded, with a nice bit of tragedy, and a possible reason to join the hunt for the horn. A desperate 2nd chance to say goodbye to her mother. Maybe literally, maybe just by imagining that her mother is one of the heroes summoned.

I like the ideas for the same sex warder bond stuff.

Really need to just do the gear buy and write up the background percolating in my head . . ..

Shimy's mother was an Aes Sedai hopeful who was turned away or failed out. This is part of the reason Shimy wants to be a warder, to help complete her mother's dream for her. However, this was not to be.

Shimy either gets rejected or never makes it to the tower. Somewhere along the way Dejokers wilder and shimy cross paths and team up(maybe even since childhood?).

Is Shimy's mother related to the 'Kin'? Either way, couldn't Shimy's mother have trained Dejoker's wilder?

Rashima “Shimy” Deron wrote:

Shimy's mother was an Aes Sedai hopeful who was turned away or failed out. This is part of the reason Shimy wants to be a warder, to help complete her mother's dream for her. However, this was not to be.

Shimy either gets rejected or never makes it to the tower. Somewhere along the way Dejokers wilder and shimy cross paths and team up(maybe even since childhood?).

Is Shimy's mother related to the 'Kin'? Either way, couldn't Shimy's mother have trained Dejoker's wilder?

Wasn't familiar with them but it looks like there is a lot to play with there. Maybe Shimmy doesn't know that her mother was in the Kin and finds out later when they run into other members?

And having her train Dejoker's wilder is a great idea. She could have trained her for years, teaching the wilder most of what she knows. Or she could just be a rare source of weave training for an experienced wilder.

I was tossing around the idea of the Child of the Light being the baddies in this. And it seems the Kin stuff adds a layer to that.

Okay, got a working point for Garl Bowyer (who has no crafting skill, BTW).

Background is about as simple as it could be at this point.

Garl Bowyer

Garl was born and raised in Boshar's Mill, a smaller village on the Whispering Water (one of the Two Rivers), where the road from Buerlon to Whitebridge reaches the river. The village grew around the mill, which was built to serve the surrounding villages and their farms., but all of this happened long enough ago that nobody actually remembers who Boshar was. The existence of the mill keeps the Tarkens' ferry busy through the late summer and fall, leaving the Trakens to base their main income in a tannery.

Sherv, Garl's mother, used to work in the inn. Culth Bowyer married her after she turned up pregnant, and neither have admitted to anyone else that they both know Garl is not his son. Not even Garl. Sherv remembers a young Gleeman who sired the lad. He's never returned to Boshar's Mill, though other Gleeman travel the large road fairly consistently.

These days, Sherv has a small textile operation, turning the flax some of the local farmers grow into linen. Culth supported her, doing the maintenance on the equipment and facilities, as well as supplementing their income by hunting in the woods on the other side of the river, providing meat for themselves and others (including the inn) and skins for the tannery. Garl learned the basics of being a Woodsman from Culth. Being a Woodsman isn't safe, though, and during Garl's 15th summer, Culth was taken by a bear. Garl and others from Boshar's Mill took the bear in order to ensure it didn't kill more people. At this point, Garl inherited the gear passed down through the Bowyer line, as well as responsibility to support his mother.

The youth of Boshar's Mill are acutely aware of the existence of the larger world, and are exposed to evidence of it's wonders continuously, though not constantly. As a result, few of the youth choose to stay and live the way their parents did though enough still do for the population to remain reasonably steady. There are few immigrants into Boshar's Mill, because those traveling the road tend to be looking for something closer to the life in the big cities at either end of the road . . .. Culth's death seemed to cement Garl's place as one of the few who would remain.

The tales from passing Gleemen certainly piqued young Garl's interest and curiosity, but he understood that he was growing into a firm place in Boshar's Mill, and his future was reasonably secure. Then the Gleeman stories began changing. They started talking about new events, and new efforts to match those of legend. Garl found that the appeal of his comfortable future was invisible compared to the glow of potentially becoming a legend, and he left to become a Hunter of the Horn. As he traveled, Garl supported himself through hunting and doing odd chores. Maintaining his mother's operation had taught him to accept hard work, to recognize the value of doing something right instead of just doing enough.

This will be the Nine's Entrant, reskinning Jair, still a work in progress.

He will be an Amadician Nobleman/wanderer. The Gm and a select few know his background. Will finish up the build soon. Background incoming as well.

Shimy's mother was an Aes Sedai hopeful who was turned away or failed out. This is part of the reason Shimy wants to be a warder, to help complete her mother's dream for her. However, this was not to be.

Shimy either gets rejected or never makes it to the tower. Somewhere along the way Dejokers wilder and shimy cross paths and team up(maybe even since childhood?

I like your idea.

Follow up question: how does shimy's mother's desire to be an aes sedai translate to shimy beibg a warder? Is it that the mom wanted to be associated with the white tower in any way she could?

I like your idea.

Follow up question: how does shimy's mother's desire to be an aes sedai translate to shimy beibg a warder? Is it that the mom wanted to be associated with the white tower in any way she could?

I think there would be a few reasons. First off, the mother likely told romantic stories of the Tower and Aes Sedai to Shimmy. Instilling a childhood fascination.

I also imagine that with Shimmy's birth, the mother had this little dream that her daughter would grow up and join the tower. A dream that was crushed when it became clear Shimmy couldn't channel. And while the mom might had tried not to let that show, children pick up on that sort of thing. Becoming a warder is the next best thing to try to win that parental approval.

Foolish pride also plays a part, as it so often does. Shimmy's mother being rejected is a mark on the families pride. Having another member be accepted is a way to remove that mark. Though this is definitely more of a subconscious reason.

And speaking of the subconscious; Being a warder is a way to have a deep, meaningful mental and physical relationship with a woman. Which Shimmy is fascinated with for totally normal duty-bound reasons. I mean, what else could it be? /s

And speaking of the subconscious; Being a warder is a way to have a deep, meaningful mental and physical relationship with a woman. Which Shimmy is fascinated with for totally normal duty-bound reasons. I mean, what else could it be? /s

...ummmm...ooookaaayyyy....?

Rashima “Shimy” Deron wrote:

And speaking of the subconscious; Being a warder is a way to have a deep, meaningful mental and physical relationship with a woman. Which Shimmy is fascinated with for totally normal duty-bound reasons. I mean, what else could it be? /s

...ummmm...ooookaaayyyy....?

Just an in the closet joke, pay no mind.

Okay got the preliminary outline up still need to fill all the crunchy bits that go along with it. Was originally going to play a straight Wilder but then well the backstory has her starting out as an Initiate and then leaving the White "Ivory" Tower Behind and striking out southish and traveling and helping the more common folk along the way. Especially those without such aid at hand.

I will get all the crunch the background story up there as quickly as I can. Don't want to the one slowing this shindig down.

Hey RIZZENMAGNUS from what I can tell the only languages in the Wheel of Time World are 11 Dialects of Common, Noble, and Ogier.

Well okay their is Trolloc but it did not sound like normal folks would be able to speak it.

Are those the only languages you are using in the game.

Also you have Innuendo on the new skill list but that is not a skill found in the Wheel of Time book what, if any, classes might have that as a Class Skill?

Also Spell Craft and Use Magic Device appear in the Wheel of Time Skill List but do not appear in the New Skill List and I see no mention of that in the Skill Changes section was this an oversight or were they simply removed? And/or was Spell Craft rolled into Invert and/or Weavesight?

Hey RIZZENMAGNUS from what I can tell the only languages in the Wheel of Time World are 11 Dialects of Common, Noble, and Ogier.

Well okay their is Trolloc but it did not sound like normal folks would be able to speak it.

Are those the only languages you are using in the game.

Also you have Innuendo on the new skill list but that is not a skill found in the Wheel of Time book what, if any, classes might have that as a Class Skill?

Also Spell Craft and Use Magic Device appear in the Wheel of Time Skill List but do not appear in the New Skill List and I see no mention of that in the Skill Changes section was this an oversight or were they simply removed? And/or was Spell Craft rolled into Invert and/or Weavesight?

Innuendo: turns into bluff on the skills list. that shouldve been deleted. So, if a class in the wotrpg book is listed as having innuendo as a class skill, replace it with bluff.

for spellcraft and use magic device: It does? where? Both spellcraft and use magic device are not listed in the wotrpg book nor on the updated skills list. hence why neither are listed in the updated skills list.

Language: for speech, we have
aiel speech
atha'an miere
borderlander (Saldea, kandor, arafel, sheinar, malkier)
cairhienin
Domani (arad doman, northern part of the almoth plain)
Ebou Dari (Altara) [case could be made for Amadica and Children of light)
Illianer
Midlander (andor, tar valon, Murandy, Ghealdan, Caralain grass, Far Madding)
Tairen (includes Mayene)
Taraboner (tarabon, Shadow coast region, southern part of Almoth plain)
Seanchan (*special)
Ogier
Noble (unique phrases of the Old Tongue)
Trolloc

*added*
Old Tongue:

additional languages:
Aiel hand speech for each of the 13 clans*
aiel hand speech for each of the 13 societies*

Languages are dictated by the Linguistics skill.
as per pathfinder, for every rank you put into linguistics, you can choose a new dialect or language to be fluent in.

There is one overarching language in WOT, that is Common. There are dialects.

So we are allowed to know and we can speak Trolloc ??

Also from what I read Noble = Old Tongue just that most nobles only no a smattering of the language and/or a few unique phrases are you saying that Noble is different than Old Tongue?

Current Characters:

Talia Ze'atsev: female channeler
Rashima “Shimy” Deron: Armswoman
Navarre "Two-Fingers": armsman
Garl Bowyer: woodsman
Jair Serkerova: wandering nobleman

ok. we got 5.

i created a discussion thread. so everyone feel free to ping or dot or doot or bloop or bump in the thread.

Current Characters:

Talia Ze'atsev: female channeler
Rashima “Shimy” Deron: Armswoman
Navarre "Two-Fingers": armsman
Garl Bowyer: woodsman
Jair Serkerova: wandering nobleman

ok. we got 5.

Just so I’m clear. Those are the the characters you selected and the recruitment is closed.

So we are allowed to know and we can speak Trolloc ??

Also from what I read Noble = Old Tongue just that most nobles only no a smattering of the language and/or a few unique phrases are you saying that Noble is different than Old Tongue?

Also just checking would I be able to take Craft[Alchemy] and if yes what things would I be allowed to make with it? Not a must have just was wondering in this setting if it were viable?

In addition to my previous 3 questions just above I stumbled across another one.

So with those guidelines it would appear that eventually while in the White Tower an Initiate could theoretically learn every Weave that they are capable of casting with or without Overchanneling. However, that does not seem quite how the guidelines are supposed to work.

Now a Wilder gains one additional Common Weave at each additional level of any level which they are able to cast (if they can cast a Weave within the range of a multilevel Weave, they can learn that Weave). These are Weaves that the Wilder has managed to "figure out" on their own, relying on intuition and experience with the One Power. In addition, the Wilder can learn new Weaves by observation. See the Weavesight skill description for more information.

Further it would seem with an entire school of Initiates and a much higher level Mentor that acquiring new Weaves does seem like it would be a fairly easy task and at each level a Initiate should probably know every spell that they were capable of casting.

Soooo... how are you actually going to work this for the Initiate. Now do not get me wrong, I would love knowing every Weave I was cable of casting at 1st and 2nd level but that seems a bit much.

Further how does that factor into the Wilder as they get 1 Free Weave per level but can learn others through observation. Granted they are not as good at doing that and they would have a lot less chances to gain access to seeing such spells being cast but still they ought to be allowed to have learned some spells through Weavesight for levels 2 through 5 yes/no?

A thought I had was base it off their Weavesight skill some how which would of course incorporate the Initiate's +4 bonus to Weavesight and the character's aptitude (Ability Modifier).

RIZZENMAGNUS wrote:

Current Characters:

Talia Ze'atsev: female channeler
Rashima “Shimy” Deron: Armswoman
Navarre "Two-Fingers": armsman
Garl Bowyer: woodsman
Jair Serkerova: wandering nobleman

ok. we got 5.

Just so I’m clear. Those are the the characters you selected and the recruitment is closed.

sorry. i was going through the list of submitted characters, i looked at your character, said yup, she's good...

...and then totally forgot to add you to the list.

**ugg**

my apologies.

feel free to jump over into the discussion page.