Hells Rebels (Inactive)

Game Master Daniel Penfold 351

I am not planning a combat maneuver build. Straight monk maybe, but not this build. I grabbed grapple just to lock down casters if I need to.

Looks like enough combat power that I'm going to shy away from that. I think I will go Warlock Vigilante. I won't be the best caster around, but as a prepared caster with access to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list (up to 6th level) I should be able to do a lot of things, given a little prep time. And, much as I hear they're not that great, the Mystic Bolts ability looks like fun. I'll also have a lot of skill points. Any skills in particular that we'd need? Also, GM, do you allow use of the tiefling variant ability chart?

Hello, everyone! Looking forward to quashing the wicked ambitions of tyrants with you!

Okay, so, which version of Til would the group prefer?

Rogue-light, with no trap capabilities but focused on a couple of combat maneuvers?
Rogue-forward, with full trap capabilities?
Full BAB light fighter, combat maneuver heavy?

...
I agree the group seems BAB heavy, so one of the Rogue builds is going to be the least duplicative, giving more people a chance to shine. Probably the traditional Rogue, actually, since focusing on a couple of combat maneuvers stays pretty close to the grapple shifter and Paladin/Monk likely capabilities. Though my maneuvers are Steal and Disarm.

Well then, see how the spirit moves you as the last pieces come together, and surprise us? :)

I dabble in a bit of tripping, since my focus weapon is the whip, but in this, as in all things, I’m too much of a dilettante to worry about my toes being stepped on.

Looks like enough combat power that I'm going to shy away from that. I think I will go Warlock Vigilante. I won't be the best caster around, but as a prepared caster with access to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list (up to 6th level) I should be able to do a lot of things, given a little prep time. And, much as I hear they're not that great, the Mystic Bolts ability looks like fun. I'll also have a lot of skill points. Any skills in particular that we'd need?

Well, Tilorean will probably cover our gap in Bluff, but the more the merrier! Two of our former players did great and terrible things together with a few revoltingly good prevarications. Otherwise I think we're mainly lacking in wizard-y stuff at the moment: Kn (arcana), Spellcraft, Craft (alchemy) (if that's something anyone's into)...

Speaking of last details, we’ve been handling the Rebellion subsystem from the players’ guide with a very light touch – we’re only going to hit rank 4 at the end of the next week of game time – but we are using it (gently) in the background.

We’re at rank 2, so if our intrepid GM didn’t mention it already, that’s a bonus skill point each. At the moment, Ryker’s filling the Sentinel role, and Adonara’s about to resume hers as Strategist after helping out with a recruitment drive.

That leaves the roles of Demagogue, Partisan, Recruiter, and Spymaster open. Someone will have to double up, which unfortunately only stacks for Recruiters.
We also have a team of guttersnipes / Baker St. Irregulars that could stand to get a new leader.

The current sheet for all that is here.
If your eyes have already glazed over and you're just interested in a trickle of little bonuses now and again to go with roleplaying downtime, I’ve been mostly handling the numbers, because I’m one of the few lost souls who takes a certain comfort in sums and spreadsheets.

HP rolls:

2d8 ⇒ (4, 6) = 10
2d8 ⇒ (4, 2) = 6
2d8 ⇒ (1, 3) = 4
2d8 ⇒ (2, 4) = 6

Are we taking the better or the average of the 2? I'm hoping the better one.

Yeah hit points are roll twice and take hihest.

Oooohhh . . .. I had missed that until I was given an incentive to look for it.

Level 2: 2d8 - 3 ⇒ (6, 3) - 3 = 6
Level 3: 2d8 - 1 ⇒ (1, 4) - 1 = 4
Level 4: 2d8 - 2 ⇒ (2, 4) - 2 = 4
Level 5: 2d8 - 1 ⇒ (5, 1) - 1 = 5
Level 6: 2d8 - 3 ⇒ (3, 7) - 3 = 7

Nets me 1 point more than the average die I had assumed. Okay.

And Til absolutely has Bluff. Doesn't mean the dice will let him cover it, but, hey.

Let's see, officer positions.

Demagogue: C or H
Partisan: S or W
Recruiter: -
Sentinel: ANY
Spymaster: D or I

For Sentinel bonuses:
Adonara has 2 +3s and a +2; I/W
Bachu has a +3 and 2 +2s; S
Bran has a +4, a +3, and a +2; S
Ragnar shows a +3 and 2 +2s; S/W
Ryker has a +4 and 2 +2s; S
Til has a +5, a +2 an a +1; D

So, it looks like Adonara is "best" (most consistent) for the Sentinel swing bonus option.

Til looks best for Spymaster at +5.

Bran looks best for Demagogue at +3.

Makes Ryker the best for Partisan at +4.

Leaving Bachu and Ragnar to cover Recruiting and Strategist.

Or am I overthinking this? I also don't know if everyone's fully leveled and gear bought, either, which could change something along the way.

Take the average of the hit point rolls please.

Take the average of the hit point rolls please.

Ouch. That's gonna hurt.

9 averages to 5
5 averages to 3
6 averages to 3
6 averages to 3
10 averages to 5

That's 6 below the half+1 default. <shrug>

Done.

Edit: Also just updated the profile and background for the pure Rogue version.

Looks like enough combat power that I'm going to shy away from that. I think I will go Warlock Vigilante. I won't be the best caster around, but as a prepared caster with access to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list (up to 6th level) I should be able to do a lot of things, given a little prep time. And, much as I hear they're not that great, the Mystic Bolts ability looks like fun. I'll also have a lot of skill points. Any skills in particular that we'd need? Also, GM, do you allow use of the tiefling variant ability chart?

Warlocks have infinite thrown touch attacks.

So, two-weapon fighting should work. I don’t know if there’s a way to get dex to damage.

Social side should be great fun in a campaign in a single city.

Ok, here’s Ouachitonian’s character. Still gotta go back and tweak one of two things (mostly the hit points, per GM above. Man my roles were ugly.). Spymaster would probably be the best role for me.

Okay, so Fulk's +6 for Dex trumps Til's +5 for Spymasterm dropping Til into the recruiting or strategy bucket. <grin>

So, how is Bran signing up for the Silver Ravens?

So the current group have been actively recruiting and the new players would have heard about this and know that there is a possibility of joining at the Longroads Coffee House.

So, it looks like Adonara is "best" (most consistent) for the Sentinel swing bonus option.

*Puts on indescribable chaotic hat.* Well, you know what they say about consistency and hobgoblins. :)

The Sentinel stat modifiers only apply to Event checks, so they’re a bit more situational – so far, I think we’ve had an even split of calm/eventful weeks in the rebellion. And, like I said, it’s a really low-key background thing as we’ve played it so far.

Unless it works out that the roles folks might actually want would sort out really, really pear-shaped that way, I was really hoping to pick up Strategist again for Adonara, just because it suits my vision of her as a plotter of plots, schemer of schemes, and a bit of an outsider compared to locals who might have a much more personal stake in what’s happening in Kintargo.

Does anyone else have much of a preference? If not, how’s this sound:
Fulk as Spymaster, as he mentioned, Adonara as Strategist, then Ryker as Partisan, Bran as Demagogue, Ragnar as Sentinel, and Bachu and Tilorean being all charismatic and Recruiting?

Or are you leaving us, Ryker, as it occurs to me I saw Daniel mention?

Speaking of recruiting, as Daniel mentioned, for joining the Silver Ravens, we’ve been trying to build some rapport with other suspicious groups in the city.

Bran being pissed off about everything and crying ‘smash the system’! is spot on.

His playlist is mostly Rage Against the Machine, Fugazi and Run the Jewels.

Born with insight and a raised fist
A witness to the slit wrist
As we, move into '4715
Still no way to survive
Ya got to know, ya got to know
That when I say go, go, go!
Amp up and amplify
Defy, I'm a brother with a furious mind
Action must be taken
We don't need the key, we'll break in

Something must come soon
About vengeance, a badge and a Thrune
Cause I'll rip the lash, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to Rage Against 'em!
Fist in ya face in the place and I'll drop the style clearly...
Know your enemy!

Know your enemy!

Yeah!
Hey yo, and get with this... ugh!

Word, is, born!
Fight the war, F*@+ the norm!
Now I got no patience
So sick of complacence
With the D, the E, the F, the I, the A, the N, the C, the E
Mind of a revolutionary, so clear the lane
The finger to the land of the chains
WHAT?! The "land of the free?"
Whoever told you that is your enemy!
Now something must come soon
About vengeance, a badge and a Thrune
Cause I'll rip the mic, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to Rage Against 'em!
Now action must be taken
We don't need the key, we'll BREAK IN!!

I've got no patience now...
So sick of complacence, now...
I've got no patience, now...
So sick of complacence now..
Sick of, sick of, sick of, sick of...you..
Time...has...come...to...PAY!!!
Know your enemy!

Come on!
Yes, I know my enemies!
They're the hellknights who taught me to fight me!
Compromise! Conformity! Assimilation! Submission!
Ignorance! Hypocrisy! Brutality! The elite!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!

All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!
All of which are Chelaxian dreams!

I am leaving :( For the record, I'm actually exiting PbP entirely, not just this game. Since it is a personal decision and life hasn't forced me out (for which I am immensely grateful!), I'm just phasing my games out at natural points.

Just in case anyone missed this and still can't get on.

Here is the information concerning the outage today and not being able to sign into Paizo. They appear to be back up now, but you have to go into your settings and manually delete you cookies associated with Paizo first to be able to sign in. (May take several attempts. Mine took deleting the cookies three times before it stuck.

Error with Signing-in Post

If anyone needs assistance or questions I am on Discord (Tyranius#2300)

No worries, GM, welcome back! Ryker's got his eye on C16 next :)

Took cookie clearing for me, I was lucky that a friend emailed me about it! Idk how long it would take me to check the boards without being able to log in...

Hi all, not feeling very well at the moment. Hoping to catch up with posting in the next few days.

No worries, hope you feel better soon.

Hello, everyone,

I'm dreadfully sorry for the radio silence over the past couple of weeks. Work has been a bit hellish (ha! and not in the sort of way that could be corrected relatively easily by judicious application of sword and spell :/), so I was mainly running damage control on all systems. I'm loosely aligned with education, so my priority was keeping it together as best I could for my students.

Which is all to say that I hope I'm back now, if I haven't exasperated you all beyond endurance for dealing with a flaky elf. (I should also probably not make a quip about pastry and tasty elf tarts. ... Dammit. ;) )

I'll post in gameplay in a few.

Re Gameplay: No worries Adonara! I'm happy to keep trucking along with y'all, but I'd also wager the new recruits are chomping at the bit to get started as well!

In case anyone is just following the discussion until it's their moment...

GM Penfold just posted in the gameplay that new characters should head on down to the coffee house and introduce themselves.

:D

:D

Sorry I am so late to this, but I lost the acceptance when Pazio was down.

My laptop went belly up a couple of days ago, and I am using the wifes, but it does not have office, and the office trial, just killed off my attempts to load in so bear with me as I do things by hand for updates on character levels. :(

But to get him up to your level specs on HP and all that, I will do the rolls here.

HP Level 2: 2d8 ⇒ (2, 1) = 3=2
HP Level 3: 2d8 ⇒ (8, 1) = 9=8
HP Level 4: 2d8 ⇒ (7, 1) = 8=7
HP Level 5: 2d8 ⇒ (8, 7) = 15=8

Mokshai

So, there are 18 toons in the 'current characters' tab.

Which PCs are active at the moment?

Alright GM, Ryker's out! He's had his farewell and is no reassigned to another team. When you get a chance, please mark this character as inactive.

Thanks y'all it has been fun :)

New players, enjoy! :D

@ GM, do I post into the game, or still waiting on a point for introductions ?

@Ragnar - yes please post into the game

Alright GM, Ryker's out! He's had his farewell and is no reassigned to another team. When you get a chance, please mark this character as inactive.

Thanks y'all it has been fun :)

New players, enjoy! :D

Thanks to you too! It was fun to share a table with you. :)

@ Bran:

Current active: Adonara, Bachu, Bran, Fulk and Ragnar

We are still waiting on a couple of the newer players to post in game, I have messaged so in total there should be 8 of you I think.

Oops. I lost the tab when we went through the great authentication server rebuild, and forgot to go looking again . . ..

So, does the group have a preference for how Til should be built? Want the corporate spy (traditional thief skills) version or the pure social version? Won't really change the personality, much, so I'll go post in the game thread in a little bit. while you give your preferences.

Edit For the record, the profile was already adjusted to the thiefie-thief version, so that's my assumption moving forward unless given motivation to reconsider.[/edit]

My apologies for losing track of a game I wasn't actively playing in, yet. <grin>

Take the average of the hit point rolls please.

Looking back through this thread, I see that someone else missed this call just as I had, originally.

Was refamiliarizing myself with Til as updated for this game, and decided to look at potential Prestige Classes. I don't see one as a requirement, I just decided to look while I stay out of the way with my wife and daughter chasing the grandkids . . ..

I see 3 he could get into with relative ease, mechanics-wise, anyway.

Duelist - Though he's focused away from combat, this could be a way to ramp up his combat abilities a little, anyway. Couldn't start this until Level 9. An interesting idea, though I'm not sure what I think about it. Shores up build weakness, but reduces build focus.

Master Spy - Would make it easier for him to hide himself and his intentions as an agent of the Silver Ravens, while still being front and center wherever needed. Ties into the concept of him as a corporate espionage agent for the family, too. Not sure if the prestige class benefits are something worth pursuing, though, as they are deeply intended for mostly solo work. Could start taking this at Level 8. Works with build strengths, but aims slightly to the side, if you will.

Noble Scion - Well, it is a perfect tie to his background. Not sure if the "free money" as a class benefit will work in this story, though, as I'm not confident the family business will remain in the family instead of being seized. Provides a mechanical justification for better access to things, but would make Til easier to find and track. He could, technically, already have a level in this one. It reduces some of the strengths of the current build going forward, but provides bonuses to help shore that up.

Mostly a thought experiment, really. Anybody else want to express an opinion, or even engage in the same experiment for your character?

Up to you, of course: I thought you had originally envisioned him as more social?

For what it’s worth, our main concerns about thiefy stuff were (I think) that my character isn’t quite online for dealing with magical traps just yet. She’ll always have to rely on spells/wands for that, which I’m OK with, and we did just find a vest of escape which should help narrow the gap until she gets Disable Device as a class skill at our next level-up. (Incidentally, the rest of us are still at level 5? Not that it’s any skin off my back.)

I guess it depends on how comfortably you and everyone else are with leaving traps to someone who’s still going to be a rank amateur / dilettante for probably another couple of days of game time at least. :)

Anyone know a way to get ghost touch on a natural attack?

I am going to be pretty inept waving a short sword about.

magic weapon will at least give you half damage.

Amulet of Mighty Fists. Or the body wrap alternate.

Amulet of Mighty Fists. Or the body wrap alternate.

Unfortunately...

This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons and ammunition.

And the amulet of mighty fists says it can hold melee weapon special abilities.

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

Italics are mine.

It seems to me that any ability which has a restrictive description on the text (like brawling which only applies to a few weapons) is out of bounds.
Flaming or holy are fine because they have no restrictions in the description.

I've asked about this on the boards as it seems to exclude a big chunk of weapon abilities (everything which is melee only has a line about only being applied to 'melee weapons') and just leave the most generic abilities behind.

Well, if you take that statement at face value, then zero melee abilities.may be placed on the amulet, because you can't put any of them directly on unarmed attacks.

Don't believe me? How do you directly enchant unarmed attacks?

Once you accept that bit of reality, that particular phrase loses meaning.

For what it’s worth, Bran, that sounds like an oddly restrictive reading (said the chaotic priestess :) ) to me, though I get it. Are they mainly just trying to prevent reach shenanigans through ranged qualities? So no “I hit him with my +2 throwing distance fists!”? We could also compare the gloves of improvised might for the intent…

Mainly, though, I don’t have a problem with it, and there’s no harm in asking our GM. We’re pretty relaxed here: Adonara’s build is lightly houseruled, for example. (Strictly speaking Mantis, not Wasp, Zealots are fanatics in service to Achaekek, rather than Calistria, for one.)

And, even if we have to improvise, I'm sure there will be plenty of stuff for you to tear up optimally before too long. For now, Ragnar and I could hopefully prepare and land at least one ghostbane dirge between us, and then anything magic would do the trick.

In this instance I would allow the amulet of mighty fists to give ghost touch on a natural attack.

Well, if you take that statement at face value, then zero melee abilities.may be placed on the amulet, because you can't put any of them directly on unarmed attacks.

Don't believe me? How do you directly enchant unarmed attacks?

Once you accept that bit of reality, that particular phrase loses meaning.

Yeah, I get that.

But then the line is a piece of dead text. It’s meaningless.

So, what does it mean? That’s the only thing it can mean, as far as I can parse it.

Thanks Daniel, I can’t actually afford an AoMF right now anyway so it is a bit of a moot point.

But then the line is a piece of dead text. It’s meaningless.

So, what does it mean? That’s the only thing it can mean, as far as I can parse it.

It PROBABLY started as an attempt to indicate you can

In Pathfinder, specifics outweigh generalities.

So, if a description does not exclude unarmed strikes, you’re good, but if the description restricts the enchantment to certain weapons then the AoMF is excluded.

The bit about melee weapons just limits you to the list of Melee Weapon Special Abilities and then you are further restricted to those that do not specifically state ‘weapons only’ or something similar.

That was my reading.

It’s not a carry over from 3.5.
I suppose that I am loathe to rely on ‘Paizo just screwed up’.

The GM has approved it and that's all that really matters, but there is no reason for it to be needed to be approved.

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:

Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.

An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see "Armed" Unarmed Attacks, below).

"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).

Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).

Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.

Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat).

Those two rules show unarmed attacks are melee attacks and that they are considered weapon damage.

The caveat that the AoMF can have abilities that Unarmed Strike can have precludes things like Keen with requires a slashing or piercing weapon as Unarmed Strikes are bludgeoning. There are also a few which make no sense to add that possibly could be like dancing or throwing.

I have only looked at the Core Rule Book as that was all that existed when the AoMF was made and is best understood only with those rules.

That's my 2 cents. I'm done. On with the game.