How to describe this... Samurai and Indians?
I'm looking to run a game that's sort of Seven Samurai meets the Magnificent Seven... a spaghetti western that instead of being set in the early American west takes place on the frontier of a generic Asian nation (Japan will probably be the strongest influence but we'll include some Chinese influence as well). And, there won't be any firearms- all those gunslinging lawmen and desperadoes will instead be deadly swordsmen. If you're still reading this you probably understand my vision; if you don't but you're curious enough to keep reading please feel free to ask questions.
I'm looking for swordmen (maybe one swordswoman). You don't necessarily have to be a martial class but you have to be decent enough with a sword that you may have a reputation as a badass. I might select one non-swordsman if someone has a really good idea (this party's version of the mysterious old indian shaman), but basically everyone should be some kind of swordsman. Ideally you should have a signature style... one generalist who's just good with whatever sword he grabs might be alright but the characters will be more distinct and more interesting if they specialize somehow. I recently ended a game and I've invited several of the players from it to this game. So far I have 2 commitments and 1 that I'm waiting to hear back from. I'm willing to take up to 7 players total (if there are enough good, distinctly different applications) so I have 4-5 open slots to recruit. I don't know yet what the pre-selected players will be building but I'll post that as soon as possible (or they will).
Expectations:
- I'm looking for a commitment of 5 posts/week. We all know RL stuff comes up but I'm really looking for people who will be able to post close to 1/day except for rare extenuating circumstances.
- Have fun and be lighthearted... true to the genre there will be certain people groups that are looked down on or mistreated and there may be times in the game when there's some stereotyping and things like that; we're all going to make a point of not going too far with it, but if that's something that's going to bother or offend you this might not be a great fit. I have no problem with a character who opposes that and hopes to curtail it, but if its something you'll feel like you'll need to address in the discussion thread every time it comes up you may not enjoy this setting.
- Be respectful of each other. There's plenty of issues that may come up in any PbP but I will insist that everyone involved be respectful of one another.
Character Creation:
No 3pp Materials.
7th level; 25 point buy.
Race: Read this VERY IMPORTANT document!
Class: see this document
Feats: Leadership is not allowed.
Traits: 2; no campaign traits, no drawbacks
Skills: we will be using background skills from unchained
Wealth: Average for level (23,500 gold)
Other: I’m sure I forgot stuff, feel free to ask questions.
Recruitment
- Recruitment will be open for just over 2 weeks, until 11:59 GMT on Saturday October 8th.
- For an application to be complete it must include all your crunch, a description of your appearance and personality, and some background (your 7th level so there should be some substance to this; it doesn’t need to be super long though and its a lower fantasy setting so try not to make it too over the top).
Good luck everyone, I look forward to your questions and applications!
***Important Edit***: I just spoke with one of the preselected players and he wants to claim the non-swordsman spot. He's planning to make a divine caster who focuses on buffs/debuffs and healing. If someone else comes up with a truly extraordinary idea for a non-swordsman that's significantly different than his I might allow a second one but you should definitely run the concept by me before you put much time into it.
It could be fun to at least play around with character ideas. I could see Occultist fitting. This would be a more spiritual Swordsman who channels the spirits in his items, ala Shinto. Do you think that could work?
@Nohwear- I actually read through the occultist again while I was making the classes document specifically because I had the same thought about it... I didn't make an exception for it because I didn't want to include psychic magic and they're 6 level casters, but I do think there's some precedent for where you're going with that... I'm going to say that you can go ahead and build one if you want but know that its going to be a double edged sword (you'll likely be unique because nobody else is using that class, but you'll have to work a little harder on your execution because I'm sort of skeptical about the class).
@Orannis- I'm about to watch a movie with my family but I'll look over the archetype later tonight and come up with an answer. I will say that if you're just concerned about proficiencies for your rogue you could always pick up heirloom weapon for one of your traits (I'm fine with assuming that you had masterwork transformation cast on it at some point and then paid someone to enchant it- and you can pay the normal price for the weapon).
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I'm going to toy around with some ideas and probably put something up. Just a couple thoughts to guide my thinking.
1) Would there be any restriction on types of swords? Seems to favor eastern weapons, but wanted to make sure if I get an idea for a khopesh wielder that I'm OK.
2) Dieties...where do you want to go with that?
@Orranis (or anyone else who cares)- I'll allow any rogue to take the swordmaster archetype with one caveat: tiger trance cannot be used with two weapon fighting or abilities that function like two weapon fighting (such as flurry of blows or spell combat).
@burnscar (or anyone else thinking about a full arcane swordsman)- I forgot about the sword binder... If anyone wants to try a full arcane swordsman they're welcome to give it a go, it's just going to be tricky to pull off. Besides the sword binder wizard there's the blade adept arcanist and the eldritch scrapper sorcerer you could look at. The big point here is that in order to avoid being pigeon-holed as a non-swordsman swordplay has to be primary and casting has to be secondary.
edit: I'll edit the classes document to reflect this.
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@Orranis (or anyone else who cares)- I'll allow any rogue to take the swordmaster archetype with one caveat: tiger trance cannot be used with two weapon fighting or abilities that function like two weapon fighting (such as flurry of blows or spell combat).
Tbh, despite working on a charge-oriented build, I was kind of put off of Tiger Trance right away anyways given that a Rogue will often have a hard time making that combat maneuver check (even with Agile Maneuvers). I'm planning on using the Snake Trance 90% of the time.
My stupid phone keeps dropping posts >8 (
I'll add a document about swords in the campaign heading tomorrow. And I'll get back to answering questions in the morning.
Showing up a little later than others, but I'm super interested in this idea. So many Westerns were modeled on Samurai flicks, and vice-versa in some cases, the two genres really can fit together well and play out mostly the same in some story-oriented ways. I've got no idea just what I'll make yet, although I'd echo the question on polearms. Just as the gunslingers in a team in a Western have different outlooks on life and may use different types of guns, it could be cool to have a team of swordsmen who all use very different styles and weapons.
Hard no to 3PP is kind of a bummer because this is the rare kind of game Dragon Tiger Ox was MADE for.
Who doesn't like magical jade weaponry, wire fu, and Samebito?
This game was made for path of war. The various disciplines there are much more varied than anything paizo can produce. I'll ask you to reconsider, but meanwhile I'll look at other options.
Is the base magus too magical? He'll always be using his sword, even if he'll also cast spells. I might go bladebound kensai regardless though.
The feat slashing grace has been rather nerfed recently. Will you allow using the original version. It also doesn't work with weapons like wakizashi or estoc. Would you allow it to apply to such weapons as well?
Another idea I have is a Mesmerist (Vexing Daredevil). That'll really work a lot better as a half-orc though. I don't suppose you would allow that race? It is almost human...
I really, really want in!
Omg. Have you seen the movie Bunraku? Badass. I will read up and make something. Im so excited!
Okay a question now that I'm thinking about it I'm going to ask about the elephant in the room. Is the Kensai Magus acceptable? It gets reduced spellcasting and better swordplay effects.
Oh and hit points?
Oh. I was also interested in Occultist. The implement-focused magic of that class has also felt far more Eastern to me than, say, a wizard/sorcerer/cleric (oracles might get a pass). Specifically—the Battle Host gains his magic by communing with the spirits inside his weapon, and Talisman Crafter has a *very* onmyoji-style feel to it, where you cast spells using prepared calligraphy scrolls. (And Reliquarians cast divine spells anyway)
What would your thoughts be on another submitted Occultist? It's a very martial caster class, falling somewhere between Magus and Inquisitor in combat role/melee ability.
I present to you my badass swordsman build, Veracious Carmine.
Veracious Carmine
Male human magus (kensai) 7 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 55, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +12; Senses Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 20, flat-footed 13 (+2 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +5 dodge)
hp 64 (7d8+17)
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +6
Defensive Abilities canny defense +4
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee cherry blossoms on moonlit sky +11 (1d8+7/15-20) or
. . unarmed strike +9 (1d3 nonlethal)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+2, 8 points), magus arcana (flamboyant arcana, spell-scars), opportune parry and riposte, spell combat, spellstrike
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +11)
. . 3rd—haste
. . 2nd—bladed dash, cat's grace, mirror image
. . 1st—secluded grimoire, shield, shocking grasp (2)
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +5; CMB +5; CMD 25
Feats Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Slashing Grace[ACG], Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (katana), Weapon Specialization (katana)
Traits arcane revitalization, master of the sudden strike (tian), seeker
Skills Acrobatics +11, Artistry (literature) +14, Climb +4, Craft (blacksmith) +16, Disguise +10, Fly +8, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (arcana) +14, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +14, Perception +11, Ride +9, Spellcraft +14, Survival +7, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers derring-do
Languages Celestial, Common, Samsaran, Tengu
SQ chosen weapon, iaijutsu, perfect strike
Combat Gear scabbard of vigor[APG]; Other Gear +1 silken ceremonial armor[UC], cherry blossoms on moonlit sky[UC], cloak of resistance +1, daredevil boots[ARG], effortless lace, handy haversack, hat of disguise, mundane robe, ring of protection +1, bachelor snuff (5), bedroll, belt pouch, chalk (3), flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), ink (3), inkpen, magus starting spellbook, marbles[APG] (3), masterwork artisan's tools, mess kit[UE], pot, powder[APG] (4), snuffbox, tortoise shell[ACG], soap, spell component pouch, sunrod (5), torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 421 gp, 8 sp, 6 cp
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Pool +2 (8/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Canny Defense +4 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Katana) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Deed: Derring-Do (+4 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Flamboyant Arcana (Ex) Gain a selection of deeds, and can use arcane pool in place of panache for them.
Iaijutsu (Ex) May draw chosen weapon and make attacks of opportunity when flat footed.
Perfect Strike (Ex) Use 1 arcane pool to maximize weapon dam, or 2 for +1 to crit multiplier.
Slashing Grace (Katana) Treat chosen weapon as 1-handed piercing weapon and can had Dex instead of Str to dmg.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spell-Scars (Ex) Scar-based tattoos hold up to 18 levels worth of spells.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
This wanderer is a warrior-sage, travelling the land sharing knowledge and poetry in exchange for a room to sleep and food in his belly. He is an expert blacksmith, but owns not a forge of his own anymore. He prefers to wander the world, learning whatever captures his curiosity, instead of settling down.
This wanderer is a skilled warrior, capable of cutting down even the most dangerous of foes with swordplay so skilled it seems mystical. Indeed, for the techniques he has learned bent magic into his blade. He does not hesitate to defend himself, or an innocent that is in danger.
This wanderer moves with the silken grace of a hunting cat and strikes with the inevitability of an avalanche. Tales are told of how he shattered the bandits of ten-thunders pass, of his victory in the tournament of the twisted lotus, of the teahouse left in shambles after he was attacked by Oro the ox, and of the day he returned the jade scroll of the dragon to the master on the mountain. All of these are told in varying degrees of accuracy and theatrics, but all of them are consistent in one point; his deeds were performed with a special sword. Said to have forged it from a fallen star, the wanderer has dubbed the blade "Cherry Blossoms on Moonlit Sky", an elegant name for a weapon that has gracefully ended many of his enemies.
This wanderer's name is whispered to be Veracious Carmine, but no one is entirely sure if that's the truth. They say he wears a wide-brimmed straw hat and walks with simple sandals. They also say he wears a brilliant red kimon underneath a drab set of outer robes. His skin is believed to be tan, with a small scar on the left side of his chin that splits a perpetual day's growth of beard. His brown eyes are narrow and sharp. It is said that his hands bear numerous scars across the knuckles and fingers, and one hand is always resting on his fabled sword.
Cherry blossoms on moonlit sky is reported to be a beautiful katana, one that has a dark metal blade, with a lighter edge that glimmers with stars. The guard is made of the same stuff, but is shaped like a circle of cherry blossoms around a handle that is wrapped in sharkskin and then braided around with silk and mithril ribbons. The pommel is designed with the same glimmering metal, and a red tassel hangs from it with a stylized moon charm attached. The scabbard for the weapon is a fine cherry wood, polished and reinforced at the throat and cap with the same starmetal that formed the blade.
It is believed that he studies his arts from a silver-cased cloth scroll. This scroll is littered with arcane techniques mixed with notable sword styles and motions. No one knows where he keeps the scroll.
Veracious Carmine's mind is not simple to explain, but he's not more complicated than your average person. He travels because it pleases him. He gets the chance to help new people, as well as avoid old problems. He genuinely cares for the less fortunate, but he also recognizes that he needs to eat too. His pragmatism will almost always give way to altruism if the conditions are right. He is distrustful of people who guard their words and don't speak plainly. He understands magic, but only through the lens of self-applied swordplay. He learned magic as an extension of his combat skills, instead of learning combat skills to compliment arcane power. When he has to choose between using a spell to solve a problem or using physical means, he will choose physical most of the time, unless doing so would cost lives he could otherwise save.
When traveling with companions he trusts, he will answer questions asked of him with complete, utter honesty, but he will not offer extra information. He does enjoy traveling with people towards a common location while pretending to be a normal traveler (using his hat of disguise and robes of the pauper), and only revealing himself if he absolutely has to. This penchant for dramatic appearances has started earning him a small legend.
I'm interested. I want to play as an aasimar sanctified slayer Inquisitor.
Fluff will include themes of a warrior of high graces falling from his code of honor, ronin-esque but not to the teeth.
Asia is an amazing place.
Two questions:
1) How do you want us to handle HP after first?
2) I'm considering a Magus (Bladebound), but the intelligent item can cause quite a bit of work for the GM, so I wanted to run it by you first. Would that be alright?
@Michael- 1) watch for the swords document to be added later today. 2) you can use the mechanics for any paizo deity (they're all listed in the archives of Nethys), and you can keep they're name and fluff or give them some more Asian feeling (no altering mechanics though, including alignment). Second post) in Japan the nagamaki and naginata were considered swords... I'm debating how I want to handle that- I'll either allow the naginata as a sword option, or I may open up one slot for a character who sort of fits the 'swordslinger' motif but uses a non-sword... Once I decide I'll either make an announcement or I'll include it in the swords document.
@Grimdog- I have no objection to using a swashbuckler as the chassis, just make sure you give it some Asian flavor. I will say though, I heard from the other guaranteed player he was looking at building as a swashbuckler so you might have to do a little extra work to differentiate yourself from him. He should be posting some details about his concept in this thread soon.
@Therasiph- those are the only PC races in the known world, but watch for the swords document coming later today for more info on what's available.
Hi, I am interested in playing a character similar to Toshiro Mifune's character, tossing around an Odachi. I am thinking either a fighter or ranger for that.
What do you think?
Did I miss your opinion on magus (kensai or regular)? Though with two others going for this concept I might be better off looking at something else.
Mesmerist (Vexing Daredevil) could work quite well, though I'm unsure if I should go for a couple of short swords to take advantage of two weapon feint or if I should be happy with a greatsword and just use the move action to feint. Is such a character enough of a swordsman? Mesmerist certainly have quite the eastern flavor.
@nate: you didn't write much about pure Fighters, but what about Aldori Sword specialists? :) always wanted to play one, going for the related prestige class as well.
Here's some stream of consciousness crunch. Let me know if there's any offenders within.
STR 13 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 20 CHA 9
Aasimar Inquisitor 7
Sanctified Slayer
Heresy Inquisition
140gp
+2 guided Nodachi
+1 Mithral Breastplate
Lvl 4 bump: Int
Traits
Wisdom in the Flesh: stealth
Two world magic: Prestidigitation
Skills
First priority
Intimidate
Perception
Stealth
Second priority
Knowledge
Sense motive
Social
Teamwork Feats
3 Precise Strike
6 Outflank
Feats
1 Power attack
3 weapon focus nodachi
5 antagonize?
7 cornugon smash
Spells known
0 detect magic, read magic, daze, guidance, detect poison, stabilize
1 expeditious retreat, divine favor, litany of sloth, protection from evil, sanctuary
2 silence, instrument of agony, invisibility, zone of truth
3 terrible remorse, prayer
I'm more predisposed to roleplaying than wargaming (even though I do play wargames), so I'll have some Story for you soon. I look forward to your game and appreciate your consideration. Very cool premise.
@Loup- see my answer to Michael above (and keep an eye out for the swords document later today).
@Sundakan- the primary reason for not allowing 3pp material is that I don't own any of it and I don't have the time or interest right now to learn all of the rules that would be required to include that stuff.
@Oyzar- I'm answering questions in the order they're posted, I just have a little bit too much going on to get to them all immediately. 1) See my comment to Sundakan above re:3pp. 2) Magus has tons of potential, just make sure you're a swordsman first and a caster second (most magi are). 3) I'm not a fan of the nerfed slashing grace, but I'm not completely happy with the original either... I'll post a homebrew version later today when I have a chance to find or rewrite it. 4) I'm very skeptical about the occult classes... You can apply with a mesmerist if you want but know that the class choice might end up being a bit of a liability. 5) races from my race document only.
That's a shame about the occult classes because both occultist and mesmerist could offer quite different flavors of swordsmen than would otherwise be available. They fit in perfect with the eastern flavor too. I guess I'll try to make a magus then.
I'll be working on developing the fluff for his signature style as well. Right now mechanically it is focused on being precisely aggressive and mentally demoralizing. Damage and debuffs delivered through means of brutal enlightenment.
I'll be pondering obsessively until I have something substantive for you.
Do you have any more information regarding the setting that I can draw off of or should I resort to far eastern pseudo history and classic media tropes?
***A Word about Occult Classes***
I'll edit the classes document to reflect this but, you can apply with an occultist or mesmerist if you want. I'm just trying to be upfront with people about my personal feelings about some of the psychic stuff... If you have a great idea for a swordsman mesmerist who tries to stare down their opponent before the draw, pitch it (the 3.0 oriental adventures handbook had rules for psychic duels just for that kind of thing). Or if you want to build an occultist swordsman who draws mystic powers from the spirits of his ancestors dwelling in a family katana, give it a shot. If you're idea is unique and well executed and has the right flavor the class won't be an issue. The issue will only really come up if I'm trying to pick between two applications of similar quality and the other one happens to be a class I'm more comfortable with.
I will not be taking an archetype for my Occultist. I am going for the spiritual type who can is in sync with the spirits. He even uses a shorter blade as a sign of faith. His fighting style is more defensive.
Would you be alright with some reflavoring of things to fit the theme? I'm considering using a rapier build, but the rapier's actually a jian. (Seems like probably the best weapon to use as a base.)
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Thinking about a retainer to one of the samurai. A talented swordsman, scout, and huntsmaster, but being of lowly birth could never become a samurai. He will dual-wield short blades (wakizashis or something similar depending on the previously mentioned sword document) and likely utilize the ranger class. Going to set about building a little crunch.
***Important Update***
I've added this link to the campaign heading (at the top of every page), please take a look at it.
I'll be working on the swords document next. Hopefully within the next couple hours I'll also have the swords document and revised character creation guidelines posted with it. I'll get back to questions after that's done.
Thank you for that! Everything is much clearer now. For Zhong Daxia- he will be taking the scion of humanity racial thing. He will be more of a human who has faint traces of Divinity in his lineage. Do you have a framework for the spiritual realm for this or should I again just stick to the syncretic 'canon'?
@wanderer
Retainer PCs are always so interesting. Great pick. I wish I thought of that myself!
The key is if I am selected, I will need a player in the group who wants to have such a relationship.
Can we craft stuff pregame for extra wealth?
And since I'm asking for stuff... I want the pre-errata version of the two swashbuckler arcanas, so I can pick up opportune riposte and parry & precise strike. Would you allow that?
The key is if I am selected, I will need a player in the group who wants to have such a relationship.
In the event that both of us are selected, I'd be super down for that. My guy is probably going to be a less-than-reputable desperado type though, and I don't know if your guy would want to be a retainer to such a man
@nate: you didn't write much about pure Fighters, but what about Aldori Sword specialists? :) always wanted to play one, going for the related prestige class as well.
Just to make sure the GM caught my question ;)
GM Lange,
I think I have come up with a pretty solid concept. Her name will be Yumiko Ishii, she has six levels Weapon Master fighter and one level Cleric.
Yumiko Ishii because of her gender wasn't allowed to join the ranks of her brothers and cousins and become a samurai. She was taught how to heal and through her faith she has been known to the parts as the local midwife until about five years ago. At that time, a local warlord impressed her into his service as the healer, during numerous missions for this warlord she was forced to drop the bandages and employ her Nodachi sword which was a family heirloom that was primarily thought of as a ceremonial weapon from the days of the ancients but was presented to her by her father before being spirited away.
Her warlord finally passed away with no heir and she was able to go back to her family, however tragedy struck and they are all dead to flux. She then went back to travelling, earning money by helping babies being born or by her blade.
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***Update***
I have posted the swords document and a revised character creation link (which will get updated as we go) up in the campaign heading. Please read it. If there's a sword you want to use that's not on the list ask about it- I might have missed it, but there are some I left off on purpose because they're not swordy enough, or are too foreign to the setting.
I promise I will get to every single question, I just need a little patience as I bring together background stuff (and handle RL).
Another question, as my last couple have been answered: I'm assuming you're okay with us providing flavor for our various sword styles in our characters, but how much flavoring would you allow if it potentially "interacts" with the mechanical rules?
The main reason I ask is that pretty much every way to use finesse with most weapons--especially to get Dexterity to damage--requires you to use weapons one-handed. But historically, most sword styles involved either using a sword in two hands, or occasionally using two swords. Would you be alright with a character fighting with their sword in two hands for flavor, but mechanically they're using it one-handed? What I mean is, I'm not trying to cheese out getting the best of both worlds, but I'd like to have a character wielding their sword in both hands with a graceful style.
I hope that makes sense on some level.
@rungok- no I haven't seen Bunraku. I told one of my RL friends about this game and he immediately asked the same question. I checked Netflix but it's not on there anymore. Kensai if definitely an acceptable choice. Hit points are now addressed in the revised character creation link. I'm not reviewing mechanics yet at all (so feel free to tweak things if you want).
@Thunderbeard- I've soften my stance on occult classes, the classes document has been updated accordingly.
@YanJieming- 1) hp are now addressed in the revised character creation link. 2) I have no objection to the bladebound archetype.