My initial instinct is actually to sign it, once we've made sure it's not going to bite us in the ass. Currently, there's nothing in it that means we have to work towards her goals - only the safeguarding of the lodestones against the Abyss, and that does not need to be in her hands contractually. That gives us a lot of wiggle room to work against her while sticking to the terms.
I mean, we absolutely need to make sure 'You are now my slaves and your souls are mine, blarggAOIWHRAZ HAAHAHAH!!!!!!!" isn't written on the back or hidden in invisible ink or something else like that. And we'll need to be wary of any addendums she wants to add to counter ones we need to add in.
The main thing is the final part, 'In cooperation with the patron' part. She might be able to bend that one, so we'll need it clarifying.
One of the issues S. A. M. would take with the contract is its lack of specificity. For example, who are these "unnamed forces of the Abyss"? Are we dealing with 1, 10, or 100 lodestones? It has no duration on it so we would presumably be bound to protect a lodestone for as long as we are capable of giving it our best efforts, i.e. until we die or perhaps afterward. To Enziver's point, lack of specificity on the duration of the contract may implicitly signify indefinite duration.
So I think S. A. M.'d want to nail down a duration and a specific foe or number of foes. If we protect a lodestone from Demonic assault, is our job done, or do we need to protect it from all future assaults as well?
Indentured, indefinite servitude is a high price for some (admittedly cool) magic items. And believe me, those gloves are tempting.
Olivia's preference if she is to sign a contract is to keep the not lying to each other clause and drop everything else (and then define the duration of their alliance as something like 24 hours after one party informs the other their alliance is ending). But then, I'm also not that interested in the magic items (which is a general problem I have with 5e).
Horat: Int 16, Cha 8. ;)
Those gloves really are tempting!
OOC I know there's got to be a trap in there somewhere, but in character I think S. A. M. would find the chaotic evil Abyssal forces more heinous than the lawful evil devils and would probably believe he owes some fealty to the princess who gave him such power. As such, in character, I believe S. A. M. would sign with some reservations. He's not the most intelligent nor most wise robot.
That said, I'm not interested in forcing Olivia to sign. If we walk away, we end up with two foes, which could be really cool, especially as S. A. M. and Olivia battle their... uh... devils. We make a powerful foe and still have to fight the demons at the Lodestones anyway, this time without fiendish aid.
I wouldn't worry about "forcing" Olivia to sign it. Her getting her way is less important to me than her being absolutely convinced it's a terrible idea. So if we do sign it and things go horribly wrong, absolutely expect an "I told you so" from her. ;-) But in character, there are a couple of ways I could spin it to get her to agree to sign.
Also, we will be getting Liv's opinion on the matter later, probably after we've made a decision.
I think you know that this decision will have consequences but also won't break the game either way.
So it sounds like Horat favors signing, Sam favors signing, Olivia is against, I'm guessing Liv is in favor but I'm not sure she gets to vote, and Enizver seems sort of against signing?
E, can you clarify your position? If it's 2-2 we'll need to think/discuss a little more. Or the party can decide to roll 1d2 to decide. Whatever works for you guys.
Horat isn't in love with signing. But he sees it as a means to combat a clear threat. The fiend isn't making up that demon incursions are an issue. His decision is swayed to a lesser degree by a genuine hatred of demons but that more stems from his overall nature.
Liv is actually against signing. She wants freedom and is smart enough to know that the devil probably has magical ways of actually enforcing the contract.
But at this point, I tend to think it's less a question of "Are we signing" and more a question of "Are we signing the contract as it currently is." I get the impression that both Horat and SAM are in favor of signing as is because they really want those gloves (though I suppose also worth asking if there are duplicates of items or if those two are going to be fighting over who gets the gloves). I'd prefer to limit the contract to only the truthfulness clause.
Sorry, I was having a sleepy day.
I think signing the contract is a viable choice that I wouldn't oppose, but yeah, I'd rather find another way. Devil's are the mutliverse's best lawyers. If we're clever and work hard we might avoid getting completely screwed over, but it's risky. If nothing else the unavoidable consequence is that we're working with devils to secure vital points of reality. We're gonna find out what the Monster Manual has for good-aligned monsters.
Well the trouble is, "good-aligned" doesn't mean "at your beck and call." Contacting Celestials and getting them to help you isn't easy. I'm not sure what you would even do to attempt that at this level.
I interpreted Enziver’s remark as we will end up in combat with good-aligned monsters. Am I mistaken?
No, that's pretty much it. No matter our intentions we're working with devils to take control of reality. At best most good-aligned creatures will see us as deluded or mislead. At worst they'll see us as willing agents of a princess of hell.
That bit isn't as concerning to Horat. He was forced to fight on the same side as demons, and for a lot less important reason.
Alrighty we want to keep moving forward so someone propose amendments or let's sign or let's not sign. Either way, we want to proceed.
Well, since we're tied, anyone wanna flip a coin? No proposed amendments if we do sign.
I already proposed an amendment, but I think we don't get into a more agreeable state with it.
I'm fine flipping a coin. 1 = Sign, 2 = Don't sign?
Oh, but I would like to confirm if there are duplicates of items before signing since Horat and SAM want the same thing. Or at least that if there aren't duplicates and we sign, it's not going to be an issue.
I'm also fine with flipping a coin, given the split. I suggest that we do it IC.
I wish I had thought of that question before Horat said that he had no more questions.
Upon initial signature of this contract, the patron will provide each of the mortal undersigned with a powerful artifact, negotiated before signature.
If it's an issue, that would come up before signing when we're negotiating the items (I also assume if people really wanted to, they could try pitching different magic items to the ones she presented).
For the record, if we sign the contract as is, I currently plan to go for the ring of spell storing.
I think Horat doesn't even need the gloves because he can cast with a two-handed weapon in hand no problem.
But no, there are no duplicates of the items.
In that case, I'm interested in the Mantle of Spell Resistance. Horat will have to make quite a few saves methinks.
Flipping a coin IC sounds like a great solution. I don't think Olivia or I should do it because we sort of make up the two polar opposite positions on this, and she's our patron anyway. I suggest either Horat or Enziver does it IC.
I aim to take the gloves of the warrior mage if nobody objects. I think they are powerful enough as-is, but I would probably try to haggle with her and would be happy to haggle on anyone else's behalf. (I have +7 to persuasion)
She claims to be our patron. Olivia doesn't buy it and as far as Liv's concerned, she essentially Olivia's patron. :-P
Haggling could net us benefits. I say aye.
And true, we have no way of knowing how truthful she's being on the matter of patronage.
We could probably barter a sum of gold. We're not that short on coin but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
And if we go for the contract I'll grab the item to make the Thunder Cannon magic. I kinda assumed it was why it was there.
If everyone's cool Enizver will do a coin flip in a couple of hours, when I have a break at work.
I'm fine with Enizver oiling his thunder cannon and flipping that coin.
TBH I considered the oil for Horat's halberd but the mantle would be more useful considering the attacks coming in.
Will post in the morning.
I'll get to catch up and post tomorrow.
I hope you guys aren't too frustrated about this conundrum OOC. It is the name of this game, quite literally. And the original interest check for this game specified it would be deeply involved with the Blood War. Who are the good guys in the Blood War? But I understand that only Horat and Enizver were part of that original interest check so hopefully the others aren't caught too off-guard.
If it makes you feel better, things won't always be this way. My most recent gameplay post is foreshadowing that you guys will eventually be able to attempt daring infiltrations of one of the Nine Hells. But you're certainly not there yet and won't be for a while. So you need to pick a side or try to play both sides off of each other or something. You can't just not interact with them. The stakes are too high.
In my defence I had loooong forgotten about that detail. But I'm certainly not upset. As a good character, Enizver will be very much looking into playing the two sides off against each other as much as possible, because he has no wish to see either of them win. If that proves impossible, I'd probably go with the devils. At least they won't change there mind and eat your family the next day 'cos of the lols.
I didn't know what the Blood War was prior to this.
Olivia's current plan is "Find out what the lodestone is, and then just guard it while trying to keep it out of anyone's hands." Though she's also not about to say that in front of the devil/demon. Even though that's pretty much all he's asked us to do anyway/he hasn't said anything about us handing the lodestone over to him (she's expecting him to try to do something tricksy to get it though).
So I'm not really bothered by it. But I also feel like I don't really know enough to know what to ask, especially since Olivia generally feels like she shouldn't trust anything either side says anyway. But if other people have questions, I want them to ask to see what info they get before ending questioning to go find the lodestone.
It sounds like our next move is to head to the lodestone Abraxas is referring to and protect it from Fierna’s onslaught. We don’t necessarily have to align ourselves with the demons. Theoretically we could do what Liv is suggesting and guard it from both sides. You guys okay with that?
IC S. A. M. would be interested in working with the devils until that proves untenable. Perhaps we can force Fierna into a better bargaining position if we hold the next lodestone she wants.
Apologies for delay. This week has been tricky for me getting to update pbp.
I'm up for denying the lodestone to both evil parties.
A heads up. I'll be at a con for most of today and playing D&D for most of tomorrow.
Some lucky rolls. I would be up for some shopping, then a rest before finding passage north to the Great Bay of Wind.
Does anybody know how much it costs to get cold winter gear? Is there, like, some kind of standard kit meant for dealing with cold climates? I assume we at least need warm coats but maybe also special bedrolls/tents or something?
There doesn't seem to be anything that I can find.
Ah. Horat would look for cold weather gear if the topic came up. I suspect he wouldn't think of it himself, being from a very warm land.
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Where are y'all getting this "we need to go further inland" idea from? We're looking for the shaman of the Bear Children and these are the Bear Children. Is this not where their village is?
Good catch, Olivia.
My fault, although I have no idea why I assumed we had to go inland.
Hello Pawn's Dilemma friends,
I have been asked to pass along that GM's firstborn has come and the pace of the game may slow a bit in the near future as they spend time together as family. In GM's words, he'll be "spotty for a while."
Best regards,
S. A. M.
Huzzah! On the former, not the latter. ;)
Congrats on the baby!
Congrats!
Thanks, guys!
Alright, full disclosure about the plot of this campaign, though I've already said something like this. I wrote this campaign for you guys to have to side with devils or demons, at least temporarily, and try to play them off each other. I understand the drive to side with neither incredibly evil and untrustworthy cosmic faction but I don't have a plan for how you win without doing so. So you can try to come up with things but it's super uphill because I'm not plot-hooking you toward "This is how you secure lodestones from both hordes of Fiends simultaneously" because I don't think that's realistic for level 5 PCs to do, even with gestalt, without divine intervention. There are reasons why I wrote this such that said divine intervention isn't happening. But I'm absolutely ok with letting you try things. I'm just giving you the heads up that it's gonna be tough. You'll see what I mean over the course of this in-game day.
I can imagine!
One option is to try to get really, really good at killing evil outsiders by ourselves. But there are limits to that strategy, as you point out. ;)
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Well you're going to get lots of practice...
The problem is that most (all?) of us are good-aligned characters, and handing over people to devils and demons...just isn't in our nature. If it was a Glowy McGuffin then handing it over for a while would be fine - but having people worn as meat suits isn't something Enizver can support. Playing them against each would be ideal...but not when people get munched.
Another slight problem is that we have no idea how many lodestones there are/how many are needed to drag our plane into Hell/the Abyss. So each one we hand over might be the one that destroys everything.
For that reason, if Olivia weren't opposed to sacrificing a man we just told we'd protect, I'd almost be tempted to give this to the demons. Or I suppose strengthen our bargaining position with the devils before handing them over.
Though Olivia would probably trust Horat's judgment, as the most senior member of the group. So he might be able to convince her taking sides is their only real option. Or I suppose I can try having Liv take over since she's a bit less idealistic/driven by a need for redemption.