Ah, very nice.
I completely missed that ride might have had a point spent in it since the math (un)conveniently worked out so it seemed to simply be getting the +1 dex bonus. Also, I'm glad you reminded me about the armor check penalty. Important since I'm about to switch out armors. :)
Yep, totally agree Keen is badly worded. I had seen a few side references to it being about critical hits in other spells and abilities but I trusted the wording of its main text. It makes more sense for it to be about "bonus" critical sharpness than being so sharp it... cuts farther!
For what it's worth, I would think Defending can transfer the point it cost and any addition unallocated points to AC, but any points being used by another ability attached to the weapon would not be transferable, since the other ability is relying on those other points. So basically:
Weapon +1 + Defending = Weapon +1 or Weapon +0 / AC +1
Weapon +2 + Defending = Weapon +2 or Weapon +1 / AC +1 or Weapon +0 / AC +2
etc...
But:
Weapon +2 + Defending + Keen = Weapon +1 / Keen or Weapon +0 / AC +1 & Keen
... if that makes any sense. :)
So, hmm, as Chewie pointed out, I did far too many actions in my last post as Themp.
I'd like to know which are valid, i.e. if the skill checks count as standard or free actions.
Sense Motive does not cost an action, thankfully.
In general, most people don't use Diplomacy in combat, because its description says it can take up to a few minutes (1 minute = 10 rounds in combat). So, I say that this particular instance, the use of Diplomacy will cost a standard action.
Feinting is also a standard action. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Attack actions, as you know, are also standard actions.
I know this is still a learning experience for most of you, so how's this: Themp can reroll his attack on his next turn, if he still wishes to attack. For the turn he just took, I will need him to pick between rallying support (Diplomacy), or feinting the drunk (Bluff), based off the rolls he already made. Let me know in Discussion, Themp. Thanks.
EDIT: It helps if I read the /ooc in the Gameplay before posting here :P
I'll treat Themp's turn as an attempt to gather support from other patrons, and disregard the rest.
Hey just wanted to let everyone know, Netherfire will be posting later on today. He's been busy, but I'll let him fill in any details as he will. Anyway, keep an eye out for it!
I've updated Nme'an's character sheet with his new supplies and armor and also did the clarity pass on the skills so I can more easily tell what bonuses to apply and why I am applying them. Everything should be right but if anyone wants to double check me that would be lovely. :)
Should I regen Themp's health?
Not fully. One night of rest will heal the number of hp equal to your hit dice (effectively, your level). So, at level 1, Themp would heal 1 hp after one night of rest.
Skills look good, Nme'an.
I thought Themp took non lethal damage which was said to heal at 1hp per hour?
Whoops! You're right. I'm full of bees. Themp is at full hp.
Are we following the rules listed on the carrying capacity page? If so Beorea and Themp are more or less screwed... and were from the beginning of their creations...
I wasn't going to enforce carrying capacity rules for the first level, while everyone was learning how to play. Don't worry about it for now, Ragashingo. But, it is a good thing to keep in mind, because it is very easy to forget.
Speaking of first level, how are you handling leveling? Is it XP-based or event-based?
In between munches (way before the Grand Wizard enters the room), Themp slaps on his ever-charming smile and turns to Beorae.
"So, freckles, you seen pretty well-fed." *wink* "What did you do for living before blindly going into crazy quests for dying old men?"
Another Shark training question: Does the training have to be in a solid 3-hour block, or can it be three one-hour blocks? I'm trying to figure out how Beorae and Shark can train while they're on the road without spooking the horses. :)
Also, 3 hours per day is a freaking ton of training. Yeesh.
@ZackDark: Leveling will be XP based, with an attempt to have the levelings take place at key events. So... yes? Both? Either way, all of you will be leveling as a group. I know from personal experience that it's no fun being the last one in a party to level up, and I want to ensure you all have fun. This is a GAME, after all.
@Beornlake: The training must be done in 3 hour blocks. I know this pretty much takes up most of Beorae's time, since the standard usage of hours will be: 8 hours sleeping, 8 hours traveling/adventuring*, and then 8 hours setting up/ tearing down camp.
*traveling for more than 8 hours a day will require Constitution checks. If you press your mounts into a "forced march" (traveling longer than 8 hours), your horses automatically fail the Constitution checks if they carry riders.
One thing I love about GMing, is the preparation for Knowledge checks. It kind of forces me to research things I would've never thought to learn about on my own.
Sample for my own benefit:
8 - 4 travel
4 - 8 set up camp
8 - 4 sleep
4 - 8 de-set up camp
It really takes four hours to set up a camp?
Anyway, I'd suggest that Beorae suggest that we rotate in the put up and the tear down duties giving her and Shark four training slots per week as shown in this masterfully rendered training schedule. (Eh... top line is set up camp, bottom line is tear down)
By "set up/tear down camp" I meant preparing sleeping arrangements, forage/hunt food, start a cookfire, eat, and work on projects (training, crafting, studying, and other roleplay). You know, general relaxing that isn't sleeping. Sorry for the confusion.
So it should be okay for the Beorae/Shark training time to be worked into the setup/teardown time?
Yep!
Random question about multiclassing: What happens to your base attack and saves?
Apply the bonuses of the first level of your second class to your current character's BAB and saving throws. For example, if one of you wanted to multiclass with the fighter class, you would add +1 to your BAB and +2 to your Fort save. You would also gain the bonus combat feat that fighters gain at first level, along with the hit dice and skill points. Make sense?
But only the first level or can we go further by applying more points?
On Detect Evil: This spell does not require a saving throw, which means it will identify anyone who is evil, from puppy-kicking minions to genocidal masterminds, as long as they don't have spells or special abilities to block it.
However, as noted by Mot, Detect Evil is cast with Verbal and Somatic components, and requires a Divine Focus (see Components in the link). Verbal components require spell incantations to be spoken clearly and boldly. Somatic components require special movements with at least one hand to properly cast the spell. A Divine Focus is a clearly displayed holy symbol (which I don't think our Paladin has to worry about). Unfortunately, EVERYONE in the antechamber would notice a casting of Detect Evil.
Revisiting this one, I'm wondering if Nme'an's version of Detect Evil actually is silent. Instead of being the actual spell that requires noticeable actions, the Paladin's ability is marked as a Spell-like Ability (Sp) which are said to have: "no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component."
Speaking of armor's effects on spells, by my calculations Nme'an now has a 50% chance to fail a spell (35% for Banded Mail, 15% for Heavy Steel Shield) but how does that actually work? Does one roll a d20 with 1-10 = fail 11-20 = pass? If you fail to cast a spell is it the same as using it, aka does it subtract from your total spells per day?
And finally, I was poking around the Cleric's domains last night and really liked Defense and Leadership but seeing as Sarenrae is Nme'an's deity he would be limited to the domains of Fire, Glory, Good, Healing, Sun and the subdomains of Agathion, Day, Heroism, Light, Restoration, Resurrection if he multiclassed as a Cleric somewhere down the road, correct?
@Ragashingo:
1. You're right about Detect Evil's lack of spell components. Sorry that I missed that detail. Just remember that "at will" means it still costs a standard action to cast. Given the lack of components, I can tell you what Nmea'n would've detected, had he cast Detect Evil on the Mortimer Dacius, if you want.
2. Arcane Spell Failure percentage only applies to arcane spells. Druids, clerics, paladins, and rangers use divine magic to cast spells. Sorcerers, wizards, and bards use arcane magic. That is to say, Nme'an and Beorae don't have to worry about spell failure percentages.
3. Subdomains are not available in the Core Rulebook. And yes, a cleric of Sarenrae would be limited to the domains of Fire, Glory, Good, Healing, Sun. If Nme'an's rp can support the ideas behind the Defense and Leadership domains, I'll figure out a way to make it work.
@ZackDark: If your character was already multiclassed with 1 level of fighter, you can gain another level of fighter the next time you earn enough xp to level up.
Though, I will say now that Pathfinder is built to really reward characters who stick to one class. Some players like that and some don't. My opinion? Play what you wanna play. If Beornlake decides that Beorae would be awesome as a multiclassed druid monk, go right ahead.
However, if you decide to multiclass, I will not allow take-backsies if you realize that multiclassing was a mistake. Take some time and read up on the synergy of both classes before committing a whole level to another class. I can help you with that decision if you like.
I'm sending each of you a private message with the link to the new map. You'll find your characters on the road.
1. Yep, we both missed it. No big deal. Good to know for the future though.
2. Very very good to know. I'm sure that the difference arcane and divine magic is explained somewhere but I never stumbled upon it or it never clicked for me.
3. Yeah, I was wondering about the subdomains.
As for the multiclassing, knowing that Nme'an won't have spells fizziling on him every other time because of his armor, I now fully intend to mix in a bit of Cleric with my Paladin. But just a bit, perhaps only even a single level of Cleric. I'm still considering WHEN to do it though.
And as for domains. I took another look at them and would choose Fire and Defense. These two seem to best fit Nme'an, his backstory, and his intentions. In Nme'an's backstory it says:
Still Nme’an persevered. He served where he could, learned to fight from whoever would teach him, and longed for a day where he might have the skill and opportunity to once again place himself between innocents and harm.
and
More recently, Nem’an left his position with the town guard, having been hand picked to train with The Order of the Dawnflower. It was there he found the secret to his success against the Goblin attackers all those years ago. The goddess Sarenrae, whom The Order worships, had been watching over him all along, and now he is able to repay her.
Fire would represent his allegiance to Sarenrae and his desire to have the skill to defend the weak. Defense would, naturally, come from his desire to place himself between the weak and those who would harm them. Roleplaying both would not be a problem, defense especially, as they are both already built in to Nme'an character.
And in gameplay terms I like Fire's offensive power which would give Nme'an a few ranged attacks without worrying about the whole swapping around weapons and shields. Defense's power to protect allies once per day seems suitably powerful without being overpowered, and I really like the Shield spell for giving Nme'an even more AC for a limited amount of time.
Question: We're thinking of setting up some sort of watch for the night. Is there any method that would let us do so without making everyone tired (I forget the exact effect...) in the morning? We're noob campers, how do the pros do this?! :p
For instance, could we go to bed 2 hours early, then do rotating 2-hour watch shifts through the night? We'd still each get 8 hrs of sleep, but would waking up for watch cause regen problems?
Or we could just eat into that 4 hours for personal / camp tear down time. I think we have a bit of flexibility there to play with...
I think only the wizard class requires a full 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep (it's to keep up that youthful appearance). For everyone else, waking up for watch should be fine, as long as their hours of sleep total 8 for one night. Not getting enough sleep imbues the fatigued condition. The 2-hour shift system should work fine.
Also, Nme'an: Defense is a subdomain, and I cannot allow it. I get mixed up when switching between the d20psfrd and the PRD on the paizo site and missed it. The Protection domain grants bonuses to the saving throws of yourself and you rallies, which can be just as handy.
Bringing up domain spells reminds me of something all of you should know:
Armor Class can get a bit tricky when you are calculating multiple bonuses. Remember that the same type of bonuses do not stack (unless it is a Dodge bonus). If you have two bonuses of the same type to apply to your AC, only the higher of the two will apply.
For example, if Nme'an was using his shield in combat, and then cast the Shield spell, the spell would only affect his AC if the shield strapped to his arm granted a shield bonus less than +4. So, if Nme'an used the shield he has now, his AC would improve by 1 with the Shield spell.
This restriction may sound like it sucks, but it keeps things from getting out of hand at higher levels. If it's any consolation, bad guys are subject to the same rules as the players.
Now, for the current map:
COVER:
Trees provide Cover against ranged attacks.
Shrubs provide Partial Cover against ranged attacks.
The boulders provide Total Cover against ranged attacks.
MOVEMENT:
The gravel, grass, and road do not affect move speed.
Shallow water reduces movement by half.
Make a Swim check to move into the deeper water.
Shrub squares take 10 feet of movement to get through (same as shallow water).
Trees and boulders are impassable (though I will allow Bull Rush attempts through those squares if you must).
Does that cover everything?
BULLLLL RUUUUUUUSH.
Ah, thanks for the info on Cover. Also, the boulders might benefit from a text label or two. ;-)
Could we fire ranged attacks from total cover or just regular covers?
Yeah, I forgot about defense being a subdomain too. Fair enough. Protection is nice too. The +1 on saving throughs doesn't excite me as much, though maybe it's more useful than I think, but Sanctuary seems fairly awesome for throwing a chance at some protection to a party member who has gotten into trouble.
So, Paladin + a Fire / Protection Cleric.
Now comes the hard part: Choosing when to take a Cleric level. I am really looking forward to the Paladin's Lay on Hands for letting Nme'an wade into a battle and have four "free" heals for himself as swift actions. Also things like Divine Health and the mercies that eventually come to Lay on Hands both sound very useful. But earlier access to Channel Energy + the Domains + earlier access to magic is also very tempting...
Right now I'm leaning towards something like:
1. Paladin 1 - What I am currently.
2. Cleric 1 - channel energy / cleric magic / domains
3. Paladin 2 - lay on hands
4. Paladin 3 - divine health
5. Paladin 4 - more channel energy / paladin spells / another smite evil
6. Paladin 5 - Divine bond (probably the magic weapon)
7. Cleric 2 - More Cleric spells per day / keep domain powers more equal to current leveled enemies...
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the first multiclass level is most effective after your 4th main level (i.e.: Pally 1-4, then Cleric 1, then Pally 5). Something to do with Base Attack Bonuses or something?
Yeah, I'd be giving up +1 base attack since the Cleric has no 1st level bonus there, but I think all the magic and healing that I'd get in return more than makes up for it.
Strong saving throws are important when you deal with attacks that are not from your typical sword or bow. Spells like Fireball or Charm Person, and poisons -all of these require a saving throw to resist. I haven’t thrown any of these things at you guys yet. Believe me, it turns into a real bloodbath if a weak-willed tank is mind-controlled against their own party (don’t worry just yet, I’ll play nice for now).
I would recommend taking the first Cleric level after your second Paladin level. Paladin saves get really good at level 2, and having that under your belt before taking a level in a less-martial class might be a wise decision. Up to you, though.
@Beorae: It might be, I don't know. I haven't really looked into a general "best time to multiclass". If you wait too long, say to level 7, and then take 1 level in another class, the player tends to be underwhelmed with the new abilities after getting used to 7 levels of being cool. Depends on the person I guess.
That reminds me, how do the saves and base attacks add up anyway? I'd guess you go with the higher save? And do the base attacks just add up to 5 then spill over to the +6/+1?
And a random question regarding spells. There are some who's target is personal only, and a lot that you have to touch a creature to use. Can a touch spell like Shield of Faith be targeted on yourself?
And since you mentioned it, does magic alway hit then get resisted, or does a fireball or whatever have to first beat AC then resist?
Area-of-effect spells, like Fireball, and mind-affecting spells, like Charm Person, do not need to beat your AC, just roll a saving throw. There are some spells that say in the description to make a “melee touch attack” or a “ranged touch attack”, and those spells can be resisted by your AC.
Generally speaking, offensive spells give you one chance to resist them (either through saving throws or AC). Some spells deal damage no matter what, and the saving throw reduces that damage. Other spells might require more than one save, to avoid a secondary effect.
And yes. If you can touch yourself, then you can cast a touch-ranged spell on yourself.
I’ll elaborate more on the leveling up/multiclassing details when I have more time.
Looking for some clarification on Beorae's Faerie Fire spell. If she were to cast FF at square L9, would only L9 be affected, or does "within a 5-ft.-radius burst" mean that squares immediately adjacent to L9 (K8,K9,K10,L8,L9,L10,M8,M9,M10) would also be affected?
This druid has PLANS!
In a "5 foot radiius burst", pick the intersecting lines of four squares as the origin point for the spell. In this way, the 10ft diameter (or 5 ft radius) illuminates 4 squares.
I just finished a long campaign a few months ago, where I played a druid. Two years ago I started as level 1, and even at level 18 at game's end, I STILL prepared Faerie Fire, if I had the free spell slot. Such a handy spell.
Also, I derped on the coordinates of hiding bad guys for Beorae's really high Perception. Beorae thinks she hears footfalls and controlled, slow breathing around L10, M10, M11, and M12, but it can't be more than two people in that area.
EDIT: Themp, in answer to your question awhile back:
Those with normal vision in dim lighting (also called Low Light) take a 20% miss chance on attacks. This means that whenever you roll to hit a foe, roll a 1d100. If the result is 21 or higher, your attack has a chance at connecting (your attack roll proceeds as normal).
However, the typical campfire sheds light 20ft from the square it occupies. In that 45ft wide circle, Themp can see normally.
Also, "impostor" ≠ "interloper". Brain fart on my part.
All right then, I have a question about Detect Evil... that I would like answered after this encounter is over. (So that the answer doesn't disrupt or affect what's going on right now)
Nme'an detected no evil but the sneaky men were intending violence? Non-evil violence? Detect Evil was supposed to "identify anyone who is evil, from puppy-kicking minions to genocidal masterminds, as long as they don't have spells or special abilities to block it."
Were they out of range? Were they blocking it? Or is EVIL not the same thing as bad intentions or whatever?
Good question, Nme'an. This might lead me to unpack a whole alignment discussion (which I don't mind at all). Don't let me forget, because there's a solid chance I will.
For a short answer, Detect Evil will tell you if someone has "Evil" in their alignment.
Do members of the Order of the Dawnflower have legal / law enforcement powers? Something vaguely akin to a police officer's ability to arrest someone? It's far more than just a mercenary group, it is integrated into the kingdom and it's law enforcement processes and all that, correct?
Nether, would you mind explaining how Themp's Stealth roll failed? Was it by previous sighting, Perception check or simply storytelling purposes?
(I don't mind either way, by the way, just so I get prepared next time. :) )
@ZackDark: You were spotted before you rolled your Stealth check. "I know you're hiding," a pseudo-bluff, an attempt to get Themp to shake in his boots. Even if Arthur Turel didn't know exactly where you were, he knew you were at this camp.
I'm not sure what was clear and what wasn't, so I'll explain this: When I post a spoiler labeled "[skill] check DC [value]", such as "Perception check DC 19" or "Knowledge (dungeoneering) check DC 12", you must roll that skill and meet that DC before reading the spoiler (and include the roll with your post). Does that make sense?
@Nme'an: Yes, Nme'an has the authority to arrest someone. Though it should be said that some in the Order act on their authority to pass judgement and carry out the sentence immediately if the crime is monstrous and guilty are unrepentant.
Also, way to go on that Diplomacy roll.
@Beorae: Casting a spell with a Verbal component requires the caster to call out her incantations in a strong voice. I know it didn't really affect this encounter, but it's good for you to know now. If you are interested in silently casting spells, look at the Silent Spell metamagic feat.
Got it, thanks.
Next time you do the 'DC' thing, will we have to roll afterwards or before your post to be able to read it?
I'll post the spoiler with the DC, and then you can post a roll to try to beat it. A rare circumstance might come up that I will count a previous roll as your attempt (in which case I will tell you what you know). But, in all other cases, roll after I post the DC.
So we shouldn't've read that one, I guess. Oops. :p