Redemption: Tides of Numenera

Game Master Sebecloki

Excellent!

I believe that makes 3.
Any word of the rest?
Rednal still in?

I would love to know wether this will happen or not^^

I'm still interested. My character is mostly good to go - the final round of rule tweaks means I have a few minor changes to make. I've been traveling a lot recently and haven't been able to sit down and update it. That should happen this weekend and I'll post with an alias.

Nice! 4-5 people is also a good size I think!

I'm keen to see what this bunch of oddballs get up to. :D

So it looks like the issues that I was having have been mostly hammered out without me. Character design has changed a fair amount, but the level of power that people are coming up with using the new set of building guidelines is much more in line with the game that I had envisioned. If you'll have me I'm probably back in.

With that said, here's the Destined Attendant remade to be a gestalt monk (master of many styles, streetfighter)/mageknight (herculean scion, resizer) with mthyic paths in Champion and Trickster. She's now an Orang-Pendak instead of a Vanara because a miniature orangutan monk running around is even more fun than a monkey.

If anyone sees any issues with the build let me know.

I think we have enough people then. I won't be able to make the first post until Monday.

I just want to set out the expectations so this works out after all this time making characters -- this isn't a Paizo AP, and that's not really how Numenera works as a setting. There's no meta plot. The previous worlds aren't really explained. There's just weird stuff and episodic 'weird stories' kind of encounters.

I don't have a 'plot' -- the campaign will be almost entirely a sandbox determined by your characters actions -- you're amensiacs from a previous world who will be exploring.

You wake up underwater, without equipment, and the first thing you presumably have to do is find clothes and air.

@The Destined Attendant: Welcome back! And that does sound fun.

@Sebecloki: Cheers for the clear statement. I get the vibe that we'll be throwing our characters at this strange world and seeing what transpires. I look forward to it!

Lol, I actually left the Gear section empty except for one entry: "clothes". It seems I assumed too much! xD

@Sebecloki: Could we get a gameplay thread to dot into? It'll make it much easier to keep track.

I'll be replacing protean with druidic, to better fit Tongue of the Land ability.

Here we go. Almost everything is updated. I still need to fix the Vigor, Wounds, and Threshold information but everything else should be accurate. If anyone sees something I should address please let me know. Looking forward to starting this craziness. Adding the extra archetypes made for a bit more book keeping.

Edit: I also need to add a Mythic Archetype (3PP) that trades out Hard to Kill, because I just don't want to deal with figuring out how that works with Wounds and Vigor, and Armor As DR.

Edit Edit: I completely missed adding Mythic altogether. Adding that too.

So for the strength I assume you mean to split it 18(20/16) rather than the 18 (20/18) you have now. I'm also not sure how you're getting to those numbers in the stats (it looks like a 65 point build with just those taken into account.) Is there something other than changeling, sublime and the bonus at level 4 in the build that's adding to them? I'm not familiar with either of your classes (and in fact don't seem to be able to figure out where the reaper class or its archetypes are from,) so maybe they're adding something?

Yep, meant to split 20 / 16. Ability scores explained below, but I started with a 40 point buy. Both classes are 3rd Party; Reaper is Lost Spheres and published on the Spheres of Might site with the "Champion" rules (Might and Power hybrids), and Magister is hosted on D20PFSRD by Super Genius Games.

@Destined:
I bet you don't have all your wound points? That looks suspiciously low.

@RiverofSticks:
Did you read what we came to agree about powerlevel and especially sublime? You didn't write an entry under vigor as far as i can see, but 126 wound points are kinda more than double what everyone else seems to have.
The Unfettered Prince dropped the venerable thing and made it roleplay only.

@Sebecloki: Just so I get my first post correct, the horned helmet, a tattered belt and a loincloth okay for the Unfettered Prince? No mechanical benefits of course.

@Destined:

I bet you don't have all your wound points? That looks suspiciously low.

@RiverofSticks:
Did you read what we came to agree about powerlevel and especially sublime? You didn't write an entry under vigor as far as i can see, but 126 wound points are kinda more than double what everyone else seems to have.
The Unfettered Prince dropped the venerable thing and made it roleplay only.

My wound and vigor are still wrong. I need to re-do them with the lowered bonus and not counting sublime - yes I read that discussion, and will adjust Sublime as discussed. The existing number still included a +12 CON epic item that I have removed. I don't see any reason not to go venerable in this case, since we are going to self-limit... What I've posted is raw stats. I'll cap it to the table per the prior discussion. If it's an issue I can go to a younger stat array.

All cool if you do that^^
I know how easy it is to get carried away with building sometimes.

Currently i'm rethinking Bizan as well, because i realized something else:
White Haired Seducer Witch and Scaled Fist Elemental Monk.

Just imagine someone flying in the air, surrounded by a large cloud of hair which lashes out to strike, grab and constrict foes, all the while casting some other spells :)

@Hayato, that sounds awesome. Enjoy!

Should the Unfettered Prince perish before the campaign ends (a feat in itself!), I have other ideas.

Such as a specialist in polearms taking fighter with Polearm Master and Phalanx Soldier archetypes on one side, which are normally incompatible.

@Hayato, as far as wounds go, the only thing that might apply to them now that I haven't is the 5 hp from a mythic teir (they're over in Vigor right now, but it'd be easy enough to move them.) With the fitness modifier of +2 it's as though I had a 14 con for wounds, and without toughness or FCB I don't think I've got anything else that should be modifying that. The plan is for a higher defense, no awful saves coupled with evasion and stalwart, and a reasonable vigor to avoid needing to get into wounds too much, but we'll see how it goes. Having said that,

@TUP, I think that you should be looking at 8 more wounds and a Wound Threshold that's 4 higher. Looks like you were calculating them with a 16 Con instead of 20 (unless the Con should actually be 16.)

@River of Sticks, the Venerable was what I wasn't seeing, thanks. As far as whether to go for it, I guess I'd ask why do it instead of why not. The Sublime template (which offsets the physical penalties,) doesn't assume that it will be done offhand or it'd have them built in already. It's adding skills both from higher stats and more skill ranks, more abilities per day, more bonus spells, extra value for ability checks and so forth in a way that's not taken into account by the table limits that we've been talking about. None of it should be game breaking to either have or not have, but unless venerable is an important concept in the build I'm not sure why the default would be to take it.

@Destined Attendant: Thank you for reviewing and for pointing that out! Editing the prior sheet has had its bugs that I overlooked. Corrected now.

Thinking about wounds, vigor and armor as it's working here, I've gone ahead and slid some feats around to make it more likely that I'll be using the pummeling style to help deal with the DR that everyone is likely to be sporting. I'm also now remembering that the plan is to use the unchained action economy with 1d6 actions per turn. I have no idea how that will interact with some of my abilities (I guess Time Shift will now be a free action to move one action from next turn to this turn or something?) but I suppose it'll get sorted out as we go.

I've never played in a game with unchained action economy, but I imagine that combined with our characters, each turn should see a lot happen.

I'm frankly too tired to check out more complicated stuff right now^^

Unchained Action economy is cool and changes a lot of things, brings a lot more mobility as well. Tons of attacks though.
My opinion is that the 1d6 actions don't really make sense, at least not for attacks. Could bring in a lot more casting and grappling though! Good cheat sheet.
It's highly experimental and having only 1 or 2 actions could really turn the tables^^

the plan is to use the unchained action economy with 1d6 actions per turn.

Wait, what? Lol, did I really skip this?

GM,can you confirm this is going to happen?

I just wanted to update -- I'm totally planning to run this, but this is about my worst week of the whole year in terms of school and work -- I'll be moving to a weekend shift at my lab next week, and then have plenty of time to post on my games on weekday mornings.

I feel like we're still hammering out some rules issues. I need a little time to do some things for my other games, as well as buy the 9th world guidebook and figure out exactly what I'm going to do for this game.

Let's keep working on character design until next week -- I'm trying to keep up with this thread, but I don't have a huge amount of time to post this week.

I was planning one of the house rules being you roll 1d6 every combat round to determine how many actions you get.

Bolded for emphasis, from page 6ish in the thread. For what it's worth, I'd be much happier without the unchained economy, let alone the 1d6 actions, but I'm willing to roll with it if that's what happens. It was mentioned way back in page one or two of the discussion thread, and then largely hadn't been talked about until then.

My preference is also to leave out unchained action economy, but I'd be willing to give it a try if we do go with it.

Well, i think i'll be going with the witch/monk combo.

I like unchained action economy from another game and will love it with a witch :D
2 hexes and a flurry with grab and constrict in one round, or a spell and one hex, or hex-move-attack, just awesome.
Of course enemies can do that as well, so it's gonna be really interesting.

Hayato, I don't think Flurry will work that way - it's an additional attack a la' Two Weapon fighting. You have to take the individual attacks too. Unless you meant 2 hexes, an attack, and a flurry attack for two total attacks?

Yeah, unfortunately I think that as written the unchained action economy wouldn't allow a monk/witch to do any of those.

Hex is a supernatural ability that normally takes a standard action, so it defaults to taking 2 actions in unchained unless there's some special rule for it that I'm not seeing. The unchained flurry using the hair would be able to make a free grapple as part of one of the attacks, but constricting takes a swift action normally, so that would be an extra action after the flurry.

The plus side is that a single hex and flurry of blows for two attacks would work which is better than the normal action economy would allow, or spell and a flurry (though that would allow attacks of opportunity depending on positioning which hex doesn't.)

I think that the unchained action economy is a fascinating system, but it's enough of a change that I'd need to rework the build with that in mind (which, had I a better memory I might have done before.) There are enough special cases that need to be ruled on (e.g. does pummeling style, which normally works for all the attacks in a full action or flurry of blow now just work on all attacks made in a round? I'd guess the answer is yes which helps me some, but still needs to be sorted), especially when adding in all the third party content we'll be using, that again, if given the choice, it's not what I'd go with here. There are enough changes being made that things are fairly complicated already.

For the purposes of full disclosure, I can also see ways that I'd be able to make 6 attacks in a round with the standard action economy with my build, but I think that I'll be capped at 5 with the unchained economy (assuming things like the street fighter monk flurry strike ability to add an attack on an attack action at the cost of flurry of blows for full actions doesn't apply to every attack action which would get silly quickly and would potentially allow up to 10 attacks in a round,) so that might be biasing my opinion here to some degree.

Wait, never mind, I figured out how to get 6 in a round with the unchained economy as well without the silliness of , but I'd still prefer sticking to the standard action economy if given the choice.

I'm going to instead just allow a choice between the chained or unchained action economy every round

Interesting. It's hard not to find that reasonable. Nice work!

Sounds good.

Flurry of blows let's you do the flurry attacks on one of your attack actions, usualy the first.
White Hair has grab and constrict, grabbing happens on the successfull attack, if you succeed, then constrict happens to my understanding. Doesn't talk of a swift action anywhere.

,

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent when it makes a successful grapple check, dealing bludgeoning damage in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack.

I'm fine with both action economies! Might go with what the majority takes.

Flurry of blows let's you do the flurry attacks on one of your attack actions, usualy the first.

White Hair has grab and constrict, grabbing happens on the successfull attack, if you succeed, then constrict happens to my understanding. Doesn't talk of a swift action anywhere.

Constrict said wrote:

,

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent when it makes a successful grapple check, dealing bludgeoning damage in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack.

I'm fine with both action economies! Might go with what the majority takes.

no, I mean like every round you declare which one you're using. You can switch back and forth.

you can dot into the gameplay thread at your leisure.

Done!

Flurry of blows let's you do the flurry attacks on one of your attack actions, usualy the first.

White Hair has grab and constrict, grabbing happens on the successfull attack, if you succeed, then constrict happens to my understanding. Doesn't talk of a swift action anywhere.

Constrict said wrote:

,

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent when it makes a successful grapple check, dealing bludgeoning damage in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack.

I'm fine with both action economies! Might go with what the majority takes.

Flurry of blows (both chained and unchained monks) requires a full attack action in the standard action economy, and would be default then take 3 actions to do. Fortunately they've explained how the chained monk flurry of blows is specifically dealt with in the unchained action economy so we've got a better option than that.

If you have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can make two attack rolls on both the first and second attack simple actions taken during your turn; both of the attacks made on the second attack action are made at a –5 penalty. Further attack simple actions taken during the same turn allow only one attack roll, using either the weapon in your primary hand or the one in your off hand.

If you have the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can make two attacks on each of your attack simple actions on your turn, though you take all the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting, as well as the cumulative –5 penalty per attack simple action (all attacks made as part of the same attack action have the same penalty).

The flurry of blows class feature works in a similar way. At 1st level, you can make an additional attack with a –2 penalty on your first attack simple action during a turn. At 8th level, you can make an additional attack on both your first and second attack simple actions during your turn. At 15th level, you can make an additional attack on each of your attack simple actions during your turn. You must, of course, take all the penalties associated with those attacks.

That's a better match for what the chained monk normally does, but presumably the unchained monk would work approximately the same way for the first level attack (though without the -2 penalty I'd assume.) I'd guess that the 11th level attack would be added to the second attack of the round like the chained monk one was at level 8, but it's possible some other case could be made. The unchained economy also seems to make the ability to use ki to add an extra attack to flurry of blows much less useful as it cost a swift action to do that, so with the unchained economy it would seem to give you the chance to spend a ki point to use an action to attack at your highest attack bonus rather than with the -5 or -10 penalty.

As for the constrict for white haired witch, the archetype itself is where the swift action is mentioned for the maneuvers beyond the grapple:

In addition, a white-haired witch further improves her ability to control her hair as she progresses in level, gaining the following abilities:

Constrict (Ex): At 2nd level, when the white-haired witch’s hair successfully grapples an opponent, it can begin constricting her victim as a swift action*, dealing damage equal to that of its attack.

Trip (Ex): At 4th level, a white-haired witch who successfully strikes a foe with her hair can attempt a combat maneuver check to trip the creature as a swift action*.

Pull (Ex): At 6th level, a white-haired witch who successfully strikes a foe with her hair can attempt a combat maneuver check to pull the creature 5 feet closer to her as a swift action*.

Presumably those would all use int rather than str for the CMB calculation as the grapple did.

Dotted in to the gameplay!

Hayato Ken wrote:

Flurry of blows let's you do the flurry attacks on one of your attack actions, usualy the first.

White Hair has grab and constrict, grabbing happens on the successfull attack, if you succeed, then constrict happens to my understanding. Doesn't talk of a swift action anywhere.

Constrict said wrote:

,

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent when it makes a successful grapple check, dealing bludgeoning damage in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack.

I'm fine with both action economies! Might go with what the majority takes.

no, I mean like every round you declare which one you're using. You can switch back and forth.

Umm. I need to go back through some things now, because that opens up some options I had not considered before... I think my build stays the same, but tactics just got considerably more complex! Good thing I like crunch...

is anyone seeing their gameplay posts? I can still only see mine -- I'm wondering if the board is acting up again.

I made a dot post and deleted it immediately. It still added me as a player. Will the discussion thread be going up?

everyone, gameplay thread is already under way if you've finished a character and are waiting to post, please go ahead and get started.

ok tracking this on my campaign page, lemme know what the rules are for current incoming characters and ill put one together

character creation rules

on here i see something about 5/1 levels involving prestige class levels in the Numenera House Rules doc that also expounds upon color as alignment, but i dont really see specifics as to that. is that to mean that we are level 6 but one level must be a prestige class?

also is the "organizing feature swap" allowing to pull things from other classes that are not among the two we took?

ignore that and focus on the document I linked. We changed the rules a lot in the course of a 6 month recruitment. The color thing is linked in the google docs in the post above.

ah ok i got the link to it from the doc you linked so i was wondering

The first doc linked takes precedence. The only things adopted from any links are just the things that are linked (like alignment), not any level, class rules that conflict with the first one containing the links.

I'm considering a dread vampire, as the PC would be based on/inspired by Sorin from Magic.

However, if there's going to be a lot of underwater adventuring, might need to find a work around for their running water vulnerability beyond having a swim speed(as that might not make sense for the character).