Sorry should have seen that off course. Was just surprised that Davor was deciding to roll for this and I think the situation never came up.
I would agree that Davor shouldn't typically be our face for Diplomacy, but it definitely worked out well for us this time!
Since this is PbP and people post at different times, should we decide on a default party face for Diplomacy checks now, and then just assume--moving forward--that any rolls from other players are aid checks, even if they come in before the chosen face?
Father Kerndrew has a +6 so is definitely in the running for party face. Anybody else have a high Diplomacy bonus?
I am fine with Father playing as the face. Shalissa has the same bonus.
Usually I would just go with a fluid approach, provided the GM is willing to just handle each situation the way it makes more sense and do not letting strict mechanics to block the campaign flowing forward.
Not sure what you mean by being more fluid.
I don't mind the face being whoever has a reasonable Diplo (or other relevant) score and the other posting aids later.
I also don't mind anybody just posting what shoudl be said, and then later SOmebody with the skill to implement it can either provide the diplo roll to it (and his own few lines) or disagree with this being the party position.
What I don't agree with everybody just posting diplo rolls and choosing the highest to allow a success.
If you really want a fast flowing game I am also fine with whoever is the first to react to a diplo situation posting the line and borrowing the skill roll from a competent character, but that would definitely need to be signed off by everybody
For instance Father Kerndrew is paying very dearly for these Diplo points and should be able to reap the benefit from them.
Also Technically the first diplo roll with the aid from Father Kerndrew was success and he is now talking to you. I consider Shalissas attempt to be a different roll trying to get him even friendlier.
By being fluid I meant to let people engage with the NPCs naturally, and then sort out the rolls in whatever way it makes sense to you. Something in line with your last paragraphs.
If we have to agree on who has to talk or roll and then wait for that person to perform the talk or the roll in any particular order, the rigid mechanics that exists for Diplomacy will soon detract the attention from the main focus which is roleplaying a conversation with an NPC.
The rules were created for a situation where everybody can talk and roll at the same time with instant feedback from the GM on when and how to roll, add good RP bonuses or aid rolls. For PbP we need to be a bit more lenient with the rules and be fluid with this kind of encounters if we want them to be more than a set of skill rolls.
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I could see us implementing a loose rule where the first to post of Shalissa or I is always considered the "lead" diplomat, and everyone else who posts a roll is contributing an aid to that leader. But a blanket "first come first served" could hurt the gameplay if people with a low Diplomacy are ready to contribute to the conversation, but need to wait for Shalissa or I to post first so that they don't accidentally become the leader of the conversation.
We want a process that a) encourages people to post whenever they have something to contribute and b) logically allows the PCs best suited to lead the action to lead it, regardless of when they're available to post.
As Shalissa points out, this is a problem unique to PbP. If we're sitting around the table, we discuss our approach briefly, everybody makes their rolls together, and the whole interaction is done in 5 min or less, with no confusion over who's aiding and who's leading.
We got lucky in this case; Davor's roll was good, so him leading the Diplomacy worked out. But he could have rolled a "2" just as easily as that "19," and that would have probably ended with us angering the "crab" instead of endearing us. If Father Kerndrew rolls a "2" on the die, it's actually an "8," which is easily boosted by an aid roll to be at least a "10," which may not advance things, but at least it doesn't set us back.
I think that makes sense.
That is exactly what I meant, Kerndrew exposed it much more clearly.
Sorry for confusing things. I just figured that nobody had tried to talk with the puppeteer so I would. Got a really lucky roll....
In the future I guess I'll leave that work for those that know what they're doing?
As Kerndrew said, whoever has something to contribute is free to talk so please continue to do so.
But diplo is one of the rolls where bad rolls have bad consequences and you are not allowed unlimited retries so its better when those who have the highest skills try those.
There's also nothing wrong with making an aid roll before the diplo leader speaks up.
Nothing wrong with that sequence of rolls, especially in a PbP environment. Maybe we as players need to just be a little more attentive to including the "aid" designation when we roll if we know we're not the best PC at the skill.
Sorry for the delay, I was unsure what I wanted Pezcock to answer and now my daugther is ill and I dont really have the head free give a deatilled answer.
But I think you guys can at least roll Diplomacy DC probably 19 in the meantime.
Updated the map.
I understand you will follow Pezcocks suggestion and will post next encounter tomorrow. (I need to think a bit and setup a few things)
If you want to discuss anything else with the Birdman fell free to continue to post.
Couldn't find info on what the language Pidgin is. I assume its some basic form of Polyglott or common?
I think Pidgin would would be an amalgamation of Common and Polyglott.
It is a linguistic concept to denote a very basic version of any language that usually happens naturally when two cultures enter into contact, specially on colonial processes (I had a linguist girlfriend for a time :P).
Try to figure out how many cannibals are there, and if they have any special defenses to their hideout.
I have a question to the group:
Aycenias original purpose is to send you on a lengthy side quest, which adds nothing to the main act. Since you are well ahead of the XP Curve I would suggest we skip that quest and move forward with the main story about your treacherous captain and passenger.
Or do you rather want too see the whole adventure.
PbP is a very long run for an AP (6 or more years perhaps), I am happy with cutting side content, repetitive combats and anything in general you consider non essential. It basically increases the odds we manage to see the higher level content. It seems a good trade-off to me, to increase the odds we complete the adventure.
I agree for the most part. I would add, though, that if you know the side quest or extra content is particularly flavorful for one or more PCs, I could see erring to the side of including it.
That or if it has some bomb treasure. ;)
What Father Kerndrew said. Side adventures have their place if they add to the story or bring in a needed piece of gear. If not...then Im fine skipping it.
I agree.
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Fine Thanks well than we wont head out to heal the black northern island.
Heal an island? That doesn't sound like a minor side quest!
Well I did not say small, just completely disconnected. And it would take probably another month.
I am a bit busy rnovating the homeoffice this weekend, but its mostly a discussion between the party right now so that should not be a problem. Will be done by Monday and also be able to answer questions, but no big development posts.
Wow! I start the battle with two natural ones! Mine and the GM's....
Hope that isn't an omen!
And for some humor, in one of my other games I found out that you get a different avatar (temporarily) if you have the word smurf in a post....
Oh man, imagine those 1-1 would have been 20-20!
Besides, funny thing about the smurfs xD
Do you know about other easter eggs like that in the forum?
No. I hope there are others though. This one is funny!
Smurf!
@ Davor
In order to let play go faster I let everybody act at the same time between enemy groups. And sometimes when a few players posted I try to give an update and mark only the people left in the turn.
But no bug thing, this is easy to catch, when I track the result.
The hard life of being a GM, you pass your days losing encounter after encounter, and if for once you manage to win... well... Game Over, ouch! :P
One hit? I got hit by a javelin for 5 at the beginning of the battle. I just forgot to update my status bar. :(
You are fo course right, but afterwards nothing really connected.
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I agree. Watching the numbers in that battle we got lucky!
But that's a good thing! No TPK, the game continues!
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I will prepare a few things over the weekend and would like to post the setup for your approach on sunday or monday.
Please continue to discuss to find a common understanding how you approach the camp (or if you want to continue to go guerilla for now)
Also The more detailed your plan is spelt out beforehand the more lenient I am with things like allowing additional action in battle preparations.
FOr instance in the last battle when Shalissa would have spet out beforehand that she will buff Davor and Gregor there would have been enough time when the Vannibals approach the scene for her to do it, before the Intitative is rolled and I would have allowed it.
I have posted the map of the camp in the battle map, but hid all buildings but the lighthouse yet. Please be aware that your NPCs have never really been there, so they don'tknow any details apart from the height of the Lighthouse (3 storeys).
Does anyone has further ideas besides what Shalissa proposed? Does anyone support her proposal? XD
My thoughts run still towards going to get the rest of our entourage, bringing the camp to Pezcocks beach. Then moving all to the lighthouse and a full scale assault.
my 2 cents.
That would be the most logical approach, but from prior conversations with the GM I doubt he will allow us any advantage from joining NPCs with us.
As I understood having Pezock join the combat was already pretty exceptional.
I think there is a misunderstanding here.
I think bringing everybody on the "exploration" would have made that part completely boring, which i discouraged it, but if you felt overwhelmed by the enemy forces it was always an option to take some people with you.
But the way I felt it, you were always more than able to handle everything so you felt no need yourself. Given this fact I was also a bit nervous about sending Pezock along, but you made an effort and so it would have been unfair not to send him along. No encounter so far has been made stronger just because of Pezock.
But now you are supposed to take combat to a force about 3-4 times your group + an enemy hero + some unknown woman, so bringing more people to come along is one of the logical conclusions.
To repeat what I said in the recruiting, here are my rules as a GM for how I would like to run an adventure.
1. Whatever is done by anybody should feel realistic, this includes my NPCs. So when the cannibal said there will be 20 fighters and you know he is not lying, there will be roughly unless some story element was in place which was completely independent of your actions. So you bringing more people will jot change that humber.
2. Making Plans is always rewarded. I hate nothing more that to make a plan as a PC and then have the GM use his Knowledge of my plan to make things harder. and on top of it all tell me that it was my fault, for making a stupid plan.
So if you come up with a solution to a problem, the worst thing that will happen, that it will not make much of a difference. And normally it will make some good effect. This will definitely trump rule number 2. so If you come up with a plan which makes the boss fight a cakewalk, I will let you have the triumph of having done something smart.
3. Don't use out of character knowledge to justify behaviour which is not in character. Gregor has some rougher tenedencies but even he has played himself as a mostly good-hearted character, shown by his behaviour towards Jask and others. All the others I would consider clearly on the nice side so far.
So if you start to commit truly evil acts just because you believe that the designer wouldn't put an artefact in the scenario unless you need it, you are A) very much mistaken about Paizos design philosophy and B) Karma will start pushing back.
Note, if you want to roleplay your character turning into a ruthless treasure hunter the more ancient treasures he finds because he is corrupted by all the gold just tell me about it, roleplay it out and thats also fine.
4. In general I try to find a difficulty of encounters where combats provides a little excitement. I am trying to be very careful about this, because nobody wants a TPK. Actually the results have been mostly the opposite. When I have strengtened the encounters a bit you have breezed through them, while you had troubles with the one I run as the book told me too.
So to conclude that lengthy rambling, as long as you try to come up with a solution while thinking like your character would all will be fine. and hopefully also all will be interesting.
If you have further questions to any of these feel free to ask I have plenty of illustrating examples but this post is long enough already.
you have a correct assessment of Gregors personality. When I created him , in my minds eye...A. He was a bounty hunter. so that made him a little beyond the law in his mind, and someone not afraid of doing something 'wrong' to make it right. (thus NG)
B. But in the end he is a good man just bordering on the anti-hero stereotype. he looks to do right, but not afraid of breaking a few eggs in the process.
The way I see it. 'metagaming' The designers intended us to be 3rd level before attacking the lighthouse...thus the side adventure for the Nymph. Its not in character for us to do the side adventure. so we are attacking into a situation that is slightly above our paygrade.
we need an equalizer.
the other npc's would do that.
Ok, let's bring them then! The more the merrier they say :D
In order to keep things simple we can ask them to take charge on fighting in the outskirts of the camp, removing guards and blocking the arrival of cannibal patrols to reinforce the camp.
We can infiltrate the lighthouse meanwhile and remove leadership.
Sorry I didn't post more this weekend. Family....
Anyway, while I'm not against bringing the camp closer and possibly asking for assistance from the NPC's, that does decrease the chance of any stealth working. And outnumbered 2+ to 1 makes it hard to see a simple, frontal assault working without significant casualties.
My plan for using fire was to cause a distraction, not burn down the village. Pick a building, preferably not one that looks like a home, and start a fire that would threaten it but be fairly easy to put out. Once they respond to the fire, start a combat with missile weapons first and then move in quick. If there is a massive response, say all 20+ and the leader and whatever the "witch" is, run after doing whatever damage we can. Was going to ask the other casters if they had any available magic to slow a pursuit? Entangle would be too much to ask for!
So as Shalissa indicated, maybe they could "handle" things on the fringes? Any with bows could possibly keep distance and add to the confusion by targeting enemies that weren't in the direct melee?
That said, Davor isn't evil and I have no plans to play him totally ruthless. He is neutral and a worshiper of Pharasma. Life and death are important to him, as is the proper handling of a dead body. He does intend to bury the bodies that were "used" after the need for them is done. Now that we're facing humanoid enemies I guess I needed a reminder that he would be saying a form of "last rites", even if it was his sneak attack that killed the enemy. He believes that Pharasma only judges a soul by whether or not they followed the path that their deity wanted. Good or evil isn't part of that picture.
My thoughts for an assault, isnt to go just straight in. I want to sneak around and come in from the SE side, not down the path to the outlying building. Set up an ambush point for those coming in from the path. and one for those coming in through the narrow trees. I figured wed discuss how to do it after we moved the camp.
Remember among the npcs. we have a bard, a cleric, a rogue, a ranger and a fighter (i think)
Ive put some markers on the map of the plan of assault. and objectives.
if we split the NPC's Pezock, Isharou and Gelik to one side and Aerys, Jask and Sasha on the other side to keep us from being flanked in defensive position and the group move from building to building seizing real estate and dealing with threats as the 'point of the spear' so to speak....how does this sound?
exact specifics on how and using distractions can still be applied.
Hadn't thought about coming in through the trees. I forgot that the GM indicated that we could move through the trees....
No need to light a fire then!
A Bard and a Cleric? So we've got Bless and Inspire Courage to buff the group when we have a hard battle starting? Great!!!
The plan seems good to me Gregor.
Davor's plan is also ok if the group prefers to pursue that.
Thus, we set the people in the trees and we emerge from the SE into their camp.
Let's try to sneak, I know we are not capable as a group, but if we keep Father and Shalissa at some distance, Davor and Gregor can come quite over them before we are discovered.
Father Kerndrew is obviously on the side of law and order, though his background clouds that a bit. He may not always remember the "right" way to do things, though if pointed out, he'll of course come into line.
And he'll never take an evil action himself, obviously, but I never intend him to stop another PC doing what they want to do, unless it's downright evil. Defacing dead cannibals? Eh, he worships Iomedae, not Pharasma, and war is war. Gregor's intent made sense.
I'm good with the plan!
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Good. Gregor and I sneak in ahead of the noisier group. Hopefully this time I don't find another stinging bug and can surprise our target! We can signal the attack once we've scouted and move in for our attack! Reinforcements should only be a double move behind us....
So the plan still stands?
id say yes, except we go now. not waiting for an optimal time.
and have the flanking guard groups be
Pezock and Gelik / Jask, Isharou and Aerys
Agreed; we now have an ally--under our protection--who's at risk. We can't delay further.
Are we waiting for Kerndrew and Davor to roll Stealth or you need something more from us Kulko?
If a way forward is needed, I propose we follow the reeking smell to the close by hut.
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I am currently rebuilding the homeoffice to suit the new needs of my wifes new jobs, so I have little time during the Weekend. And so I thoguht I give Kerndrew and Davor to post their actions on monday before pushing onwards.
That will probably be the normal state of the game for the next month or so.