What exactly constitutes a "God Wizard"?

Self-Explanatory Question and Thread.

I am confused as to what makes the "God Wizard" so Godly. From what I gather, it's mostly Save or Suck/Die Spells. While these are some of the strongest spells, they're also ones that are Hit or Miss, and can of course be countered very easily, in which case the "God Wizard" is soon to be a "Dead Wizard."

To me, it doesn't speak as if it's "God Wizard" material. So it has become obvious that I am missing some more crucial information that makes such character types worthy of their name. I can conclude that there are safety measures; such as buffs and lines of defense (Mirror Image, Spell Resistance etc.), though I am unsure as to the level of power they reach to. There could also be proxys for certain situations (Contingency), or methods to which the Wizard is Immortal (Greater Age Resistance?), but as far as specifics are concerned, I am at a loss.

So I turn to the community here to properly explain what a "God Wizard" will most likely have, as well as the quantifications of such a being.

So I turn to the community here to properly explain what a "God Wizard" will most likely have, as well as the quantifications of such a being.

My understanding is a "god wizard" is a wizard that has a spell ready for any situation at the start of each day.

This is slightly different from "Shroedinger's wizard" who has a spell for every situation all day long.

(however, I'm curious like you so I'm dotting the thread moreorless)

I believe the idea (at least in part) comes from Treantmonk's guide to wizards, which mentions playing the "God Wizard". According to that guide the "God Wizard" focuses mostly on battle field control type spells. One of his main suggestions is to skip SoS/SoD spells.

Treantmonk's Guide

From a guide, the definition for God Wizard was a wizard that controls reality. While people use the term to describe a wizard that is overpowered he used it to describe a role of a battlefield controller, describing it as a wizard's most powerful option effectively becoming 'God' in a given situation by changing circumstances to the party's favor.

In short it's a wizard that can quickly turn an encounter into 'easy mode' for the rest of the party.

A properly prepared Wizards safety measures are virtually impregnable to a non-caster at the highest levels. Most Wizards can rely Astral Projection to engage in combat with virtually no risk other then 2 easily removed negative levels if they are slain. Even in the unlikely event that a wizard does perish, Clone takes all the sting out of dying (though at this level of play Raise Dead is child's play). The big issue is that for many of a Wizard's defenses shutdown entire methods of attack without being easily removed. A Wizard whose Aroden's Spellbane is set to Antimagic Field, Mage's Disjunction, Aroden's Spellbane, and Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (remaining spell at discretion) requires an extremely specific counter.

Furthermore at these levels, when the Wizard wants something dead there is no save involved. Thanks to the nerf of Protection from X and Mindblank, it is extremely difficult to obtain immunity from mind-affecting, which makes Limited Wish (or Wish) duplicating a Geas/Quest spell, no save standard action mind control if cast by a neutral caster. Another example would be if the above Wizard left a stack of Shrink Item pools of Lava or Acid (enough such items to fill a Mage's Magnificent Enclosure) near his targets and cast Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (which his Aroden't Spellbane will suppress while he's present) and then leave the area (thus allowing MME to take effect). Now his enemies are taking 20d6 fire or 10d6 Acid damage around while all their Magic, SLAs, and SU abilites are suppressed by Mage's Magnificent Enclosure.

Stack on top of the above the fact that a high level wizard will have a permanent Demiplane with the double time flowing time trait, every day will allow the Wizard to have the twice the time in their plane (leading to 4 hours "outside time" spell prep). And this is even before we get into the permanent minions that Wizards can acquire, the easy access to crafting magical items, divination abilities that amount to guaranteed future knowledge, and other utility.

Does that help to clarify the "god" wizard in the sense of an overpowered wizard? (Though again as stated above the original "god" wizard is the treatmonk guide, which explains it reasons for the name fairly well.)

It's called the "god" wizard because he's never really directly involved. He stands back and summons and empowers his minions while weakening and inhibiting his enemies. He almost never does a single hp of actual damage, but still is the master of the battle.

As others say, the term "God Wizard" comes from Treatmonk's Wizard guide. It means a wizard that focuses on giving his party efficient tactical advantages. A God Wizard typically likes crowd control spells like Black Tentacles and Stinking Cloud. A God Wizard also likes summon monster spells because they provide flanking buddies, zone control, and can do damage without the wizard putting himself in harm's way. The playstyle is called a "God" Wizard because the wizard is manipulating the world to turn encounters into his party's favor.

"God Wizards" are generally considered the optimal way to play the class. However, many people dislike them because they trivialize encounters in very not-so-heroic way.

Claxon, Malwing and The Crusader are generally correct, while Anzyr does a good job demonstrating the capabilities of such a character. The basic idea of the God Wizard is that, rather than directly intervene in combat, they control combat by empowering friendly combatants (buffs), depowering enemy combatants (debuff), creating more friendly combatants (summoning spells) and creating effects that change the literal and figurative shape of the battlefield (battlefield control) to harass the enemy, separate and divide great numbers of enemies, forcing them into terrain that is disadvantageous (either because they'll be in the effect of a spell or because they'll have to avoid the effect of a spell), etc. Such a wizard is like unto a god, for they defeat enemies not by directly harming them but instead by creating or altering the conditions for defeat, such that they've all but won to begin with. This playstyle usually eschews both SoD spells and blast spells, though exceptions exist in each case.

As another correction, the Schrodinger's Wizard isn't a caster that has a spell for every situation; that would the Batman Wizard. The Schrodinger's Wizard is a cheater that abuses a DM's lack of attention and just casts whatever spells they want. The name is a wordplay on quantum mechanics, specifically the Schrodinger Equation and the superposition of states, which is the concept that a system (in this case, the spellbook) exists in a state composed of two or more basic position-states (in this case, prepared spell lists). When a superposition is observed (in quantum mechanics, this would be achieved by taking a measurement of the system; in Pathfinder, this would be achieved by asking the wizard what spells he has prepared), the superposition itself collapses and acts as if it exists as one of the basic position-states that composed the original superposition.

The Schrodinger's Wizard appears to be a Batman wizard because he always, conveniently (suspiciously so, even) has the ability to cast the correct the spell needed to fix any problem. This is because the character's player is cheating and lying about what spells they actually have prepared.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Cyrad. Also a good description.

Schrodinger's Wizard is

when you let a player play a wizard that casts all the spells in their spellbooks spontaneously as if they were sorcerers. it can either be a legit archetype, or it can be downright cheating.

Self-Explanatory Question and Thread.

I am confused as to what makes the "God Wizard" so Godly. From what I gather, it's mostly Save or Suck/Die Spells. While these are some of the strongest spells, they're also ones that are Hit or Miss, and can of course be countered very easily, in which case the "God Wizard" is soon to be a "Dead Wizard."

To me, it doesn't speak as if it's "God Wizard" material. So it has become obvious that I am missing some more crucial information that makes such character types worthy of their name. I can conclude that there are safety measures; such as buffs and lines of defense (Mirror Image, Spell Resistance etc.), though I am unsure as to the level of power they reach to. There could also be proxys for certain situations (Contingency), or methods to which the Wizard is Immortal (Greater Age Resistance?), but as far as specifics are concerned, I am at a loss.

So I turn to the community here to properly explain what a "God Wizard" will most likely have, as well as the quantifications of such a being.

The definition of a god wizard is based on the GOD. As treantmonk put it, it is about manipulating the outcome so that the mortals achieve the victory. It is not about doing everything yourself, it is about stacking the deck in your party's favor. A proper god wizard is both incredibly powerful while being very subtle. The best of them do things in ways that may not be obvious.

God wizards emphasize buffs, debuffs, and summons most of all, with a splash of utility (commonly in the form of having a scroll or two handy of minor situational spells). Wizards that cast spells like haste, slow, scatter battlefield controls to disable foes or funnel them where the party wants them, or dropping down summons to pester enemies or support the party are all primary objectives of the God Wizard.

The entire point is to let the mortals (IE - the not-wizards) achieve the victory after you have used your supernatural power to give them the edge. Martials tend to deal way more damage way more efficiently than casters will in all but the most extreme of situations. It is spamming a 1d4+1 summon spell to flood the field with flanking buddies for the rogue or hasting the party so they fight better, or giving the party's barbarian the ability to fly, or casting slow to neuter the 13 headed fast zombie hydra so that the party can dismember it without reprisal.

The point is, in the Bible, God rarely did anything himself. He acted through others. He did not confront the Pharaoh to free the slaves of egypt, he chose Moses as the messenger of his divine will. He did not tear down the walls of a city, he sent his people to shout at the wall until it magically fell down. He did not build his temple, he gave Solomon a magic seal to bind spirits to do it for him.

A God wizard facilitates the success of the party. He does so subtly. He will not win damage contests. He will not have the highest kill count. But he will be on the winning team. Because he is a God...wizard.

I’ll also point out that in general Treatmonk’s guides, while well written, are mostly for 3.5 and are very outdated for later PF play. His last guide is over two years old, which is also when he stopped posted regularly. He’s also very strongly into min/maxing and his builds are also focused heavily on high level play, where not much IRL gaming is done. Mind you the concept here of a battlefield control wizard is still a good concept.

Arcane spellcasters should generally cast boost & battlefield control spells first, then blast. Altho, a fireball that takes out a horde of mooks on round 1 is really a battlefield control spell, in effect.

The biggest strength of the 'God Wizard' style is this.
Unlike a highly tuned blaster or a SOD/SOS specialist, the God Wizard will RARELY encounter much direct GM or other player aggro, to borrow a MMO term. The GM won't get annoyed by a constant stream of 'Indiana Jones' takedowns on the BBEG with SOD/SOS spells with extremely high DCs, or by everything being evaporated by spell perfected (fill in the blank blasting spell here). The melees will also feel heroic longer than the system normally supports.

Here's an exercise for players. Estimate what the success rate is for your SOD/SOS spells used on BBEGs, Major minions, and minor minions as a function of the number of rounds that have passed in climactic encounters. I wager in most cases you'll find an upward trend as the encounter goes on that can not be accounted for by the various debuffs, dispels, etc that you've done or by expiration of limited duration effects. I would wager also that the slope would be steepest for BBEGs and nearly flat for minor minions. Frankly, future editions of the game ought to work this way---making such spells useful only after targets are significantly weakened.

I have a god wizard I rarely play because he ruins the GMs day so much.

Combined with readied actions I really screw up the enemy:
Charging fliers? Fog Cloud
Charging ground troops? Fog cloud, pit spells, etc.

Need flankers? Summon

Tired of that BBEG messing with your party? I have a few necro debuffs for that.

Enemy spellcaster? Blindness(/Deafness)

He has all of these ready to go. He also has a spontaneous 1/day spell from Arcane Bond.

By level 9 he has (on average) a minimum DC of 18+spell level and 20+SL for Necro/Conjuration spells.
(Starting int 20, +2 for levels, +4 enhancement)

Feats: Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus Necro, Gr. Spell Focus Necro, Spell Focus Conj, Gr. Spell Focus Conj, and Heighten Spell. Two feats remain available (one if not human).

Even on Save or Suck spells that is a pretty high DC (25 for SL 5). Use a Persistent Metamagic Rod if you want to really screw them.

- Gauss

By level 9 he has (on average) a minimum DC of 18+spell level and 20+SL for Necro/Conjuration spells.

(Starting int 20, +2 for levels, +4 enhancement)

Well to get this you have to start with a 18. That requires 17 of your 15 available points. I suppose by dumping str and int to 7, and having only a 12 in con & dex, it can be done, but who'd want to?

Wizards generally like being smart

I have a god wizard I rarely play because he ruins the GMs day so much.

I love God Wizards in my games. They make GMing so much easier, because I can throw serious challenges against the party without worrying about murdering them all.

15 available points? Generally I find the standard to be 20, not 15.

Str 8 (-2)
Dex 14 (+5)
Con 12 (+2)
Int 18+2human (+17)
Wis 10 (+0)
Cha 8 (-2)

Now, as I said, I don't play this guy much because he is hard for a GM to deal with. But, if I want to play him and yet be nicer about it his starting Int will be 16+2human reducing his saves by only 1.
However, I have found in practice this still does not help much.

- Gauss

The standard is 15. Says so right in the core rules. My groups use 15 and it feels weird to them to do more. :P

Right, nothing wrong with a 20pt buy, pretty common, but you need to say so.

"What exactly constitutes a God Wizard?" Casting lame spells like grease and glitterdust. Seriously, why do the best spells have to be so silly? I always gotta re-name/flavor spells when I play wizards.

Ashiel, ok, perhaps in the future I will post the expected point buy although based on PFS and the discussions on the boards it seems like 20pt buy is pretty common. :)

In the case of a 15 pb it would be starting 16+2 Int which is a DC24 (by level 9).
Str8 (-2)
Dex14 (+5)
Con12 (+2)

- Gauss

Ashiel, ok, perhaps in the future I will post the expected point buy although based on PFS and the discussions on the boards it seems like 20pt buy is pretty common. :)

In the case of a 15 pb it would be starting 16+2 Int which is a DC24 (by level 9).
Str8 (-2)
Dex14 (+5)
Con12 (+2)

- Gauss

Living Grayhawk was above-normal point buy as well. Seems to be a common theme among public campaigns. Though one of the reasons I post build for 15 PB is because it's standard and it's a lot easier for others to use. If I use standard but someone is playing with a higher point buy it's a lot easier to add to a build than it is to try and break everything down a notch (which can easily result in missing prerequisites or other problems).

True gamers roll 3d6 in order!

True gamers don't roll dice.

Touché.

The "God Wizard" as I understand Treantmonk's original concept is a wizard (or potentially another spellcaster) who manipulates the battle in such a way that the party is virtually unbeatable, but the wizard is mostly in the background or otherwise not directly involved in the battle. It's not just battlefield control or buffing, it is best viewed as the wizard making the party better, as opposed to the wizard blasting everything to shreds or depending on single spells that rely on a failed saving throw to be effective.

I have almost always played "god wizard" spellcasters. At low levels druids might actually be better "god wizards" than wizards, especially since they come with a handy-dandy flanker as a core class feature.

The concept is even useful to consider with party members who are capable of utilizing Use Magic Device for wands or other magic items, there are quite a few really good low-level buff/control spells you can use from wands.

Done properly the god caster can absolutely dominate the game, but without seeming to have done so, and instead of hogging the spotlight can make other characters shine. In many cases some other players may even feel the god caster is not contributing enough in combat because they don't realize what is being done.

I believe Treantmnonk coined the god wizard term because he felt that 'control' was the most viable option for a well-built arcane spellcaster. SoD spells are unreliable and generally single-target, while damage spells tends to be inefficient thanks to how hit points scale in 3e+. Thus, he found that the wizards focusing on control-style spells not only found a more unique niche in a party, but was also the most efficient use of your 'action economy'.

Professor Q's guide to the pathfinder wizard

This guide is like treantmonks guide, except it includes newer materials. Also the wizard is not supposed to be throwing save or die spells. One reason as you mentioned is that it is hit or miss but another reason is that either you feel useless or your party does. Where is the fun in that? The most powerful route you can go as a wizard is argueably battlefield controller and/or buffer.

A proper SoD strategy relies on the entire party. Unfortunately, most parties are too dense or too self-focused to benefit from it. The SoD cast is basically the mobile coup de grace, but you have to set up the ball. That's where the party comes in. Intimidate for -2 to all saves, the cleric dispelling protective wards, the barbarian slapping a foe with a life drinker, etc. The proper SoD strategy ends with the mage dropping the bomb after the party has set it up for success.

@Ashiel
And if your party is ready to do that then it becomes a lot more fun going the SoD way. But it still suffers a bit from hit or miss completely. Granted the chance for success has gone up considerably but when you miss the entire party's rounds was wasted, or semi wasted on suboptimal actions. When I say suboptimal I see it in the light of the known fail... Before we know whether or not it is going to be successful the action is probably not suboptimal.

Well here's the catch. The debuffing comes in the form of stuff you naturally want to do to major enemies anyway. Most effects that inflict saving throw penalties or remove spell protections also devalue the enemy in other ways.

For example, the Shaken condition is -2 to most d20 rolls.
Bestow curse is -4 to most d20 rolls.
Greater dispel magic removing spell protections is good even if your spell fails.

But the catch is, the chances of it failing will be very slim if your party does it correctly. I played a veeeeeery successful conjurer/SoD spammer (if I wasn't calling in summons I was making birdfeeders). Get your save DCs up as high as you can and then ready an action to nail the coffin shut after your party has softened them up.

The absolute best partner to a SoD caster is an antipaladin. Slap death ward on them, a life-drinker, and let them ruin everything for your enemies. They can run up to you (-2 to all saves), touch you for damage and a high DC curse (-4 to all saves). Then every time he whacks you with his weapon you take a cumulative -2 saves (from the negative levels). You can drop the damnedest things in 1-2 rounds like this. Often saving your party's actions to deal with the other enemies.

@Ashiel
Not saying that it isn't effective. It is probably the most effective way to play. But is it also the most fun for everyone? I guess it depends on how many that can make exciting characters that are based on setting up for a SoD. Truth is that I've never been a part of a group that went all out SoD. I've played with other people that went solo SoD in a party which sucks.

Well, I wouldn't ever recommend making characters purely for setting up SoDs. Most characters can probably contribute to it more or less by doing what you want them to be doing anyway. Like I said, stripping buffs off your enemies is kind of par for the course. Lifedrinkers are weapons that most martials should at least consider given the absolutely amazing benefits to inflicting 2 negative levels PER HIT with (the negative levels you would eat are absorbed by death ward, but your enemy is getting their buffs stripped if any). Intimidate is just a skill (which usually has easy-ish DCs).

Very rarely does a party have to be built for setting up the bomb. They can just do it passively. It's another form of teamwork. When you have 4 individuals doing only their own particular thing as hard as they can you generally won't find much success there either in any difficult game.

I also don't recommend people build for 1 thing only. Even my SoD caster counted SoDs among her tactics that were strong but it wasn't her only tactic. She was primarily a summoner, and she had a handful of utility/buff spells thrown into the mix for certain occasions. Her save DCs tended to be high enough that unless an enemy was sporting some serious HD/buffs/items, she would usually have a 60+% chance of success. With a little help from her allies it could easily be 95%.

It's not the right tactic against everything but it can be a very strong tactic with a very strong chance to succeed if you put in some teamwork. Some parties don't find teamwork fun though, and just want to try and compete for kill counts. Fortunately, I don't play in those parties. :P

Oh sure. If a character can either A) Be made so that it is an exciting part of setting up the SoD or B) Simply do minimal effort to help out with the SoD and then otherwise do his own thing then I guess it is just fine.
The groups I play in tend to ban SoD tactics.
And I agree with Ashiel. Avoid building yourself up to be a one trick pony in combat. And never build a character that only has use in combat. It is boring. So as treantmonk and professor Q says, try to find a way to be useful outside of combat aswell. That advice goes for everyone not just the group wizard.

A proper SoD strategy relies on the entire party. Unfortunately, most parties are too dense or too self-focused to benefit from it.

Yeah, I tried one in our game. We have a guy who designs great fighters. Unfortunately he's always jumping out and playing cowboy, so my battlefield controls did nothing but "get in his way". sigh.

Ashiel wrote:

A proper SoD strategy relies on the entire party. Unfortunately, most parties are too dense or too self-focused to benefit from it.

Yeah, I tried one in our game. We have a guy who designs great fighters. Unfortunately he's always jumping out and playing cowboy, so my battlefield controls did nothing but "get in his way". sigh.

There's always "that one guy". :P

Had a player in a long running campaign that went into low epics before I dissolved it because of both scheduling and the fact the 3.x epic level rules are bad and should feel bad. :P

He was playing a warblade. He was always jealous of the barbarian. The group gave him a life-drinker that was rolled randomly for some dungeon treasure, and he basically killed the BBEG of the campaign (a big demon-lord guy with tons of resistances, immunities, fast healing, damage reduction, quickened SLAs, and lots more; the dude was bad).

The party was basically running out of spells and most of the casters had that "one spell" they really wanted to drop on him but given that he was an outsider with a massive amount of HD and SR keyed off HD (10 + HD SR) they were pretty sure their chances of landing the spells were pretty abysmal (which was true, and they confirmed with knowledge checks). So the cleric cast death ward on the warblade who dropped his +5 holy demonbane greatsword and instead started poppin' the demonguy alongside the barbarian and the polymorphing sorcerer (who tended to stay in dragon forms).

After several rounds of grueling combat (without the boss crying uncle I might add), the party healer exclaimed that he was essentially out of heal and mass heal and didn't have any more miracle spells to try to fake it, so the party needed to finish him like a round ago. So the party casters all readied actions to use their big finishers on him at the end of the warblade's turn. The warblade went for as many attacks as he could muster and by the end of his turn he added a few more hits to the boss for a grand total of 14 negative levels.

Since the boss' SR was keyed to his HD he had -14 to SR and Saves. The party's casters hit him with heightened flesh to stone, maximized twin-spelled energy-admixtured acidic acidball (on the petrified fiend), and banishment to send melted puddle of goo back to the pit it crawled out of.

Couldn't have done it without the healer dropping healz and death ward on the martial. Couldn't have hit the enemy without the martial beating its face in. Probably couldn't have killed the darn thing without the SoDs (because the thing was build to be a timeless nearly unkillable superbeing that was difficult to damage and harder to keep damaged). Couldn't have done anything without the abjurer constantly interrupting and dispelling the big-bad's bad mojo. Without the barbarian and dragon-shaped sorcerer, the warblade wouldn't have lasted long enough to debuff the dude into the gutter.

<3 Teamwork.

It's called the "god" wizard because he's never really directly involved. He stands back and summons and empowers his minions while weakening and inhibiting his enemies. He almost never does a single hp of actual damage, but still is the master of the battle.

It requires a light touch. Like a pickpocket or a safe cracker. Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money if he makes it look like an electrical thing.

If you do everything right, no one will even be sure that you've done anything at all. Yet they absolutely would have died horribly without your aid, because you were always the one who controlled how the battle went. Let your party live in their ignorance and dance to your merry tune, like the puppets they are, ever confident in their own self deluded amazingness.

*The rest of this post just trails off into maniacal laughter.*

My Lucerne Hammer wielding Two Handed Weapon Fighter/Barbarian wishes he had a god wizard instead of a blaster... Oh, for him to take a simple enlarge spell...

I had always thought it was an affectation of arrogance. One of the fundamental strategies with a wizard is not to "lower" yourself to the role of the other players, and the "God-wizard" idea was just an amusing way of explaining that.

Schrodinger's Wizard is

when you let a player play a wizard that casts all the spells in their spellbooks spontaneously as if they were sorcerers. it can either be a legit archetype, or it can be downright cheating.

Schrodinger's Wizard is

A half elven sorcerer with Paragon Surge and a lesser quicken metamagic rod.

In Schrodinger's experiment, the cat is only dead and alive as long as leave the system closed, but as soon as you open the lid, you'd find the cat in one of the two possible states, not both simultaneously.

I always thought the Schrodinger's analogy was a way to point out that while wizards can theoretically do everything, they are still limited by their state (i.e. their selection of spell) within a specific, given moment or situation. I thought it was first used to point out a fallacy, not a character concept.

Wouldn't a wizard that can cast all spells at any given point (or at least built and equipped in such a way to have the best spell flexibility) go against Schrodinger's principle, and therefore be an anti-Schrodinger wizard?

Technically, the Schroedinger's Wizard is:

No matter what problem you posit, my wizard always has the perfect offense/defense/trick/magic item/plan to take care of it, because he has all spells Known simultaneously and will always have the perfect solution available and in memory, thought out ahead of time because he's smarter then you.

Therefore, wizards are the best class, and always win the internet.

--That's Schroedinger's Wizard.

==Aelryinth

Technically, the Schroedinger's Wizard is:

No matter what problem you posit, my wizard always has the perfect offense/defense/trick/magic item/plan to take care of it, because he has all spells Known simultaneously and will always have the perfect solution available and in memory, thought out ahead of time because he's smarter then you.

Interesting.

Now let's make a Pavlov wizard using his spells to make sure he never has to rely on conditioning...

'Findel, the internet argument in this case is the state of a closed box.

The nickname is meant to imply that if you ever actually push that statblock through a real game rather than an argument, the wizard has to choose whether or not a spell is prepared.

And it's true.

It has been a mercifully long time since anyone honestly argued that wizards always win around here. They are recognized as better, but people at least seem to grasp the concept that "schroedinger's wizard" was meant to highlight.

'Findel, the internet argument in this case is the state of a closed box.

The nickname is meant to imply that if you ever actually push that statblock through a real game rather than an argument, the wizard has to choose whether or not a spell is prepared.

And it's true.

It has been a mercifully long time since anyone honestly argued that wizards always win around here. They are recognized as better, but people at least seem to grasp the concept that "schroedinger's wizard" was meant to highlight.

Nooooo! That means I disagree with the internetz! I must go on a rampaging campaign to make my definition stand as the only one TRUE definition and win my arguments against all!!!!

or not,

lets move along

:)

Okay, but I'm right.

I'm left.

'Findel, the internet argument in this case is the state of a closed box.

The nickname is meant to imply that if you ever actually push that statblock through a real game rather than an argument, the wizard has to choose whether or not a spell is prepared.

And it's true.

It has been a mercifully long time since anyone honestly argued that wizards always win around here. They are recognized as better, but people at least seem to grasp the concept that "schroedinger's wizard" was meant to highlight.

Who would argue Wizards always win? I mean sure they'll win more then a lot of other classes, but there's not a whole lot that always wins more than a half-elf oracle of at least 11th level.

We used to see a lot of folks who would make arguments: "If situation X, wizard spell Y" which completely ignored the fact that the wizard must periodically choose spells and might choose the wrong ones.

It's easy to see how this would arise if their GM lets them stop and rest for every encounter (or even every few encounters).

There was one fellow who resorted to this in basically every thread. Blissfully, I have forgotten his name, and if you recall it, keep it to yourself please.

I believe the argument goes 'my wizard always teleports away to safety after every battle, then uses divination to find the exact spells he'll need for the next day'.