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Hello GM, just a remark: in case the module says that the serpentfolk really drops the disguise (as a standard action) then this could be treated as a trigger for surprise round initiative and also for a surprise round action which should allow a perception check from everyone to potentially react before the serpentfolk channels?
In one of your games you argued that even the intent to take an action triggers initiative so even in case the serpentfolk wanted to start to channel without dropping the disguise this should trigger initiative?
Just trying to find mechanical reasons for not dying. ;-)
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@ Uhvat : can you check your movement to see if you could have dragged us further down the hallway so we’d not be affected by the channel?
Tofang weighs 55 lbs including backpack after having dropped both pistols.
Regarding the issue of whether Tiawask/Ziszkaa needs to use a standard action to drop her disguise, the module doesn't direct me to do anything one way or another about this (beyond saying that she/he helps to defeat Uzar-Kus, and then turns on the party). Mechanically speaking, the effect is caused by Disguise Self, which is Dismissible, and I believe that dismissing an active spell is always a standard action. So, definitely, from a mechanical perspective, she/he would have to give up an entire turn simply to show all of you what they really look like. Of course they would never do that - it would be suicidal, essentially giving you all a free round of actions. So, if you all prefer, I can just leave them looking like Tiawask and not have their actual physical form revert until/if you manage to slay them. That feels less cinematic to me (and, again, there is absolutely no mechanical difference to their abilities whether or not they are in disguise, so it doesn't make it an easier or harder fight either way) but I don't mind if that feels more fair to you all.
In a similar vein, they could not have made such a long speech during a single round of combat, so according to a strict interpretation of the rules I would have to save all that verbiage until after you have killed them, but that seems rather unsatisfying for all of you, who would have no idea why the "captive" who you "rescued" is now turning on you. It seems more appropriate to hand-wave the limit on what can be said in a single round of combat in order to give you all the story elements that are unfolding now, as the battle continues within the same initiative structure that has been ongoing.
As to whether I should be restarting a new initiative sequence now, I don't think so. For one thing, from T/Z's point of view, they are simply taking their actions when their turn comes up. If anything, if I did restart the initiative I would first give them their turn as normally scheduled, and then, after restarting initiative, a surprise round, and that just seems like too much - the bad guys don't need help here! So my inclination is to just keep the fight going with the same initiative tracker that we've already got.
About your observation about how, in another game, I told a player that casting a spell would trigger initiative, that was really trying to prevent the all-too-common (in my view) tendency for players to want to grab a free round of buffing before the start of initiative; in my opinion that should only be warranted when one side has some advance knowledge, like the party has peeked around the corner and seen a foe and are getting the drop on them, or in the case of this current fight, Uzar-Kus was able to pre-buff because the other serpentfolk had telepathically warned him about the pathfinder invasion. In short, I stand by my reasoning in that case, but I feel like this is a different situation.
And yes, I completely understand your wish to keep your character alive! Unfortunately, in the current situation, even a successful save vs the channel will push you over the death threshold. If it's any consolation, I'm less worried that this will turn into a TPK than I was when the sorcerer was lobbing fireballs (not unworried, just less worried!). So hopefully even if Tofang dies it will just be, ultimately, a little bump in his road.
About Uhvat's position on the map, I'll address that in a separate post.
So, the question of where Uhvat (and Tofang) has moved to is a good illustration of how PbP sometimes presents difficulties that an in-person table wouldn't have. If we were in person, I would have simply asked Uhvat to move himself on the map before revealing the "surprise" and that would be that. In PbP, it is hard to ask questions like that without giving away that something unexpected is coming. That is why I waited several days for Uhvat to post his choice of actions. But once he finally posted that he was moving, he didn't actually reposition his token on the map. So I had to decide where he had moved to, with only the guidance that the purpose of the movement was to get out of line of effect from the acid-spitting statues. So I moved him out the door, which definitely gets both of them out of the line of fire from the statues (incidentally, Uhvat, you indicated that you aren't sure where they are - they are the four serpent-headed shapes set into the green liquid on the sides of the temple on the map). As a practical matter, though, even if Uhvat/Tofang had moved one square further down the hall (adjacent to Ashwell), they would still have been reachable by the channel (Ziszkaa could have moved one square further to the West (i.e. left on the map) and still reached Uhvat/Tofang and also Lucifer and Kala to the South). The only way that Uhvat/Tofang would have been out of reach of the channel is if they had moved through Ashwell's square even further down the corridor, and there didn't seem to be anything in Uhvat's post that would have warranted that interpretation (I'm not even sure there would have been enough movement to reach that far).
In short, I think the positioning is fair, even if it's not ideal for the party (and especially for poor Tofang!). But, of course, if you disagree please share your views and we'll discuss.
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Thanks GM. Totally understand the reasoning to include the disguise dropping and speech as a cinematic event and I really enjoyed that. So keeping initiative makes total sense!
Regarding Uhvat I have a different view as there were fireballS flying with incredible reach and the situation wasn’t completely resolved and if my character would save someone then I’d really like to know them in safety.
And we’re talking about only one or two squares so I hope in the presence of doubt we can move us further down the corridor.
Well, the source of the fireballs had just dropped. As far as the party knew, the only source of ongoing danger was the acid-spitting trap, which Uhvat said that he wanted to move out of range of, which I did for him when I moved his token. He also mentioned his concern about leaving unconscious Kala behind, which would argue for getting unconscious Tofang to the nearest (seemingly) safe spot so that he could potentially turn around and go back for Kala on the following round (especially since Haste was about to expire).
From another point of view, Uhvat's Hasted movement speed is 60' (even with carrying Tofang I believe his encumbrance is still Light due to 20 Str and no armor from being a monk). Picking up Tofang uses a move action, leaving a single standard action to move 60'. I've traced that movement path in red on the map - Uhvat could have reached one square further away - and I've adjusted his position accordingly. (Even if he had 5' more of movement, Ashwell was, at that time, in the next square after that). However, that doesn't save Tofang or Uhvat from the channel because Tiawask would have just moved one square further to the left - she is still within 30' of all the channel's targets (except, still, Ashwell); I've adjusted Tiawask's position accordingly on the map. As you can see, it doesn't change anything about the channel.
So, while it's unfortunate for Tofang and Uhvat, I'm going to let the situation stand as is.
@GM Abraham: Will it cost 16 or 21 PP to cast Raise Dead on Kala?*You can buy raise dead using 16 PP, 5,450 gp, or 8 PP and 2,450 gp.
Add 5 to this cost if this benefit is purchased outside of a settlement of 5,000 residents or more.
If no one from the party survives (i.e. a TPK) then each character's body will need to be recovered at a cost of 5 prestige (gold cannot be substituted for this).
Raise Dead for a single character costs 16 Prestige, or 5450 gp, or you can divide the cost between Prestige and gold. Character gear can be sold to help pay for this (at the usual value of 50% of purchase price). You can also use whatever gold/prestige you earn from this adventure (I'll have to look up what happens to the gold/prestige if there's a TPK). And other party members can also contribute (gold, not prestige) to these costs.
After having Raise Dead cast, a character will have two permanent negative levels, each of which will need Restoration to be cast to be removed. (This, however, does not have to be done immediately, so you could, in theory, continue adventuring with one or two negative levels for sometime until you had the gold/prestige to have them removed). Each Restoration casting costs 4 Prestige or 1280 gp.
In short, if the end result is not a TPK, each dead character will incur a cost of 24 Prestige, or 8010 gp, or some combination thereof. If there is a TPK, add another 5 Prestige to that for body recovery.
If I've gotten any of these details wrong, someone please correct me. I actually haven't had a character death, on either side of the table, in a long time.
I think it works for 1 minute?
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Well, this is terrifying. Here's hoping Ashwell can break Tiawask's concentration.
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Ok, have caught up and decided not to post in the gameplay thread since it is quite exciting now and don't have to disrupt the flow.
On the +2, I searched and as per Yanda, it is the boon from Godhome so is not relevant. Moreover, Uhvat has already used the boon (normally +1 but one time to get +2 and then no more) but I forgot to delete.
No, Uhvat has no more rerolls and no relevant boons so the 2nd channel would have killed him.
Hello GM, just a note that I believe that Sanctuary is cancelled out in case the spiritual weapon strikes?
Not making the spiritual weapon attack would require a move action I believe?
I thought about this but when I read both of the spells (Spiritual Weapon and Sanctuary) I don't *think* so. Spiritual Weapon makes it clear that, once you've assigned it a target (as Tiawask did before casting Sanctuary) it continues attacking that target independently of what you do (e.g. it doesn't use your attack actions). And Sanctuary indicates that it continues unless you make an attack, which Spiritual Weapon is clearly not you making an attack. Can anyone find any rules (or rules forum) support for interpreting otherwise?
In any case, if she has to choose she would let the Spiritual Weapon be inert rather than lose the Sanctuary, so we don't need to pause the action while we investigate this question - if I'm persuaded to change the ruling all it will mean is taking off the modest dmg done by the Spiritual Weapon last round.
Well, this is terrifying. Here's hoping Ashwell can break Tiawask's concentration.
** spoiler omitted **
I think it's very reasonable to assume that you all know what gear you are each carrying.
Sanctuary says that the subject is not immune to AoE effects and also that you can't "directly" attack the warded creature. So I would allow you to attack the next square with a splash weapon in hopes of doing some AoE splash damage.
Hi GM, I only found this.I think different opinions on spiritual weapon and sanctuary or invisibility so table variation. :-)
I think I'll let it stand as is for now unless someone else can find something more definitive but if it turns out to make the difference between life and death I'll try to research it more exhaustively.
Just a heads up to let you all know that I'll be going on a trip on May 18 for a couple of weeks and will likely need to pause the game during that time. I'm hoping that we can finish this fight (and the level) before that, though the crazy way it's all gone, who knows what will happen!?!
If a PC is behind the statue to the north, would they be targetable by the acid spitting statues?
If anyone is interested, Yanda has a potion of resist energy on her person which would make them effectively immune to the acid.
Would Lucifer be able to try a Disarm Combat Maneuver on the Lizardcaster? Unsure if that would conflict with the Sanctuary.
Yes, unfortunately that would count as an attack. Don't worry though, Sanctuary won't last much longer... :-)
Only four more rounds until Tofang wakes up. :-)
By my tally only two I think? Did I mess up the math?
Hey everyone, writing in some haste because I'm leaving in the morning for a two week trip (first travel since the start of the pandemic) and lots to do before I leave.
Despite some significant challenges (!) you have completed the level successfully, earning full gold and prestige. This was as close as I've ever come to a TPK, on either side of the table, but I'm really impressed with how you all stuck with it and managed to pull out a win. Great job!
When I have time I'll pull the curtain back and try to give you a little more background on what was going on in that fight (for example, that Uzar-Kus knew, through telepathy with the other serpentfolk, that you were coming, which is why he was so well prepared with various buffs cast, the giant snake pulled in from the hatchery, etc.) if people are interested. But I just don't have time right now.
Uhvat, Kala, and Tofang (whose revenant boon will expire) all need to be raised from the dead (presuming that you want to be able to keep playing these characters). As mentioned previously, the cost for this is 16 prestige (or 5450 gp) for the raise dead and TWO castings of Restoration (4 prestige or 1280 gp each). You can use gold/prestige that you are earning from this chronicle towards these costs. Each expense can be paid for entirely with prestige, entirely with gold, or 50/50 each.
Other party members can (but are not required to) contribute to these costs (using gold, but not prestige).
Please discuss among yourselves and let me know how I should mark down these expenses on the chronicle sheets.
Also, Kala will need to replace Stinky. I'm guessing that Hunters probably replace dead companions for free but if that's wrong please let me know what I need to mark on the chronicle for that.
IMPORTANT: for your chronicles, please feel out the information at the link below:
https://www.rpgchronicles.net/session/23706ff2-13e0-4ee4-930c-5a58adae697a/ pregame
I'm afraid I won't have time to handle these chronicles before I leave for my trip so it'll have to wait until I get back at the end of the month. But for your planning purposes, the chronicle awards (for normal track): 3 XP, 4 Prestige and 11,787 gp. Some levels of the Emerald Spire advise going slow track in order to stay on track for the tier requirements, but this level is not one of them. For those of you who want to continue on to the next level of the Spire (Level 9: The Spire Axis), the required subtier is 7-9 (which I believe that all of you will fit into without difficulty and without needing to slow track this level that has just completed).
Please let me know if you want to continue on for the next level - I've already heard from one person that they need to drop out due to real life but hopefully at least four of you would like to keep going.
I'll need to take a break while on this trip anyway so I should be ready to resume on June 1 if that works for everyone else.
Let me know if you have any questions though my time checking the boards may be a bit sporadic the next couple of weeks.
And for those of you moving on, thanks for playing!
Try this one:
Link for RPG chronicles
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I will definitely continue, but may swap in a more dungeon friendly character. Since pretty much everything is protected from fire bombs, requires will saves, and/or has mirror image up, Yanda does not seem a wise choice.
I have an 8th level bard, 9th level cleric, or a 9th level sorcerer (though she is an elemental/fire sorceress so that would be silly with all the fire resistance) I could pull in as a replacement. So who is leaving?
Note that the next two levels, after the Spire Axis, are both tier 8-10, so if you play a level 9 character you'll have to pay attention to make sure you don't tier out. Also, if you continue on as a group of 5 (or 6), you may find that the challenge isn't too tough for you, especially if you are at the high end of the subtier.
The plentiful mirror images and blur effects were because the serpentfolk get those as racial SLAs. Thankfully, after two full levels of serpentfolk, you move on to other enemies now. I haven't actually read ahead yet so I can't say much about fire protection (although you do have a level coming that is called "The Magma Vault"!) and I think it's safe to assume that low will saves are always going to be deadly, especially in higher level pathfinder.
The one thing I think you can pretty much consistently rely on is that it all remains fairly tightly confined, just due to the fact that every level gets a single map.
And I believe that Uhvat has decided not to return due to real life constraints, though of course I should let them speak for themselves.
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Yanda would too out of guilt if nothing else.
I'm thinking Guy would be a good replacement. He is an Ecclesitheurge so no way is he a front liner, and his primary domain is fire so he would suffer from the prejudice the writer has against fire, but a cleric is always nice to have along.
So, would all of you prefer to keep Yanda around in spite of the hate the dungeon has against her, or switch to a character that is almost certain to be useful.
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Hi everyone, yes I've decided to bow out after this game. My posting have gotten more intermittent in recent times as my work commitment has been gradually increasing and I've been struggling to keep up with my games.
I really want to thank GM Abraham for letting me join the game earlier, when Uhvat's earlier Emerald Spire run was cut short when the GM left. It is with some sadness that I won't be continuing the rest of the spire run... :(
Anyway, just for the records, Uhvat has enough PP for Raise Dead, but since there's a good chance Uhvat would be permanently retired, I am also more then happy to chip gold and PP for those who need it.
Finally, a huge thanks to everyone in the group for the incredible run, and the very epic final battle. :) Sorry that this leaves a gap in the party.
All the best!