Um, not sure where everyone went. I know we already spoke a little Trevor & Grenwold, but without trying to steer y'all in any particular direction I like the idea of having a Bard and a mounted melee ally! I've never actually seen a Startoss build in action and would be curious about it. And of course a Chernasado ranger would slot in perfectly with us--we haven't don't a militia update in a while, we might be able to flavor adding a unit to the Hemlock Company with NPCs Grenwold brought to reinforce Longshadow?
In the interest of not dominating the conversation though, I'll defer to any more questions Daria and Lily might have.
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Thanks for the response, Thorek! Reading back your post on party wants I can probably build the bard to have decent backup healing as well as doing the throwing weapon thing. I have to make some decisions between being more survivable and more flashy since (after some research) the startoss style feats are extremely feat intensive for what they do and honestly might not really be worth it. On the other hand of the spectrum, the other half of the throwing weapon build, Desna's shooting star, is extremely efficient for what it does and only really required two feats to be a good switch hitter and potentially a serious threat at low to medium range by throwing the star. I am leaning towards just picking those two and filling the rest of the build with support feats. Between him and Litejedi's hunter and pet the group should have a good frontline.
Before fully statting the build I'd like to ask about the character creation rules. It seems like we're using 20 point stat buy along with no Elephant in the room feat tax removal. Is that correct? Also, I assume we join at level 11 with normal wealth by level gear? For bard specifically, are the Master Performer and Grandmaster performer feats allowed, at a cost or not?
Daria used to be a more Wildshape/combat druid (as Undari) until he got killed doing it. Nowadays she is more support/healing/spellcasting. Built as a healer, but having a second healer-capable type in the party would be great!
I'm liking what Im hearing. Lily's basic build is to help support the other players through illusions, lying, and trickery and I think that would compliment everyone's ideas. It would also be nice too to have a spell caster whose spells are on a list that isn't odd like the Mesmerist.
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so I'm going through the gameplay of the book for loot purposes, and I just want to say: in October 2021 we were talking about a wizard being worth their weight in gold, and Undari made a "Midas well" joke and I missed it at the time.
Your joke was not in vain! I'm almost three years late, but I saw it and giggled this time!
I’ll be able to give a complete character when I’m back from vacation next Monday, July 8th. Are there any specific or particular needs people want in terms of spells or equipment beyond trapfinding?
I have gone through all the gameplay & discussion posts for Book 3, and listed out all of the loot and which encounter it was from--all listed under the Hollow Hills and Town Invasion tabs in the New Party Loot excel sheet.
However, I have not gotten exact gp figures of all the various items and I would very much appreciate an assist in getting that done if y'all can spare the time.
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Aaron is ready to go!
This is the base build I ended up with. If there are any wishes, feedback or critiques I'd gladly hear them. The current concept goes very hard on condition removal, and while it does tie into his backstory, perhaps it does so a bit too hard. He could I.E. ditch the Break Enchantment or Breath of Life scroll for a Wand of Heightenend Awareness which would probably be better in most situations - until s!&! hits the fan and we wish we had those emergency buttons, admittedly :')
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I've updated my alias to the best of my ability. Aaron graciously offered to do trapfinding duty. I'm still willing if it's requested, just requires swapping a few things out.
Do you guys want to make your own gameplay posts introducing yourselves to the party? If you prefer, I can make a post setting up a situation where the party can meet your characters.
Well, my connection is to the pathfinders and through them, the dwarven king of the nearby sky citadel (who is also a pathfinder). It seems like they would encounter him on the way, though there has to be some reason for them to travel together. Does the king catch wind of their impetus to investigate the problem area and dispatch me there to assist them or such? Or it could also be an 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' type of situation. I'm open to id3as!
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For Aaron, it might even make more sense for us to meet him in the Valley itself? I think I recall you saying he (Aaron) was investigating the tunnels that link to Kraggodan's undercity on behalf of King Gorm Greathammer, so that could be how we meet up?
I don't want to cause an undue delay though, so if it'll be a while before we actually get to the Valley then that probably won't work.
I haven't made any progress on putting GP figures on the loot list :(
Daria has most of what she wants from the loot list, though the +2 ring of protection would be good if nobody else has a use for it. Once we get a per-character sum, I will see if there is anything else she wants that she can afford.
For Aaron, it might even make more sense for us to meet him in the Valley itself? I think I recall you saying he (Aaron) was investigating the tunnels that link to Kraggodan's undercity on behalf of King Gorm Greathammer, so that could be how we meet up?
This is how I originally envisioned it, yes. And that definitely works, making some assumptions that the King views the Molthune legion as a threat and wants the Valley explored due to unusual activity and potential risks to the citadel. That's probably enough for Aaron to have no quelms about actively joining a group of enemies to the Legion during this employment.
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(Assuming it helps you all/Thorak out a bit with the bookkeeping) I went ahead and added money values to the non-consumable, non-claimed items. As it stands, the total sell value of the unclaimed non-consumables (though it does add some expensive basic healing potions) is 84355 gold. That is 28118,33 gold each split among the three party members prior to our joining. It can go down a bit depending on how many unclaimed healing consumables you wish to keep.
This is assuming the tab called 'treasury new' was correct and up to date.
"Treasury New" was up to date, and you didn't have to do that Trevor! I appreciate it though, that's the Hollow Hills covered. I'll wrap up the Town Invasion tab tonight and we should be frosty--and ready to press on!
Ah, I see I overlooked that there was a second tab. My bad. And no worries, it wasn't much work.
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Do you guys want to make your own gameplay posts introducing yourselves to the party? If you prefer, I can make a post setting up a situation where the party can meet your characters.
I can do some background flavor posting to build out “what Grenwold’s been doing”. At that point, it might be good for you to decide how that transitions into meeting the group.
I have to move some stuff around too, I originally made him using 20-point point buy.
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Updated the alias to reflect the fixes, and things which got moved around. He should have some better utility spell-like abilities now.
That said, if anyone wants a different 1st level SLA instead of "alarm", please let me know.
You have achieved a great victory! Longshadow suffers few casualties and relatively little damage beyond its gates and defensive walls. The people cheer for you as the saviors of the town. Vendors can reopen their shops with days, and they permanently offer you a 10% discount on all goods and services they offer. Mayor Crawbert offers you a permanent home in Longshadow to use as a base of operations or to help relocate other survivors.
The merchants of Longshadow, the surviving priesthood of Abadar, and the mayor himself pool their resources to provide you with a reward of 12,000gp. Navah, the reclusive wizard whom you aided and recruited to the cause, collaborates with the smiths of Longshadow to craft a breastplate of command for you as one last reward for your heroism.
Ideas for Daria's items (with 10% discount):
-Upgrade Headband from +2 wisdom to +4 wisdom
-Upgrade Amulet of Mighty Fist +1 to add Bane versus Goblinoids
-Get Giant Eagle sized saddle crafted (optionally with Ant Haul enchanted into it)
It was brought to my attention that this is a 15 pt point buy adventure instead of a 20 pt buy one. This introduces a host of problems to Aaron's current build and I'm trying to decide what to leave out of it. One possible fix is to abandon dexterity alltogether and drop Deadly Aim. That greatly reduces his damage potential and can't really be fixed in the future. However, it is optimal for everything else except damage.
A second possible fix is dropping intelligence to 12 and wisdom to 10. That would mostly remove one of his non-knowledge skills, such as UMD, stealth or thievery. The most likely sacrifice to this is the UMD skill and his emergency scrolls of breath of life and break enchantment.
The other possible fix is to lower his charisma by 1 and wisdom by 2. That lowers his stats across the board but at level 12 he can buy most of it back with the stat increase there - until we get to 16 th level and then he had one stat increase leftover.
I find I'm having a bit of trouble deciding.
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Okay, re-edited Aaron for 15 pt buy. He's ready to go again! I eventually chose to drop the int and wis slightly and forego UMD as a skill. With the remaining gold I bought some more consumables.
@Gm I had two questions for shopping:
-Is it okay to buy half-charged wands for half price of a full wand or is that not possible/available?
-I wanted to buy a masterwork tool for stealth, but unsure what counts for that. I know of the Sleeves of Many garments, a 200 g item that allows you to alter your clothes to any mundane appearance at will. Since Aaron wears his clothes over his armor, this should allow him to use colour his clothes to the environment, whatever that is. Would you allow those to count as a masterwork stealth tool for +2 stealth?
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Minor Updates:
1) I realized that I had set the DC too low for the spike growth SLA, so I went back to it. I'm not sure how I feel about Alarm, I might go with entangle like I had originally. I know my PC intends to get an "Evergreen Seed Pouch" at some indeterminate point. I strongly have considered getting it now, but it's insanely expensive. If we're going underground, though, it might be the perfect time to get it - and hope I can get other upgrades later. Hoping for some opinions from the party.
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2) I realized the clawhand shield is basically pointless, so that's gone.
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3) I'm trying to decide which of Paired Opportunists or Broken Wing Gambit is best for now.
* Paired opportunists triggers based on crits.
* Broken Wing Gambit only works "once" per round and has a drawback, but is triggered on getting attacked.
With either of them, I intend to give out teamwork feats using "shared training" (outflank + one of the above). So other folks can take advantage. At level 14 I'd get the other feat.
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4) I don't really have a good sense of if if for my primary weapon I should take
a) A merciful weapon - would that be annoying? It seems in line with my PC's general attitude, and devotion to Shelyn, OR
b) A keen weapon - would that be annoying to the GM based on the above? It's "better" but it also might be frustrating.
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Some of the above are questions for the party, others are questions for the GM. Please let me know when you can.
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Okay, re-edited Aaron for 15 pt buy. He's ready to go again! I eventually chose to drop the int and wis slightly and forego UMD as a skill. With the remaining gold I bought some more consumables.
@Gm I had two questions for shopping:
-Is it okay to buy half-charged wands for half price of a full wand or is that not possible/available?
-I wanted to buy a masterwork tool for stealth, but unsure what counts for that. I know of the Sleeves of Many garments, a 200 g item that allows you to alter your clothes to any mundane appearance at will. Since Aaron wears his clothes over his armor, this should allow him to use colour his clothes to the environment, whatever that is. Would you allow those to count as a masterwork stealth tool for +2 stealth?
1) Yes, I will allow you to purchase half-charged wands for half-price - at least at this point in the game. I think it fits narratively that half-charged wands might be some of the spoils of war taken off of slain Ironfang officers and specialists that make their way onto the market in Longshadow, and as the heroes of Longshadow, it also makes sense that they would offer you a bargain on them.
2) I believe the classic item here is the Cloak of Elvenkind, which gives a +5 competence bonus to Stealth checks when worn with the hood drawn up.
For a bit more money, there's also the Subtle Slippers which provides +5 to Stealth, a pass without trace effect, and can even extend the Stealth bonus to up to 4 other creatures once per day.
Lastly, there's also the Cat Burglar's Boots which provides +2 to Acrobatics, Climb, and Stealth, and can even let you reroll one of those checks once per day.
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4) I don't really have a good sense of if if for my primary weapon I should take
a) A merciful weapon - would that be annoying? It seems in line with my PC's general attitude, and devotion to Shelyn, OR
b) A keen weapon - would that be annoying to the GM based on the above? It's "better" but it also might be frustrating.
I would not find a weapon with the merciful quality to be frustrating, although once or twice I may take the opportunity to have a previously surviving named opponent return in a later battle. I promise not to abuse this, though.
As for the keen weapon, I don't think that any potential conflict with your character's deity will need to be considered. As Nirmathas is currently being invaded/occupied by a force that Shelyn would probably condemn, she would conceivably allow one of her followers to make use a keen weapon to fight the good fight. After all, Shelyn's own glaive was taken from Zon-Kuthon, so she knows a thing or two about putting a dangerous weapon to use for a good cause.
Thanks for the answers, GM. I'll ponder a bit on Aaron's stealth as it is indeed a bit lacking, but funds are stretched pretty thin as they are. Additionally, I believe the cloak of elvenkind occupies the same item slot as the cloak of resistance which makes it borderline unusable/fairly suicidal to equip over that one.
That said, I'm pretty much ready to go whenever. Is the party currenty underway to the valley of Aloi? If so, does the backstory that Aaron was dispatched there by the Pathfinder King of Kraggadan to investigate legion activity work for you as an angle?
I believe the rest of us just need to finalize our level ups and gear if we haven't already done so, but then yes we'll head straight for the Valley of Aloi
What is the final number for gold we have available to spend after liquidation? I put in a couple of ideas for Dara’s items, but they may be hard to find or take too long to enchant…
4) I don't really have a good sense of if if for my primary weapon I should take
a) A merciful weapon - would that be annoying? It seems in line with my PC's general attitude, and devotion to Shelyn, OR
b) A keen weapon - would that be annoying to the GM based on the above? It's "better" but it also might be frustrating.I would not find a weapon with the merciful quality to be frustrating, although once or twice I may take the opportunity to have a previously surviving named opponent return in a later battle. I promise not to abuse this, though.
As for the keen weapon, I don't think that any potential conflict with your character's deity will need to be considered. As Nirmathas is currently being invaded/occupied by a force that Shelyn would probably condemn, she would conceivably allow one of her followers to make use a keen weapon to fight the good fight. After all, Shelyn's own glaive was taken from Zon-Kuthon, so she knows a thing or two about putting a dangerous weapon to use for a good cause.
Thanks. I spoke with some other PCs and I don't know if merciful would work this time. I can reflect Shelyn's pacifism other ways.
I finished tallying the treasure:
In addition to the 84,355gp that Trevor tallied the Battle of Longshadow netted us a total of 70,279 for a grant total of 154,634gp
That means we each have 51,544.7gp divided 3 ways or 38,658.5gp divided 4 ways. Since Esperanza will be leaving the party, @Vayelan how would you like us to handle that?
I finished tallying the treasure:
In addition to the 84,355gp that Trevor tallied the Battle of Longshadow netted us a total of 70,279 for a grant total of 154,634gp
That means we each have 51,544.7gp divided 3 ways or 38,658.5gp divided 4 ways. Since Esperanza will be leaving the party, @Vayelan how would you like us to handle that?
If you mean how to handle it narratively, we can have Esperanza stay behind at Longshadow with her mentor, and they can spearhead efforts to rebuild and secure the town in the wake of the siege.
If you mean how to handle her magic items and wealth, we could have her bequeath some of it to the party as you continue to take action against the Legion.
Sounds like we're going with a three-way split then? That would be an extra 51,544.7gp for Thorek, Daria, and Lily. Just making sure I'm not out over my skis.
You guys thing goblinoid bane is good for the amulet of mighty fists? Narratively it makes sense, but perhaps not mechanically if we are going against morlocks…
You guys thing goblinoid bane is good for the amulet of mighty fists? Narratively it makes sense, but perhaps not mechanically if we are going against morlocks…
Well, at the very least we know we'll be facing more of the legion in the future. The amulets are very expensive but you do have a massive 53 k gold to spend.
@Daria I think we'll have plenty of goblinoids, troops, etc to fight but we're probably reaching a point where we'll be fighting fewer than in the last three books. I don't think it will be a wasted option but it might be less useful than you'd like.
Thorek's Shopping List:
Knight's Pennon (4500)
Boots of Haste (12k)
Cloak of Resistance +3 upgrade (5k)
Bracers of Sworn Vengeance (25k)
Dragonbone Divination Sticks (6400)
That's a total of 52,900gp spent! As a warpriest I have a lot less need for specific weapon & armor enchantments because I can add my own on the fly, though its not unlimited or wide-open for the options available to me.
True, thanks for the input! I redid the numbers with the increased funding and it looks like a headband of +6 Wisdom is within reach, so that is a Big Bang for the gold piece for her spellcasting.
Narratively, before Undari’s death he was more into combat Wild shape…Now reincarnated as Daria she tends to be more cautious, in a more standoff spellcasting and support role.
An exotic saddle with an integrated Heavyload belt will work well for transportation via Giant Eagle.
Out of curiosity, what are we waiting for before we continue to advance the story?
Daria is updated and ready to go. I will need to know how many days of downtime we have before setting out (if any) to figure out herbalism concoctions.
Thorek's shopping & level up are also complete, I can get a post up in Gameplay to make it official. He wouldn't want to rush off from Longshadow immediately--the aftermath of a battle is difficult, he would feel a responsibility to stick around for at least a few days to make sure the locals are recovering.
I've got my character ready I just need to update her profile
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Ringo has an alias too, with some rules references built in.
Technically an Eagle advanced to huge size. A giant falcon advanced to huge size would work too and get Rend as well, or a Roc reduced to Huge size would also work. Given the way the rules work, it all stats out pretty close given that the mods from the Druid’s own stats are the same regardless of the form taken (Huge animal uses Beast Shape III).
Feel free to RP flying with or riding separately as you wish.
I was just explaining the reasoning for why I originally didn’t think there was room on the saddle. My assumptions about the nature of wildshape based on your character sheet supposed that it would not be possible to haul my PC and their animal companion around easily. My Pc is designed to not be reliant on others, whenever possible (hence the 60’ overland travel speed with woodland stride, nature’s paths, an innate fly speed, fast movement, etc).
If it hasn’t been a problem for the GM it isn’t a problem with me, I just have never heard of the advancing or reducing mechanic. It doesn’t affect my character in the slightest, and I’m happy to go along with whatever pleases the rest of the group to expedite things.
Excellent points, though. I made a recent update to the wild shape forms and so I just uploaded them into Google Drive and put a link in the Character description. It is my reference for when she wildshapes for combat, which is a lot less often since she, ironically, was killed in giant eagle form in her past life...
...and the heavyload belt makes things a lot better for carrying weight, but there is no reason you couldn't go along the ground and Daria Eagle just carries everyone else and keeps an eye on you. Her perception is pretty good, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Like I said, I'm happy to do whatever the party would like.
Out of curiosity, where did the size change rules come from? I play/have played druids in the past and would like to incorporate this into my character. It doesn't appear to be in the core rulebook or AoN as far as I can tell.
Sure.
The giant simple template ( https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Giant ) is how you advance a monster in size to the next largest. For druid Wildshape purposes, only the size change and base damage of the attacks apply, as the rest is governed by the Beast Shape spell rules.
The Young simple template ( https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Young ) does the same thing for making the base creature smaller…and of course for the druid Wildshape only the size change and the base damage of the attacks change as the Beast Shape spell rules apply.
It is a simple way to have animals of various sizes, and with the Druid Wild shape rules everything evens out pretty closely as the Druid base attack and abilities are modified by the wild shape Beast Shape spell parameters that have the same modifiers to natural armor and physical abilities for a particular size regardless of the precise animal form.
Linked in Daria’s profile is info for a tiger, eagle, and octopus. She can also turn into elementals, magical beasts, and plants, but the size is more limited.
I know about those templates, was looking for something else. Don’t worry about it. It’s a good system you made, and I’m glad it’s been working for you and the GM.
The whole point of this was just me, explaining why I made assumptions about the size of your character. Nobody else I’ve seen does it this way (herolab, for example), so I hope you understand why I was curious.
I don’t think it’s really useful to talk about any more unless there is some other campaign specific thing I should know.
For reference, I’m ready to go whenever everyone else is ready.