ZEITGEIST (Inactive)

Game Master Whack-a-Rogue

OK, I'll bite.

I am 47 years old, live in the U.K., and have been playing rpgs since I was 9 when my dad (an avid gamer) got a new game for Christmas - Dungeons and Dragons. Starting with whatever toys we had on hand to represent characters and monsters (so e.g. Lego knights and plastic animals), it quickly became a family favourite so much so that we graduated to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons when it came out, swapped the Toys for lead miniatures and gradually emigrated to V. 2.0, V.3.0 and v.3.5. AD&D has always been a favourite, despite forays into other rpgs.

When v.4.0 came out, We were a bit perplexed and alarmed. V.3.5 had not run it's natural course and We were a bit worried that Wizards of the Coast were trying to do to AD&D what they had done to Magic the Gathering (another perennial favourite) and bring out frequent 'must-have' expansions and revisions, forcing the would-be gamer to constantly buy new material. We therefore decided to eschew v.4.0 and see if it was worth the investment. The consensus was that it was not, and so we avoided going that route.

About this time, our main gaming group (my brothers) began to break up. Two of my brothers now live overseas and the third has no interest in a 2 player game, so although I played a few tabletop games of Pathfinder when it came out with brothers who visited, I mostly was unable to play at all, there being no suitable groups nearby (and with 5 children, one of whom is disabled, my ability to commit to a round the table group is limited). Finally, in frustration I turned to online play where I have been for the last 2 years. I have been in several campaigns (and the first campaign I joined is still going); although a great many of the games fizzle out mostly due to GM inactivity, and one game has recently had a GM change (all the players wanted to continue but the GM fell inexplicably silent. After a suitable period of waiting, we accepted the offer of another GM to take over); I have finally settled on a few campaigns I feel I am able to commit to.

I like characters that have options, so Gishes and skill monkeys predominate. I have been itching to play an investigator for a while, as it combines elements of both these, and it seems to me that it would fit nicely in this campaign (both in terms of world setting and the role called upon). My idea is to have someone who is the son of a professor of applied alchemics at the Pardwright University; from a young age he has had the run of the campus and attended many different lectures there, from his father's applied alchemics to Military science. As a Polymath, he is able to understand all of them but has neglected to specialize, seeing worth in cross-disciplinary applications. His lecture attendance coincided with many attendees from RHC, and his formal association with them began when the RHC began an investigation on university grounds. Finding the case of interest, he was able to reach conclusions before the investigating officer, and often found himself steering the investigation subtly onto the right track. His perspicacity was also noticed by the investigating officer, who in turn has followed his career and recommended him for recruitment to the RHC.

Do the thing, Zhu Li!

Dear me, a game in a large, steampunkish city and we can't play as benders kineticists, what has this world come to?

Part 2

Name: Salomon 'Shale' Caine

Race: Oread

Class: Yamabushi(Spherecaster Archetype Unchained Monk)
Nature(Earth), Enhancement(at least including drawbacks: Bodily Enhancements, Consciousness Linked), Healing
Spiritual Bond/Meditation/Focus-flavored.

Theme Feat: Martial Studies(Martial Scientist into Polyhistor)

Background: Salomon grew up in Shale(one reason why he got nicknamed so by his co-workers, who already had a Salomon among their ranks, and needed to distinguish between them).
A classic family, his parents, an older brother, a younger sister. When his older brother had come of age, he started his own life, working down at the dockyards as shipbuilder, finding a wife of his own. Salomon and his sister still would visit him regulary. One evening, his sister did not return. Her body was found near the docks, the next morning. Her death came as a shock to Salomon, and his family. His mother was crushed, his father lost all faith in other people, and his brother felt guilty. Salomon felt...lost. In this difficult time, one of his uncles(mothers side) took him in. He lived in a remote village near some mountains, serving mostly as a connection between a mining village further up the mountain and the rest of the world, transporting goods and providing supplies.
His uncle was man of simple needs, but wise. Their cottage was without many luxuries, and there was little to do other than talk, contemplate, or work. To his surprise, Salomon found that such helped him find inner peace, to come to terms with what happened and look for a new purpose in life. Staying with his uncle, he learned more about harmony, and about how perfection must always come from within.
A few year later, he felt ready to face life on his own again. His parents had moved, unable to stay in Shale any longer, and his brother had joined the Navy, working as technician aboard a ship, rather than stay at the docks. He returned to Shale, to face his demons there, then allowed himself to move on as well.
Flint was rapidly expanding, and he decided to head there. Rather than look for work in it's factories or industries, he joined the police force, in honor of his sister, to try and make a difference...try and save someone to spare them and their families the same fate and pain.
Then, another 2 years later, news reached him that his father had been killed when he resisted being arrested on charges of treason, conspiracy with foreign powers, and smuggling.

RHC: Salomon, who had a outstanding record with the regular police, transferred to the RHC to prove his fathers innocence. He spent over a year going through paperwork, doing inquiries and further investigations into the case, before he learned that his father WAS guilty, without a doubt. There was more to it, though, and Salomon was opting to set things right, bring down the whole organization behind it, to atone for the sins of his father, because it was the right thing to do, and to find out the REAL reasons.

No image yet! - Not so easy to find a proper image(that is not Diablo 3 or Warcraft-based). I'll look some more, to have something in time for phase 3.

Complete
Almonihah - Human Shifter (Martial Scientist)
Fighting Chicken - Human Eliciter (Gunsmith)
G-unit - Human Rogue (Yerasol Veteran)
JonGarrett - Tiefling Machinesmith/Crypt Breaker Alchemist (Technologist)
Lithrac - Deva Time Oracle (Skyseer)
Mark Thomas 66 - Human Occult Oracle (Spirit Medium)
MordredofFairy - Oread Yamabushi Monk (Martial Scientist)
pdprong - Eladrin Primal Hunter Barbarian (Vkeshi Mystic)
Phillip0614 - Dwarf Musket Master (Gunsmith)
Sapiens - Risuri Picaroon Swashbuckler (Yerasol Veteran)
Scaffold Kane - Human Machinesmith/Archivist Bard (Technologist)
That Sean Fellow - Half-Elf Investigator (Spirit Medium)
Whiskey and a Bonesaw - Risuri Swordmaster (Martial Scientist)
-----------------------------------------------
@Fighting Chicken: You've surprised me with your Theme feat. :-) I'm interested to see what your plans are for Sorala.

@Gavmania: Nice to meet you. :-) To be honest, I'm surprised there's only been one Investigator submitted thus far. It was my first thought when I started reading through the AP. I look forward to seeing your submission.

I'm a bit curious as to why nobody's been interested in being a Docker or Eschatologist. ;-)

I've been educating myself on Spherecasting and I'm quite tempted to just say forget Machinesmith for now and just go ahead and prepare everything for being a Sphere Bard. The creation sphere has my eye for flavor purposes.

I'm a bit curious as to why nobody's been interested in being a Docker or Eschatologist. ;-)

To me the docker theme seemed to lend itself to disloyalty (maybe I read to much into it. ) I thought about the Eschatologist theme and it would fit my PC but I thought it would make him more negative/ nihilist then he already is.

*Also, my first thought was investigator too, but I avoided it as I thought there would be about 20 of them submitted. Plus, it is nice to see a recruitment that allows the legendary rogue (great product!).

Not really that I have anything against the Docker or the Eschatologist as they are...just that I've been enamored with the idea of playing a Dwarven rifleman ever since I first saw the picture I'm using for my character in the profile and, seeing as I don't really fancy firearms in traditional fantasy settings for the most part, this was the first chance I've really had to play a gunslinger. I had to take it!

@Fighting Chicken: You've surprised me with your Theme feat. :-) I'm interested to see what your plans are for Sorala.

Me too! I wanted something that fit but not too perfectly. It has something to do with her brother, but I'm not sure just what yet. PC creation takes me a long time, and happens in bits and spurts. I'm glad that this recruitment is being done in stages, because I've got a long way to go to flesh the character out.

Just realized my icon has pointy ears. I may change that, seeing as she's human :)

I'm a bit curious as to why nobody's been interested in being a Docker or Eschatologist. ;-)

I quite like the feel of the docker, but as G-Unit stated above, it struck me as a bit in conflict with the starting conceit of the AP that we're essentially loyal agents of the government.

I'm a bit busy this morning, but I'm going to see if I can throw together a (slightly refluffed) Truenamer.

I'm still interested, just had a busy weekend. I'll have a completed Phase 2 concept up by tonight.

I actually really liked Eschatologist...especially with the Logos flavor.
Alas, the unavoidable/unhealable selfdamage of their Theme Feat seemed harsh(especially because others get to avoid it or resist it), and the PRC while flavorful not having great synergy with the unchained monk base class.
My original concept idea was actually going to use Eschatologist regardless of the limited utility, simple to pick up Logos.

To be honest the Investigator Psyforensic archetype also fits my concept, and even as an Oracle it's kind of how I'd play her. Just a matter of how overt her interaction with the spirit world would be.

Also the idea of an opportunity to play a Steampunk style version of the Ghost Whisperer just seemed to scream Oracle.

@G-unit: The customization of the Legendary Rogue is what I like the most about it. If there's anything you're planning to swap out, let me know. I'm pretty flexible.

@Rednal: An Eschatologist Truenamer who takes the Logos PrC is another of my Zeitgeist PC concepts. ;-)

@Scaffold Kane: Entirely up to you. :-)
---------------------------------------------
I get where everyone's coming from regarding the Docker. Its intent is to give you a connection with the "average working joe" - which can come in handy on occasion. The Eschatologist's power is highly situational but has its uses. I just think the Logos PrC has some really awesome abilities. :-) Really, all nine of the Theme Feats are great; I just found it interesting that those two didn't have any takers.

Now that you mention it, I could just as easily flavor in Docker instead of Technologist for my character. My character is supposed to be an appeal to that average joe. I just wanted her to aspire to be a great magical inventor.

Tell you what, though. Go ahead and mark me down for Docker (except my character still works on the subrail and not the docks). I'll make it work. I'm a bard after all. XD

To start things off, tell me about yourself. How long have you been playing Pathfinder? What do you like/dislike about the system? Are you experienced with the PbP format? If you are, but your game/s ended early, what happened? What kind of combat/social balance do you like? Do you have previous experience with the Zeitgeist AP?

OK, I started with a brief introduction, to answer the rest:

I am not sure when I started playing Pathfinder, I've been playing online about 2 and a half years, I guess I played it off and on a few times for a couple of years before that. I don't like that there are so many Feats and Archetypes and about 80% of them are not worth getting; it makes it difficult to introduce new players to the system. I am looking forward to the day when they introduce the next version that cuts out the obsolete stuff and pares it back to what it should be. I like combat and analysing the tactical situation - which is not easy in a pbp format. I also like investigations and solving problems. I like a bit of Role play - enough to set the scene - but get annoyed with too much rp for rps sake, wanting to move the story forward. I have never encountered the zeitgeist AP before looking at this thread, but it looks really interesting.

An Eschatologist Truenamer who takes the Logos PrC is another of my Zeitgeist PC concepts. ;-)

I originally contemplated a Word Caster(if they were in) going into Logos, then decided I don't really have enough time to dive into the system(which intrigued me for a while, but I never managed to use it), and settled on using Skilled Casting/Perform(Oratory), as being the next best thing to go into the class with style.

so....what I'm trying to say:
If nobody else does(*looks at Rednal*), I'll swap over to Eschatologist and go Logos later, taking the hit in combat performance. Some small sacrifices must be made in the name of flavor, right?

I quite literally flipped a coin between Eschatologist and Martial Scientist; given we now have more martial scientists than any other theme I'm starting to regret my decision a little bit (not enough to submit a new character; I'm proud of what I made with Ellena). The Logos' abilities were almost too cool to pass up.

I really do appreciate that, for most of the theme feats, EN Publishing did a great job encouraging creativity and using the environment.

I wasn't planning on Eschatologist. In fact, I was thinking something closer to the Fey. XD

I wasn't planning on Eschatologist. In fact, I was thinking something closer to the Fey. XD

"I approve! Go ahead, I'm cheering for you! Fey FTW! See, human, I wanted you to make an Eladrin Bloodrager! But no, you needed to create some fancy non-fey. DESPITE FEY BEING AN OPTION! Rednal got it right!"

I realized I'm not likely to get another chance soon to talk about this, and I'm curious what you all have to say on the subject: I don't think Icy End of the Earth is a good theme feat.

When I brainstorm character ideas for something like this, I judge my concepts by how self-consistent they are, whether they fit the campaign, and their potential for character growth. I knew from the start I wanted to build towards either Martial Scientist or Logos, but building a decent Eschatologist was like pulling teeth. 'The study of the end of things' is a tough starting point for a character; what character growth it implies is in a generally negative direction that the mechanics of Icy End of the Earth re-enforce. Your concepts, assuming you want to keep 'Eschatologist' as a centre-point, are effectively divvied up into dour contemplative/fanatic/'New-Orleans-Funeral' Hedonist; all of which violate at least one of the guidelines mentioned above. All of this isn't to say that I wasn't able to throw together some interesting (to me) characters; I was. (The silver medal went to a suicidal, alcoholic Deva who is trying to end his cycle of reincarnation) The issue is, none of them worked as both an Eschatologist and a Logos.

I have absolutely no idea why the Eschatologist and the Logos are linked; the two share no thematic similarities beyond 'Philosophy!' and have zero interplay mechanically. If anything, I would expect the Logos to be descended from the Docker; theirs seems a more active, public form of philosophy focused more on convincing people than the Eschatologist's religious and scholarly underpinnings.

Maybe I just prefer to start with a happy character before I have horrible things happen to them, rather than a character that just gets more miserable. Either way, I don't like Icy End of the Earth.

Thoughts?

I still hope to post a concept that I have brewing in my mind, I've just been unavoidably busy the last few days.

Okay, so I'm refining my idea... and now I'm leaning towards a Skyseer Ethermancer. XD *Gets started*

@Whiskey and a Bonesaw: I agree with you, the Logos is amazing but Icy End of Earth looks bad from both a narrative and mechanical perspective. While the other theme feats are both linked to the theme and useful in various circumstances (except that I can't forgive The Man With Two Guns Is God for being totally useless for musket snipers, my first concept), Icy End of Earth deals a small amount of damage around you AND to yourself, which just seems silly. Especially because Logoi are likely to stand far from the frontline. And I agree that nothing in the lore suggests that Logoi should be eschatologists, there should be other philosophies.
On a secondary note, you made me churn out my most outrageous concept ever: a Deva Reincarnated Druid, which could lead to massive headaches for DM and players alike.

who he is

Jebediah Goodfellow, Jeb for short

why he joined the RHC

Well, it's more interesting than kicking around the campus all your life, plus you actually get to apply some of that knowledge, not to mention your helping your country.

your race and class

Human Investigator (Empiricist)

preferred theme feat

Technologist (look, technology is the way of the future. My time at the university has confirmed that.)

party role

skill monkey, face, Team buffer, can do melee striking

and an avatar...

Will set up later

Brief background:

His father, Alexandr Godfolov, was an immigrant from Crisillyir. The immigration officer could not spell or pronounce his name so he changed it to Goodfellow, which the family has used ever since. Starting as an apprentice Alchemist, his father eventually rose to the position of Professor of Applied Alchemics at the Pardwright University, and young Jebediah grew up among the hallowed halls of learning, attending lectures that took his fancy, joining the functions there and receiving a first class, though somewhat unfocussed, education.

It was while there that he stumbled across an ongoing investigation by RHC officers. Using his prodigious knowledge of sciences and the University, he was able to assist the investigators. In response, the chief investigator recommended he apply for a position with the RHC. Seeing that he would otherwise just wile away his days at various lectures, learning things that would never get used, and that he could actually make a difference with the knowledge he had accumulated, he agreed.

Insightful stuff.

I know you're not addressing me in specific or anything but I figure I've got time and I may as well go in for a penny (and perhaps a pound as well).

I will agree with you that the theme feat is painfully specific. While the other theme feats give you a foundation for a character as well, they're flexible in what they can mean and how they apply to a character. I think my character's ability to freely switch between Technologist and Docker without altering my backstory is a testament to this. From what I've observed of the other themes, this is consistently the case. Except for the Eschatologist. It seems like it's locking you into one specific mindset.

Ultimately, it's certainly one thing to be a proponent of a specific philosopher's ideas and another entirely for a theme to be based on someone who follows those ideas. There's a disconnect there. I'm a fan of David Hume and Karl Popper but those men far from shape any significant part of who I am or how I think. To carry their conjectures to their extreme would be an argument from ignorance. I'm not saying people don't do it but I am saying that it comes with a burden of specificity that simply shouldn't be made into a theme feat. If it's to be taken as written, it cramps creativity.

Now, as someone who studies philosophy, I can attest that this is quite the opposite of what it means to be "Logos". That being said, you can always bend the flavor to be more positive or, even if you decide not to go that route, at least make it so that your character grows as a result of this "knowledge" (ha).

The closest example I have is a character I'm playing in a homebrew game at the table with some friends. The character had a vision of the future that involved the destruction of at least a significant number of people resulting from a big bad primordial magic crystal. My character is fairly touchy about the subject and is happy to share the experience if it's a dire enough circumstance. However, even armed with the "knowledge" that the world is going to end, he has decided to make something out of himself and his life by specifically making the world a better place and trying to stop the cause of that end--even if it's deterministic (I'm feeling Compatibalism for this character though.

So you could certainly make a character who either follows Mr. Heid's philosophies and stops there or one who sees that the philosophy isn't all there is to life and grows as a result. Who's to say you can't be convinced that it's wrong outright but you get to keep your neat ability because you had that mindset so strongly for so long?

If Ellie makes it into this campaign with an Eschatologist, I'd expect some philosophical ramblings. XD

More insightful stuff.

I'm by no means a student of philosophy (the only philosopher I've read in any detail is Eliezer Yudkowsky and I had to look up Compatibalism), but it seems... I'm not sure of the word. Disingenuous, maybe? The idea of creating a character concept explicitly to run away from it while keeping the mechanical benefits isn't something I had considered, and I think it walks a fine line between a legitimately excellent character concept (a member of a cult who believed the world was going to end two years ago?) and simple cheese. The potential for growth is very real though.

Philosophical ramblings very much welcome; while Ellena is still figuring out how she wants to think about the world I'd certainly enjoy them if I got in!

'The Man With Two Guns Is God'

I've always had a bit of a bone to pick with the whole 'dual wielding flintlock pistols' thing, so that theme feat barely even registered.

Side note from this whole discussion, I thought up a wild, not-at-all-well-maybe-slightly-serious idea for a Eschatologist that dovetails into Logos: A character obsessed with the conclusions of speeches and closing arguments. He would probably have the in-universe equivalent of 'Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam' tattooed on him somewhere.

Continuing insightful stuff.

That's certainly worth thinking about.

I'm more story-centric in my considerations of abilities unless they're incredibly powerful options being thrown around narratively just to justify some really powerful option. Resurrecting the dead as a swift action once per day might fall into this category. Haven't given it a lot of thought.

I think the downfall of the theme lies in this question: how many different character concepts and personalities can you think of that all fall into this theme?

If you can think of more than maybe three, I'd be legitimately interested in hearing them.

Then ask yourself the same thing about every other theme. I can think of about a dozen for the Docker off the top of my head.

Intriguing things.

I think I'll get in on this discussion too if we're feeling froggy.

Dual wielding flintlock pistols is, while cool sounding, a bit impractical. I definitely think they could have done better focusing the theme on any sort of gunslinger.

Then again, it's a bit redundant if you consider that there's a Gunslinger Paizo class.

I have the parts of your character work categorized in my mind as a bit of a hierarchy. Race is most general (it also almost completely determines biology), class is next most general, then archetype, and theme is meant to narrow the focus of your class/archetype.

Seems to me like "Gunsmith" is trying to be a gunslinger archetype. If you aren't a Gunslinger, is there much point in being a Gunsmith?

To argue mechanically, though, you could draw and fire two flintlock pistols to start combat before ultimately swapping to a musket for the remainder of the battle. For a single round, you can avoid AoOs for shooting. That's useful to anyone slinging guns, musket or otherwise. I'd almost take quickdraw anyway just to sling my pistols and then swap to my musket.

I don't know though. Pay me no mind. XD

@G-unit: The customization of the Legendary Rogue is what I like the most about it. If there's anything you're planning to swap out, let me know. I'm pretty flexible.

Sounds good, I'll start throwing out ideas once we get to the build portion of the recruitment.

-G

A deep and thoughtful analysis.

I'm probably just acting like a spoiled brat about that feat, after all it's a freebie. I'm used to the Campaign Traits mindset of "I'll pick the one I like most flavor-like, since benefits are circumstantial and thematically appropriate" that when I see things with more powerful effects, I feel betrayed if they are appropriate for flavor but lackluster regarding mechanics.

On the subject of philosophy I was wondering about the Logos, and I realized that they remind me of the Sophists: mercenary philosophers who could argue for and against any point of view.

So you could certainly make a character who either follows Mr. Heid's philosophies and stops there or one who sees that the philosophy isn't all there is to life and grows as a result. Who's to say you can't be convinced that it's wrong outright but you get to keep your neat ability because you had that mindset so strongly for so long?

I agree that it's a fine concept, but I still think that's locking you in a story if you want to get that class.

For instance, maybe there could have been a "Philosophy Student" theme feat, allowing a permanent Undetectable Alignment and immunity to Zone of Truth, because you're just so good with words that you can tell a lie using only true phrases. But I'm rambling.

One thing that pains me is that I'd love to join you in philosophical ramblings but (assuming that we both get picked) Alice is not the kind of character to be interested in philosophy :(

Name: Tarah Aranlias

Race: Eladrin

Class: Fey Adept

Role: Manipulator and Party Face

Alignment: Something around CG

There's a rough concept for my character. If I'm missing something or you have any questions or comments, please let me know!

Not meaning to interrupt on the discussion, because I feel while logically other philosophical schools would ALSO need to allow entry into the Logos, purely by flavor, the same could be stated for a number of the other PRC's.

What I take offense with is how the theme feat works. Let me elaborate my thoughts:

All that said: Logos is still awesome flavorful...

...The Man With Two Guns Is God for being totally useless for musket snipers, my first concept)...

I don't think that's true at all. The only thing you miss out on with a musket sniper build, which is what I'm going to shoot (No pun intended, honest!) for with Azaghâl, is the part that lets you fire guns as if you had the TWF feat. You still get to use the musket as if you had Quick-Draw, which to me is much more useful than TWF to begin with, and you can still dual-wield pistols in a pinch. You also still get the benefit of requisitioning Drakran weapons without increasing their Favor cost.

Overall, I would say that the balance of the feat might tilt very slightly in the favor of pistols being used over rifles as your primary weapon, but I wouldn't give it any more than that.

@Azaghal: Alright, I had misread it and thought that you could only quickdraw pistols, also the requisition bonus is quite good.

Thought provoking conjecture.

There's actually a Student of Philosophy trait that allows you to use intelligence in place of charisma for Diplomacy checks made to improve someone's attitude toward you and Bluff checks made to convince someone of a falsehood (Basically all Diplomacy checks except those to gather information and all bluff checks except those to feint). I Was considering it. Depends on how stats are determined and such. Intelligence will be Ellie's best stat and philosophy is pretty important to her backstory.

Anywho--tangent on that over.

I've been thinking over your Zone of Truth suggestion and wondering if that's a possibility without a special ability. To avoid spamming the whole thread, though, I'll go ahead and share my thoughts in a spoiler.

Anyway, I agree that it would do better to broaden it to Philosopher or something to that effect and provide some social benefits as well as a bolstered defense of the mind. I might work on what it could be just for funzies at work today,

Convoluted brilliancy.

Oh, Student of Philosophy is incredibly beautiful, next time I play an investigator I'll surely get it.

...when I get to be an Evil Overlord you will be offered a place as trusted advisor.

Ummm, should we be worried?

Flattering words.

You bring a tear to my eye. This is the recognition I've been working for my whole life. XD

Well, that or law school. Haven't decided. Honestly, I'm not sure there's much of a difference.

Concerns

Yes. This is definitely a yes.

Yes. This is definitely a yes.

I know, right? This means I have to work to bring my plans to fruition faster!

...Er, I mean, I'm definitely not building a giant mechanical monstrosity with which to conquer the world. Definitely not. <.< >.>

A new challenger approaches!?

Zone of Truth vs Logic

Wouldn't the "vacuous truth" principle, applied in the example you spoilered, mean that the minion should technically answer that the wizard's tower is there, and also not there?

In your example, I would argue that since an empty set simultaneously does and does not have all properties of that set, the minion would have to respond as I stated, that the tower is both in the Goliath Peaks and not in the Goliath Peaks on the grounds that stating one of the premises, and not the other, is only a partial truth and that, to use the Yiddish proverb, a half-truth is a whole lie.

Of Cabbages and Kings

It seems to me that proper use of the 'Zone is less as an objective discovery mechanism and more as a companion to subtler interrogation; like the way polygraphs are used today. They give the prosecutor a chance to draw out guilt by offering the accused a seemingly easy way out of admitting their wrongs (I'm sure it wasn't your fault, you were just following Mr. Evil Overlord's orders). On a darker note, it also stops torture subjects from lying to you to make the pain stop.

Addressing Azaghâl's point, even given the ability to receive complicated, multi-part answers I'd still demand the questioner respond in binary yes/no statements. (Well, trinary. Yes/no/[silence]) It restricts your opponent's move set and puts the onus on you to ask appropriate questions; the loss of volunteered information is, in my opinion, worth the reduced risk of being misled.

Complete
Almonihah - Human Shifter (Martial Scientist)
Fighting Chicken - Human Eliciter (Gunsmith)
G-unit - Human Rogue (Yerasol Veteran)
Gavmania - Human Empiricist (Technologist)
JonGarrett - Tiefling Machinesmith/Crypt Breaker Alchemist (Technologist)
Lithrac - Deva Time Oracle (Skyseer)
Mark Thomas 66 - Human Occult Oracle (Spirit Medium)
MordredofFairy - Oread Yamabushi Monk (Martial Scientist)
pdprong - Eladrin Primal Hunter Barbarian (Vkeshi Mystic)
Phillip0614 - Dwarf Musket Master (Gunsmith)
Rednal - Human Ethermancer (Skyseer)
R0B0GEISHA - Female Eladrin Fey Adept (Vekashi Mystic)
Sapiens - Risuri Picaroon Swashbuckler (Yerasol Veteran)
Scaffold Kane - Human Machinesmith/Archivist Bard (Docker)
That Sean Fellow - Half-Elf Investigator (Spirit Medium)
Whiskey and a Bonesaw - Risuri Swordmaster (Martial Scientist)
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Great discussion about those two Theme Feats. I've enjoyed the read. Will also be modifying "Icy End of the Earth" next time I run this AP.

Regarding the other (interesting) discussion: I'm going to rule that Zone of Truth shuts down the vacuous truth principle. After all, if there is no wizard tower in the Goliath Peaks, you're telling a lie. However, you can easily answer "There is no wizard tower" or "I'm unable to answer that." There's also nothing in the spell requiring you to answer the question at all. A defiant silence is acceptable.

EDIT: I agree with Whiskey and a Bonesaw. It's just a 2nd-level spell, after all.
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We currently have 16 completed character concepts. As such, I'm no longer allowing new applications. If you've completed Phase One but are still working on Phase Two, I'll give you a little more time to get caught up.

Well, I'd better cough up an avatar, then. Just like this one.

Dictator's decree.

Perfectly reasonable I'd say. I just thought it was a fun idea to explore.

I don't think this is an argument I'd actually bring up at the table anyway. I'd lose all of my friends if I did. XD

@ Jebediah look at the discussion page someone with equally good taste thought that was an appropriate avatar too. ;)

Oh, right. Avatar. I should get on that.

...

I'm so bad at picking out human avatars. XD A consequence of always playing Kitsune and Nagaji and Tengu and whatnot, I suppose.

I think this is the first time I've really had trouble finding an avatar picture. Still, one avatar ready to go.

I say, Someone else had the bad taste to pick this avatar. Guess I'd better get another.

Something like this.