NIGHT BELOW - Black Dow's C&C Underdark Campaign

Game Master Black Dow

@Rannock: Anytime. :)

I get that CN makes people leery, but I'm not going to use it as carte blanche to be a jerk.

I've been reading more about the classing options in the game. Since there are so many homages to AD&D, I dragged out my PHB to remind myself of how those rules worked.

The first principle is the CK is free to adjust the rules in any way he or she likes. So this next bit is purely what I'm taking as RAW and is totally subject to CK overrule. This is more of a 'food for thought' exercise.

It looks to me like the rules do not envision 'class dipping' whatsoever. It talks about selecting the heroic 'archetype' (class) for your character as a basis. And then your backstory and other choices are where you differentiate your character. Now, if the available single classes don't fit the heroic archetype in your head (they use the example of you wanting a fighter/wizard for example) that is where you elect (at 1st level) to Multiclass to create that archetype you envision. Once you've decided that your vision requires a Multiclass, you then choose from two types. The true Multiclass is for an archetype where the powers are in balance - an equal level of skill. The 'Class and a Half' option is if you imagine an archetype where one aspect is greater. Again they use the example of the fighter/wizard. Are you a fighter (Primary) with a few wizard spells (Support)? Or are you a Wizard (Primary) who knows a bit about melee combat (Support)?

It looks to me like Multiclass and Class and a Half are nearly identical in terms of how they are implemented. There are some rules about what powers come from the Supporting class based on the Primary class and obviously the level is halved and the EXP cost is commensurately lower (but still based on the rules for Multiclass)... but in terms of the raw mechanics of it: How you generate HP, choose BtH, etc. They are pretty much the same whether it is a true Multiclass or Class and a Half, IMO.

Anyhow, that's just my take on what I'm reading.
And, no, this isn't me trying to backdoor my way into multiclassing Hunidark. :P I'm happy with him as a single class archetype.

Yeah that's the right of it SR. There may other optional rules out there re: multi classing but as it stands you either go with say a Fighter/Cleric from the get go, with slower progression, averaged HD etc or you go Class and a Half with say a "Crusader" whose a Fighter with elements of Cleric or a Sister Militant whose a Cleric with Fighter elements.

Open to any reconstruction of concepts at this point, but based on my own reading also - class dips aren't an option down the line.

Hoping to get the intro post up sometime o'er the weekend :)

Ok, I might want to take a look at this 'class and a half' thing, making Rannock a primary Cleric / secondary Fighter. If it turns up to be too much of a hassle, I'll just go Cleric :P

Hoping to get the intro post up sometime o'er the weekend :)

Great! I'm very excited to get this ball rolling. I think it's going to be a LOT of AD&D flashbacks for me. :)

To that end, I should really dive into the Monsters & Treasures book. I want to see if they've made the more powerful undead utterly terrifying again (like they were in AD&D) or if they've 'blunted' them.

Hoo hoo! The higher undead are nasty. Not quite as bad as AD&D but enough to make you think 3 times before dancing with them.

Energy Drain has no save and is permanent unless you get a Wish (hollow laugh) or Restoration (which is achievable) but you have a ticking clock on getting that spell (measured in days) to restore levels or they become unalterably permanent. And one Restoration returns a single level. So if you have to pay for the spell... OUCH.

It's vicious. I love it.

EDIT: I might be wrong on the save thing. In the Monsters book it doesn't list a save but in the PHB it says that there is a save from Energy Drain. That said... it's still pretty nasty.

MUGA - Make Undead Great Again. :P

Now I want to see a vampire in a MUGA cap.

Alas won't be popping that post up just yet - been dealing with some offshore issues (I run a wellhead integrity team in Oil & Gas here in UK) which has stymied my progress.

So any of you seeking to nail down builds and backgrounds will have a few days (Mondays is always a right off).

@Rannock: Taking Fighter as your supporting class in Class-And-A-Half gains you weapon specialisation (+1 to hit, +1 damage), but he must specialise in a weapon allowed by the principal class (guessing likely warhammer). You do not gain combat dominance or extra attack.

So for Cleric XP+Half XP of Fighter per level you'd net better Bonus to Hit (BtH) but HD per level would remain d8.

So basically a better fighting Cleric - pretty much does what it says on the tin.

It is so rude when work decides to body-block gaming. :) Good luck with all that and we'll see you in a few days hopefully!

Just checking in. How's everybody doing?

Doin' just fine, though I think work swallowed up our GM.

Lots of work on my end, but doing good. Been delving a bit further into Keep on the Borderlands on my (admittedly short) spare time. How about yourself? :)

Work has smacked me in the head this week as well. Hope to get my backstory and game connection up tomorrow.

Yeah ...got Wrecked by work this week as well. Still sorting out my barbarian....

More work headaches o'er the weekend folks... planning on taking some time off in a week or so, might be then before I get the energy to really focus on posting. Appreciate the patience - take your collective time getting things readied. Those who are champing at the bit - my apologies - want to make this one as good as it can be.

We are here sir! No worries and no hurries.

Same here. :)

Sorry I haven't worked on the background more. I've got some ideas, but really not familiar with the system has stymied me a bit. I'll put the basics here, but will develop more as we play.

* Spiro has a twin sister named Stella who was blessed by a strong Arcane bent. They were close growing up as Stella was a bit bookish, and Spiro was all muscle and bone.

* Stella is the opposite of Spiro in that she looks elven, but has Human qualities, and abilities.

* Knowing they couldn't really pay for Stella to attend a Magic Academy to pay for her studies they worked out a deal to trade Spiro's muscle and combat ability for an opportunity for Stella to study under the esteemed Gormrenn Geldzauberer.

* Spiro was bored with life on the farm anyway, so he jumped at the chance to both help his sister advance her studies, and get a little adventuring in.

* Spiro has been working with Gormrenn for a few years now and enjoys being pointed at something to do, then left to his own means to accomplish them.

* Things are Okay back at the family farm as the twins have a couple of older siblings, and several younger ones that don't have the same itch for adventuring that Stella and Spiro have.

Alright gang - am back. Have a couple of days off work upcoming so plan to break the back of this prep and get things going this week sometime.

I've taken it slow over the weekend as was totally burned out from work, but have managed to populate the Campaign Notes with some background stuff on the campaign setting I've settled on: Pelinore - essentially TSR UK's own world from back in the day.

Stuff is mainly on religion and gods of the domain of Pelinore - as a follower of a god (or gods) can curry favour and gain bonuses with an offering or sacrifice so worth thinking about patron deities (even if your not a cleric!).

List is incomplete at the minute and the core gods will all have key right ups for them. Monstrous gods will be drawn from C&C's books and also traditional sources like Blibdoolpoolp etc.

Anyhoo - will be cracking on the morrow and putting up lots more stuff (as well as looking over characters and answering any queries etc)

Appreciate the patience :)

Hey BD, don't stress about it.

I know you are really into all the pre-planning stuff, but if I am allowed a suggestion, I think sometimes it is just better to just get into the thick of it with some Gameplay, and build as we go? Answering questions as they come up? Might break things down into more easily 'digested' chunks. Just a thought.

Hey folks, I've been working on some personal stuff recently and it's going to take me longer than I thought to get back into the saddle and posting regularly, at least two weeks, I think. GM, please bot me as needed. I will be coming back. I just need some time to change some habits of mine.

Sorry to spring this on ya just as you get a chance to post, BD. Talk about terrible timing, eh?

@Rannock - yup noted mate. I do indeed love all the pre-prep, but can be guilty of painting myself into a corner also - this pre-amble to the campaign has went through [i]many[/]i iterations lol.

Agree - have the crux of the intro to the campaign done, so will endeavour to get something up later today.

@Adam: No worries mate - I'll do my best with Ping/Zeebo til you're back in the fold.

@Hûƞidark: Kordd added to pantheon, albeit with an additional "D" to make him cooler lol.

@Spiro: That origin works nicely - there is both a Magic-User's School - a community based enterprise, and the famed White Order - a rigid "guild" of good aligned Wizards. Either would work for your sis. The Order has high membership costs (1000gp per level per year), while the School relies more on students earning their keep through scrolls, recovered spell books etc for their archives (a pay as you go type scenario). Either could explain why Spiro is adventuring.

@All remember to consider Background Skills. All characters start with 1 (possibly 2 depending on backstory etc).

Based on Spiro's background his would (most likely) be:

Farming (Wisdom): The farming skill reflects a character’s innate understanding of growing domesticated plants and trees, along with an ability to gauge seasons and general weather patterns if they are within a terrain similar to their homeland.

Rannock most likely you'd have at least one of these (possibly combo of 2?)

Appraisal/Bartering (Charisma): A character with this skill is well versed in determining the general worth of non-magical items as well as the discrete techniques for haggling without giving offence. The successful use of this skill allows a modification of 10% of an item’s cost per bonus point of charisma the skilled appraiser has.

Blacksmith (Strength): The skill of blacksmithing provides the character with the ability to forge simple tools or make small repairs to simple metal items. Weapons cannot be forged or significantly repaired with this skill, as such falls under the Weaponcraft skill. However, armours can be repaired and simple (i.e. non-articulated) pieces can be forged or repaired.

Rannock most likely you'd have at least one of these (possibly combo of 2?)

Appraisal/Bartering (Charisma): A character with this skill is well versed in determining the general worth of non-magical items as well as the discrete techniques for haggling without giving offence. The successful use of this skill allows a modification of 10% of an item’s cost per bonus point of charisma the skilled appraiser has.

Blacksmith (Strength): The skill of blacksmithing provides the character with the ability to forge simple tools or make small repairs to simple metal items. Weapons cannot be forged or significantly repaired with this skill, as such falls under the Weaponcraft skill. However, armours can be repaired and simple (i.e. non-articulated) pieces can be forged or repaired.

I like that! :D

Character is coming along and almost done.
Adding equipment next.

@Hûƞidark: Kordd added to pantheon, albeit with an additional "D" to make him cooler lol.

Outstanding! I read through the God list and thought... "Uh, OK, so who do I worship and how to do I have re-write my backstory to make it fit?"

Thanks for understanding BD. I'll catch up when I can. :)

@Hûƞidark: Kordd added to pantheon, albeit with an additional "D" to make him cooler lol.

@Spiro: That origin works nicely - there is both a Magic-User's School - a community based enterprise, and the famed White Order - a rigid "guild" of good aligned Wizards. Either would work for your sis. The Order has high membership costs (1000gp per level per year), while the School relies more on students earning their keep through scrolls, recovered spell books etc for their archives (a pay as you go type scenario). Either could explain why Spiro is adventuring.

Nothing but the best for Stella. Spiro has to work very hard indeed to keep her tuition up. She also works part time in a tavern to pay her living expenses. This along with a small stipend when the crops come in keep them cash strapped but off the streets.

Thanks for understanding BD. I'll catch up when I can. :)

Hope everything turns out for the best AdamWarnock. And no worries, we are not going anywhere - I mean how could we? I cannot be the shortest one around - preposterous!

Under-Dungeon Master Black Dow wrote:

@Hûƞidark: Kordd added to pantheon, albeit with an additional "D" to make him cooler lol.

Outstanding! I read through the God list and thought... "Uh, OK, so who do I worship and how to do I have re-write my backstory to make it fit?"

There was a/is a God of Vigour - Dayleeh from the original list, but wasn't doing it for me, so kept Kord(d) - better fit as the mighty son of Tarmenel the Sky God.

Thanks for understanding BD. I'll catch up when I can. :)

Anytime mate - hope all works out and we'll be here waiting :)

@Scranford: Love the idea of Spiro taking any work that's going. Pair of siblings working hard to live a dream bigger than the crops and fields. The life of peasants and farmers in the frontiers is tough - lots of beasties and bogles to make life tougher (as you'll see when you get too Haranshire... lol)

I'll finish up my barbarian tonite...just got back from four days out of town

No worries bud, you can always join on the road to Haranshire.

@All: Enjoying the intros and interplay :)

I'm not going to police Encumbrance in draconian fashion, but keeping a ballpark on your ER vs EV would be good to see on everyone's characters. For me it was always something I never minded tracking as a player, so it tends to factor into my games.

I read about ER vs EV... didn't realise I get a bonus for the primes though. Very cool!

Rolling coin

3d4 + 2d4 ⇒ (2, 4, 3) + (3, 4) = 16

divide by two: 80 pieces of local currency!

I know I'm taking a little poetic license here, but I kind of thought that Spiro though growing up on a farm has a fascination with mechanical contraptions and is a convenient guinea Pig for Brother Gristle (Q). Feel free to modify as desired.

Hope it is ok for me to ask, but I am having some trouble visualizing this scene - Spiro is wearing a Plate Mail which is a mechanical gizmo. Is that it?

It was just a Role-playing exercise. He uses studded leather armor at this time and is more an archer. I just made up a mad scientist type guy who uses Spiro as a guinea pig for his inventions. Spiro is now returning the prototype to him before adventuring onward. Sorry for the confusion...

10th Edition Kickstarter soon... removing OGL references.

Cool!

It was just a Role-playing exercise. He uses studded leather armor at this time and is more an archer. I just made up a mad scientist type guy who uses Spiro as a guinea pig for his inventions. Spiro is now returning the prototype to him before adventuring onward. Sorry for the confusion...

No harm, no foul hehe - don't mind the confused dwarf.

And on that note, who is Zeebo? I feel like I am missing something here.

Salsa's character is Ping (gnome female). She is trying to avoid some folks so she travels in disguise as Zeebo Softfeather (halfling male).

Because Salsa is dealing with some RL stuff, BD is botting Zeebo a bit.

And it's going fairly well all things considered. :)

The real life stuff. I'm making progress and I've got a couple of weeks off coming up that I'm planning on using to keep things up.

Starting Gold: 2d10 ⇒ (4, 10) = 14 x 10 = 140gold

Going through my purchases list, it would seem just with armor + weapons I am at my ER limit. Example (My ER is 14):

Scale Mail EV4
Large Wooden Shield EV4
Dagger x2 (to throw) EV2
Morningstar (main weapon) EV3

And I am at EV13.

A backpack is EV2, and puts me over the ER. Are characters expected to be Burdened most of the time?

From reading into it further, would seem that encumbrance is a big (contentious) thing in C&C.

Indications are you get burdened quick, however some comments cite that "worn" equipment (armour/backpacks etc) counts as 1 EV less that if just carried. Need to confirm this (at work so sans Rule Books), but makes sense.

Someone else noted all they did was add +5 ER to all medium races and +3 ER to all small. This combined with the "wearing" rule makes it much more manageable?

So that would put Rannock @ ER of 19 (14+5) and EV of 11 (Shield and Armour now only EV3 each) - gives him some wriggle room for carry items etc.

Ok, I had no idea there was so much debate around Encumbrance - already learning something about C&C! :D

Thanks for having looked into it. And then just let us know how you want to do it.

EV11 vs ER19 definitely looks better.

Not to be 'That Guy", but as a fellow halfling and a member of a rather secretive criminal organization, I would feel that Mos might have some misgivings about Zeebo. Even if he discovered Zeebo was not what s/he appeared, he would keep it to himself and would try to figure out the why and who of this person. I want to check with everyone concerned to see if this was a viable threat of intrigue that Mos could follow, or if it might be seen as meta-gaming as 'I' know the truth. Just some thoughts.

I'd say up to the GM, but I'm all for it. :)