Sadly it didn't happen this time but you can totally crit corporeal undead in pathfinder Ceuta!
I think us rangers proved our worth on this one! 5 out of 6 ain't bad :D
I had no idea about the corporal undead being crit-possible in PF. I've been doing that wrong for a long time.
Rangers rock!
Yep, you can crit constructs now too! really anything with a solid form. It's pretty much only elementals, incorporeals and oozes that are immune these days!
Alright so we still need to decided whether we are portaging the canoe or having the longboats tow it back to Newspring in order to bring back additional supplies? At this point, I'd suggest we load the canoe and have it towed back actually. What do you guys think?
I say we grab all the goods we can and get out of this cursed part of the map. Between necromancers and cannibals it is probably going to be better for our long term health if we get out of this area as soon as possible.
If the NPCs can handle towing it, I'm fine with that.
I thought we were scouting with the canoe? Did the plan change? I am all for them towing the canoe back for extra supplies though.
I think the decision was that we were going to go home overland since the bad guys think we'll be going by sea. We can scout the coastline via foot and have the wilderness to hide in.
As for what's going on in Newspring, Sorala is on the council, so if Istiel could tell her (or we can retcon it) that would be good. How can we get Gaross and Septimus involved? Septimus I could see getting involved pretty easily - he has the heal skill. But Garross?
Sorala is on the council? We should make a list of council members in the NPC section. I was looking at the list you made earlier, I didn't see her.
Also:
Is it the 13th day currently? Who all is going with the boats? This is the breakdown I have in mind so far-
Longboat #1 gets 11 goods, Sai, a guard (let's say Jaysin), 8 units of food (9.44/10 slots filled)
Longboat #2 gets 12 goods, Walton, a guard (let's say Edmund), 8 units of food (9.61/10 slots filled)
Warcanoe gets 6 goods (4/5 slots filled), towed behind a longboat.
If you want to send another person to guard (Manari, Kyle, Or Bern,) They can safely ride in the canoe. Otherwise another goods can go in the canoe for (4.6666666666 repeating forever/5) slots filled.
Everyone else walks with us.
Yeah, Gair nominated her. I think the council is: Ben, Sandra, Edmund, Kal'Tos, Jarla, Sorala, Gair, Manari?, Vallen? Does that sound right?
I think we should leave behind some goods or food for all of the NPCs to go back. If they are going to go via water they may run into sharkteeth, and they have to navigate the bugbears (and hopefully they'll drop off a statue and a couple of heads along the way). I think having two more toughs and a wizard greatly increase their chances of survival, especially if they run into a warcanoe's worth of bad guys.
We will have to sacrifice 3 goods in order for Bern and Kyle to go back with the boats. I want those goods, personally. We should send Manari with the boats and keep Bern and Kyle with us, she'll take care of everyone.
I think Vallen has the right of it, Keep the young warriors with us in order to maximize our goods. Jaysin, Edmund and Manari should be able to handle things. Manari is our best bet to handle the bugbears anyway and I don't feel like they/it is going to attack this time.
We should be fairly safe on the shark-tooth front as we've been watching the waters constantly for days so it's a decent bet there are no shark-teeth currently between our boats and the bay. With luck they will be able to stay ahead of any others that might head that way.
Are you wanting to scrap the scouting Kal'Tos? Personally I think these dangers are all the more reason to get what information we can. Newspring is only a few hexes from these dangers, we need to know what we can about them.
Not to mention, where's your sense of adventure? :D
I just want to say, I kind of hate Istiel a little bit...and that's perfect. She is such a great pain in the ass :P
The more time we spend in the area the more likely we are to encounter large groups of Kuru and for them to realize that it wasn't just a couple random people. They don't seem to travel to where the colony is frequently (perhaps because the bugbears are in the way?) so keeping a lower profile may avoid drawing attention to ourselves.
But if everyone else wants to keep going Kal'Tos will go scouting.
I agree that they haven't presently found Newspring but it's only been two weeks since we arrived here. I'd say they know all to well that it's more than a few of us already.
The Kuru that attacked the Harpy survivors and made off with a number of captives know perfectly well that there are another 30 or 40 or us at least who are somewhere nearby. I think the cat's out of the bag as far as that's concerned.
I would still very much like to get a measure of how many Kuru we are dealing with and where they are based. Then again, Gair is a fairly bold person as most Kellid are.
I dunno. I'm fine to go along with you all on this, but I look at it like this: losing two goods for sure and increasing everyone's odds of getting back safely is better than losing a wizard, a monk, two pilots and an Edmund (cavalier?). Ok, Cueta wouldn't shed any tears if we lost Edmund, but he is a capable fighter. Also, we could lose three boats, and ALL the goods and food, if misfortune befalls that convoy. If it weren't for considerations regarding making our DM work more, I'd actually like to send a PC or two as well and lose even more goods.
Sending Bern and Kyle is like paying insurance - we lose the two goods up front, but mitigate the risk a bit of losing everything else - whether to bugbears (I agree they are probably not a threat, but...), sharkteeth, wandering monsters, necromancers, bird-things, whatever disappeared the scouts and killed Valentinen near Newspring, and who knows what else. We live in a dangerous neighborhood. I hate to gamble all those resources, in people, goods, food, and boats, on two goods. It seems reckless and unnecessary for what amounts to a few days of skill checks and gp spent (Sorala could create a goods tomorrow for example, in something like 5 days of checks). We can get the 2 goods back, but getting the boats, skills and goods/food that could be lost will cost so much more in time and resources to replace. That's a big bet to place on wandering monster checks or our own knowledge of the world.
And, who knows - maybe we don't lose the goods. Maybe we solve the sharkteeth issue and take another couple of warcanoes back and pick up the goods on the way?
I just want to say, I kind of hate Istiel a little bit...and that's perfect. She is such a great pain in the ass :P
Haha! Good... good... That's what I was going for.
I'm with Kal'tos- dwarven conservatism and such. I want to get back to Newspring, with as many goods as possible, and we can start building more farms and exploring hexes for more food.
I think I could be convinced to ship Kyle back with the boats as well. Frankly given the free space in between the two longboats, I imagine we could find room for him to go along without even having to sacrifice any goods from our current plan.
The goods aren't single pieces so there's no reason we can't separate them enough to put the free space in a single longboat and I don't think Nerk is really going to apply any penalties for being .05 over on carrying capacity.
If it really is a problem, Gair can carry an extra 10lbs with him and we'll be all set.
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Thinking about it more, what the hell. The canoe allows us to take more supplies than we'd counted on anyway so lets send Bern as well. You're right that we should give them as much protection as possible.
I think us scouts are far more likely to end up in danger but the 5 of us PC's are really still more capable than the 7 NPC's put together, considering 2 of them are essentially non-combatants.
The GM says something with mysterious implications to influence the players one way or another.
Actually, I'm looking at this and thinking that you guys respecting my request not to split the party has you in a bit of a jam here. As a way of saying thanks, then, I'll tell you that the NPCs will get safely home, as long as they've got a fighter in each boat.
I'm with Kal'tos- dwarven conservatism and such. I want to get back to Newspring, with as many goods as possible, and we can start building more farms and exploring hexes for more food.
Well, I'd argue that the conservative play is to let the two goods go and make sure the rest get back safely, rather than increase the odds of failure by not sending more protection back...
But, Nerk will kindly let our goods get back home, so we can keep some of the NPCs with us! Who is staying then? Should we keep the wizard?
Nerk I think you may have missed septimus' post about 2 minutes before yours.
Thinking about it more, what the hell. The canoe allows us to take more supplies than we'd counted on anyway so lets send Bern as well. You're right that we should give them as much protection as possible.
Yaaayy! I was convincing! And then Nerk torpedoed my argument, letting us keep NPCs - the best possible outcome! ;)
Alright, I actually think we should still send Manari with the supplies. You still want them to set up the message to the bugbears on the way back, yes? Manari seems like the most capable of our NPC's for such a task, no?
Other than that we can keep Bern and Kyle with us for added muscle! Thanks Nerk!
Dwarven greed sometimes outweighs dwarven conservatism! Thank you Nerk!! Now we don't have to fight to the death over 3 goods and their possible outcomes.
Let's send Edmund, Kyle, and Jaysin with the boats. Keep Manari and Bern with us. Manari because she is the elf wizard we wish we had, and Bern because he's brash and it's fun.
Edit: Ah yeah the statue. We can ask Jaysin- he'd probably enjoy it, given his kuru vendetta.
I suppose Jaysin will do. Just don't forget to send them with the Kuru heads!
Provided that the other explorers don't return, would it be safe to assume that you would prefer if we found reasons for our 5 NPC's to be the ones to go searching?
As much as Hassan has his place in Newspring, I think he could be convinced to go as he is the one who sent the explorers out in the first place.
Istiel is certainly going- two of the elves went along.
IF the Newspringers aren't going to wait for the batmobile to return, I would rather you find reason for all five of you to go on the expedition, or none of you.
Ugh, I'm so torn! I see the value in waiting but it's going to be days before the PC's make it back to Newspring.
And I'm certainly not willing to commit more NPC's to the task...
I think what we do should really be according to Nerk's wishes. I think a good argument can be made for battening down the hatches or going looking.
Nerk, would you prefer us to stay at Newspring?
Another thought occurs to me. It probably isn't, but perhaps the "her" the sharkteeth were referring to is the necromancer that raised the zombies? If she operates in the area, then maybe the sharkteeth worship her...
I'm not actually planning on sending Istiel out by herself, but that is what she would say and do. If we decide not to go she's not going to run off.
If we just do a small search west of Newspring, we should only be gone part of the day. The body of the halfling was only a mile or so away. We can all do a quick search, then return.
I got the vibe from the Kuru that they were worshiping some kind of mortal woman with magical powers. Vallen's knowledge religion check also showed that the Kuru tend to worship demons.
So, if I recall correctly, animate dead is a ritual in P6? If so, (metagaming here), we're dealing with a pretty powerful force - one we probably shouldn't be picking a fight with (yet). And if it is a demon? Oh, boy...
I think a small search within the immediate surroundings of Newspring is a good compromise - I just don't want to overload our DM, so I think we should definitely defer to his wishes. It would be bitter pill for Sorala to swallow to batten down the hatches, but she can see that it is a smart thing to do.
Also, are all of our NPCs fairly socially awkward, or is it just me?
Good point. I wouldn't be surprised if we were dealing with a powerful force here. I think it would take a lot to get Kuru to worship you if that's the case.
Hey, Istiel is an upstanding member of elven society! I kid- our Npcs all have their flaws, and it's hilarious. Istiel just doesn't really get along with anyone but elves. I love Sorala carrying around the Garrak statue and talking to it.
What do you mean by socially awkward? Lacking in face skills? Then yeah, we're not the most persuasive bunch:P
I also don't think we should be picking a fight with a necromancer, not directly at least.
Sticking to our hex is probably a good idea for the time being. The problem here is that our situation leaves way too much to be done for only one group to be operating beyond Newspring itself...and after our first experience, I'm somewhat underwhelmed with delegating to NPC's...
Speak for yourselves. I'm a bear-cowled badass and musician from the drifting sands :P
So with the boats we should be able to send 30 goods back to newspring, (Added one, as I said before .05 of a slot shouldn't be an issue), that leaves I believe 9 in the cave? We should be able to take the last of the food with us overland without any trouble.
Speak for yourselves. I'm a bear-cowled badass and musician from the drifting sands :P
Ha! I spoke too soon!
Regarding the salvaging, I'm fine for moving on until the morning if everyone else is.
Hey, Istiel is an upstanding member of elven society! I kid- our Npcs all have their flaws, and it's hilarious. Istiel just doesn't really get along with anyone but elves. I love Sorala carrying around the Garrak statue and talking to it.
Oh, I've got plans for that statue! Garrack's death may have unhinged Sorala a wee bit...
Cueta ... To help with the meta gaming, Animate Dead is a ritual for arcane casters (4th level on the wiz/sorc list) but divine casters get the regular version as a 3rd level spell. There's also Lesser Animate Dead.
As I said, if people DO leave Newspring, I'm 100% fine with that, as long as everyone (all 5 secondary PCs) does. Essentially, I'm ok with running two parallel scenes. More than that, grrr.
Gair raises a good point, which is that there's a lot of things to be done. While he says it's too much to just have one group operating outside of Newspring, I'd suggest that there's plenty to keep a group entertained.
Also, things I may have said but think I haven't:
Your NPC level for the secondary character does count as one of your 6 levels. At some point, if you have the time and $, retraining will definitely be possible. Your main PCs can retrain their NPC levels, but the PC level they gain that way will count against their 6.
So
If Gair retrains as a Ranger 2, he'll cap out at Ranger 6.
If Kal'Tos keeps his level of expert, he'll cap out at Expert 1/Cleric 6.
If Septimus retrains his level of adept into Druid, he'll cap out at Druid 6.
If Sorala holds onto her level of expert, she'll cap out at Expert 1/Witch 5.
And obviously, these are just examples. You might take your character in a totally different direction.
Also, yes, the Hs on the map represent hills.
Cueta ... To help with the meta gaming, Animate Dead is a ritual for arcane casters (4th level on the wiz/sorc list) but divine casters get the regular version as a 3rd level spell. There's also Lesser Animate Dead.
As I said, if people DO leave Newspring, I'm 100% fine with that, as long as everyone (all 5 secondary PCs) does. Essentially, I'm ok with running two parallel scenes. More than that, grrr.
Gair raises a good point, which is that there's a lot of things to be done. While he says it's too much to just have one group operating outside of Newspring, I'd suggest that there's plenty to keep a group entertained.
Also, things I may have said but think I haven't:
Your NPC level for the secondary character does count as one of your 6 levels. At some point, if you have the time and $, retraining will definitely be possible. Your main PCs can retrain their NPC levels, but the PC level they gain that way will count against their 6.So
If Gair retrains as a Ranger 2, he'll cap out at Ranger 6.
If Kal'Tos keeps his level of expert, he'll cap out at Expert 1/Cleric 6.If Septimus retrains his level of adept into Druid, he'll cap out at Druid 6.
If Sorala holds onto her level of expert, she'll cap out at Expert 1/Witch 5.And obviously, these are just examples. You might take your character in a totally different direction.
Also, yes, the Hs on the map represent hills.
Ok so how does that effect experience then? If I remember we are on the medium track. Do we currently count as 1st level characters, thus will level up at 2000exp or are we 2nd and will have to wait until 5000exp to level?
On the topic of the search. I'm ok with the short range one but other than that I feel like we are going to have to wait. Hassan can't in good conscience leave for several days under present conditions...
On the subject of all we have to do, it's not that I'm wanting to take on more myself. This campaign is already super interesting and is keeping us extremely busy. It's more that we have so many issues to solve that are time sensitive.
Even aside from solving the murders, we need another hex explored so we can at least start to combat the food problem.
Even then, moving the foragers and increasing their number is too little. As the math stands now, foragers are on average only capable of feeding themselves and that's before you factor in the stress of overworking a hex.
We need to find some sort of alternative source of food to keep us going until we get a number of farms built or a lot of us are going to starve before the work is completed.
Our dwindling supplies make every day precious and work against the idea of getting to things in their own time.
Ok so how does that effect experience then? If I remember we are on the medium track. Do we currently count as 1st level characters, thus will level up at 2000exp or are we 2nd and will have to wait until 5000exp to level?
I *think* DM Nerk addressed this earlier, but my search-fu is failing me. IIRC, we'll level up to 3 at 2000 xp.
On the subject of all we have to do, it's not that I'm wanting to take on more myself. This campaign is already super interesting and is keeping us extremely busy. It's more that we have so many issues to solve that are time sensitive.
Even aside from solving the murders, we need another hex explored so we can at least start to combat the food problem.
Even then, moving the foragers and increasing their number is too little. As the math stands now, foragers are on average only capable of feeding themselves and that's before you factor in the stress of overworking a hex.
We need to find some sort of alternative source of food to keep us going until we get a number of farms built or a lot of us are going to starve before the work is completed.
Our dwindling supplies make every day precious and work against the idea of getting to things in their own time.
Yeah, the food and scouting issues are the next that need to be resolved. I think you and I (and perhaps others) should scout/forage as soon as we get back.
As to what to do about the food, I'm kind of at a loss. I suppose Sorala could put down her alchemy and forage, but that is just a drop in the bucket. I think a lot of people are going to die...
A whole lot of good stuff...
Thank you, Nerk, for the clarifications! Even though it isn't optimal, I'll probably keep the level of expert for Sorala. It is a pretty integral part of her story.
I think in almost every way that matters you're second level, but we're considering the NPC level a freebie for purposes of experience and level cap.
Try to look on the bright side, Gair: the more NPCs that die, the less the food you need.
Sarcasm aside, starvation is a very real problem that was pretty common to early efforts at colonization. Farming is great, but it takes a long time to get rolling. Exploration is hazardous and resources are scarce. This is all designed to be challenging in a way that the usual campaigns aren't.
I think in almost every way that matters you're second level, but we're considering the NPC level a freebie for purposes of experience and level cap.
Cool, just wanted to make sure!
Thank you, Nerk, for the clarifications! Even though it isn't optimal, I'll probably keep the level of expert for Sorala. It is a pretty integral part of her story.A whole lot of good stuff...
It's also a bucketload of skills and skill points. There's a really good reason everyone except Gair took expert as their NPC class. My next campaign will have everyone start as a commoner.
Yeah, I'd definitely considered it but Gair's background really demanded warrior. Such is life in the Mammoth Realms. Oh well, he does pretty well on the skill end of things regardless. It helps that with the exception of diplomacy, everything I was hoping to take is already a class skill for rangers :)
On Hassan's end I'm thinking cavalier might be a good route for him. Provided I can find him a suitable mount by the time we level.
It's also a bucketload of skills and skill points. There's a really good reason everyone except Gair took expert as their NPC class. My next campaign will have everyone start as a commoner.Thank you, Nerk, for the clarifications! Even though it isn't optimal, I'll probably keep the level of expert for Sorala. It is a pretty integral part of her story.A whole lot of good stuff...
For a campaign like this playing a 2+ Int character would have been really challenging without a level of expert, and running a successful colony is much easier with some non-intelligence primary classes. And the level of expert gives interesting background to our characters.