I agree with you on party roles in kingdom management Alaren. I don't see it as the same thing as kingdom building per say. I see the actual kingdom building as a metagame process in a lot of ways. Since unless you are in a totalitarian kingdom many of the micromanagement that takes place wouldn't be realistic.
At the same time as the head of say the spy network you should be able to make choices that can influencing the game outside of adding a tavern on this or that hex. Such as sending a subordinate to a neighboring country to see what is brewing after receiving tentative information on a rise in instability for example. Is war a foot are bandits to blame. You find out its bandits bringing this to the attention of the group might mean a opening to increase ties by offering assistance to secure the shared border against criminal activity. I smell an opportunity for a skilled diplomat to be sent in. They are successful well our general/ warden needs to work out the logistics of a combined effort against the bandits etc etc.
I hope to see a good deal of that kind of game play from the kingdom building turns. I think it really makes a kingdom feel more real and vital over and above the dice rolls per month. Ow and just wanted to throw out that I am aiming for the Magister position :)
1. I prefer to level at plot-apropriate moments. XP is arbitrary anyway. The less bean counting the better.
2. Yay bonus feats! Now maybe I won't have to multiclass to fighter to continue to be functional past 5th level.
3. It's a trope that's worked well so far. No reason to change it.
4. I have no real knowledge of Tian Xia, so one place is the same as another to me. I love being immersed in a setting though.
5. I would love to take a look.
6. Normally I'd say that having the party be a sort of council would be a great idea, but you really don't want Mamoru in charge of the military, or pretty much any other societal facet. Mamoru would defer to Mai in every situation except the ones that dealt with her safety, in which case he'd be a complete tyrant.
7. However you'd like to handle it is fine with me.
I looked into it a little more and the Primer appears to be a character creation tool. While the Gazetteer seems to focus more on general continent information. I feel kind of silly because I think I should have already known that :)
1. How do you want to handle leveling? Regular EXP gain or leveling at key moments? The only difference really is book-keeping. I am only slightly biased to the latter, so select your preference!
>> After all these years, I am leaning more towards an appropriate time to level up. This way it comes as a surprise, and as a DM you can alter encounters and stuff withou having to worry about the exp it gives.
(Oh, and I am an EVIEL DM, as in I sometimes tell my players that I will allow them to level up as soon as they fix something ingame: Background stories, Writing the law for the kingdom, etc etc. It's a great incentive.)
2. How does everyone feel about me granting each player a bonus feat I feel fits their personality, abilities, and role? For example, Mai would gain something like leadership, Mamoru something like cleave or toughness, ect. I feel this would be thematically appropriate, while it would also minutely increase party survivability.
>> Don't mind, as I feel that a feat is a nice way to reward you but does not overly unbalance things. We are at above average group, with above average point buy, and above average feat count.. This should indeed increase survivability, and this in turn causes our characters to have the option to not min-max "because we have to". :)
3. How does everyone feel about continuing to have a 'supernatural ally', like the Kami masquerading as the Vanara that sometimes works as a font of exposition?
>> As said above: Allies are fine, as long as there are strings attached: return favors, things they can't do or talk about, etc etc.
4. Which places in Tian Xia do you all want to explore? I know some places are far more interesting than others and I would not want to bore you with trips to places that do not interest you. If you have no idea about Tian Xia's makeup, see question 5.
>> I know nothing of it, but that's why this campaign interests me: learning about Golarion by being there firsthanded :)
5. Would everyone be interested in me scanning my copy of Dragon Empires Gazeteer and putting it in Google Docs as a reference for you all or seeing if a friend can do so with an actual PDF copy? I would ask that no one copy it to avoid all the copyright infringement stuff, but I think it's legal to have it merely viewable. Am I incorrect in this?
>> Don't know about it being legal. I think it might be best to work with Google Drive if you want to go dow that path. However, do you believe it's absolutely necessary to have read it? I don't mind learning as we go along :)
6. How does everyone want to handle kingdom-building: whole party decisions, decisions by an elected member, or what?
>> I have been running 2 kingmaker games for years now (one is currently going to its fifth year (realtime) and the other has just gone over the second year mark. It's nice to build your own kingdom, but you need someone who is in charge. That way you have someone who can say "We are going to build a caster's tower." while the others can give their advice "Caster's tower will improve revenues, but so will an inn." etc.
The different roles are nice if you throw them a bone once in a while regarding their functions, just don't take it too seriously. :)
7. How does everyone want to handle treasure? In some places, there will be set treasure, but in others I was thinking of rolling for items to make things slightly more interesting. A bit of chaos is always fun in campaigns! Well that and I had so much fun rolling treasure from my early 3.X days! It should be fun coming up with descriptions for items rolled, giving them that unique Oriental flavor!
>> As stated above: random is nice, but you will end up with "We sell all this at 50%, so we can afford the weapon/armor we wanted." and as such there is a chance we will not have enough money. Work with the players/characters to see where they want to go, and reward them as such.
For example: Takeshi has a shortbow named "Weeping Willow". Non-magical, but he is attached to it. Saving an enchanter's life and having him enchant the bow for him would be more meaningful to Takeshi than finding a "+2 epic shortbow of epicness" :D
This doesn't have to go exactly as planned, but it adds detail to our play...
E.g. "Rickmeister" would like the Weeping Willow to grow into a Magical Fire Shortbow, but the enchanter decides in his allknowing wisdom that a Magical Ice Shortbow is better suited for "Takeshi". Or maybe he can't do fire enchantments, because of his past?
((Oh, and once we have a kingdom sufficiently large enough, we can order magical items through our connections. Keep that in mind.))
i'll post my answers tonight :)
1. How do you want to handle leveling?
I'm slightly in favor of key leveling; while leveling is fun, and thinking on your future choices is one of the more intellectually stimulating parts of RP to me, it has its place, and slanting our actions to milk maximum XP shouldn't be the goal of the game. We have other games for that.
2. How does everyone feel about me granting each player a bonus feat I feel fits them?
I'm open to anything that moves the game along, adds more to think about, and/or opens up choices and opportunities for play. You think it fits, say the word. Or don't; surprises can be fun too.
3. How does everyone feel about continuing to have a 'supernatural ally'?
See 2 above, pretty much the same guidelines in my mind apply.
4. Which places in Tian Xia do you all want to explore?
Tian Xia is as alien to me as any fictional world, and I have no aversion to anything specific; wherever the journey takes us, we go!
5. Would everyone be interested in me scanning my copy of Dragon Empires Gazeteer and putting it in Google Docs as a reference for you all or seeing if a friend can do so with an actual PDF copy? I would ask that no one copy it to avoid all the copyright infringement stuff, but I think it's legal to have it merely viewable. Am I incorrect in this?
Hmmm...I think sometimes Paizo can be a little jumpy on file-sharing in any form, might want to get more specific confirmation from them first and/or find alternatives, but any material is good material to me.
6. How does everyone want to handle kingdom-building: whole party decisions, decisions by an elected member, or what?
I think OOC that will come down to an agreement of sorts either way; IC, I guess it depends on what kind of kingdom we're building, eh?
7. How does everyone want to handle treasure? In some places, there will be set treasure, but in others I was thinking of rolling for items to make things slightly more interesting.
Well, treasure can be random at times, as in any adventure. The way I see it, random treasure is fine unless:
1. There are key items that we need to have to advance the plot.
2. The group and DM collectively and unspokenly feel that a player is suffering on the fun front due to lack of specific gear. In those cases, you'll know better than us what should be done.
Since we're apt to have at least one crafter in the future, problem 2 is somewhat alleviated, and both problems are perfectly controllable by DM purview.
Short version? DM knows best.
1) Key leveling
2)don't really care one way or an other
3) if you think it is important to the story
4) don't know much about the dragon empires so any place is fine with me
5) i have a copy but never read it
6) well i would say it would depend on the characters after all even if we have the common goal of putting someone on the throne well we might just have secondary personal goals
7) i have no preference either way
8) Having fun !
Taking the preferences into consideration. I will be catching up on some sleep soon, so I will post tomorrow!
Also, it looks like we may have to wait until Wednesday. Is that fine with you all? I hate to push the schedule, but I just got the essay for the last essay I will have to do in one class and would like to finish it before I begin steamrolling this campaign out like, more or less, clockwork.
Sounds good to me.
One thing I hate about the Internet, you're not free from professors posting assignments! Stupid +9-Page Entertainment-Bane Essay of Boredom! That's how I stat it out anyway! A hint to everyone, if you take college, never max your class load. Full class load and max class load are two very different things!
Ouch indeed no worries dm.
Oh btw i am probably going to change my avatar for this game...
Been in your shoe before so I understand thanks for the heads up.
No problem gm!
Yeah, full class load is fine for me. Nice and even, plenty of time off to do part-time work and GET BACK ON THE BOARDS!
Has the GM transfer happened yet?
I don't believe so. I don't see any changes in the game master branding under the campaign name.
No changes yet. I'll resend the message to Paizo asking for the transfer. Whether the transfer is complete by tomorrow or not, I will be ready to begin the campaign! I will make the introduction of the NPCs myself as my first post to introduce them and get things flowing again!
I have but one teensy little question: ARE YOU READY?! :D
You could always start anew, leaving the behind and opening a new thread..
And i don't know about being ready. I mean, I have things to do, places to see, people to meet...
Oh wait, that's what this campaign is for :-D
No, sticking to this thread will be sufficient, it'll just take a bit to have actual ownership. It's not like I have to be able to modify the tabs for roughly about two weeks anyway, so no problems there!
Definitely ready!
Good to know. After SOC4200 is over, I will post!
Post up! Apologies for the 5-hour delay!
Finally got around to reading some backgrounds. I kind of like Hiriko's, I'm wondering what Takeshi's and Alaren's will be like.
Beylinda's...is kind of confusing? For example, I'm wondering about Gregory; what was he like? what happened to him, and how did he affect Beylinda's life?
Sorry if I nitpick at backstories; I enjoy reading them, and over-criticize my own work so often that it's habit sometimes. I've missed out on many a campaign by not being satisfied with my own fluff.
Beylinda's is from a former game and hasn't been changed yet. I was confused momentarily until I remembered Algar said to disregard it, so no problem!
Ah. Okay. Yeah I was all excited to see what kinds of characters were joining and I'm like....ummm, guys? DO I KNOW YOU?? lol.
Thank you Mai, I was trying to write something that had the tone of a Japanese fairy tail. I might have been a little out of my depth but it was still fun to write :)
Wu Fen I am curious where are we starting within Tian Xia. I know we where in the forest of Spirits. At least that was my understanding, but now that we have been transported to Tengoku Castle. What region would that place us in? I didn't see it mentioned in gameplay. If it isn't something our characters would know that's cool I would still like to know as a player if possible.
Tengoku Castle is located on a small island (Between 300-400 miles across,) west of Shanguang and the Wall of Heaven, I will try getting Google Docs up to show you. You all will spend time there before crossing the Wall of Heaven into Shanguang, then Hongal, then into the Forest of Spirits, and Minkai. It's around a 4,000 mile journey, a little less in distance than the original AP's travel specs, but hey, we're not coming from Varisia and the Land of the Linnorm Kings!
I will also be posting general descriptions of Tian Xia's various countries, should you choose to develop diplomatic relationships (Either personally via traveling with a homebrewed item's aid or indirectly via messengers or spells,). Diplomatic relations will help trade into the burgeoning kingdom, as well as acquire possible aid against the Jade Regent (Each nation will have it's own sort of aid if Allied status is reached, from soldiers, to items, to courtly string-pulling, ect.,).
Intrigued? I hope so, because this is going to be epic! I'm really planning on making this THE iconic Jade Regent campaign!
Oh, and obviously as the leaders of this soon-to-be nation, you will have the fun of setting taxes, deciding on holidays, making elaborate customs, ect. As for how the nation first attracts visitors, well that would be cheating to tell you this early, wouldn't it? ;)
Sounds like the spit of land that is shaped something like the blade of a falchion that sits between the Ivory Sea to the north and the Embaral Ocean to the south. Would that make the island part of the wall of heaven region? A small community or communities living under the shadow of the forbidding peaks that pierce the boundaries of Leng. Considering the areas current troubles I thought it fit :)
Intrigued why yes yes I am in fact it sounds great, I like the idea of building up an empire while dealing with other countries along the way with that game of thrones feel. With some adventuring along the way of coarse.
By the way everyone, I can post-glut, so to speak, if anyone was curious. I don't know how long my schedule will allow for these massive gouts of posting, but if anyone posts any questions, comments, ect., then I will likely be able to reply rather swiftly. So if you post here in discussion, expect an answer within an hour unless it's during class or sleep hours!
Hiriko, that's precisely the island! I'm ruling it to be it's own, formerly-abandoned, nation. So no, it's not part of the Wall of Heaven community. I'm ruling that it's one of the Tengoku Emperor's retreats, back from when Tian Xia was a united nation and Minkai was the 'capital'. No connections to Leng, you Lovecraftian! And currently, there are NO inhabitants, apart from flora, fauna, Oni, Kami, and stuff of that nature.
How to travel to distant nations in a short period of time, you ask? Well, the Torii Gates scattered across Tian Xia, the ones not corrupted by Oni anyway (Leaving out places like Hongal, the Forest of Spirits, and Minkai,). If only someone had a 'key' to use the gates with, you all could travel across Tian Xia! Don't you love a power-mad GM? ;)
By the way, just clarifying that the Kami is making fun of Mamoru IC, not me doing so OOC! Didn't want you to think I was being a jerk or anything, as I'm playing the Kami's trickster-style personality, replete with insults, in a very similar way to the Monkey King, although I will also point out that the two are not the same being.
That's fine. Mamoru deserves to be made fun of sometimes. He's pretty stodgy.
Just wanting to clarify because once a player, in my home group no less, took a joke levied against his character IC by a Pixie as an OOC insult and promptly pitched a fit about it. Just didn't want there to be any miscommunications!
And anyone having doubts about this tiny island's resources, think again! There's a reason the area is not freezing, despite it's location next to the Wall of Heaven! Just wanted to tease everyone for now to get your minds stirring about the possibilities! Here's a hint, you will never guess it!
@Wu Fen: There is an underground warm water stream/lava bubbling up, keeping the island relatively warm while not endangering the residents?
@Mamoru: I will apologize in advance, my bard will e kind of a trickster as well, so be sure to take all his insults and "big and dumb" remarks with a grain of salt.
Hey, perhaps he can find a way to prove to Takeshi he is smarter than him?
@Mai: I'm still fleshing out the background. Since I know little of the eastern regions, I was thinking about my father travelling to the west and working for a 'king' in the land of the River Kingdoms. He will have travelled back recently.. Think that could work? I was thinking I'd be back for a few years now, travelling to and fro in search of work, making money by singing songs and then blowing it on eating, wine and drinking.
Just be careful. Mamoru expects that sort of thing from Kami, and so far it hasn't really been disrespectful. If you get insulting or personal with Mamoru, he will probably challenge you to an honor duel. Once that happens, one of us is going to die.
I don't advocate inter-party conflict, and I myself am a pretty easy-going guy, but I am playing a giant, evil, demon samurai who measures everyone's worth in direct proportion to their usefulness to his ward.
Think of it like being friends with someone who has a very well trained but dangerous and temperamental dog. You might eventually get to know the dog, but you'd probably know better than to ever poke at it.
Takeshi, nothing so mundane as a hot springs, though there is one of those. Got the curiousity piqued, didn't I? As far as background, your character was at the Twilight Monastery before Mai and Mamoru left, for whatever reason. As for your spoiler, feel free to choose one, but let me know which and be prepared for it to use the actual rules. Sound good?
Mamoru your a half ogre / Oni. Does that make you a humanoid or an outsider? I ask because enlarge person only affects humanoids and your character seems a natural target for the spell.
Half ogre is the mechanical representation I went with.
What Mamoru is in actuality is a young and small-ish full blooded Oni from a clan that is a lot like Ogre Magi. (which is why he's blue with white horns)
So he's technically Humanoid, but only because there isn't a player character race to represent what he actually is.
In the previous game I'd discussed the idea of gaining thematic abilities, or even slowly turning into an actual Ogre Mage, to represent Mamoru absorbing energies and gaining strength. Not sure what Silver Prince thinks of that idea. Hopefully we'll be able to work out something similar. I was thinking they could be unlocked in place of magic items or something.
My posting will be slightly erratic for the next couple of days. >.< I will do my best to reply as often as I can, but because of a fever I have been left without a job and I need to find one before the 20th or I lose my apartment.
For those that were curious, Alaren's back story is now up. According to the GM I, quite by accident, managed to emulate a chinese folk-tale. Interestingly enough it also went the same way with its character that I intend to go.
Mamoru, I would be happy to work with you on such a thing, within reason of course! I was thinking perhaps rituals that cost a pretty penny in terms of gold for the components that 'awaken' the dormant power within your blood. If you would like, I could compile a list of said abilities and their respective GP costs. These things would be fairly expensive due to them bestowing inherent bonuses, similar to how the 'Tomes of (Whatever,)' grant inherent ability score bonuses. That, or we can have it all be along the lines of another idea, which I will outline below!
I've been thinking everyone, instead of the bonus feat/level every level beyond 1st tied to character theme that I originally envisioned, would everyone instead prefer some homebrewed 'Destiny Paths'? If you would like that, then I can draw up some sample paths. Examples that should serve as inspiration are below.
Path of the Phoenix Queen- Path that grants powerful fire abilities, various healing abilities, and at later levels can cry golden tears that act as Resurrection and can self-immolate to deal massive damage to nearby enemies and revive with a percentage of HP.
Path of the Devouring Void- Path that grants negative energy abilities, increasing immunity to various effects, can pull enemies with void energies, and at higher levels can turn into an inky void covered in stars that acts like a weaker version of a Sphere of Annihlation (No insta-death unless foes are your HD-4,).
Path of Frozen Raindrops- Path that grants water-based abilities, time manipulation abilities, increasing immunities to mind-affecting abilities, and at higher levels the ability to discorporate into a whirling cloud of tiny water droplets with a steel like consistency that can shred nearby foes.
Those are just a few examples that I can think of in the short period of time between classes. Obviously they are elemental based, but I just had a short inspiration, along the lines of Legend of the Five Rings. If anyone wants to take one of these 'Paths' or has one of their own that they want to offer up, just post here under discussion! If you think a path is too narrowly focused, I can come up with some ideas for individual abilities that can be taken seperate.
No problem Alaren, that's a pretty serious situation and I completely understand! Here's hoping that you find a Celestial Dragon Pearl for good luck! All I ask is that you try to keep us appraised of the situation if you are able, but if that's not possible, then no problem! If you are not back in about 4 days, would you like to be GMPC'd or no? Is there any monetary assistance charities nearby? I know where I live there is a 'personal aid' center where you can apply if you are behind on bills, have insufficient funds, ect., though it is always swamped full of people. Maybe there is one where you live? Something to check into anyway!
There is a place I'll be going to, but they require the person asking for assistance to have a job before hand, so I really need to ace one of my interviews.
As for the path vs feat thing, that might be okay for some but I'll be straight with ya. I'm already going to get cool stuff as a Ninja character. XD But because I went ranged rather then just decide to use a dagger or something I'm not going to be able to touch a lot those abilities any time soon and will have to take ninja tricks to just keep him on par with the two front liners.
May I suggest an option for both then? Or perhaps making a path like option that focuses more on feats then on other, more fantastic abilities?
Ok new alias is up and ready
If you want to take feats in place of some awesome Paths like the Path of the Quiescent Tempest I had in mind for you that I am thinking up, then feel free! I merely though about what Mamoru had arranged with the previous GM and thought it would be cool to offer everyone a similar option! Here's hoping you ace the interview, using your Yin Ki to stay calm and cool, while using your Yang Ki to deliver an impactful presentation! Also, how heavily are you going to be using Ki? Average, above average, not very much? Just curious.
Hello there Algar! Did you read my above posts about 'Destiny Paths' in place of the bonus feat/level?
Extra ki will be my go to feat if I have my bases covered ranged wise. I really plan on Alaren delving into that aspect of his class. That said, that's more a 'later level' kind of thing currently. XD It might be nice to have a lot of extra ki now but it won't do me much good if I can't hit anything.
Ok good to know do you mind being the target of the enlarge spell. I certainly believe the pros out weigh the cons but I wished to ask before using it. I don't have it memorized right now but have it ready in scroll form.
The question goes to the everyone as well but honestly the other most likely target would be Mai and her fighting style seems to favor finesse and speed over brute strength. I like to get an order of preference for certain spells like that one to be on the safe side.
My understanding is that in general until a person interacts with the spell they don't receive a save. So until they interact with the wall ie make a attack against it try to touch it etc or take time to actively study it as a move action, they would believe it to be real. Alternatively anyone entering the fog or studying it would receive the save. In the case of those affected would they be affected as a normal fog from the environmental conditions section of the Core book?
Just wished to give you an idea of my expectations when using the spell and get an idea of how it compares to yours. I expect that it will only buy the group a round or 2 in most cases especially with the continued concentration requirement.
i sure did but the question i had was the following: while it is nice to have more power /abilities i don't think we need the added bonus on top of what the rules/classes do give us :)
(and i don't think we really need a bonus /feat per level)
I've used something similar to destiny Paths in other games. In my experience the work best in games with reduced access to magic items (powers essentially replacing the majority of magical gear)
This works well for a few reasons. It reduces the "Christmas tree effect" of every character being decked out from head to toe in magical gear. It reduces reliance on the "big six" items. It means that magic items we do come across are more meaningful because of competitive rarity. It means that our awesomeness comes from us, not from our equipment.
For those reasons I'm generally in favor of Paths/alternate wealth systems.
That being said, it takes impressive system mastery to make it work. If it's something the party is interested in doing, I would be happy to help work out the kinks.