*Owlbear pet-mount
Relevant info: training adult Owlbears is a daunting task due to their violent and feral natures. Training 1 trick takes the same amount of time as training any other creature, but the Handle Animal check is DC 30. For Owlbear cubs, the is DC 23.
One of the functions of Handle Animal, "Rear a Wild Animal", is ambiguous on the frequency of skill checks as well as the time requirement, so there might be a second Handle Animal check to domesticate juvenile Owlbears.
So, was talking to Nether when he realized that We could also roll Knowledge Nature (at a higher DC) to get info on owlbears. So, I say roll them if you got them. :)
Yes, sorry about the late realization^
You guys are doing great, weighing all your options. I don’t like to slam doors in player’s faces “NO YOU CAN’T DO THAT BECAUSE I SAY” because I’ve been there as a player and it sucks. But I won’t make difficult endeavors easy for you, either. Follow your hearts.
Furthermore, I have a low tolerance for Player vs. Player deathmatches. Agreeing to spar with nonlethal damage or fighting til first blood is fine; I just wanted my position on this to be clear in case things got out of hand. Not that I think this tension will come to that -a good habit for GMs is to prepare for every possibility.
Follow your hearts.
Okey dokey! :)
*Shoots Owlbear*
Follow your hearts.Okey dokey! :)
*Shoots Owlbear*
From the Notes of Henry Southgard; mercenary lieutenant, armorer, and company cook:
Scouts brought back an Owlbear to feed the company, and it's the weirdest damn meat I've ever seen. Too tough and gristly to be from a bird, too pale and stringy for mammalian meat. Forelegs (Arms?) are the worst; the best way to eat those is probably to set it out as bait and cook whatever it lures in. Still, there's enough of it that I can experiment and see what works best.
Preparation: From experience, it's best to treat Owlbear meat like exceptionally tough horseflesh. Tenderize it, cut it across the grain, rub in lard and pepper, then fry it on a skillet until the grease runs nut-brown. For a less gamey taste, cleaning the grease out between steaks seems to help.
The worst part is the tenderizing. Had to borrow the farrier's portable anvil for the job, and I don't think those bloodstains are coming out.
*Shoots Owlbear*
THE PLOT THICKENS
Sorry for the infrequent posts, work's been a little nutty this last week.
*Shoots Owlbear*THE PLOT THICKENS
Indeed! I can't wait to see what happens. I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now though to avoid biasing anyone's responses. :)
...the best way to eat those is probably to set it out as bait and cook whatever it lures in.
Love it! :)
All right, this new ruling on PvP combat changes things for me. I'm now feel I'm getting the short end of the stick for the following reasons:
- What's happening in the story doesn't support Mot's plan. Our group is under time pressure to find the cure spell. Our group is within sight of enemy controlled territory. And our group has barely been able to train our friendly tiger. Now Mot wants to train an actively hostile and very dangerous creature?
- The game rules don't really support Mot's plan. There was some question if we even can roll high enough to train the Owlbear, and even if we can, we certainly can't do it consistently enough to make the training not interfere with our overall mission. Its too far at the top end of our rolls. That's not even getting to the part where the rules say it will take days and days of good rolls to make the training work.
- I've tried to get Nme'an on board with a compromise. Of not waking the thing that almost killed two of us and instead find the little, trainable Owlbear cubs. Mot has stayed firm on his course with no compromises and ignored everything the rest of the party has said.
- This is not a mutual conflict. Nme'an has never had any desire to attack Mot. And what's more Nme'an will not be killing Mot no matter what happens. So now I'm looking at having to leave a game by having to defend myself after a compromise was not accepted all in a fight I intend not to win. That's a little depressing.
Before I was content with whatever was going to happen, up to and including Nme'an's death. I've already planned for it in fact. I was happy to let both characters be themselves no matter where that lead. Now that it potentially leads to (essentially) the game ending and I'm not so happy anymore.
Thoughts?
I totally get Chewie's/Mot's desire to have an awesome mount like an owlbear; it's just the right sort of ridiculous for his character and I think that some day he should probably have one. But the idea of training it right now is incongruous with the urgency and danger of the task at hand. And that's not even considering the fact that we almost assuredly cannot train the thing (Mot would have to roll a 20 along with two assists to even hit the first DC).
Additionally (and I don't mean to make this aggressive in any way), the reason we're at this point is that Chewie and Nether had discussed the idea of turning the owlbear into a mount outside of the Discussion/Game threads, which puts the other three of us in an awkward position and leaves me feeling a little strong-armed.
I suppose in the end, I'm not getting Mot's sudden and relentless attachment to an animal that very nearly killed a few of us and is exceedingly difficult to train. Beorae wants Mot and Nme'an to cool down and work through their differences. ;-)
Hang on, I'm cooking something up
Alright. Thank you for speaking up, I had no idea that you guys felt shorted or strong-armed. And deepest apologies -that was never my intention. My strategy was to provide the information (with the Handle Animal DCs) and let you guys figure something out, but I see now that my most recent ruling came off as heavy-handed and eager for conflict. Disregard the ruling for now.
Raga, thank you for explaining your/Nmean’s position. You won’t get kicked off for defending yourself.
I’ve invoked this rule over past games (on physical tables, never before on play-by-posts) when I have two alphas in a party who would not compromise. Usually stating as much was enough to encourage the players to find a different way to solve differences. I’ve just seen PvP deaths plant little grudge-seeds between players (not characters) and that was what I wanted to avoid. Also, it bugs me when PCs do not die heroically -they should be destined for greatness, in my opinion. Perhaps in play-by-posts, something is lost in translation, or perhaps I stated it too late. Or, perhaps the whole thing is completely unfair and the ruling should let the dice roll and see what happens, and if that means a PC dies and the player has to make new character, so be it (so long as the assurance is not abused). I’m open to your thoughts on this.
I really appreciate what each of you brings to the table. The level of teamwork, writing skill, and quick grasp of the rules is a rarity on the play-by-posts and I've really enjoyed running this game for you, and your fellow players in the Silver Scale. I want this game to be interesting, challenging, and most of all, fun. Let me know what we can do to keep it that way.
I feel that the fault is primarily mine in this instance. Whether I've not made Mots position clear enough, or just haven't posted as often as I should to make his case apparent. My apologies for that and before we go on allow me to make it clear.
Mot wanted an owlbear to ride.
Mot is stupid and short-sighted.
Mot found out about baby owlbears and was willing to let the old one alone.
Nme'an tried to kill a helpless neutral creature after neutralizing the threat.
Mot views that act as an evil one.
Mot isn't trying to defend his (admittedly AWESOME) idea to have an owl-bear mount.
Mot is trying to defend a helpless creature who he thinks doesn't need to die.
Creature is now dead.
Mot is furious at the "needless" waste of life. (As a barbarian he grew up closer to nature than some)
Mot will do something violent. But it was NEVER my intent to kill Nme'an, or even seriously wound him. Mot considered him a friend up to this point.
Ok, whew. I think that covers it. Anything else I can clarify from my side of things?
Ps. Did I mention how much I DESPISE PC/PC conflicts?! Such a hassle! :/
Thanks for the response, guys. Between Mot's short-sightedness, Nme'an's singular focus on duty, the owlbear's nearly killing the entire party (if Shark and Mot had gone down, we'd only have Nme'an between us and a bloodbath), and Nether's PC-conflict ultimatum, I think the worst-case scenario became a little too close for comfort in our minds.
I know the four of us are capable of separating player ego from character ego, so I'm not worried about any long-term disputes between us. Chewie and Raga, you're both playing your respective characters exceptionally well! I enjoy and appreciate the depth and complexity you're bringing to the table (I often feel that I'm not nearly good enough to keep up with you guys!). And Nether, this game is wonderfully fun—you're doing an absolutely superb job running this game and I really appreciate your patience and guidance in teaching us the ropes. Every day is a new lesson (today included). Thank you!
Oh, and Themp's a jerk.* That's all.
Right. Let's go in order:
Nether:
Like Beorn, I too want to commend you on your GMsmenship. I entered into this not knowing what really to expect. The great narrative you've built for us with all the fun characters and situations, along with your always helpful and understanding attitude very quickly turned this game from something I wasn't sure I'd want to check every two days to something I eagerly anticipate updates to. I think you may have spoiled me on my first game since I can't imagine getting a better GM!
On the issue at hand, I didn't see the info drop about training the Owlbear as anything other than your usual, helpful guidance. It was the ruling on PvP death that came as a turning point. Before that, I was willing to follow the story wherever it lead, including any actions Mot or the others choose to do. I took the shot at the Owlbear and had a list of five possible outcomes (ranging from no fight at all to Nme'an dying) and where I'd go from there. I would have been happy with any of those five occurring, until number five meant I wouldn't be able to play anymore.
I could have spoken up sooner but I didn't because I never really thought Chewie would allow Mot to kill over this (even though I had a plan in place in case I was wrong :p) and because I didn't want to ask anybody to alter their character's characterization for my sake. I wanted to see where things would lead without interference.
Another aspect here is I'm very aware of the complaints about Paladins applying too much control on a party, and doing the "my moral way or the highway" thing where nobody is allowed to so much as think a bad thought or the Paladin beheads them or whatever. I've tried avoid that with Nme'an. He has flaws (like trying to replace valuable party members as he tries to complete the mission above all else) but he's willing to compromise somewhat for the greater good (not turning Themp over to the angry dad / pledging to look for an Owlbear cub).
Perhaps I need to be a bit more open about his thinking at times though. For instance Nme'an walking over to get his bow was not so he could shoot the Owlbear, it was to give the party another round to find an alternate solution. It was only when Mot moved and the story screamed to me "take the shot!" that I did so. But all that may have been much more clear in my head than out of it. Basically, there has rarely been a time where I'm not willing to find a compromise. Maybe I just need to communicate more to make that clear. I too want the game to be fun for everyone. :)
To Chewie:
Two big issues here:
The first and most relevant is that Nme'an had no idea Mot was such a big protector of animals. We've seen Mot kill standard wolves with joy. We've seen him skin one and wear it as a hat. We've seen him clobber a werewolf. And we just saw him bite an Owlbear unconscious. As far as Nme'an knew, Mot was acting on an irrational whim wanting to train an untrainable creature. There was no indication that the sanctity of nature (or whatever :p) was at stake. Killing it would be no more or less problematic than killing one of the earlier wolves, or so Nme'an thought. No mount, no problem it seemed.
The other issue... of this first issue... is Nme'an's basic thought process goes 1. Complete the mission, 2. Protect the group, 3. Protect yourself. Tied for 10: Everything else. The Owlbear nearly killed two of the group and there was no telling if the Owlbear would wake up and start again. Where Mot saw a helpless creature, Nme'an saw a violent creature that threatened 1, 2, 3, and 10! What's more, it was a creature that was where they needed to safely camp, and that was within sight of the enemy stronghold. Since there seemed to be no solution to safely training the Owlbear Nme'an basically had to take the shot. It would be completely out of character not to.
The second issue is that while Mot is probably a lot of fun to play as, and is a blast to read about (the events surround the final werewolf encounter are pretty much the definition of epic) he's pretty hard to play opposite of. Generally he has no opinion on things, or is asleep on his horse, or is grinning at the sky. Specifically in this instance, he chose a path that was unworkable by the story AND the game rules and then ignored what everybody was saying. It kinda cuts out the choices on our end. Having Mot be stupid and short sighted is one thing, but his decisions and lack of compromise were railroading the entire group towards disaster. Fun for Mot and in character, sure, but not so much for the rest of us. Especially if it might mean that half of us get kicked out of the game (which of course we now both agree wouldn't have happened since there would have been no killing)
But all that said, at the same time I don't want to be one that asks anyone to change their character. I LIKE how consistently Mot has been played! This presents a dilemma of "Your character is hard to talk to and was railroading us towards failure... but don't change!" So take that as you will. :p
To Beorn:
Yeah, I only spoke up because the worst case scenario became "the game ends (for me)" instead of "something interesting happens and we all move on." I agree with everything you said, except I don't think you're writing is falling behind. There's been several times where I've had to step up to keep up with the rest of you.
And finally to Zack:
Themp IS a jerk! All Nme'an wants to do is 1. Complete the mission, 2. Protect the party, and 3. Protect himself, and he gets called an unidentifiable name for his trouble! :(
(...and by :( I mean :p)
To address the first issue: Yeah, I can understand how this side of Mot could come as a surprise to Nme'an, to be fair though, this is the first creature that we've neutralized WITHOUT killing it outright. Mot has no problem with annihilating ANYTHING that is an active threat to him or his friends, but once the threat has passed the Urlghain doesn't particularly enjoy killing beasts or men.
Regarding the second issue: Yes, I agree. It is difficult to play a dumb character intelligently. :P
It’s good group, when each of us spurs the others to better roleplay! Thank you Chewie for explaining Mot’s rationale (on the other side of that coin, it can be difficult to roleplay HIGHLY Intelligent characters too).
Thank you for the vote of confidence, and it looks like we are of one accord. Or close to it, anyway.
So! Amendment to the harsh ruling: if you two break into a tussle, Themp gets kicked out for being a jerk.
Heh, but seriously, if violence happens, then it happens. I would still like to avoid PvP deaths if we can, and I know now that neither Nmean or Mot would take it that far in this scenario. Still, nobody will be ejected for fighting and killing someone else. I might brainstorm a milder, in-game consequence for killing a party member, but none of you need to be afraid of getting kicked out of the game entirely.
Proceed with the game, I say!
Ha! I hadn't thought about a combat maneuver! A few of questions and comments:
1. Normally doing a combat maneuver provokes its own AoO. Does it still do that when it's performed as a surprise action?
2. If so, Nme'an is allowed to strike back and that damage is applied to the penalties of Mot's attempt which could still cause it to fail... I think.
3. I believe Nme'an is flat footed due to the surprise round leaving his CMD at 14. Obviously Mot beat that but it might be important if Nme'an is able to respond.
4. If Nme'an were to try and trip Mot as Mot tries the disarm wouldn't that cause ANOTHER AoO and if Mot responded with another Manuever...We could be in an infinite loop! :p
Nether: Mainly I'm waiting on the initial AoO ruling to see what Nme'an will do. :)
Edit: Would Intimidate's Demoralize action work on a player character? Beating Mot's DC on that is dead easy (10+2[HD]-2[Wis]) = 10. :)
Eh... Or I could remember that surprise round = flat footed = no AoO. :)
I'll post here so I don't interrupt the narrative with /ooc. Mot is shaken for 1 round, but holds the paladin's mace. Nme'an is armed only with his shield. Mot's turn!
On an almost related note, Nme'an, have you ever considered Improved Shield Bash as feat for the future? Just a thought.
Answers to questions!
1. You answered this one yourself. Nice!
2. That is correct. Any damage dealt from the AoO during the combat maneuver is a penalty to the CMB roll.
3. Correct, being flat-footed also lowers your CMD.
4. Combat Maneuver AoO chains are hilarious! But only doable if you can take more than 1 AoO per round, via the Combat Reflexes feat.
Intimidate-Demoralize works on other PCs -I've already tried it on you guys once or twice I think.
"Mot's turn"?
What about the rest of us? ;)
Will post within the next 2 hours. Roll initiative, right?
Right... Swim checks. Is it even possible to swim after my lost weapon? Or is it just decidedly *gone*?
You are free to attempt Swim checks! Just remember what happened to Barbarosa.
The time it would take to get out of your armor might not be worth the prolonged search. But, that is up to you, Sir.
No search. Something a bit more drastic instead. Mot's steal and throw didn't quite fit into my plans but it came close enough. I'm a big believer in drastic actions having drastic consequences... so here we go! :)
p.s. Nme'an is mad as hell, but I can't stop snerking at how awesome and hilarious Mot's actions were!
You are free to attempt Swim checks! Just remember what happened to Barbarosa.
What does the Nazi invasion of Soviet Russia have to do with searching a river for a lost weapon?
What does the Nazi invasion of Soviet Russia have to do with searching a river for a lost weapon?You are free to attempt Swim checks! Just remember what happened to Barbarosa.
I was almost sure it was a quip at Themp, but couldn't find out how...
I was thinking of Pirates of the Caribbean but didn't see a connection between this and The Curse of the Black Pearl
Cryptic GM be cryptic
Hey, Nmea’n, I have no problem with you separating from the group for a time, but there’s a few things to be aware of if you’re gonna go it alone.
Firstly, you guys have just finished your 8th hour of travel. Urging your horse any further will count as a Forced March, and you’ll need to pass a Handle Animal DC 12 for the first hour of travel, DC 14 for second. Creatures carrying riders automatically fail their Constitution checks while making a Forced March, and take 1d6 lethal damage and the Fatigued condition. Taking the reigns and walking alongside the horse would be a little easier (I would roll Constitution checks for the horse, you can roll Constitution checks for yourself), though the Handle Animal checks would still be required, the Handle Animal DC (starting at 10) would only increase if the horse took the nonlethal damage from a failed Constitution check. Here are the details on a Forced March, if that is what you intend to do.
Secondly, be aware that if you set up camp by yourself, you can’t both sleep and keep watch. While sleeping, Perception checks take a -10 penalty. Speaking of camp, remember that it takes several minutes to get your armor off and on again, and without the Endurance feat, you cannot sleep in Medium armor without waking up Fatigued (which kind of defeats the purpose of sleeping). You’ve still got your sword and shield though, should something go bump in the night (but don’t let that fear get the best of you).
Lastly, setting up camp will rely on your own Survival skill. Rolling low might mean you couldn’t get a fire going, or you find a place that isn’t all that concealed.
I think those are the main things you would have to deal with. Nothing insurmountable, just inconveniences that could give you trouble down the road. I’m curious to see where this goes!
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Wait, we're supposed to know history now?
I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS!
;p
I don't suppose I know how tough our horses are? Regardless, presumably the horse would take enough damage to knock it out then Nme'an could just Lay On Hands it back awake though, right? :p (Not that the horse would be too happy about it!)
On the armor issue, one thing I want to do in the long run is drop down to one of the high end medium armors. Same level of protection, less ACP, more dex, and importantly, no fatigue when combined with the Endurance perk. Too bad I explicitly left my original armor all the way back in Thaleniel. :(
Horses are pretty hefty creatures, but Nme'an has slightly more hp than a normal horse. Lay On Hands is definitely a solution to that obstacle.
The heavy armors have their place, in my opinion. Armor bonuses count toward Flat-Footed AC, and Dex counts toward Touch. Whenever I get heavy armor for a character I play, I usually gravitate toward masterwork or magical full plate, especially if I know my character's Dex won't get higher than a 13 or 14.
Explore your options, though. The highest AC/lowest ACP medium armor would be the breastplate, followed closely by a full suit of chainmail.
Well... I intended Nme'an to ride off through the night but someone had to go appeal to his better nature. Plan ruined. :(
:p
Now Beorae's the jerk!
Darn Armor Check Penalty!
The Setting: Some approximation of Dungeon Grid, with fancy graphics. Specifically, some sort of mountain plateau made of warm, tan colored rock peaking about above a cloud deck.
The obstacle: Some kind of large black object too tall and smooth to climb that stretched across the entire plateau preventing Nme'an from continuing on right to left.
The solution: A sort of hot air balloon docked on the left side of the obstacle with a visible ballon berth just past the obstacle. The ballon had a typical hot air balloon type basket, but the top seemed more like a small inflated zeppelin. No burner or anything like that...
The roll:
The result: Nme'an gets on board the balloon but the weight of his armor causes him to plunge through the weak basket. The last we see of our beloved, heroic, charming, good looking, honest, brave, friendly, cheerful, and in all other ways "all right" knight is him doing the classic sky diver arms and legs out hold steady maneuver... while slowly spinning in a clockwise flat spin... before disappearing below the clouds never to be seen again...
(This dream really happened.)
:)
*The roll type was never specified, so I made one up here...
My sister's wedding is this weekend, so I'm probably going to have a hard time getting online until Sunday night. I'll try to keep an eye on things, though.
No worries, Beorn.
Each of you will need 8 hours of sleep. 4 hour shifts usually works between 3 watchers, unless there is a few hours you won't bother with a watch.
No worries, Beorn.
Each of you will need 8 hours of sleep. 4 hour shifts usually works between 3 watchers, unless there is a few hours you won't bother with a watch.
No worries, Nether. Worked it into my post.
Hey just started new job won't be able to post for a bit please autopilot mot as you see fit nether thanks
Well, congrats!
Hope you get back soon.
Out of curiosity, how does the new job prevent you from posting?
My first weeks schedule was off the wall and left me about 2 hours a day to actually do stuff. That stuff usually being getting ready to go back to work.
My schedule is changing though and so hopefully I'll be able to start posting again sometime this week. Until then, I see Mot is in Nethers most capable hands. :)
Daaamn
Well, woes of being a rookie, I guess. I say unload all the work on him too. :p
Nme'an, can I get some clarity from your last post? Does Nme'an intend to stay up all night, or simply give the appearance of being awake while resting?
Not getting your 8 hours rest will start your day with the Fatigued condition (the condition is removed once you get 8 hours of rest). Just to make sure you're aware.
Nme'an is staying up all night. Can't have him be too cheerful in the morning. :p
Understood. Working on a nighttime-morning post now (edit: I'll wait for Beorae's rolls before posting). Is everyone (save Nmean) in position on DG where their characters are going to sleep?
Am now. ;)
I'll be out of town for the next day or two. If I can post, I will, but otherwise I am sorry for the lapse in regular posting (or approximation thereof).
It's ok. I'll blame Raga anyway. ;)