The Once & Future KingMaker

Game Master Aest

Under the ultimate campaign rules the Econ failure was removed so the kingdoms makes something every month. The Stability and Loyality still have to pass the kingdoms Control DC, but they usually result in unrest. Also the old magic economy was nixed.

Hero lab Kingdom builder is under the unlimited campaign content.

The kingdom's control DC goes up for every hex claimed so make sure you increase the Stability and Loyalty to cover the increase DC, or slow the hex growth.

Month 1: raise taxes, build library, claim F8

Month 2: build shop, claim E9, road E9

Month 3: build tradeshop, claim D10, road D10

We may want to look at driving the kingdom up towards Oleg's with a thought building a settlement there. Connect with a road. The plains up there makes for good farmland to support a larger kingdom. The road from Greenhart to Olegstun(?) gives access to the South Ostland road as well.

That was my general plan. I figured to pick up the mine along the way as well.

To help me remember
* Control lands between Stag Fort to Oleg's
* Build Road from Stag Fort to Oleg's
* Develop Gold Mine and Moon Radish Patch
* Build Shrine in Stag Fort

GM Glyn: In hero lab I can't find where to input the information for Events. Can you help me with that?

For kingdoms building you can only claim hexes that have been cleared. I am treating the Mites' and Kobolds' land as uncleared.

Historically, Kingdoms get joined through conquest or marriage.

So mechanically we'd have to claim, clear, and build? Roleplay may require us to "complete a diplomatic quest" before we are able to do so?

Note: I'm going to add these to my notes because I feel like I've asked you this before.

Yea, some sort of diplomatic quest would be required.

Under the ultimate campaign rules the Econ failure was removed so the kingdoms makes something every month. The Stability and Loyality still have to pass the kingdoms Control DC, but they usually result in unrest. Also the old magic economy was nixed.

Hero lab Kingdom builder is under the unlimited campaign content.

The kingdom's control DC goes up for every hex claimed so make sure you increase the Stability and Loyalty to cover the increase DC, or slow the hex growth.

I'm going to have to re-read that part about the Econ roll, I don't remember that!

Keep in mind, when I ran that Kingmaker, UC wasn't out yet. That being said, I would still have let the players do it they a good system. You wouldn't need a manufactured magic generator to do it. Players (or cohorts) that create product to sell is all you need. Whether it's fruit or +1 spears.

Ok, I think I see it, but I'm not sure I agree they took it out:

Control DC: Some kingdom actions require a check (1d20 + modifiers) to succeed—this is known as a control check. The base DC for a control check is equal to 20 + the kingdom’s Size in hexes + the total number of districts in all your settlements + any other modifiers from special circumstances or effects. Unless otherwise stated, the DC of a kingdom check is the Control DC. p.199

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Many kingdom actions and events require you to attempt a kingdom check, either using your Economy, Loyalty, or Stability attribute (1d20 + the appropriate attribute + other modifiers). You cannot take 10 or take 20 on a kingdom check. Kingdom checks automatically fail on a natural 1 and automatically succeed on a natural 20. p.199

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Step 4—Collect Taxes: Attempt an Economy check, divide the result by 3 (round down), and add a number of BP to your Treasury equal to the result. p.207

All that being said, I'm totally for your interpretation? :)

My Interpretation is that the econ roll just varies the build points income, that the Econ check vs kingdom DC was removed because it was too random. It didn't make much sense that the kingdom could make lots of BP one month and zero the next just because of a poor roll or even a Nat 1. Real hurts advanced kingdoms.

Step 4—Collect Taxes: Attempt an Economy check, divide the result by 3 (round down), and add a number of BP to your Treasury equal to the result.

vs.

Step 4—Generate Income: Make an Economy check
against your Command DC at the end of your Income
phase. If you’re successful, divide your result by 5
(dropping any fractions) and increase your Treasury’s BP
by that amount.

Back, life got horribly hectic.

Apologies.

Current Kingdom Control DC24, Econ 13, Loyalty 15, Stability 16

Suggestions heard so far:

Adjustment to Kingdom Postions:
Justinian get’s appointed Royal Enforcer. (total adj -2 Loyalty)
Kressel get moved to Spymaster (total adj +1 Stability)
Imiria get’s the boot.

New Econ 13, Loyalty 13, Stability 17

Raise Taxes
From None To Normal Tax- (total adj: +2 Economy, -3 Loyalty)

New Econ 15, Loyalty 10, Stability 17

(Oops, Looking at the map I think the lands surrounding the Stag Fort are hills not plains. The lighter colored hex around Olegs are plains. Any cost already spent on claimed hex, farms and roads will be left as is. New hex’s claimed, farms, and roads will use the hill cost. )

Monthly Builds
Month 1: build library (- 6 bp, +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty), claim F8 (-2bp, +1DC)
Month 2: build shop (- 8 bp, +1 Economy ), claim E9 (already have E9), road E9 (-3bp)
Month 3: build tradeshop (- 10 bp, +1 Economy, +1 Stability), claim D10(-2bp, +1DC), road D10 (-3bp)

Estimated: Kingdom Control DC26, Econ 18, Loyalty 11, Stability 18

Also recall that I am allowing the PCs to work an additional two weeks to attempt an aid to kingdom rolls over the one week required by the kingdom. (apparently kingdom roles are part time jobs.) (see Campaign tab, also copied below)

Aid Leadership Rolls:
PCs that spend an extra 2 weeks working for the kingdom beyond the 1 week required may make a Aid Another skill check at DC10 for a +2 to one of the kingdom rolls for the following list.
Stability: Diplomacy, K(nobility), K(religion), Profession (soldier), Sense Motives.
Loyalty: Intimidate, K(engineering), K(local), K(nobility), Sense Motives.
Economy: K(arcana), K(geography), K(nobility), Profession (merchant), Survival, Sense Motives.

Err... those are not are prior builds. Do you mean this month and the next two months?

*Comforts Imiria... Plus is happy to have second pair of hands around the farm... * (^_^)

Stability/Diplomacy:1d20 + 6 ⇒ (5) + 6 = 11

Sunset spends her time talking 'shop' with the other, local farm workers/owners/etc.

'Extra' Stability/Diplomacy:1d20 + 6 ⇒ (3) + 6 = 9

Yay, dice roller. :P

yes, that would be month 4,5 & 6

It's looking good to me, definitely need to get our eco up. Since I don't have any NPC's pressing for upgrades (that we know of) Seraph has nothing to dissent or present.

Though I am assuming the Dance Hall replaced the Brothel? Since Brothel doesn't appear in the Kingdom Building of PFSRD haha.

Monthly Builds

Month 1: build library (- 6 bp, +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty), claim F8 (-2bp, +1DC)
Month 2: build shop (- 8 bp, +1 Economy ), claim E9 (already have E9), road E9 (-3bp)
Month 3: build tradeshop (- 10 bp, +1 Economy, +1 Stability), claim D10(-2bp, +1DC), road D10 (-3bp)

Estimated: Kingdom Control DC26, Econ 18, Loyalty 11, Stability 18

Are we skipping three months for kingdom building?

Due to the discrepancy over who owns the fangberries, I'm willing to skip hex F8 for now. I am more interested in getting that road to Oleg's Tradefort and getting the gold mine up and running.

That hit to Loyalty from taxes is a little steeper than I realized. I now suggest Light Tax rather than Normal Tax.

Can Torod Take 10 on the aid roll? Otherwise aid Loyalty Sense Motive: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21

One question before we boot Imiria: Does Justinian actually want the job of Spymaster?

To be honest, my skillset is better related to Grand Diplomat rather than Enforcer, but I'll take whatever you guys want.

Where does the -2 Loyalty hit come from? My Str/Dex would be a +1 or a +1.

Assist rolls:
Diplomacy: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (16) + 11 = 27
Kn Nobility: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (4) + 4 = 8
Sense Motive: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (9) + 7 = 16

Do we have Grand Diplomat still available?

Looks like Mikmek is the GD.

No, he's grand ambassador to the Sootscales.
There's a difference; I didn't want him to force him to have divided loyalties.

The -2 Loyalty hit comes from moving Kressel who has a +3 for Doran who has a +1. Yes Doran would make a better Grand Diplomat than Milmek (+3 vs +1 stability).

3 months of kingdoms building would put you into early spring. Better weather for exploring.

The hit to Loyality for the tax comes from the current rate of none which gives a +1 Loyality. Light tax would be +1 Econ -2 Loy adjustment total.

@GM Glyn: got it, thanks.

@Asta: was just reading off the sheet. 'Grand Diplomat Mikmek'

Yeah, that's why I didn't suggest Justinian for that post. As much as I don't like Imiria being the spymaster in game, out of game I have no issue with it.

I'm moving the appointing Doran to a kingdom position to the game thread for role playing.

We can still plan the next kingdom building here.

sorry, I've been busy. One of my computers was taken out by a nearby lighting strike, so I've been diagnosing what's working and what's not.

So, I worked the Diplomacy skill to gather info, and that is what I got. Frankly, I wasn't surprised. But it would be remiss of me a council member to not speak up about what I found. So I did.

You did well! Thanks for the good job. :) Better we know these things, so we can adjust for them. Please keep up the good work!

Back online, posting soon.

Yay! ^_^

GM Glyn, can I take 20 (Diplomacy) on the crafting of the letter to the Swordlords of Restov? The theory being Justinian staying up late, surrounded by wadded up papers on the floor and a full trash can as he scratches out and rewrites until he gets it right.

Nay on the take 20 Diplomacy, for the reason that your only sending one letter. So only one shot to influence. You can take 10 and get help (aid).

.... (Oops, Looking at the map I think the lands surrounding the Stag Fort are hills not plains. The lighter colored hex around Olegs are plains. Any cost already spent on claimed hex, farms and roads will be left as is. New hex’s claimed, farms, and roads will use the hill cost.)...

So you re-did the the entries in herolab to hills then adjusted costs or added BP to balance it out?

Or are you just putting in custom costs for everything in those hexes now?

haven't modified herolab yet.

The hill hex D10 with a gold mine is claimed (-3bp, +1 consumption, +1 control DC).

A road is built in hex F10 using the River Crossing as a bridge (-3BP, +1/4 econ, +1/8 stability)
The first GreenHart Library is opened allowing the people to be more productive and loyal (-6bp, +1 Econ, +1Loy)

When I input the information in my Hero Lab, the hill hex (D10) only cost 1bp to claim. You show it costing 3bp in your post above and 2bp on the kingdom status spreadsheet.

yep,
For hills it should be 1bp to claim, 2bp to prepare for a district, 3bp to build a road, 4bp to build a farm. (I must have been looking at the wrong column.) Need to stop using Mite work crews, they have very creative accounting, cost overruns ....

I'll make adjustments

Since we have already built roads in Stag Fort / Greenhart, did that include the bridges or do we need to pay double?

It would be useful because then we'd have two bridges near our capital and make it easy to cross into the other territories.

The reason I ask is...

Bridge*

A Bridge allows your Road hexes to cross rivers.

Cost: When you build a Road in a hex that contains a river, the doubled coast of the Road includes the cost of bridges needed to cross the river. You don’t need to build a Bridge as a separate unit; it’s listed here for reference only.

Yes it does. Since the hex has a river in it, the cost to build roads must include the increase for bridges.

K, So are we taking the ship somewhere else? Or is it just for ease of travel/transport? I am misunderstanding why we needed the keelboat. haha.

Thanks for the response Dax. :3

I'm thinkin' t'is ta' be makin' tha' gettin' around a tad easier, like.

We're more usin' it more like just a mobile bridge, like. :P

Understood. :)

I figured the boat would be used as both a mobile bridge and a safe place to rest and recover. Not a bad idea given that most hexs are within one hex of a river. Speed is a little slower, the example I've read show about 10mi/day up river and 30mi/day down river.

Just got to remember to bring paddles.....

Or else we'll be up the creek without....

:P

It was just that we have two hexes we weren't able to finish exploring and I thought to try using a boat rather than taking the time to build a raft each time we come across a river we can't cross. I really just wanted to test it out. See how it would work for us as compared to what we've been doing.

If it works, great. We can commission our first 'naval vessel'. We can call it the Enterprise or something equally ferocious. If it doesn't work, great. We can saddle up and keep doing like we have been.

:D This is an awesome idea.
And it opens up a new industry, too. ;)

I'm sorry Asta didn't get to respond to Torod's impassioned speech.

It's a shame, but all turned out well. :)

I do th8nk your id3a is awesomeness Dax. (^_^)

GM Glyn: I noticed that for the bonus buildings at Oleg's Trade Fort -we need a name for that town. The cannon name is Olegton- rather than adding a Fort as a terrain improvement, you added the Barracks and Stables directly. If you add the Fort instead, both the Barracks and Stable automatically populate when the hex is enhanced to a settlement. I say this because it can effect some of our numbers.

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Council: Due to the Castle in Greenheart, the Noble Villa costs half as much. The Noble Villa then allows us to purchase both the Luxury Store and the Exotic Artisan for half each. These purchases would give us +3 Economy, +1 Loyal, +2 Stablility, +2000 Base Value to our markets, and finally allow us to start filling our magic item slots with minor wands, rings, and wondrous items.

Noble Villa cost 24 bp halved to 12 bp.
Exotic Artisan cost 10 bp halved to 5 bp.
Luxury Store cost 28 bp halved to 14 bp; note that this does not stack with upgrading from shop.

So the 12 bp spent on the Noble Villa would save us at least 19 bp in other buildings.

Just something to think about.

Where does it say you can't upgrade a building with the halved costs in effect? Just curious. :3

None the less I agree. That wouldn't be some bad upgrades. Just curious. As when you upgrade it becomes a new building which would count, iirc, for the Halve decrease.

I should have probably said that I don't think they stack. You can do so, it is Hero Lab after all, but, according to my understanding of Hero Lab, you don't get both the halving and the reduced cost. In truth, the cost comes out about the same either way. Maybe its just that Hero Lab is programmed to only figure the reduced cost of upgrading from the full price only and not the halved cost from building discounts.

Torod OH! Yeah, Herolab can be erroneous at times. Since it isn't a Paizo product, but they do do their best so small errors are easy enough to overlook haha.

Kingdom Building So we don't clog the main thread.

My suggestion for Calistril leaves 5 BP to add to next months Econ check.

So Either the Pier or Shrine (Which would leave BP over for the next build period) for the month of Pharast. Which would also aid in building up our BP for Bigger Name buildings perhaps.

With the Vineyard we can build a Brewery, wish the Brewery would aid ore econ but it helps other things.