Wandering GM's PF Sunless Citadel

Game Master TheWanderer123

Back in the groove again, people. Glad the holidays are done!

*crickets*

I posted. I think the game is waiting on you, GM.

It is...just been busy with the holidays...then was TOTALLY laid out by the flu.

I have the flu now. It sucks.

I have the flu now. It sucks.

Seconded.

Glad you're better, Jon.

Hope you recover quickly, Julio.

I'm back from the holidays and can happily post my discust with human ruggedness once again. :P

Anyways, I don't mean to Imply anything about stats in my last post, And frankly I'd rather just play...

Yeah, let's play!

Too much sun, not enough citadel!

Lol

Which begs the question, is there even a citadel? After all, if it's a dungeon crawl should that mean that it isn't a dungeon but in fact a Citadel crawl, or is it that the citadel is actually A DUNGEON THE ENTIRE TIME!

Which begs the question, is there even a citadel? After all, if it's a dungeon crawl should that mean that it isn't a dungeon but in fact a Citadel crawl, or is it that the citadel is actually A DUNGEON THE ENTIRE TIME!

The Citadel became a dungeon when it sank! And anyway, I'm not crawling anywhere...

Actually I think CRAWL is a great description...Hopefully I can get you guys running soon! Daily posting begins again today.

Until Savien and Julio came along with additional (higher) perception roles, I was in a little bit of a GM bind. If you read the post, Julio found a hidden door. In reality, Savien and Akula could also find it. The thing that was bothering me was rewarding it to Akula on a take 10 on perception with no indication of what he would be looking for. In a live game, I would have prompted him for what he is looking for and/or where he is looking. This obviously isn't feasible in pbp. Still, it seems somehow disappointing to find hidden stuff with a take 10.

In the end, I had decided to let him find it (especially since it was not all that difficult to find) but the decision was taken out of my hand by a very high roll by Julio.

To answer a Savien question from the gameplay post - I do not believe you can take 10 to aid another.

Savien here on my GM alias.

Pbp is a bit tricky. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for efficiency in order to avoid bogging down the game.

I'm running a dungeon crawl and the deal I made with my players is that I'll roll perception checks for them for any traps they walk into so they don't have to declare searching. This works doubly well because sometimes they roll low and trigger traps(sometimes players roll low and decide not to advance) and otherwise they focus on exploration, and because that means I know I don't have to reveal secrets unless they specify they're searching.

I don't extend this auto search benefit to features such as chests though.

This also allows me to move the party forward into/past traps if things are stalling.

That said, I run a very fast paced game and make several compromises to keep things moving quickly.

YMMV

Personally, I'm open to whatever you want to do and I'll make things easy by declaring anything I search specifically.

Maybe our home grown group is doing this wrong, but I have never seen so many players "take 10" in my entire pathfinder career

Well, it is best to assume those who choose not to take 10 rolled a Nat 1, and then if somehow their bonus is so big it still beats whatever DC there is then it is Either an obvious thing, or they are very skilled. Meaning most players can beat a DC 5 to see or hear something, otherwise you have to specify your taking 10 on a check.

For PBP, it's different. Because you can't always specify it's actually better when possible if players take 10. First it doesn't require you to ask every time someone needs to roll one, and let's you choose what checks would better fit if someone actually rolled

I do this as a DM, When ever my players need a check to detect something I assume they rolled 10. Specifically this applies to invisible creatures or stealthed enemies. Meaning only one dice needs to be rolled.
However if they need to look for something specific like a Hidden door or a trap, I make them roll, or hint that something might be around and they can choose to roll to find it.

Otherwise any time a player tolls to find something when nothing is around (I've had this many times) then I just describe everything in greater detail.

That's how I do perception, and taking 10.it helps with my games and I find it better than just saying "I take 10 to look around the room for anything hidden or enemies that are hidden" I just assume any time they enter the room whomever is scouting takes 10 unless they specify.

Although for me taking 10 can't discover anything specific(such as traps or doors) unless they state they are specifically taking 10 to find it.

PbP is a very different animal, especially for dungeon crawl/exploration sequences.

I do the Take 10 thing to give teh GM a general threshold of what Akula can do without giving it a lot of effort.

That way the GM can write up a description of the things we find/disable/bypass/notice as we progress without having to wait for confirmation/player direction every 5 feet.

The best way to speed exploration up is to have the GM "share custody" of the scout character. That's why I wanted to be the scout. I (usually) have a high posting rate and I don't mind having my character highjacked to push the narrative.

As a player in Clownfish's game, I can attest to the speed it moves at. I just got back from a short new year's vacation and his game had 45 posts to catch up on.

I think christmas and new years derailed the pace of this game a bit. That tends to happen ever year. Now that I'm back I'll try to pick up the pace again.

As a warning, I have another trip starting on January 20th. I'll be gone for 10 days and will have limited posting time again. Hopefully by then we'll have figured out a general routine so Savien can take the front seat as scout and the GM can move things forward more easily.

My apologies for being a day late, folks -- I *passed out* after work yesterday. Should have a post up in a couple hours.

I just wanted to state this here as well...

Melaphisto has slam and tentacles Because even though slam is a 1 point evolution and his base form has claws, his subtype automatically gives him slam, which replaces claws.

If it doesn't then Melaphisto should also have claws, but I felt that having three different attacks at lvl 1 wasn't really the intention of Paizo...

Base Form: Aberrant (bite, grab [tentacle mass], tentacle mass), biped (limbs [arms], limbs [legs], slam), quadruped (bite, limbs [legs, 2]), or serpentine (bite, grab [bite], reach [bite], tail, tail slap).

This is where it states the base evolutions for the form

I still think it would be courteous for you to ask before claiming loot. That's how it's handled in my other games.

Even if an item showed up for us that was somehow something only my character could use, I would still ask.

I would have asked, but Sureliah wouldn't, she'd see something, claim it as her own, and rigorously defend her claim. Same situation as with the potions, she doesn't trust any of you with distribution of loot.

It's part of being chaotic. Not saying I'm gonna claim everything, but Sureliah has only a melee weapon and 10 Str, she isn't likely to do well in combat without her Eidolon to smash everything.

You could ask in ooc chat...

I'm just looking for some courtesy in this cooperative game. This is the second time you've pocketed stuff without a word.

I've never once claimed an item in a D&D game(in 16 years) without checking with the group that it was OK for me to take. Maybe I've been doing it wrong this whole time, but I really feel like it creates a more cooperative environment.

I would have asked, but Sureliah wouldn't, she'd see something, claim it as her own, and rigorously defend her claim. Same situation as with the potions, she doesn't trust any of you with distribution of loot.

This is what OOC conversation is for.

There's nothing wrong with playing a selfish, greedy, or non-trusting character. That said, when you play a character like that you have to be extra clear and willing to talk in Discussion.

Playing a Jerk Character is not a blank check. "That's what my character would do" is not an excuse for making the game less fun for everyone else. You can't rely on the group's out of game kindness to keep the characters in game from kicking you out. Eventually "that's what the character would do" will come around to bite you in the ass.

You control your character. Either make her have a change of heart, or get a lot better at out of game communication.

I somewhat agree.. but if you look at the builds, I think in this case she would be the obvious choice for the X-bow. PLUS if it is in her character to claim it without asking, it is perfect....BECAUSE IF it is in your toons character to challenge, then do so...it leaves room both ways for roleplaying the situation

I think you all don';t understand the point of view Surliah is being played at...she feels this is beneath her and she is entitled...If you want to challenge, it is my opinion you roleplay your character to challenge.

If you don't, then you aren't giving the person running the character the credit for not being able to concede IN GAME the way Surliah runs HER existence. The person running Surliah is an experienced adult running a toon to her personality...if you don't adjust to that YOU are the one that ends up looking petty!

Okay, I'll make that note in the future.

I'm not used to Playing any if my chaotic Character, DM for some reason tend to not like Chaotic alighnments... I'm sure for this reason.

But honestly, who here than should have the Crossbow? Most other characters are proficient with bows, have ranged weapons, or are focused on melee.

Akula is the only other character I can think of that may need the crossbow, but he has a bow...

And sure sureliah has acid splash, but I find 1d4 damage severely underwhelming.

I somewhat agree.. but if you look at the builds, I think in this case she would be the obvious choice for the X-bow. PLUS if it is in her character to claim it without asking, it is perfect....BECAUSE IF it is in your toons character to challenge, then do so...it leaves room both ways for roleplaying the situation

Oh, I totally agree that she should get the crossbow. I just want a little cooperative discussion about loot if she is going to continue claiming things.

I could decide that it's 'what my character would do' and have Savien take the crossbow from her to sell for loot. He doesn't expect her to be particularly useful with it. And maybe that starts a fight with her Eidolon that Savien probably wins. And then, since Savien is the one who killed the skeleton and the eidolon who killed the other two, it would be within his rights to keep all the gold and the crossbow that he found in there, right?

Where's the line here? Let's just start with open discussion instead.

Edit @Sureliah: Yeah, absolutely keep the crossbow. It makes total sense. You're the best character for it. The only situation that may come up is if we get into a long-range fire-fight(somehow), Savien might try to borrow it. He can actually add damage with Studied Target. But I'd rather find a longbow for him.

I think you all don';t understand the point of view Surliah is being played at...she feels this is beneath her and she is entitled...If you want to challenge, it is my opinion you roleplay your character to challenge.

If you don't, then you aren't giving the person running the character the credit for not being able to concede IN GAME the way Surliah runs HER existence. The person running Surliah is an experienced adult running a toon to her personality...if you don't adjust to that YOU are the one that ends up looking petty!

Roleplaying or not, this is a cooperative game and it should be our goal as players to work together, whether our characters would or not.

Let me give you an example of a real problem that came up in a game I ran. One of many that I've run into.

It was one of my first games as a GM and I set a campaign on a border war with an Orc nation. The first mission was to simply hunt orcs and bring back their ears. One of my players decided to play a Kender Rogue whose entire character was based around stealing things. I was too inexperienced to see the danger upfront.

So, over the course of the first couple sessions, she started using stealth and sleight of hand to take the ears during combat so the party kept finding earless orcs. Now, the players were fully aware of what was going on, but none of them could make the perception checks to actually see the rogue character taking them. Eventually, the characters confronted her without evidence and got the ears, but we spent a large part of the first several sessions arguing about this and her defense was always, "It's what my character would do!"

It was a colossal waste of time and really put a damper on the whole campaign, for all the players and especially for me.

Please, please, please treat this game like the cooperative roleplaying experience it is and don't play toxic characters like that. And if you do, please be thorough about communicating out of character so that things can go smoothly for the players who have committed their time and energy to the game.

So, maybe I seem petty here. But I'm not willing to endure more of that type of gameplay. The reason I bring up issues is because it's important to me that we have a cooperative experience here. And if someone wants to play a character that is not cooperative, that's fine. Just please communicate with us.

Also, there's a big misconception going around about what it means to be a chaotic character, and it's not about taking things without asking, or doing whatever you feel like. The misconception is probably the main reason DMs don't like chaotic characters. But that's a whole other discussion.

Edit: I am purposely avoiding conflict in character even though Savien would probably have an issue because I'm just tired of it. Also, I don't want to spend half a week on an in character argument that doesn't matter. I just want some courtesy from the player is all.

Since this situation seemed like it might indicate a pattern of behavior Savian and I both wanted to address it.

Apologies if the method was a little harsh. Thank you for being receptive.

Keep the crossbow.

Yes, I simply want to RP, I wasn't asking mostly because I expected someone else to bring it up in game. if no one did, I would assume you all where fine with me taking it.

And as I stated, I won't claim anything that I don't think Sureliah needs, or would best fit in her possession. After all, if she finds a suit of full plate it's likely she'd just pass it over and not care, not even thinking of the gold that she could earn for that.

The things she is most likely to claim are wands, scrolls, simple weapons, light armors, and if possible anything related to Summoning or Conjuration magic.

Anything else I'm more than willing to let others claim before she goes and gets grabby. After all, even with the potions she handed them out without any fuss.

She puts little value in actual value, and even if given the chance to take a large, gold guilded statue guaranteed to make her rich for the rest of her life she'd likely pass it over without a second thought. Her goal is hardly to get rich...

I'm fine with you claiming things for the most part, and it makes sense for your character to do so.

Can you just ask in this discussion beforehand? I'm very likely to be OK with you taking most things you would take, but like the potions, I may push for you to find a way to divide stuff up.

Or you might be met with an OK but Savien is going to argue about it IC.

etc. etc.

Also, I wear light armor too. Expect a fight over anything good in that department.

So...lesson learned. Play your character but clarify intent with either OOC comments or in the discussion. A lot of angst would have been saved here.

Angst is absolutely the right word here lol

I listen to emo music too.

Lol

Well, folks, I'm sure this won't come as a shock, but I believe the only truly responsible thing for me to do is write Vak'rogh out of this campaign. I have not been able to dedicate the time to it that I should, and my involvement has suffered thereby. I have other projects to which I have made commitments, and I can't juggle those and this. My character has been a non-factor in many ways, and is redundant in others that don't gel well with the group. So, rather than bog down the group while y'all wait for half-hearted efforts on my part, I'd like to coordinate with Jon on some semi-reasonable exit for Vak and Kazh. I'll be around long enough for us to finish that off, but I don't see a way forward for me in this PbP.

I hope you all have a blast with the remainder of the adventure, and I wish you all well in your future gaming.

Totally understandable. For what it's worth, I really enjoyed your character. Good luck in your future endeavors!

Thanks!

*tips cap*

Hmm... Unfortunately I haven't had time to interact with your character, so I'm sorry for couldn't have ahd you any longer.

too bad Vak'Rogh felt Lost in his efforts with the group, he seemed like a good guy...for a half-orc that is...

Bummer. I was enjoying Vak'Rogh.

Maybe he can guard the exit for us or something like that. That way if you find more time to play and want to come back he's still available.

It's highly unlikely that I would be able to stage a comeback -- the new job is developing well, in terms of compensation, but I already know that the next three months are spoken for, and housing construction doesn't really get rolling till spring. Which means my limited time will get *more* limited, soon.

I like my character (generally), and all that, but I just don't have enough time to really *roleplay* him. And showing up barely enough to "stab the face, stomp the sword" isn't rewarding enough on its own. Nevermind how much it would drag on y'all after a time.

Well shucks. I'm glad the new job is working for you personally - even if it hurts us. Thanks for participating. See you around the boards!

Should I just have Vak get a "message from beyond" ('cause I was probably gonna aim for speaker for the past shaman at some point) and exit stage left??

As Savien actually knows Sylvan, I am thinking we might as well keep that Irish as denoted in the previous link. As there was no actual designation for Auran (if it even comes up at all in the campaign), I was thinking maybe Icelandic or French?

Let's make a quick decision here. How about Auran = Icelandic. I will update the house rules

Hey Julio, can you go read my last post when you have a moment? No big deal, but I need to know if you respond or ignore Savien for my next post.

Savien can only get the party in trouble here. I'll dutifully wait for Julio to post first.

No promises after that, though. lol

Savien can only get the party in trouble here. I'll dutifully wait for Julio to post first.

No promises after that, though. lol

you know, you could post that as an inner monologue in gameplay which would make it like....uh...roleplaying...maybe...

Savien stands back waiting for Julio to do the talking.

ROLEPLAY man!

Hmm.... you seem upset. I don't feel like hostility is warranted here.

I feel like I spent a lot of time trying to do just that with this character early on in this game, but my interactions consistently get ignored so I haven't been pushing so much to do that. I feel like I should take my opportunities when the effort will be worthwhile.

I was honestly really excited about a number of roleplaying situations with this character that ended up leaving a sour taste in my mouth with how they went. Maybe I'm too picky, but I really was enjoying this character and that kind of faded.

A big part of it is that with some of the characters I don't have a lot to go on as far as their personalities, so even with Savien's inner-monologue, I'm at a loss for how he thinks of them.

I also wholeheartedly disagree with your objection. This is the out of character discussion. At the table, there is tons of this kind of thing.

If we want to talk about trying to tell a story as a group, then I think all of the players should focus on trying to provide more detail with their posts. A lot of the time, I feel like I'm roleplaying on an island and having to assume things about the other characters if I want to interact. There are a lot of one-line posts in this game. I would be ecstatic if we really got to dig into roleplaying here, but I'm not sure if I can really expect that with Vak gone. Honestly, the most interesting part of this game so far for me was my argument with Vak on the first page and his character easily had the most depth for me to interact with.

I'm more than willing to commit a stronger effort to this game. Savien is still one of my favorite characters. But I feel like it's fair to expect the same from everyone else. Right? If we're just going to put up half-assed posts every other day, then I'll still write Savien when it's interesting or when he has something to do, but I don't think I should have to write an inner monologue post every time he does nothing.

I am not mad in the least bit I was simply trying to convey a point clearly and passionately. And you know what, you're right and I am wrong let's leave it at that. Keep doing what you're doing dude. I am heartfully sorry! Let's just play!

By the way, Savien is one of the more interesting characters so far. Whether you feel his actions and inner thoughts are going unnoticed or unappreciated or not, we are reading and taking note. I wrote a decent bio, I think, but I am still trying to decide who Blitz is...one thing I do know though...is who I feel Savien is, and it's giving me a chance to play a more reactionary role at this point until I am able to develop my toon.