PFS All for Immortality Hard Mode (Inactive)

Game Master KingTreyIII

Géatan, I'm not sure what you mean.
The Church of Abadar? Whose High Priest betrayed the Emir and stole the elixir? We didn't have an agreement with them, we had an agreement with the Emir.
I think we should give the vials to the Emir.

I've been sick so I haven't been able to keep up as much as I would like to over the weekend.

Thanks for letting us know, Tortuga. Hope you get better.

Géatan, I'm not sure what you mean.

The Church of Abadar? Whose High Priest betrayed the Emir and stole the elixir? We didn't have an agreement with them, we had an agreement with the Emir.
I think we should give the vials to the Emir.

And ask for an another chance because an attack from mythical creatures with a plot is not something we see often... When you are not a pathfinder. For Géatan, this is just tuesday.

(Assurances probably covers this. Lol)

We could also ask from some guidance from the other Venture-captain. But I suppose as a venture-Captain, Géatan may have the final word.

And we called our team to know what they have find.

Nox is in favor of returning the vials to Emir. He's the rightful patron and the one who hired us. Pathfinders should avoid welching on their word.

I agree with Nox. If we give the vials to the Emir, we will have acted with honor and successfully completed the mission.

As to Venture-Captains, Géatan, do you mean the other Venture-Captain who started the mission escorting the vial (Xavier Kahlvet, like our GM)? He is dead, but probably has the Prestige or gold to be raised (and if he doesn't, we can offer to help).

You are right, we do need to check in on the other Pathfinder teams. The Scroll-Seekers we know about. We need to find out how the others did tracking down the Aspis or investigating the planar creatures.

I still will insist that the Emir give the society an another chance as they also have lost a number of people in this adventure.

I suggest we also give him the papers the effect on the astral plane. (This will give him an explication for the first failure)

As for the others, we did send a message to those in absalom right?

Géatan, I don't understand what you are saying.

Why do we need the Emir to give the Society 'another chance'? We can succeed at our mission by returning the vials to him. Even though we failed initially (the vials were stolen), we have made up for that by recovering the Elixir. His city can have their auction and be prosperous and he will hire us again in the future.

Our mission was to make sure that the vials got from the Alchemists' Citadel to the Emir's Palace. We can now complete that mission. There is no need for 'another chance' from the Emir once we have succeeded. Of course he will trust us in the future.

As to the number of people the Society lost, let's see how bad it is. Sir Hendric is willing to spend gold on raising those who fell.

But, yes, we can give the Emir a copy of the papers on the effects on the Astral Plane.

Géatan, I don't understand what you are saying.

Why do we need the Emir to give the Society 'another chance'? We can succeed at our mission by returning the vials to him. Even though we failed initially (the vials were stolen), we have made up for that by recovering the Elixir. His city can have their auction and be prosperous and he will hire us again in the future.

Our mission was to make sure that the vials got from the Alchemists' Citadel to the Emir's Palace. We can now complete that mission. There is no need for 'another chance' from the Emir once we have succeeded. Of course he will trust us in the future.

As to the number of people the Society lost, let's see how bad it is. Sir Hendric is willing to spend gold on raising those who fell.

But, yes, we can give the Emir a copy of the papers on the effects on the Astral Plane.

How my.... I was sure the travel started in Emir palace. Wow, my head was really in the stars.

Now I understand the source of the confusion.

There is a lot going on and big walls of text, easy to miss a detail like that.

Well, sounds like we officially have a majority vote.

Ya, I agree as well. No reason to keep the elixirs, or give them to anyone but the Emir.

Heh, if Nox could get away with it, he'd keep the vials as a souvenir, but he wouldn't keep the elixir. Not that it's much of a temptation, what does a long lived race need with a extra 50 years when they are still in their youth? Talk to Nox again when he's old and grayer and has more to worry about with the whole "Old age" thing.

I agree as well.

So, I have two orders of business before we start Part 2:

1) I’m going to be showing my naïveté with PBP: I honestly don’t know how to get the chronicle sheets to you guys. A little help, please.

2) As you all will see from your chronicle sheets, this trilogy actually penalized the entire party if not everyone in the party has played all of the previous parts in the series. As such, not only will any players that we recruit be missing a significant chunk of the story, but having that sixth player will actually hurt the party just as much as help it. Now, I’ve actually been speaking with our spectator, Saashaa, and it turns out that they’ve only played parts 1 and 2 and would be willing to join in for Part 3. This, however, would mean that you all would have to endure Part 2 with five players in hard mode, which is by far the most difficult circumstance to send you guys through. I’m still going to stick with hard mode but I’d like to get a consensus on what you guys would like to do.

EDIT: 2 more things:

Géatan, you said that you switched to Grand Lodge at the beginning but your character has had the Scarab Sages logo this entire time; which one is it?

I never got Kaldane’s full character number—you left the number after the dash blank.

EDIT 2: this also counts towards Gameday VII, so you may roll for stuff now (still pretty confused about what to do on that front). Okay, Everybody rolls a d20 (pretty sure I'm excluded from that) and if you get a 19 or 20 then roll a d4 to determine what boon you won.

1d20 ⇒ 11

Still grand lodge. Scarab sage doesn't exist anymore.

I can't post on the gameplay section tonight.

As for the first question you sent it by internet.

ange.eau@gmail.com.

GM gets to roll for the player boon as well.

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 14

1) You want to save the chronicle page as a separate file and the use a tool like Acrobat Reader to fill out a copy for each player. Then you can either post those files somewhere, such as Google Drive or email them to the players (they would have to PM you their email address).

2) I feel like we are missing important pieces of a balanced team (a solid arcane caster for example). Several of us are leveling up and we'd probably have to play high tier which makes it even worse with 5 players. Honestly, if recruiting is going to cause problems, then I'd rather just drop the game and wait until I can use a replay star to play part 1 (and hopefully the rest of the trilogy) with a different PC in the future.

Really? I find that kinda weird for some reason...

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 1 ...wow...

1) With that in mind, I would personally prefer sending over e-mail--of course, some people can be very uncomfortable with that, if anyone here is of that variety then please say something, otherwise please PM me your e-mail.

2) I can see if I can find someone who just happens to have only played Part 1, but I don't know if such a person is there. Again, I'm just getting a consensus on what you all would like to do moving forward.

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 5

5-player part 2: I think we can do it. We don't need an arcane caster. Divine spells and UMD can cover a lot of gaps. But we do need Knowledge skills. That is a major liability that impacts our briefings to Pathfinder teams, our ability to identify monsters' resistances and magical defenses, and our ability to identify magic items. There are some items to help with this (like Incense of Eidos or Mask of a Thousand Tomes) and some spells (like Bestow Insight and Heightened Awareness). Sir Hendric can boost his Headband to +4 and get full ranks in a Knowledge skill. But since Kaldane is the only one with Detect Magic and Dispel Magic, we do need him to pick up a Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun Stone tied to Knowledge (Arcana) (I know he can't get an Int headband). It has a nice resonant power anyway. If he really doesn't want to get one, I can buy it and loan it to him.

If Tortuga wants to drop, we have both the 4-player adjustments and the Hard Mode adjustments, I guess. Tortuga, I think we can do it, but it is ultimately your call.

I would like one question resolved before moving on, and that is UMD for scrolls. Where the rules are clear, I do understand that you have to go with RAW. But where they are unclear, it comes down to your judgment. I do not think it is clear RAW that UMD for a scroll requires a CL check in addition to the UMD check. Indeed, every PFS GM I have encountered has not ruled it that way. They have ruled that the description in the UMD section details how UMD for scrolls works, and the CL check is for those not using UMD. Should you choose to continue requiring CL checks for using UMD, then this is what I would like to do: ignore the "Use a Scroll" function of UMD, and instead use the "Emulate a Class Feature" function of UMD, emulating the "Spells" class feature. This would give me the spell list of the class I am emulating and the caster level of (UMD-20). By hitting a 20, I would have the spell list with a caster level of 0, and thus be able to use wands. By hitting a 27, I would have the spell list and CL7 and thus could use scrolls of 4th-level spells. Coincidentally, this is exactly equal to the "Use a Wand" and "Use a Scroll" DC but does not require a separate CL check since it is granted by the "Emulate a Class Feature" function.

A ruling that UMD requires CL checks for scrolls (combined with a ruling UMD cannot be used to emulate CL) makes it increasingly difficult for non-casters (like Nox and Sir Hendric) to use scrolls. There are only a few ways for a non-caster to boost CL checks (Grand Destiny and Inexplicable Luck come to mind). There is no provision in the classes that are supposed to be good at UMD to boost their CL checks (e.g. Counterfeit Mage and Eldritch Raider rogues).

Consumables are a key tactic for PCs to patch holes in the party's capabilities. This prevents PFS scenarios from being "Haha, you lose because you didn't have the right mix of PCs." PCs can and should have scrolls and UMD to fill gaps. Smart preparation is part of the intelligent play that you need to meet the challenge of Hard Mode.

I will still play Part 2 no matter how you rule on the CL checks, but it will impact my purchases.

I could sell my headband of intelligence and take one for Arcana. (In fact changing IT a dual int cha. So I could cast spell and we would lose linguistic.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you don't need to make a caster level check or emulate class feature for reading scrolls. That would make the Esoteric Linguistics feat just about useless.

I don't want to drop, but I feel like we had a difficult enough time as it is and increasing the tier makes everything harder by about 2 levels.

I'm all for going forward. I fully intend to power my way through this so long as we have the members to do it. We don't NEED an arcane caster, though as pointed out by Hendric we will be in a lot of trouble and have difficulty in being able to pull it off without some clarification on scrolls, because otherwise they'll be near impossible to use. Especially since I'll probably be using most of the cash from this run to buy said scrolls to make us more likely to handle situations, or up Nox's headband to a +4 for another knowledge skill same as Hendric.

boon roll: 1d20 ⇒ 17

Gaaah!!! Why is nothing ever clear?!?!

Ahem Sorry about that. I seemed to have been having a child-like tantrum. This specific debate is a freaking headache that I think I've finally come to a conclusion about.

Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check. This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.

Now, something to note about this usage of UMD is that it never once says that you activate the scroll. However, the first part of the paragraph should look fairly familiar:

Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

The "Use a Scroll" usage is merely the "Emulate a Class Feature" usage with an added stipulation (the minimum ability score). In essence, “Use a Scroll” is emulating the “Spells” class feature, and the “Spells” class feature specifies that you must have the minimum ability score in order to cast the spell (hence emulating the ability score). Since caster level is inherently tied to levels in a class with the “Spells” class feature then the answer—still within RAW—is pretty clear: Your “Caster Level” is equal to the result of your “Use a Scroll” check minus 20; which, if you’ve been paying attention, is the caster level of the scroll! Because you have a fake Caster Level equal to the scroll’s Caster Level, then the Caster Level check required for the scroll isn’t needed, as it only applies if your Caster Level is lower than the scroll’s.

UGH!!! That took way too much weird thinking to come to that conclusion. That is the ruling I am going with. However, the biggest problem is not the check to cast the scroll, it is the check to emulate a high enough ability score (which your wand key ring doesn’t apply to)—this, however, can be easily circumvented by increasing your belt so that you have an Int of 16. I personally just really don’t want to deal with Antimagic Field (as I feel that it’s a dick move when used on either side of the screen), but I want to deal with the UMD rules for scrolls even LESS!

TL;DR: The caster level check of 1+the scroll's CL is irrelevant unless you're NOT using UMD to cast the scroll. Now shut up and let me watch my Youtube video in peace! I really hate this ambiguity in the rules, in case you didn't notice.

I don't want to drop, but I feel like we had a difficult enough time as it is and increasing the tier makes everything harder by about 2 levels.

We need you.

I suppose I could by an Int ioun stone too. It would only raise my Int to 12 though.

@Tortuga: Well, it would give you 14 ranks in a skill of your choice, and that could be a Knowledge skill. Combine that with Incense of Eidos, and it's a 35 on a Knowledge check for a non-class skill, 38 for class skill (or 40 with a Cracked Magenta Prism Ioun Stone).

@GM: I think AMF is a necessary option. There are many magical effects that thoroughly screw over mundanes and there is almost nothing they can do about it. Maze. Power Words. Reverse Gravity. Waves of Exhaustion. Euphoric Tranquility. Those are the dick moves.

I've invested in good saves. I've invested in touch AC (Snake Style). But of course there are some spells that bypass all of those.

AMF is risky, costly, and annoying (recalculating everything, though that is easier in PbP), so I don't use it all that often. But it is a last-resort defense.

I understand your dislike for it and I'll try to be restrained. But do you have another suggestion for what I can do against a high-level caster using no-save no-touch spells?

wait... I am out of sub-tier?

This adventure would be very easy then.

how we are in 12-13?

I get a ki power at 14th level. I'm open to suggestions, but am leaning towards this one:

Insightful Wisdom (Su): A monk with this ability can spend 2 ki points as an immediate action to give another ally within 30 feet just the right word of advice to prevent disaster. If the ally can hear the monk, she can reroll a single attack roll or saving throw. The ally must take the second result, even if it is worse. A monk must be at least 8th level before selecting this ki power.

I wouldn't want to use it too often as it would eat up 2 of my 12 ki, but it could come in handy in a critical situation.

@Hendric: I understand your point. I mostly said what I did because my filter was off because I was extremely frustrated with how ambiguous the UMD rules were with respect to scrolls; I meant no hard feelings about AMF--by all means use it if it's legal--I just find it kinda ridiculous that, by the RAW, a Wish cannot get rid of it. (Plus I was mostly using it as an analogy for how much I hate the UMD scroll rules)

@Geatan: You (14), Hendric (13), Nox (12), Kaldane (14), Tortuga (13). Sum is 66, divided by 5 is 13.2. Even with Nuck Tuk (13) the total became 79 divided by 6, which is 13.1667.

Side Note: Who (other than Hendric) leveled up after this scenario?

Tortuga did, which puts us to 13.6 which rounds to 14 and thus high tier, just barely and with 5 players, so no 4-player adjustment. In other words the lowest possible level combination forced to play high subtier.

@Tortuga: that looks really good. While I will hope to give you other uses for your immediate actions (like Coordinated Charge), sometimes this may be the better option.

Speaking of Coordinated Charge, we saw with the dust cloud from Hover that it is thwarted by lines of sight.

Would Goz Masks have worked against the dust cloud? Or would we need something like Echolocation? I suppose Sir Hendric should pick up a potion or scroll of Darkvision for the more common ways of blocking vision. Like many generals, Sir Hendric is often stuck fighting the last battle, but he tries to never fall for the same trick twice.

Goz Masks specifically calls out vapor and silt, not flying debris.

@xavier: Sorry, I must have just spaced it out. my number is 26225-4 for Kaldane. You can feel free to email my chronicle to me at genma.200.sj@gmail.com

Kaldane is out of tier (being level 14; now 15 assuming that we get 1 xp).

So I feel that I should point out that, if we want to stay low tier, I can switch Kaldane for my Bard, who recently turned 12. He would have less spells and healing, but can buff decently and is pretty decent at knowledge skills. I'd prefer to keep playing Kaldane, but I'm more than happy to switch if someone doesn't feel comfortable with us going to High Tier. (to be fair, I have other characters in that range, but most of them don't have knowledge skills or Heals).

I would have to level him and spend some money, but if the group wants me to go that way, I can. Otherwise, I'll just level up Kaldane and keep playing him.

...this trilogy actually penalized the entire party if not everyone in the party has played all of the previous parts in the series.

Also, roll a d20 for Gameday, Kaldane.

Game Day FTW!: 1d20 ⇒ 12

Awww. Nobody got anything :(

Welp, off to reporting!

I am comfortable going high tier. Most of us will be in tier, except for Nox. Nox's Trap Spotter perception might not be quite high enough for Tier 14-15 (for example, Symbol of Death is normally DC 34) but a combination of Heroism and Elixir of Vision fixes that.

Bards are fantastic, but it looks like playing a PC that hasn't done Part 1 puts us at a disadvantage for sending the squads on missions. And Kaldane's spellcasting is very useful.

Agreed, we don't want that penalty, and the dispels alone where life saving.

Not to minimize your guys’ concerns (and very valid ones at that), but from the way you all are speaking it sounds like you all are either going to power through Part 2, or one of you’s gonna drop; in either case it doesn’t require further recruitment, so I’m going to begin Part 2.

Do I get any of my bane arrows back from the pathfinder crew or where they all used up?

Just deciding on purchasing.

For consumables (which arrows are in this case), either 10 are used or half of them are used—whichever is less. If they were durable arrows then they aren’t consumables and thus you get them all back.

Sweet!

Alright, so here is what I'm thinking.

I'll spend some prestige on retraining a skill point and pick up a mossy ioun stone. That'll give us a +13 on one knowledge check, and +8 on 3 others. I'll also foot the bill for a Incense of Eidos, since I have the least needed demand for expensive items. I've got the 5 prestige to spare.

So with that change over, I can now cover the following knowledge at least for sending our group out.

Engineering +8
Geography +8
History +8
Arcana +8
Local +13
Dungeoneering +8

And I'll just reduce my Disguise by 4. Now, I can do it again if needed if you think, but that's another 5 prestige and then I'm getting dangerously low. Thoughts?

I still have to finish leveling up but I plan on continuing.

I’ll also need everyone to roll day jobs once more, seeing as this is a new scenario.

So I am having doubts about the Headband boost. It's very expensive (12K).

With the Incense, the Headband is really not needed for the mission briefings if I just scatter a few skill points.
Here are some relatively inexpensive boosts to Knowledge skills:
Heroism (+2 Morale)
Heightened Awareness (+2 Competence)
Bestow Insight (+2-+6 Insight)
Tears to Wine (+2-+10 Enhancement)
Spend 1 PP for +4 on any one skill check (untyped)

Tears to Wine is +2 from a 25-gp scroll, or +10 from a 4,000-gp Page of Spell Knowledge loaned to Kaldane. Also boosts Wis-based skills like Perception, Sense Motive, and Heal. And one casting should let all of us plus our Pathfinder teams benefit since it would affect 7 cubic feet of liquid.

Tears to Wine looks like a really good spell.