The Masters of Golarion

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Well im glad someone caught the reference.

I did. I just haven't said anything regarding it. Planes hopping sounds like a lot of fun. I have only played a couple games here and there that roamed the planes.

EDIT: I am with aceDiamond. Has character creation been worked out yet? Will I have the chance to play a silver dragon?

Rizzen, Herald, did the two of you come to an agreement on how to build our characters, yet? I'm looking through the sorcerer bloodlines and I'm really seeing a lot of things that sound particularly fun.

I just pulled up some streaming episodes of Atlantis. Mmmmm.

If you're so bent on playing a silver dragon, you could take the draconic bloodline. Though I'm not sure how wise it is to have two sorcerers on the team. But then again, sorcerer is one of the most fun classes I've ever played.

If it comes down to it I have some alternate ideas on playing a dragon. The half-dragon template is available. I can use that for a variety of concepts that don't include sorcerer.

Player interest and possible concept:

Acediamond: Sorcerer

GMV: Silver Dragon of some sort, possibly Half-Dragon.

TCG: Any one of several hundred ideas.

Monkeygod: I'm thinking a Magus, would love to see how one plays at high level. My 5th lvl one is already lots of fun.

Gobo Horde: Trying to pull off a geomancer

Lord Manticore: Magus/Rogue or ninja, not Batman...

There is the Dragon Disciple prestige class if you want to go that route, as well. Just that it seems a tad odd to give templates to PCs if you ask me.

So I'm thinking of having a general blaster/crafter build. I'm also considering a few bloodlines, but it's hard to make a decision. Maybe one of you guys could give me your two cents?

Starsoul/Void-Touched - This bloodline seems particularly fun, but I'm not entirely sure. Especially if everyone else wants to sleep at night and some of the interesting powers wouldn't be viable. Still, it's a good runner up choice.

Imperious - Probably seems like the most fun at the moment. I like the idea of playing a character who's not really paying attention to the task at hand in favor of some story or random flash of inspiration. But if the campaign leans towards finding immortality, this bloodline seems like I'd be cheating a bit. If it works out, though, I feel like this is one of my top running choices.

Stormborn - I played a sorcerer with this bloodline recently and had loads of fun. But I figure I could also branch out, so let's put this in the maybe pile.

Djinni - The bonus spells and capstone are what pull me in here. Lightning spells are really fun and granting little wishes makes me feel good. Plus, the character can speak with a heavy Robin Williams impression if you choose to read it that way.

Draconic - Dragons are cool, you guys.

Arcane/Sage - They say that this is one of the most overdone bloodlines, but I've yet to actually play either of these. Figured it could be fun for a change of pace.

Aberrant - Definitely some cool powers here. Plus, I would like to try and play a character who's covered up head to toe in tunics, robes, and masks, so this would be a cool chance to break that out. I think this is tied with Starsoul in how much I want to play it. Maybe a tad more, even.

So let me know what you guys think, because I'm too spoilt for choice to come up with a decision.

I'd really like more input from the prospective DMs on what they want to do for the game before discussing builds. Especially considering that the game premise may have a significant impact on the builds.

I would also suggest that since this is a high level game, we agree on a state of cooperative cross-verification. The DM's will have enough running this type of game as it is. I do like the idea of two DM's, and might I suggest that one of them plays some of the NPC's while the other runs the module.

Once we get to character building and design, I would appreciate and welcome input on verifying that I have everything legit. I know that things can slip through, or a combination may be more exploitative than expected and would further suggest that players not get too stuck on a single make/break concept but that they be flexible enough to have more than one operational concept.

My votes are for:

No 3rd party material (so no psionics either)
Races may be common, uncommon, monster, templated, but not custom built.
Classes open, capped at 20.
25 pt buy.
Everyone must have a shared alignment, probably good though lawful would be interesting.
Leadership Feat restricted to background stuff, may bring cohort along.
Inherent bonuses from tomes or wishes are part and parcel, if a player wants to spend $125k for a +3 to a stat, why not?

Yeah, I'm wondering where the prospective DMs went, too. But it is the weekend and some people do have lives, so I guess I can't blame them. But, Validk, why, why, why cap the classes? There are rules for continuing them, why would you want us to have to dip into prestige classes? If you want to prestige that's fine, but I just can't understand the push into forcing the dip.

But look at me, here I am complaining that I don't want to learn the new rules set for a prestige class.

And if I might vote, I'd say we just all should be good aligned. Lawful, neutral, chaotic, that much should be free to choice.

I'd really like more input from the prospective DMs on what they want to do for the game before discussing builds. Especially considering that the game premise may have a significant impact on the builds.

I would also suggest that since this is a high level game, we agree on a state of cooperative cross-verification. The DM's will have enough running this type of game as it is. I do like the idea of two DM's, and might I suggest that one of them plays some of the NPC's while the other runs the module.

Once we get to character building and design, I would appreciate and welcome input on verifying that I have everything legit. I know that things can slip through, or a combination may be more exploitative than expected and would further suggest that players not get too stuck on a single make/break concept but that they be flexible enough to have more than one operational concept.

My votes are for:

No 3rd party material (so no psionics either)
Races may be common, uncommon, monster, templated, but not custom built.
Classes open, capped at 20.
25 pt buy.
Everyone must have a shared alignment, probably good though lawful would be interesting.
Leadership Feat restricted to background stuff, may bring cohort along.
Inherent bonuses from tomes or wishes are part and parcel, if a player wants to spend $125k for a +3 to a stat, why not?

I still prefer level 25 but I would be willing to compromise with level 20 to get the game off the ground.

I am still looking at a full silver dragon as a character. If that turns out to not be allowed I will look at the half-dragon template and see what appeals to me.

Failing these options, I will break out my druid I made for the last high level game I played and will make adjustments to play her.

Yeah, I'm wondering where the prospective DMs went, too. But it is the weekend and some people do have lives, so I guess I can't blame them. But, Validk, why, why, why cap the classes? There are rules for continuing them, why would you want us to have to dip into prestige classes? If you want to prestige that's fine, but I just can't understand the push into forcing the dip.

But look at me, here I am complaining that I don't want to learn the new rules set for a prestige class.

And if I might vote, I'd say we just all should be good aligned. Lawful, neutral, chaotic, that much should be free to choice.

If I may, it seems that you feel that capping classes 20 forces you into a prestige class. There are other base classes to take without doing this. You actually have more options than at first glance.

Everyone must have a shared alignment, probably good though lawful would be interesting.

My vote for common alignment is the good half. That gives the most combinations while still maintaining something that promotes party cohesion. Players would be free to choose the other half with what best fits their character.

I get what you're saying, but I'd rather end up getting more sorcerer spells. And the only way to do that in the method you're proposing is to take a prestige class. I just don't see the point if there are rules for continuing a base class past 20.

But let's just hear what the GMs think before passing judgement.

Just wanted to poke my head in and say i've been watching the game's progress. I'd be curious to see what type of game this turns into, and I may be interested in joining (my gaming bandwidth permitting). I've never gotten to play epic before... seems like a blast.

I'm most curious to see what Herald and/or Rizzen come up with for rules and game theme.

oh, yeah, starting at 25 was in there too.

I just got back from a weekend wedding so I'm rather dead on my feet. I'll get in touch with Rizzenmagus when I feel human again. Feel free to keep posting ideas and wants.

If we happen to just have Leadership for fluff and story, would anybody be against my character owning a magic item shop and his followers crafting the items he sells?

Personally that's a no problem from me. At this level though I'm just worried about what choices can cause runaway power advantage so I'll leave this one to the group.

Don't take me wrong here, I'm not lecturing, call it debating, or taking devil's advocate.

Personally, at this level, I'd expect the characters to be community leaders already. Kinda hard for Superman to live as a hermit.

Keep in mind that dnd/pathfinder builds rules under the premise that characters will be adventuring for their income, not crafting.

Now I've always considered that your followers still need to make a living (unless they're all undead).

Why would your devoted spell casting minions continue to work for you if you are feeding them peanuts and taking the profits of their work?

Even assuming you only took 10%, A level 1 caster could produce a wand a day. Material cost 375 gold. Profit 375 gold, you take 10%, 37.5 gold. At 25th level, a score of 25 is a given. With 135 1st level wizards crafting wands, you would generate over 5000 gold a day in your share of the profits.

I can see this very quickly doing one of two things, completely destroying the world economy, or putting your character in a position of such wealth that a need to go adventuring would require a significant draw.

So how would you (the player) self regulate to not break the game?

I was just thinking of having the shop as flavor text. If I could use the followers to help craft things via the Cooperative Crafting feat, that'd be cool, but besides that little thing, I just like the idea of a character of that level owning a shop. Or a magical Wal*Mart. But not like I'd be asking for skims of profit for in game purposes.

Would that be okay with you guys?

I was just thinking of having the shop as flavor text. If I could use the followers to help craft things via the Cooperative Crafting feat, that'd be cool, but besides that little thing, I just like the idea of a character of that level owning a shop. Or a magical Wal*Mart. But not like I'd be asking for skims of profit for in game purposes.

Would that be okay with you guys?

That's fine by me.

For my concept I am looking at a silver dragon who has close ties to a magistrate/king/lord. Possibly a vizier.

If the level is 20 I will probably do adult or mature adult. If the level is 25 I will probably add class levels if it works out good. I may even just do a straight dragon around ancient age but that is dependent on what the party is made up of.

No worries on my part, I plan on being a minor head of state or church, but won't be collecting a salary. I will expect my every whim taken care of when I am in residence, but that's all fluff, don't expect to see or use the followers for anything not on my character sheet.

I do like using them as the background for why I have knowledge local so high (spies), or lots of crafting skills (merchant guilds), etc.

I know we mostly agreed on no third party or homebrew classes, but I'd like one exception for my cohort.

I'd like my cohort to be a level 17 Accountant.

What about using 3rd party material designed for Paizo classes??

As long as the material is readily accessible on d20pfsrd and I can check it first, I'm fine with most things.

Are we allowing psionics?

Herald, has a level been chosen yet?

I've never played with psionics, so I don't know. Your call, guys.

I think 25th is a fine level.

Alright, I'll start building it soon, then. Does anyone have any input for the sorcerer bloodline? I think I've narrowed it down between Imperious, Sage, and Aberrant. This choice is so tough.

Of course, now that I'm thinking about it, what would we allow in such a high-level campaign. Core books only (i.e. CRB, UM, UC, APG?, MA when it comes out in August?), what's accessible on the Pathfinder SRD site (i.e. the new Tinker class from Interjection Games, the Godlings from Super Genius), or include any third-party source, period. I think we would have to give some serious thoughts about that, before creating characters.

In a high level game, because of the power levels involved, the GM should only allow material that he or she is intimately familiar with. She should however not need to restrict herself to what she makes available to the players.

Don't take me wrong here, I'm not lecturing, call it debating, or taking devil's advocate.

Personally, at this level, I'd expect the characters to be community leaders already. Kinda hard for Superman to live as a hermit.

Actually for a monk on retreat or a druid tending a forest, being a hermit is a very logical role. Or for that matter a wizard not born of us who might have spent the last five years searching for the remains of his lost plane. (Worked for a movie plot:)

Anyone may have gone on retreat, especially if they had a lot of bad memories to live with.

Is this still open. I am currently in the same level 20 campaign as gobo as a gnome oracle.
I would probably play a summoner or maybe a fighter.

I've never played with psionics, so I don't know. Your call, guys.

If you haven't played with psionics, you really shouldn't be allowing it at this level. Running a high level campaign is hard enough without having to deal with a bookload of strange mechanics.

I think 25th is a fine level.

I will make two versions of a silver dragon. One at adult age with class levels and one at ancient age. I will put the two up for everyone to compare. I will make changes based off the feedback I receive.

Is this still open. I am currently in the same level 20 campaign as gobo as a gnome oracle.

I would probably play a summoner or maybe a fighter.

This is still in the creation stages. You are welcome to make something.

I know we mostly agreed on no third party or homebrew classes, but I'd like one exception for my cohort.

I'd like my cohort to be a level 17 Accountant.

LOL in my RL games, any NPC that I run is automatically the gawd of accountants (in disguise, of course). It's a running gag as my career is accounting.

Did we ever get the GMs' definitive word on if taking a single class past 20 is allowed? And what the point buy is?

And LM, please help me build my accountant cohort. I want to be able to hide funds in the Cayman Islands at a +2 caster level.

I dont know if just missed them or if they haven't been decided yet but what are the building rules?

As one of those who helped playtest and design the psionic rules for Dreamscarred Press, I can personally attest to their value, balance, and compatibility. Its a very well made system, to be sure.

Then that sounds legit. And I'm pretty sure we haven't had a definitive posting on the build as of yet. Or if Wish is A-Ok.

So at the moment, I'm still thinking of bloodlines, but I feel that I should name my character Jacob.

So, can we get a final calling on everything, as far as creating characters are concerned? I know most of it has been hashed out, but I think it would be a good idea to put it into text, so there's no confusion.

I vote yes for psionics then. I've seen monkeygod's posts enough to know he's legit. *gives soul searching stare*

For the build we had only 25th level so far.

I do vote for:

- can build past 20th level (don't need to multi class or take PrC)
- No other 3PP material (will make things easier finally)

On the fence:

- Wish spells limitation.

Current Campaign is still to be decided upon.

I do vote for:

- can build past 20th level (don't need to multi class or take PrC)

Bless you

EDIT: Should we use the rules on this page to determine spellcasting and spells known and whatnot?

I vote yes for psionics then. I've seen monkeygod's posts enough to know he's legit. *gives soul searching stare*

For the build we had only 25th level so far.

I do vote for:

- can build past 20th level (don't need to multi class or take PrC)
- No other 3PP material (will make things easier finally)

On the fence:

- Wish spells limitation.

Current Campaign is still to be decided upon.

I concur.

Herald of Omens wrote:

I do vote for:

- can build past 20th level (don't need to multi class or take PrC)

Bless you

EDIT: Should we use the rules on this page to determine spellcasting and spells known and whatnot?

I would say yes. It's the only official epic level advancement.

My last question is how many points do we have to buy with?

Secondarily, there was the discussion on stat Tomes. I tend to agree with teh notion that their inclusion cheapens a person's initial stat buy, nto to mention making class abilities that grant stat boosts less meaningful.

So my vote would be to disallow these (given how much money we can throw around for gear).

Secondarily, i know it was mentioned, but I can't find the post, but what's the wealth we're outfitting with?

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Also, the concept. I'm struggling to get all the details ironed out, but I wanted to toss something to the group and DM to see if people are okay with it.... it's a bit of an exception to the normal rules of playing.

The idea that we're searching for immortality got me thinking of this. In a strange twist, this guy adventures with this group not because he wants to live forever, but because he needs an equally-powerful form of magic to repay the life-debt he owes his buddy.

I'd have them share equipment, so you'll see items useable for both of them. Their level-dependant stat bumps will be the same for both guys (except for 1, which will be unique to each). The bard would have vague memories of what happened while the barbarian was the active personality, while the barbarian (because of his consciousness being split out into the mephit while the bard is active) would have a 3rd persons perspective of events while the bard is dominant.

I'd love for the switch back and forth to be out of my hands, with specific mechanical triggers (whiel also allowign the DM to also be able to basically DM fiat in a switch when he wants to). I'm thinking it's different triggers for the dormant personality to have a chance at "emerging"... whch I would suggest is either a 1d2 roll or a percentile roll. Like I said, I'm still noodling through all that.

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Iv'e wanted to play some version of this guy for a long time. This epic level game seems like the perfect opportunity to me, but I want to really make sure my fellow players and the DM are all good with an idea like this.

I'd loveto hear everyone's thoughts.

The idea of a bardbarian has interested me for a while now, but the two separate character sheets is a bit strange, if you ask me. I've not really come across something like that before.

Though if you are looking for a legitimate reason to play a character with a split personality without such unorthodox mechanics, I'd recommend the Alchemist prestige class of Master Chymist. But this is just a suggestion as to be a bit easier to work with.

The only other thing I'm curious about is if someone could end up taking Eldritch Heritage twice. From what I thought, the only way to get a second bloodline would be to take the Crossblooded sorcerer archetype. I could be mistaken, though.

Besides those things, it certainly seems like an interesting concept you've got there.

I realize a similar concept could work with a few multi-class or specific archetype choices, but I've been wanting to try it in a way that's literally 2 separate builds in one body.

I'm okay with the paper-work required, if people are okay with the two character sheets. If people don't like it, or it's too far-fetched, I understand. Like I said, it's just something I've wanted to try for a very long time, and this type of super-epic game seems to be the best way to try it.

And either one of the character sheets wouldn't take Eldritch Heritage twice... each one would take it once, simply with different bloodlines chosen. :)

I'll wait to hear from more people.

One of my biggest concerns, actually, is what happens if the switch gets flipped in a situation where the barbarian (who would have way more HP - especially when raging) is really, really low on HP? It would seem that I'm looking at insta-death in that situation for the bard.

I just had another question that came to mind. How would starting wealth work if a race was taken with no class levels? The ancient silver dragon would be equivalent to a 25th level character. Do we get wealth based on CR or something else?

According to Hero Lab an adult silver dragon is equivalent to a 17th level character and an ancient silver dragon is equivalent to a 25th level character.