
Sebecloki |

I think we could put together 5-6 options for a commonality for the character such as choose from the following:
(a) a dominant stat, or
(b) same energy/elemental power in all classes (negative energy/shadow), or
(c) all be full/3/4 BAB classes, or
(d) group by full, half etc. caster, or
(e) group by skill points (8/6 etc.), etc.

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The primary ability mechanic really seemed fine until I brought Spheres classes into the mix, so I don't want to sound like I think it isn't good.
What if you set up an either/or option like in your Dark Sun Legacy of Fire campaign? With the way Spheres seems to be getting really messy with the current option, I would appreciate the option to just do a gestalt instead of the triple-archetype thing.
Oh I also wanted to ask if anyone could make a prestige class recommendation for me. Shadowdancer is the obvious one which is thematically similar, but its abilities duplicate or are very similar to things I was already doing with my talent choices...well, except the shadow, because I wasn't going to put any talents in the Conjuration sphere, but I don't really want the shadow (or any summons) anyway.

Zorblag |

Just with sheer options I do think that the Chassis +3 is more powerful (or at least has the option to be depending on build) at the level than a gestalt. The level 6 gestalt would have the advantage of powers being one higher in most cases (Mystic Theurge would get around that a bit for some builds, but mostly prestige classes aren't nearly the upgrade that other options would be,) and there are interesting things that come online at 6th level for enough classes to make it an interesting choice. I like the decision between the two.

Slyness |

Cool, just thought I'd ask.
Initial thoughts, any advice or input welcomed:
Template: Half-dragon(human)
Chassis: Scaled Fist Unchained Monk(Att:Str/Cha)(Theme:Dragons)
Prestige: Furious Guardian
Archetype: Kensai
Archetype: Crossblooded Sorcerer(Orc/Draconic)
Archetype: Hunting Serpent, maybe (for sneak attack)(still browsing...)

Sebecloki |

Just to lay out a bit about how I see this going:
It's going to be very much a sandbox where I intend to just react to character choices and make it up as I go along.
The idea is that you're amnesiacs who either fall out of the sky/pop up on the surface of the ocean (or maybe even underwater and you have to begin by swimming to the surface)/instantaneously manifest in the middle of a busy city square, etc. (I'll want you to collectively decide how you're going to all show up together).
At that point, all you have to work with is the fact of your 3 companions and the situation you find yourself in. You'll have to decide how to proceed. You won't need any setting knowledge to play because your characters won't really have any.
I'm going to do a lot of mash-ups of monsters from different sources to make truly weird critters for you to potentially engage.
We'll just sort of see where the story goes.

Zorblag |

@Slyness, that looks like a fun build! I do wonder if using an archetyped class as a chassis meets the intention though. I'd think that adding the scaled fist on as an archetype would count as one of the three (using both it and the unchained monk features where there was overlap.) You do also get to replace class features you don't want at one per level with anything from another class with the same stats. I used that to pick up some slayer sneak attack at level three on the Destined Attendant (I something else I wanted at level 1, so I didn't go with rogue there.) If there are individual abilities you want to pick up you might be able to slide them in with that (especially if you get them on an archetype as well as the main class.)
Oh, and as an addendum, I think that crossblooded sorcerer is such a good pick for a charisma build. I almost can't see not taking it with the flexibility it has to add whatever makes sense for what else you're doing. Kensai on the other hand doesn't look like it would give spellstrike or spell combat; you'd still get magus spells and an arcana pool you could use for maximizing weapon damage and enhancing the weapon as they show up, but I don't see the other two abilities mentioned in the archetype so it wouldn't give access to them. It could still help your build and flavor, but it might not do what you're intending.

Slyness |

The idea wasn't to use 'ninja' as an archetype, but Hunting Serpent which is a ninja archetype. Zorblag was referring to using Scaled Fist as an actual archetype. If that's not cool, there's my third.
The appeal of Kensai is Int to AC, weapon focus, fighter training. The overall character idea is more of a melee fighter with bite and claws.
I'll probably grab a few barbarian and paladin abilities.

Slyness |

Can I use the DSP(non-errataed) version of Feral Combat Training that includes the "as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike" phrase so I can apply stuff like Ki Strike?
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Feral Combat Training (Combat): You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon, proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

The Destined Attendant |

Right, I'd just assumed half +1 after first, but let's roll and see what happens!
The Destined Attendant HP: 5d10 ⇒ (10, 9, 10, 6, 6) = 41
That's a bit better.
I think that I'm ready to go with this character now whenever others are. I'm happy to appear anywhere. If others have a preference I'm happy to go with it!

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Would guys mind posting a simplified summary of your characters' capabilities? Something like "Full BAB, nice damage in melee but weaker ranged, with a compliment of druid spellcasting."
I'm still teetering amongst different character options, and seeing what others have together already may help me make a decision.

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And I just found Fright Wight. So many options...
You might like to grab the Gladiator sphere plus a talent or two from it. You can get them by spending feats on Extra Combat Talent if you're happy with a small dip into combat talents and not looking to get an actual progression.

Slyness |

Chassis question:
Abilities seem to come in three types: non-progressive, semi-progressive, full-progressive. Paladin example:
(Non)Divine Grace: one-time passive effect
(Semi)Smite Evil: More uses and more effective as you level, appears in "Special" column each time you obtain an extra use
(Full)Lay on hands: More uses and more effective as you level, but only appears in "Special" column once
So, by taking a class ability, do we get everything listed under it, including its progression?

Slyness |

Awesome, that's cool to hear. It took a while to come together, but I think it will be fun to play.
And I'm still poring over the epic level handbook. There was some heavy flirting with Dragon Wild Shape, but I would need to take Wild Shape and that is Zorblag's theme. I keep looking at Fast Healing because it's useful, but I'm not certain.
Also, there is no mechanical difference, so would you mind if his draconic heritage is that of a time dragon from bestiary 4?

Rednal |

Well, I'm interested... XD And I decided to have a bit of fun with some of the madness detailed above. The character I'd like to submit is an Eliciter (Spheres of Power) / Atomic Adept (Gonzo) gestalt, since this worked waaaaaay better for my concept. I haven't written a full backstory yet - need to research the setting a bit - but the gist is that they're a pretty social person (great Dancing skills, high Diplomacy) who can use fairly subtle mind and healing powers... and also shoot beams of nuclear energy when pressed. For their Epic feat, I decided to take Perfect Health, which was one of the few ways that seemed possible to get immunity to poison (something this build needs to work effectively). Offensively, they can deal 6d6 as a ray or in a cone - which doesn't seem too overpowered, given the build rules - and they can cast a couple of spells from their class (nothing too big, really).
Alignment-wise, Mariel's primarily Red, with Black and Green as sub-colors.

Zorblag |

I don't know if you have a template in mind, but there's some chance you could get Poison Immunity through that if you wanted to have the Epic option open for something else. I'm not positive that there's one out there, but there are a lot of crazy templates.
EDIT: For example, Mutant Creature Might give you what you want with it's immunity to radiation perhaps? I haven't looked closely enough into the Elicitor or Atomic adept to know if that's what the poison immunity was for.

Sebecloki |

Well, I'm interested... XD And I decided to have a bit of fun with some of the madness detailed above. The character I'd like to submit is an Eliciter (Spheres of Power) / Atomic Adept (Gonzo) gestalt, since this worked waaaaaay better for my concept. I haven't written a full backstory yet - need to research the setting a bit - but the gist is that they're a pretty social person (great Dancing skills, high Diplomacy) who can use fairly subtle mind and healing powers... and also shoot beams of nuclear energy when pressed. For their Epic feat, I decided to take Perfect Health, which was one of the few ways that seemed possible to get immunity to poison (something this build needs to work effectively). Offensively, they can deal 6d6 as a ray or in a cone - which doesn't seem too overpowered, given the build rules - and they can cast a couple of spells from their class (nothing too big, really).
Alignment-wise, Mariel's primarily Red, with Black and Green as sub-colors.
Everyone is amnesiac, there is no backstory -- I'm not sure you saw the above discussion, but the idea is for this to be like Tides of Numenera where the story starts when the PC falls out of the sky.
I haven't fully decided, but I'm leaning towards everyone materializing underwater and going from there -- like the first thing you probably have to deal with is getting to the surface quickly!
After that, it's all interaction to learn about the setting, no background knowledge required.

Rednal |

Well, that makes it easy, then. XD I'll probably write up some lengthy worldview stuff, then, based on the tides - just to have a better sense for how I'd like to play them. I THINK I got all the AC-for-DR and Grouped Skills and stuff done correctly... also, my template technically would've let me apply my (high) charisma to HP, but that felt like it would have been a bit too much, so I decided to just not grab that. Gotta stay within reason, even in crazy games. XD
Also, I was a bit inspired by Erritis from Tides of Numenera. He made me laugh on my playthrough of the game. ^^
Mariel
Female sublime human atomic adept 6/eliciter 6/gestalt 6
Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +6
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Defense
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Defense 14, flat-footed 10. . (+4 Dex)
Armor DR: 9/magic or Large. . (+6 armor, +1 HD bonus, +2 natural armor)
Critical Defense: +13. . (+9 DR, +4 Dex)
hp 69 (6d8+36); fast healing 9
Fort +11, Ref +6, Will +7 (+2 vs charm and compulsion effects)
Immune aging, disease, positive energy; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, negative energy 10
Weaknesses focus casting, mental focus, personal warp
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Special Attacks fascinate, nuclear strike (6d6+enrichment / 110 feet), sublime: channel positive energy (3d6)
Eliciter Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +15)
. . 12/day・charming touch
. . 12・touch of fear
. . 12・touch of joy
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 18, Con 22, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 28
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 20
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Cantrips, Combat Expertise, Combat Stamina, Counterspell, Deadly Aim, Extra Emotion, Extra Emotion, Extra Emotion, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Greater Hypnosis, Heroic Will[ARG], Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Sphere Focus
Skills Acrobatics +2 (+6 to jump), Bluff +21 (You can always take 10 with this skill, even if circumstances would normally prohibit that action.), Diplomacy +21 (You can always take 10 with this skill, even if circumstances would normally prohibit that action.), Disguise +15, Intimidate +18 (You can always take 10 with this skill, even if circumstances would normally prohibit that action.), Linguistics +11, Perception +6, Perform (dance) +18, Sense Motive +11 (You can always take 10 with this skill, even if circumstances would normally prohibit that action.)
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Halfling, Sylvan
SQ agile maneuvers, alignment: red (primary) green/black (secondary), alpha radiation [see beta radiation], atomic talent: enrichment, atomic talent: plutonium vent, atomic talent: tactical nuclear strike, atomic talents, beta radiation, casting, charm, combat expertise, courage, courage (greater), courage (lesser), cure, deadly aim, emotions (charming touch, lingering joy, touch of fear, touch of joy, universal love, weaken resolve), enchanter, expanded charm, extradimensional storage, finesse weapon attack attribute, greater healing, hypnotism, improved initiative, invigorate, liberate, perfect health [epic], point-blank shot, power attack, radiation, read mind, read mind (greater), read mind (lesser), read mind (powerful), restore, resuscitate, revitalize (Fast Healing 2), rules changes, spells , sublime: ageless, sublime: armor class, sublime: fast healing, sublime: positive energy affinity, sublime: speed, suggestion, suggestion (greater), suggestion (lesser), teleport, vision, vision (greater), vision (lesser)
Other Gear elven chain
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Agile Maneuvers [Combat Trick] For a Combat Maneuver, treat self as size category larger for each 2 Stamina spent (up to Dex bonus)
Alignment: Red (Primary) Green/Black (Secondary) (Ex)
Alpha Radiation [See Beta Radiation] (Ex) At 3rd level, the atomic adept’s radiation pierces through thicker armor. Only a combined armor and shield bonus of 4 or greater or a natural armor bonus of 5 or greater reduce rads by half if cast by an atomic adept of 3rd level or higher. This affects the caster’s rad gain as well.
Atomic Talent: Enrichment (Sp) The atomic adept’s nuclear blast deals 1d6 points of damage per level, instead of 1d6 per 2 levels. Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine glowing dust that emits 10 rads per round for 1d6 hours. A disintegrated creature’s equipment is unaffected by this effect. An atomic adept must be at least 4th level to select this talent.
Atomic Talent: Plutonium Vent (Ex) The atomic adept may spend an additional use of his nuclear strike class feature (or suffer an additional amount of rads equal to twice his level if he has no uses of this ability left) to fire his nuclear strike as a 30ft cone instead of a ray. This automatically creates an irradiated zone with the same area as the cone. Creatures struck by the blast may make a Reflex save (DC 10+ 1/2 atomic adepts level + his Intelligence modifier) to halve the number of rads received from this attack.
Atomic Talent: Tactical Nuclear Strike (Ex) The range of the atomic adepts nuclear blast class feature doubles. In addition he may spend 1 additional use of his nuclear blast class feature to outline foes struck with his blast as if by a faerie fire spell, using his atomic adept level as his caster level. Creatures outlined in this manner, as well as creatures adjacent to that creature, take 1 rad per 2 atomic adept levels he possesses each round until the effect ends.
Atomic Talents (Ex) Starting at 2nd level and every even level thereafter, the atomic adept gains an atomic talent
Beta Radiation (Ex) At 6th level, the atomic adept’s radiation pierces through thicker armor. Only a combined armor and shield bonus of 6 or greater or a natural armor bonus of 7 or greater reduce rads by half if cast by an atomic adept of 6th level or higher. This affects the caster’s rad gain as well.
Cantrips You can create a variety of small magical effects
Casting (CL 4, MSB +6, MSD 17, Concentration +15, DC 21) You can cast sphere effects.
Charming Touch (3 rounds, 12/day, DC 25) (Sp) Touched target treats you as friendly for 3 rounds
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Expertise [Combat Trick] Ignore penalty from Combat Expertise for stamina spent.
Counterspell (1 target) As a standard action, spend a spell point to counter a magical effect with a successful MSB check
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Deadly Aim [Combat Trick] 4 stamina points reduce penalty from Deadly Aim by 1.
Enchanter Gain Mind as a bonus sphere, and use your class level as caster level with Mind
Energy Resistance, Cold (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Negative energy (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Negative Energy attacks.
Fascinate (6 rounds, DC 25) (Su) Hypnotism: Target becomes fascinated
Fast Healing 9 (Ex) Heal damage every round unless you are killed.
Finesse Weapon Attack Attribute The “light weapons” category has been renamed to “finesse weapons.” Characters can choose to use either their dexterity bonus or their strength bonus to hit with these weapons, no feat required. “Finesse” is also now a weapon attribute li
Focus Casting (DC 22) You must make a concentration check to use magic without your focus item
Greater Hypnosis Hypnotize targets at Medium range
Heroic Will (1/day) Attempt a new saving throw against a harmful condition requiring a Will save.
Hypnotism (Su) You can affect a target's mind in various ways
Immunity to Aging You are immune to aging effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Positive Energy You are immune to positive energy.
Improved Initiative [Combat Trick] 10 stamina points to use 20 as the rolled result.
Liberate (Su) Hypnotism: Grant a target a new save against any harmful mind affects
Life: Cure 1d8+8 (DC 21) Heal a target
Life: Greater Healing Your cure heals 1 additional HP per caster level
Life: Invigorate (Up to 4 temp HP) Grant up to 4 temporary HP to an injured target
Life: Restore Heal a target's ability damage and remove negative conditions
Life: Resuscitate Cure or invigorate creatures who died within the last round
Life: Revitalize (Fast Healing 2) Cure can grant the target Fast Healing instead of healing normally
Lingering Joy Touch of Joy lasts for 2 rounds
Mental Focus (DC 22) You can lose mental focus, making it more difficult to use magic
Mind: Charm You may place charms on creatures.
Mind: Courage You inspire the target to great action.
Mind: Courage (Greater) +2 Target gains morale bonus for 1 rd/CL
Mind: Courage (Lesser) +3 Target gains morale bonus on 1 roll within the next 1 minute
Mind: Expanded Charm Charm creatures not of your type
Mind: Read Mind You can pull information from a target’s mind.
Mind: Read Mind (Greater, DC 26) Read a creature's surface thoughts
Mind: Read Mind (Lesser, DC 26) Detect a creature's emotional state
Mind: Read Mind (Powerful, DC 26) You may pull a specific piece of information out of a creature’s mind.
Mind: Suggestion You may plant thoughts into a target’s mind.
Mind: Suggestion (Greater, DC 26) As lesser Suggestion, but stronger
Mind: Suggestion (Lesser, DC 26) Plant a suggestion into the target's mind
Mind: Vision You may make someone see things that are not there.
Mind: Vision (Greater, DC 26) As Lesser Vision, but can affect all senses
Mind: Vision (Lesser, DC 26) Alter a creatures perception of a single creature, object, sound, or effect
Nuclear Strike (6d6+Enrichment / 110 feet, 11/day) (Sp) s a standard action an atomic adept can let loose a ray of atomic energy to vaporize a target within 30 feet (+ 5 feet per atomic adept level after 1st level). A nuclear strike inflicts 1d6 radiation damage at 1st level - this damage increases by an additional 1d6 at every odd level thereafter to a maximum of 10d6 at 19th level. This is a ray attack and additionally inflicts a number of rads on the target equal to x2 the atomic adept’s level. The atomic adept also receives a number of rads equal to his atomic adept level. An atomic adept may safely perform a nuclear strike once per day per atomic adept level +1 additional time per day equal to his Intelligence modifier. Each time thereafter he takes x2 his atomic adept level in rads in place of the normal amount.
Perfect Health [Epic] (Ex) You are immune to all nonmagical diseases, as well as to all poisons whose Fortitude save DC is 25 or less.
Personal Warp You may only teleport yourself
Point-Blank Shot [Combat Trick] Up to 6 stamina points to increase Point-Blank range by 5 ft per stamina spent.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Power Attack [Combat Trick] 2 stamina points to use Power Attack only until end of turn, instead of the start of the next turn.
Radiation (Ex) The atomic adept uses a new mechanic known as radiation. Whenever they cast a spell or use a class feature that causes radiation damage it inflicts “rads” on both the target of the ability and the caster, although typically the caster receives a lower dose. The amount is specified in the spell or ability. Rads do not decrease naturally, though magic may be employed to reduce a creature’s rad count. The total number of rads a target has is called a “rad count”. If the rad count of a creature reaches a certain level it is inflicted with some negative conditions (see Table: Radiation Effects).
. 0-199: No ill effects.
. 200-499: The creature is sickened.
. 500-999: The creature is nauseated.
. 1000-1999: 1 negative level* and the creature is nauseated.
. 2000-2999: The creature is nauseated and takes 1 negative level*. Once below 2000 rads they heal these negative level at a rate of 1 per hour.
. 3000+: The creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 30) once per hour or be killed. For every 100 rads over 3000 the DC is improved by 1.
[u]Reducing Rads[/u]
The following spells have the following impact on the rad count of a creature.
. Cure Disease: Removes 100 x caster level of rads per casting.
. Neutralize Poison: Removes 500 x caster level of rads per casting.
. Delay Poison: Removes all ill effects of rads for the duration of the spell but does not reduce the rad count.
. Poison Immunity: A creature that is immune to poison cannot gain rads.
. Detect Poison and Deathwatch : This spell tells the caster how many rads the target has.
. Rest: You drop a number of rads per day equal to the amount healed from bed rest.
[u]Resisting Rads[/u]
A creature with a combined armor and shield bonus to their AC of 3 or greater or a natural armor bonus of 4 or greater takes half the normal dose of rads from an attack. This reduction can also reduce rads normally imparted to the caster.
Spells (Sp) An atomic adept casts arcane spells drawn from the atomic adept’s spell list. An atomic adept can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time and he knows all spells an atomic adept of his level has access to.
An atomic adept can cast as many atomic adept spells as he wishes per day. Casting a spell inflicts 10 x spell level in rads on him, unless otherwise stated. The rads are inflicted before a spell goes off.
Every time an atomic adept casts a spell he rolls a d100 and adds the spell level to the roll. If the result is ever 100 or higher, he goes into “meltdown” (see below). If the result is less than 100, the spell is cast without issue, but he adds the spell’s level to the “meltdown modifier”. He always adds his meltdown modifier to the d100 rolls he makes to cast spells. His meltdown modifier resets when he goes into a meltdown or when he rests for 8 hours.
If he ever goes into a meltdown, his spell fails and he suffers a nuclear strike (as if cast by himself) and gains 10 x his atomic adept level in rads. In addition, he creates an irradiated zone with a radius of 20 feet centered on him. Creatures who enter the irradiated zone gain 20 rads per round at the start of their turn. A zone remains irradiated for 2 hours per atomic adept level.
To cast a spell, the atomic adept must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. An atomic adept knows any spell on his spell list that he can cast. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an atomic adept’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the atomic adept’s Intelligence modifier.
1st Level Spells (DC 16)
Cherenkov Radiation, corrosive touch
2nd Level Spells[ (DC 17)
Atomic Immolation, radiation magnet, summon slag
Sphere Focus (Mind) Gain +1 DC with abilities from chosen sphere
Sublime: Ageless (Ex) Though the sublime creature is not truly immortal, it does not suffer the ravages or negative affects of old age. Upon reaching maturity, sublime creatures gain Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma as normal for a member of their species, but are otherwise unaffected by the passing of time. Creatures that advance based on age categories such as dragons still gain the benefits of this advancement. Sublime creatures never die of old age and they are immune to any spells or effects which cause aging.
Sublime: Armor Class (Ex) Increase natural armor by +2.
Sublime: Channel Positive Energy (3d6, 11/day, DC 22) (Su) The sublime creature may channel positive energy as a cleric. Substitute the creature's racial HD (minimum 1 for creatures with no racial HD) for cleric level to determine how effectively the creature can channel. If the creature has actual cleric levels (or other class levels which grant the ability), the creature's racial HD and relevant class levels stack when determining the effect of the channeling.
Sublime: Fast Healing (Ex) Gain Fast Healing equal to Charisma Modifier
Sublime: Positive Energy Affinity (Ex) The sublime creature's affinity for positive energy is such that it is immune to any damage caused by positive energy effects or attacks. Additionally, any healing spells, or other effects, derived from positive energy are doubly effective when applied to the sublime creature (roll as normal for the effect, adding any bonuses such as those derived from class level, and then multiply the result by two).
Sublime: Speed (Ex) Increase all the base creature's natural speeds by 10 ft.
Touch of Fear (DC 25) (Su) Touch attack target is frightened for 1 round
Touch of Joy (Su) Touch target can take the better of two d20 rolls for 2 rounds
Universal Love Charming Touch can affect non-humanoids
Warp: Extradimensional Storage You gain a permanent extradimensional space that may hold non-living material
Warp: Teleport You can teleport yourself as a standard action
Weaken Resolve Touch of Fear target is shaken for 3 rounds, even if they make their save.