Pretty much. I checked before making my rousing 'we need to go' speech =p
When I reread your post it clearly stated that Jie attacking would provoke an AOO. For some reason when I first read it I thought it meant that all 4 of us were on the wolf but anyone else would have to provoke to attack. It was all me. Sorry.
Also, Grum and Jie still have AoOs if they want them, and then the whole group has another round of actions.
Alternatively, if you want to just move onward, letting the wolf run away is also an option.
120 XP each for the wolf fight, plus 4 Provision Points and 25 gp.
Tushina and Shillein are both 1st-level commoners.
80 XP each for this wolf, and the Riverwood Shrine map is up at the top of the page.
And realizing that Benedict is the only one who calls this area home, I'll be playing up that aspect. He knows some of these people and wants to save as many as he can.
But if the rest of you feel differently, he'll go along.
Thanks for the map! Jie is all for saving as many townsfolk as we can.
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My apologies if it felt like I rushed the start of this encounter unnecessarily. I should probably explain my approach to such things. Basically, debate goes really, really, really slow in PbP, and few things I have seen are as bad for keeping the momentum of a game going. (And we've probably all been around the boards long enough to know what happens when a game loses momentum.) Which is not to say that debate can't or shouldn't happen - but when someone proposes a plan and we reach a majority of supporters without anyone objecting (i.e. three "yes" and no "no") then I am very inclined to assume that's what is happening and start moving things forward. If there's an issue - if someone needs to change something after I start to push things along - I am totally okay with retcons if need be.
Also, while I'm thinking about it, with regard to initiative: my interpretation of initiative is that it (among other things, like physical reaction time) marks the amount of time needed for someone to observe and process the battlefield, the exact location and nature of enemies, specifics of terrain, etc., etc., etc. So anything you might want to do that would in any way involve needing to know something about the opposition, the terrain of battle, or anything you don't know before initiative is rolled, you can't do it.
Thanks.
I think my plan made sense to me from a cinematic point of view, and from a pre-3E point of view. The ability to open the doors and start talking without having to wait his turn.
It used to be that when you encountered creatures, you would first do a reaction roll - a chance to talk, bluff, or whatever - and if their reactions turned hostile, then you would roll initiative. (The example in Moldvay even has an elf attempting to basically bluff some hobgoblins.) Combat beginning immediately upon contact doesn't allow for that sort of interaction.
Given the way d20 initiative and surprise rounds work, I don't know if there is any way to pull this sort of trick. Maybe if we know they are there and they don't know we are there, we can get a surprise round in which one PC opens the door and another does a standard action Bluff check?
Just for future reference.
That's pretty much how it would have to work. Some way to see through walls, maybe. But within that context, it might be possible. Basically, it would involve having such an advantage of information over the other group that I would feel that initiative wasn't necessary.
Here is a compilation of the 'loot' we have so far gained and who has claimed it as far as I can tell. Let me know if there is a problem. A is Amarakang, B is Benedict, G is Grom, J is Jie and L is Lissa, I assume the rest of the loot is currently being carried by the townsfolk we have rescued.
Loot List 3-17 (Does not include Provisions)
Hobgoblin Attack on Inn
set of Medium studded leather armor (x2)
longsword (x2) G, B
longbow (x2) G, J
quiver with 20 arrows (x2) G, J
light steel shield (x2) B
masterwork backpack
heavy crossbow (with 20 bolts and 10 masterwork bolts)
clearly labeled potion of guidance (x8)
a wand L
a scroll containing three different spells L
Kitchen
longsword J
longbow and 20 arrows L
studded leather armor
light steel shield J
wand G
wand G
elixir (x2) G,G
set of juggling balls
Wolf in Ally Fight
25gp (5gp each)
Sorry Amkarang, I noticed I misspelled your name in the above post.
We need a name for this hob scout that is inigo montoyaing us.
We need a name for this hob scout that is inigo montoyaing us.
Hopefully I can get to the party soon. But I have this fear that I'll arrive just as the killing blow is struck.
You know, when looking over the treasure we've gotten so far I was really struck at how little has been claimed, especially by Amkarang. After this fight, Jie is going to take the Heavy Crossbow and bolts, 2 of the Guidance potions and the masterwork backpack unless someone claims it before then. Currently I feel that she has gotten a fair share, but no one is claiming this other stuff, so Amakrang, chime in with what you want or Jie is going to take it.:)
Well, let's let any of the civilian warriors arm themselves with the three Studded Leather and one of them with the extra shield. Jie will exchange the Longbow she currently took with the Heavy Crossbow.
120 XP for the fight.
Loot includes two potions, two flasks of alchemist’s fire, padded armor, studded leather armor, light steel shield, composite longbow (+2 Str) with 20 arrows, longsword, regular longbow with 20 arrows, handaxe, mwk battleaxe, backpack, bedroll, blanket, mess kit, small tent, three Provision Points' worth of supplies, 3 gp, plus the loot mentioned in the main thread.
You also pick up Rhyna (adept 2), 2 warriors 1, an adept 1, and four commoners 1, plus 12 Provision Points recovered from the shack and shrine together.
Can either of the adepts identify our various magic items?
Can either of the adepts identify our various magic items?
They can each attempt one item. (Adepts don't get unlimited castings of 0-level spells.) If you want to pick out two items for them to try, go ahead.
It's worth noting, of course, that anyone can use Perception to try to identify a potion, and you did pick up a couple from the axe-hob.
Next stop is the Trading Company, yes?
Warriors and aristocrats are proficient with all martial and studded leather, and of course the elf with you can use a longsword and longbow as well. Damage and AC are updated on the Campaign Info tab for those who are better equipped now; four suits of studded leather armor, four light shields, four longswords, and four longbows have been distributed to your followers at this point.
Hah! Well the two consecutive 1's on attack rolls are notable. There was also one on a Knowledge check.
But the laws of probability still hold and it will all even out in the long run.
(I suppose that isn't necessarily true for the source code for a forum's dice roller... Unlike a plastic polyhedron it really could be malicious towards a particular player and you'd never know...)
And source code can't be flung across the room in disgust and anger. :)
81 XP each for the fight.
Looting the bodies recovers three more sets of the Legion's standard kit: longsword, longbow and 20 arrows, light steel shield, studded leather armor. One of the victims' bodies in the trading yard also bears some worthwile, if unusual and potentially significant, loot: a wrist sheath loaded with a masterwork dagger, a potion, and what looks like a vial of some kind of poison. (A Craft: alchemy roll can potentially ID the poison.)
Also, though it might seem distasteful to Jie in particular, the slaughtered animals in the animal pen can potentially be butchered for some additional Provision Points - it would take about 5 minutes per animal, although you have enough followers that you can have them work on each of the three kills simultaneously if you choose.
Butchering animals for provisions won't bother Jie much. They are already dead. It's the senseless killing in the first place that bothers her, although I suppose the hobs have paid for it.
We're going to need the food, the animals are already dead, so I say go ahead.
HEALING FENG
I'm just wanting to feel out everyone's opinions on Jie asking Aubrin to use some of her healing on Feng. I realize he's not a player character, but he's an additional pool of potential damage taking.
I don't mind on principle, but I think given her low AC it would be best to keep Jie at range using a bow, and thus keep Feng away from danger if possible. I didn't really want to have Benedict move up in the previous fight - I'd rather we held in formation and had them come to us - but with Jie and Grum charging ahead there was really no choice.
Speaking of which, if we do develop a formation, is it better to have Lissa using glaive or tower shield?
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Can either of the adepts identify our various magic items?They can each attempt one item. (Adepts don't get unlimited castings of 0-level spells.) If you want to pick out two items for them to try, go ahead.
It's worth noting, of course, that anyone can use Perception to try to identify a potion, and you did pick up a couple from the axe-hob.
CORRECTION BECAUSE I AM DOOFUS-HEAD WHO KNOWS NOT HOW THE RULES IS.
Rhyna can attempt to ID your magic items with a total of +7 on the Spellcraft check (including an Aid Another from her fellow adept). She can basically only do so once a day, though, because adepts don't get unlimited uses of orisons, so if you have her try now anything you pick up later will have to wait until tomorrow for another try at IDing it.
Well that's just Grum's personality. He is a two-handed bruiser, whose fighting style is 'kill them before they kill me.' If you want him to stay back, give him an order and a clear marching order for him to do so.
Yeah, I had meant to get some feedback on marching orders and formations, but the next encounter happened pretty quickly. I hadn't even figured out where Lissa went because I can't tell if she's glaive or shield (her attack bonus implies both, which requires Shield Brace which she doesn't have).
Ideas about formations?
Lissa is either glaive or shield/kunai.
This.
She's often attacking with the glaive at a +2, which seems to imply a -2 penalty (+3 Str and +1 BAB). That's the source of my confusion. Glaive is better for second rank, tower shield better for first.
I would suggest Lissa and Benedict in front with shields, Amkarang and Grum in second with reach (Grum borrowing the glaive), and Jie with the civilians for ranged support and last line of defense. Willing to entertain ideas. Grum has a good AC even without a shield so could be first rank.
But this is the all-fighter party, not the all-barbarian party, so I think tactics are thematic.
Ideas about formations?
I'm not sure about formations, but I'd like to throw out some ideas about general tactics. Aside from Jie, I think we are primarily a melee butt kicking group. The hobgoblins have bows also and engaging them in some sort of ranged maneuvering contest, I think plays to our weakness. Also from a roleplaying point of view our characters are in a race against time, so killing everything as fast as possible allows us to rescue more people. I agree with perfect tactics we could have taken out those hobs and probably taken about half the damage we did but it would probably have taken about 2 more rounds. It's really a moot point but if Benedict talks to Jie and asks her why she charged, that's what she'll tell you. Keep in mind that on her horse Jie triples her damage output. I'd also complain about low ride checks being made to mitigate hits but that may be sore point for Benedict. I'm not even in the same ballpark as you are when it comes to rolling dice in this fight, and I'm not happy with most of my rolls. BTW, Jie is grateful you charged up beside her. When she charged she really thought that everyone else was going to be right up there with her. I remember looking at the map after several others had posted and thinking she had truly messed up. So thanks, but I think we really need to just melee our way through this, take our lumps, and depend on our pocket cleric to hopefully get us through this.
If Benedict insists, Jie will put on some of the studded leather and shileds we have gotten from the hobgoblins. It will break her druidic vows but gamewise the only real effect will be her losing the ability to talk to birds for a day. But it will raise her AC by 2 (3 with the shield, but that will mess with the archery)
She's often attacking with the glaive at a +2, which seems to imply a -2 penalty (+3 Str and +1 BAB). That's the source of my confusion. Glaive is better for second rank, tower shield better for first.
I would suggest Lissa and Benedict in front with shields, Amkarang and Grum in second with reach (Grum borrowing the glaive), and Jie with the civilians for ranged support and last line of defense. Willing to entertain ideas. Grum has a good AC even without a shield so could be first rank.
But this is the all-fighter party, not the all-barbarian party, so I think tactics are thematic.
I think Lissa likes her weapons the way they are. :) It should probably be you and Grum in the front rank. Also I don't think this formation will work well against hobs with bows and a higher move then most of us. Turtling up like this will just mean they will shoot and move away. If we are defending or attacking a fixed point then we should definitely try this formation out.
Thanks for your ideas!
To this point, the hobs haven't had bows in hand. They've had melee weapons in hand and have charged. Their bows are also generally not as powerful as their melee attacks (not composite so no Str bonus). Also, we can have a "wide U" formation where archers shoot and 5' step behind the shield wall.
The point is combined arms tactics, where we are not just ranged or just turtles.
80 XP for killing the elemental.
Thanks for your ideas!
To this point, the hobs haven't had bows in hand. They've had melee weapons in hand and have charged. Their bows are also generally not as powerful as their melee attacks (not composite so no Str bonus). Also, we can have a "wide U" formation where archers shoot and 5' step behind the shield wall.
The point is combined arms tactics, where we are not just ranged or just turtles.
I am certainly willing to try it out.
80 XP for killing the elemental.
GO Grum!
The refugees will get names and such tonight after I get home, but in addition to the loot mentioned in the main thread, they also are carrying a total of 12 Provision Points.
ETA: you also get a total of 8 Provision Points from the goats and horse.
OOC, please let me know if Benedict taking charge of tactics is bothersome.
I think moving as a unit is probably the most important detail, where we delay to act until we are all ready to go so that we don't get anybody split off and surrounded.
OOC, please let me know if Benedict taking charge of tactics is bothersome.
I think moving as a unit is probably the most important detail, where we delay to act until we are all ready to go so that we don't get anybody split off and surrounded.
Quarterbacking is the worst.
The purpose of this plan is that I am trying to be tactically smart, yet keep things moving, respect each character's style, conserve our healing, and save the hostage, while only relying on character knowledge.
Grum rushing in there and taking him down with one swing before he knows what hit him would be the best outcome. And hopefully it makes Grum happy. Nobody else does as much damage, and too many combatants could provoke him to just kill Oreld. Once he is tied up in combat we don't have to worry about a CdG and can all move in.
The flaw in the plan is that the hobgoblin is probably an alchemist (ooc knowledge) and the splash damage may kill Oreld.
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Not an easy task to keep all of those things in mind. The hobgoblin has drunk a potion, probably giving it +4 strength. Grum is now next to it, so he can tank out it's inevitable attack. Hopefully he won't do more than 10 damage and we can take him down, if he can get past Grum's AC19 vs goblins. Fingers crossed.
By the way...Grum is obviously built to wear heavy armor. But he'll never have more than 20ft movement. I'm thinking that what he really needs is at lvl3 is to take tribal scars-raptor scale (+6 HP, +5ft movement, +2 acrobatics) and at lvl5 take totem spirit-wind clan (+5ft movement, +2 acrobatics). If I'm correct, that means I'll move 25ft per round at lvl3 and 30ft per round at lvl5. Which is...alright for 2 feats. Also, it will also mean that my untrained acrobatics will be +0 when in masterwork fullplate. :P
GM, are you alright with me taking these feats?