Valentinian was known, and surely Istiel knew the elves.
It is probably a good thing our communication is cut off from the rest of the world, otherwise Kal'Tos would be calling for a dwarven crusade to cleanse the world of shark-teeth for eating dwarves.
So 5 unknown NPCs venture off into the wild never to be seen again except as shark-tooth hoods, well done Hassan ;)
Only one is named - does that mean the rest are red-shirts, I wonder? :)
Oh yeah Istiel and those elves are best buds. Drizolas and Legoritz if I recall.
Edit: Outlined in my gameplay post, but some of the Kuru speak Polyglot, Cueta. You could give it and a linguistics check a try on our captives?
We have essentially confirmed the presence of goblinoids in the area. If that's the case next level I'll take a skill point in linguistics instead of geography and pick up the Goblin language.
I wonder where the dwarves are at. They could be in the hills.
Nerk: xp for the Kuru-slaying?
Edit: Outlined in my gameplay post, but some of the Kuru speak Polyglot, Cueta. You could give it and a linguistics check a try on our captives?
We have essentially confirmed the presence of goblinoids in the area. If that's the case next level I'll take a skill point in linguistics instead of geography and pick up the Goblin language.
I wonder where the dwarves are at. They could be in the hills.
I'll give it a try, Vallen - thank goodness for the underground teachings of halfling slaves!
If I understand correctly, Kuru is its own unique language, not an offshoot of Polygot? If so, we'd have to get them speaking in New World Polyglot and then make the rolls. In that case, I've got a 5% chance of adding New World Polyglot to my list of languages known, a 25% chance of some reasonable communication, and a 50% chance of sounding like a baby. On the plus side, my rolls have to even out soon.
DM Nerk, What about writing their babelings down phonetically and then taking 10 to talk like a baby after a lot of time working with it? I suppose we'd need some parchment and pen, which I doubt anyone has, unless Manari has a pen and is willing to let us write in her spellbook...
She's an educated lady - may have some skill in linguistics as well.
Maybe we should take one of these guys back to Newspring? Tie him to a tree and start working on learning Kuru (unless we kill them all shortly)? I'll put a point into linguistics next level for it - I've got plenty of sp to spread around - if you all think it is a good idea.
Kuru is a unique language, but Polyglot is listed as a language intelligent Kuru can know. We captured some Kuru warriors and not Kuru poets sadly, but it's still worth a try. One of them was intelligent enough to surrender, who knows!
We've also got large birds or birdmen around here somewhere. Not sure how they get along with the bugbears, as the goblins had a feather on their statue, but it could be another group to talk to about our mutual enemies.
Kuru is a unique language, but Polyglot is listed as a language intelligent Kuru can know. We captured some Kuru warriors and not Kuru poets sadly, but it's still worth a try. One of them was intelligent enough to surrender, who knows!
Ah, that was my fear. Well, we can hope that this tribe speaks Polyglot instead of Kuru, or that we did in fact capture their lorekeeper - but in that case to get them talking he might have to make a linguistics check to understand me?
Perhaps, but someone is going to have to make a linguistics check eventually.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a three (or more) way struggle between the goblinoids, the Kuru, and the birdpeoples. They could all be enemies of each other. For all we know the birdpeoples (if that's what those feathers are from) could be just as violent as the Kuru.
We are the invaders here, after all. We are so lucky we didn't land right in the middle of one of their territories.
Don't ask Kal'Tos to deal with linguistics, he doesn't know any of these exotic languages.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a three (or more) way struggle between the goblinoids, the Kuru, and the birdpeoples. They could all be enemies of each other. For all we know the birdpeoples (if that's what those feathers are from) could be just as violent as the Kuru.
This is another fear of mine. We may have a difficult decision down the line a bit.
I was thinking about taking skilled as my next feat, but I've been leaning on whatever the feat is that buffs diplomacy and bluff (or a combat feat, after that last battle). This scenario gives more weight to that option.
Don't ask Kal'Tos to deal with linguistics, he doesn't know any of these exotic languages.
But we are going to need one of you fine folks to talk with the dwarves when we encounter them!
Don't ask Kal'Tos to deal with linguistics, he doesn't know any of these exotic languages.But we are going to need one of you fine folks to talk with the dwarves when we encounter them!
Presumably they speak some form of dwarven, that I can handle.
Ok so 5 javelins minus two for Ceuta and myself, who gets the other 3?
Here's hoping the dwarves might make proper allies!
Oh, wanted to check, is C15 a forest of a hill hex?
And why can't you ever be supportive Kal'Tos? :P
Oh, wanted to check, is C15 a forest of a hill hex?
And why can't you ever be supportive Kal'Tos? :P
it's my dwarven nature to be brooding and bitter.
How do you want to approach this canoe discovery? Should we scout the coast instead of going to the cave, or go to the cave and a few of us then scout up the coast, probably in the canoe since it is smaller (I assume)? I think if they have any sort of village, we should be able to spot them before they spot us, as the huts, cooking fires, etc. will stand out easier to the eye.
Except if they are sending out boats, there's a good chance someone will be actively looking for their return from our direction.
Really this is nothing we didn't know before. We were already aware they traveled by water in these canoes and so had to be near the shore and not too far away.
Securing the supplies from the cave should only take a day, and then we can send the boats back to Newspring and far away from the shark-teeth. I would not suggest splitting our number until that has happened. We should though post a lookout to watch for any more boats traveling along the coast while we are dealing with the cave.
I think we should stick with the plan, but we could take an extra day to scout the coastline. We are obviously not safe here though. They're going to keep sending warriors after us until we're dead.
The current plan involves dealing with the shark-teeth in some fashion already. We should leave the scouting until we have loaded the boats though, keep our strength consolidated as long as possible.
Works for me. DM Nerk, can we put the canoe on one of the boats? If it fits 5, is it about half the size of a longboat? I'm assuming Cueta can make an estimate on these things by thinking about the fact that 5 Kuru attacked us and thinking in general about the size of canoes and the ones they saw earlier, as well as this one.
I agree about the lookout. If a boat goes west beyond us do we still send the boats back? That seems as if it would be dangerous.
There really isn't a way to hide the boats so if a canoe does come from the east it is not going to pass us by so sending the boats back won't be the problem. The problem will likely be getting the hell out of dodge before the whole tribe shows up.
There really isn't a way to hide the boats so if a canoe does come from the east it is not going to pass us by so sending the boats back won't be the problem. The problem will likely be getting the hell out of dodge before the whole tribe shows up.
If we can't hide the boats and they are going to send more Kuru looking for their buddies, should we take them out first, before they get put on alert? Plus, if we need to retreat, we can perhaps steal/sabotage/put out to sea their boats and take ours, guaranteeing our escape.
We should try to get the boats loaded tomorrow before attempting any action on their village because we have no idea what we'll be dealing with once we get there. If there are too many of them to deal with then we are just increasing the chances that we put the boats and supplies in danger on the way back. Riling them up will make it much more difficult to get the supplies from the cave safely and if there are too many shark-teeth to be dealt with now, those supplies are definitely the priority.
When we do scout out the village we should absolutely attempt to steal/sabotage their remaining canoes though.
Kal'Tos wasn't trying to imply that Bern was any more reckless than any other youth of his age. Youthful enthusiasm and bravery can be as dangerous as it is helpful sometimes.
Absolutely, and from Gair's perspective, Bern is his alone to worry about. Not upset, just trying to get into the fatherly mindset :)
You all make good points and I see that I am heavily outvoted, so I will concede my arguments and go to the cave.
Another concern I have - since we have another boat, if we manage to keep all three, perhaps we should keep the boats with us and travel back together after the scouting (and possible fight)? I'm still not really wild about sending two non-combatants and a couple of kids out into the wild on their own, especially since we know that there are bugbears and suspect that there are dwarves and birds or birdpeoples nearby.
We can also camp and leave the statues for the bugbears on the way back.
Absolutely, and from Gair's perspective, Bern is his alone to worry about. Not upset, just trying to get into the fatherly mindset :)
PF fatherhood: Don't you worry about my kid! He's perfectly capable of beheading his enemies on his own, thankyouverymuch! :P
Absolutely, and from Gair's perspective, Bern is his alone to worry about. Not upset, just trying to get into the fatherly mindset :)PF fatherhood: Don't you worry about my kid! He's perfectly capable of beheading his enemies on his own, thankyouverymuch! :P
That was part of the reason Kal'Tos was concerned, Bern got an epic hit. But some youth would assume that they can do that every time they fight these creatures. Bern shows great promise and will likely be somewhat important to the colony in the long run. It would be a shame to lose him in a moment of weakness early on.
Sounds like a plan has been settled on, to camp on the beach and retrieve the canoe the next day?
Correct!
That was my understanding.
I'm for it!
That sounds good.
As to Ceuta's concerns, I agree that a war canoe of this size means that we would be able to all head back to Newspring by boat. I have a couple questions about that plan though.
What do we do with the boats while we are scouting? We've decided that the waters are probably being watched near their village so that means we are going to be approaching by land. Finding their village could take several days, would we not be leaving the boats on their own for much of this time anyway? And they would be even closer to the shark-teeth to boot.
Do you have any thoughts on how to handle the logistics of keeping the boats with us?
Nerk, roughly what time does Tatya return to tell people about the Psudodragons?
I'm trying to figure out if Istiel is around at the time? She is our most practical draconic speaker.
She returns around dusk.
Istiel is only around if she says she is.
Yep, just needed a time, thanks.
I'm a little confused on the capacities of our boats though? So the canoe can hold 10 people and the longboats 20 each? I thought it was 10 for the longboats?
Edit, I do believe Istiel is not around then, but was supposed to be...
Good point Gair. I thought the longboats had 10 "slots" where a slot was 1 medium creature or 150 pounds of equipment, so I took it to mean the canoe had 5 slots, Nerk does say 10 people could fit in the canoe?
She can be around if you want to try and talk her into speaking to the pseudodragons, but they probably left when Tatya and the kids did.
DM Nerk may have something to add, but my interpretation was that since the war canoe (Cueta's going to call it a war canoe, to differentiate from the smaller, lightweight craft she hopes to build down the line) is the same length of the longboats, it can still fit 10, but for carrying goods, probably 1/2 that, because it is not as wide. I think I recall a post where it was stated that 20 people will fit in a longboat, but it is unwieldy and causes issues with piloting (increasing the DC to avoid sinking/capsizing).
In real life, with rivercraft at least, there is some evidence of this with the Str. Sultana tragedy. When the boilers blew on that boat, it was because the mass of humanity (2000+ people on a boat designed with a crew and passenger capacity of 450 or so) with uneven weight distribution caused the boat to shift in the current, in turn creating hot spots and blowing the boilers. In the aftermath of the disaster, the owners of the Sultana argued that the same amount of cargo, pound-wise was often carried on the boat and therefore they weren't breaking any regulations with passenger capacity. If they had been carrying cargo instead of people, the weight would have been distributed better towards the architecture of the boat, and perhaps all other things being equal, she doesn't blow up.
That's a long-winded way of saying, perhaps the war canoe carries 10 people but 5 goods, and the longboats carry 10 and 10, with the possibility of carrying 10 goods or 20 people (dangerously)?
I'm fine with her being absent, better to wait on the diplomacy for a bit anyway Vallen.
Ceuta, I'm confused actually. Your example seems to suggest the opposite of the rules you prepose? The Sultana seems to show that you can carry a larger weight of goods safely than people, no? Would that not suggest that if a longboat could carry 20 people unsafely, then 20 goods would not only be possible but a good deal safer?
I say we take only a few people scouting and send the rest back. A bigger party is more likely to draw attention to us. Say 4 people go scouting?
It's also more likely to get killed if we do run into trouble. Also, every person we try to send back with the longboats reduces the amount of supplies we can send back to Newspring.
Once we've found some sign of the village we can send a smaller group of our stealthier members to get a closer look but we should have backup available if it's needed.
I'm fine with her being absent, better to wait on the diplomacy for a bit anyway Vallen.
Ceuta, I'm confused actually. Your example seems to suggest the opposite of the rules you prepose? The Sultana seems to show that you can carry a larger weight of goods safely than people, no? Would that not suggest that if a longboat could carry 20 people unsafely, then 20 goods would not only be possible but a good deal safer?
To get really complicated (beyond PF's ability to replicate), you get into the concept of a tone-mile - charging by the ton by the mile for cargo, with cargo having different prices depending on type (a pound of feathers takes up much more volume than a pound of iron, for example, and thus costs more to ship). So, it is probably contingent on the type of goods carried.
I'd say a good compromise, and seems to fit with Nerk's writings, is that the safe limit due to size on the longboats is 10 goods and 10 people, as goods in general are going to take up more volume due to their less flexible nature compared to a body. Thus, you can fit more people in the same space as an equal amount of goods. Since goods are less flexible and the war canoe is half the width of the longboats, half the goods. However, it is designed for people transport, so 10 people.
Regarding the Sultana example, I'd say that steamers were designed to carry a massive amount of goods and a good amount of people as well, (say a 3:1 or 4:1 goods:people ratio, volume-wise). Longboats (as I understand it are basically ship's boats) are designed to carry both people and goods to more or less an equal amount (a 1:1 ratio), and canoes are designed to carry people mostly and not goods (a 1:2 ratio).
I probably should not have confused the situation with the Sultana - what I was getting at more was that they stuffed more people on the boat than the proper goods:people ratio that the boat was designed for, and eventually failed the profession(sailor) check because of it. Thus, one could perhaps stuff more people on a boat that is designed with a high goods to people ratio, but it is dangerous.
What do we do with the boats while we are scouting? We've decided that the waters are probably being watched near their village so that means we are going to be approaching by land. Finding their village could take several days, would we not be leaving the boats on their own for much of this time anyway? And they would be even closer to the shark-teeth to boot.
Well, I thought the waters might be watched but now I think the Kuru just stumbled upon us. They took refuge from the storm the next beach over and then saw a couple of longboats going up the mountain and thought, hey, I bet there is a buffet at the top!
I think there is going to be a bit of confusion on the part of the bad guys when their buddies don't return. War canoes might be sent out to look for them (we know they had at least two, now hopefully they have only one). It probably is best to avoid the coast for the time being, but the issue becomes how do we get the goods from the cave (which is a few hours from Harpy Beach) and keep the boats safe and/or hidden. If we lose the boats our salvage operation is sunk (drumroll). We can probably lug the canoe into the woods and hide it. We may be able to do the same with the longboats, at DM Nerk's discretion. In such a case, it may actually be a good idea to go with Kal'Tos's idea and crucify the bad guys, or at least leave the crime scene. Or make it look like something else happened such as an animal attack? A diversion basically, to buy us some time to get the boats loaded and then go scouting, while some sharkteeth are running around in the jungle a day away. Just spitballing here.
This is one reason why I wanted to scout first. We may not be able to do anything. Perhaps there's 100s of Kuru warriors and we have to leave immediately or we get eaten. Or perhaps, there's not many warriors left. We've killed 6 and the Harpyites have killed what another 5 - 10. Maybe there's only a handful? Maybe we wait until the confusion about their comrades set in, a war party leaves, and then we take their village (if we can hide the boats first)? Maybe we sneak in the night and kill everyone (or at least the combatants). Maybe we kill a few guards and commit a daring raid on the canoes, scuttling and capturing and letting loose the rest.
I think it boils down to three courses of action. One is hide the boats somehow for the time being, move the goods close to the boats and then go scouting. After the scouting, decide what to do with the Kuru, and then go home.
Or, hide the boats and scout along the coast. Find the Kuru, decide what to do. Do it. Leave and load the boats.
Or, scout along the coast, with the boats, if we can't hide them all. Find the Kuru and decide what to do. Do it. Leave and load the boats.
So, the longboats carry 10 slots safely, or 20 dangerously. The canoes carry 5 slots safely. Up to 10 dangerously. I apologize for the confusion, my brain stepped out for a moment.
Leaving a message at the scene of our attack isn't likely to do much as any other shark-teeth would have to pass us on their way to finding it anyway.
Why can we not just park the boats and station a couple lookouts to watch for any further canoes while the rest of us bring down the supplies? Then load the longboats and send them back. The rest of us hide the canoe and go scout out the shark-teeth, decide what action we are going to take, execute it and then head back, retrieve the canoe and return to Newspring? This was more or less our original plan and I still think it's the best one.
leaving the boats and supplies unguarded for several days is just asking for something to happen and is more of a risk than sending them back with a couple guards in my opinion.
Edit : Thanks for the clarification Nerk. How dangerous is it to overload the boats? what sort of penalties/extra person are we talking here?
First let's head to the wreck of the Harpy. Then we should do our interrogation- Cueta attempts communication in Polyglot first. If that is unsuccessful, we separate the two Kuru. Vallen or Kal'tos heals the unconscious one back into the positives. Vallen/Kal'tos casts comprehend languages, hides somewhere, bring the two Kuru together, eavesdrop on their conversation. While all this is happening, other people are carrying goods/food from the cave to the boat.
Why can we not just park the boats and station a couple lookouts to watch for any further canoes while the rest of us bring down the supplies? Then load the longboats and send them back. The rest of us hide the canoe and go scout out the shark-teeth, decide what action we are going to take, execute it and then head back, retrieve the canoe and return to Newspring? This was more or less our original plan and I still think it's the best one.
I'm fine with this - I think it is a good plan up until the NPCs get murdered by a random encounter :)
Leaving the message is only good if we can hide the boats. Same with leaving the boats unguarded for days. I don't think the Kuru are more likely than any other to stop at Harpy Beach for awhile if we cover our tracks. No doubt they've been back there and seen that the scene is vacated. So, if the boats are all well-hidden then it is no more risky than sending the NPCs back with the boats. But, really, I'm fine with the original plan.
If we leave lookouts and they see canoes, what then? At least some of these guys are faster than we are. Do the lookouts hide? Do they run and hope they don't get caught up to? Do we leave the most combat capable (PCs) at the beach? Excepting the dwarves which will be needed for ant hauling? Of course, I am assuming that we're the most combat capable, and after that last fight, I don't know if that is the case, at least in my case :)
EDIT: Another thought - if we send the longboats laden with supplies, will they be easy to catch up to? I mean, can a canoe cover more ground than a laden-down longboat? If so, maybe we should take the war canoe up the coast, regardless of the risk to us - we'd intercept any war canoes that could catch our longboats.
Sounds good Vallen but why are we heading to the wreck? Or do you just mean head to the beach nearby?
Well being lookouts, they will be hiding Ceuta so I doubt the shark teeth will see them from out on the water. If they do spot any shark-teeth, they head back towards the cave to bring the others. If the shark-teeth don't know they have left that way they are not likely to head towards the cave at full speed and even if they do, the lookouts can travel to the side so the shark-teeth are likely to pass by entirely.
There are risks involved here to be sure but we're trying to operate in the territory of cannibals, there are risks to any choice we make.