Play-by-Post GMing 101 (Inactive)

Game Master Hmm

I want to apologise for being nearly absent the last few days. Life has overwhelmed me. I hope to be back to normal tomorrow.

Oh, I hope everything is alright with you, Choon! Here I was hoping that you had merely had a glorious weekend.

Here's hoping things get better,
Hmm

It wasn't bad. I was just... overwhelming. So much happening, so little time!

When that happens, announce a three day break in your PBPs as a GM. Let people know, and enjoy the time off. You'll come back refreshed and your parties will know they have a GM who communicates!

@Bearington - I'm glad the line breaks and the hyperlinks and such proved useful to you! The hyperlink thing I do often even as a player, usually to save the GM/other players time on having to look up some spell or ability I'm using. The formatting (line breaks and small ooc notes) I picked up more recently from GM Giuseppe because I really appreciated how easy it made it to read his posts :)

@KoA - Noted on the doors. I generally try not to assume too many actions on the part of the PCs beyond what's already been stated but you're right that sometimes it works better to just have someone open the door and move things along. I'll keep that in mind for the future!

@Yours is mined - Even though I've not commented much directly, I enjoy the little tips you've been posting!

@Choon - Hang in there and I hope you get some breathing room soon!

These sorts of 'push' posts can be done very easily in PbP through NPC interaction. The knowledge checks could have been attached to the intro post with the note from Dr. Q, or perhaps a post Mindl asking some pointed questions about what we plan to do today and to make room for others.

Thanks for the feedback, it all helps...

Hey everyone! My name is Chris Marsh. I'm a Venture-Lieutenant in New Hampshire (USA), but I'm also an avid PbP GM. I've been playing Pathfinder since day 1, and Hmm asked me to drop by and share some of the best practices I've learned over the years.

Give me a day or so to read through the thread and I'll chime in shortly. Before then though, I'd like to give a serious thank you to Hmm for hosting this AND to YOU for doing this. In 25 years of active GMing, I can say confidently that this is the finest corps of GMs I've ever seen. Looking forward to it!

hey all, decided to jump in here after feeling the need to start GM'ing...

Name is Edwin Wessels, Venture Agent in the Netherlands, I like the PbP (due to my work schedule) but also love the PFS face to face.

*waves* Hello! Happy to see you two here; the more the merrier! Looking forward to hearing more tips and advice from experienced GMs (both F2F and PbP) :)

Hey all, been stymied by both my work schedule and the up and down of the Paizo forum the past few days. Urk. Just to let you know I AM alive.

So... Current topics. We need to talk about push and hooks some more, judging from the ongoing discussion about Monolith. I also want to chat about dungeons and my current experiences trying to GM 'From the Tome of Righteous Repose' so that you can see that even established GMs can hit issues. I want to talk about my experiences with a shared player handout. Finally, let's revisit selecting the scenario you want to run.

I've invited Mr. Marsh (above) to talk with us about the logistics and planning of running many games concurrently, and Psyblade because he's a fellow beginner who's just starting up his own game.

Okay, that was my to-do list for ME. I'll detail my thoughts on these topics later! How has everyone's week been?

Hmm

Guys, Hmm, whoever... how would you rule on this...

I was asked:

Also @GM, I'm assuming that, even though I share a subset of spells with the Psychic spell list, I can't "cast Psychic spells" without having that class. Is that what you meant?

I answered:

Not sure about your last question... module just says its for 'A character capable of casting psychic spells'... so not sure how to rule on that... in the case of a low lvl intro type quest scenario like this, I'd be inclined to side with the most liberal interpretation, but I'll ask Hmm for her opinion before ruling.

how would you rule on this? I don't know a lot about the psychic classes yet, so not sure if sharing spells with a psychic class actually gives you the ability to cast 'psychic spells'... *shrug*

My assumption (that only someone with levels in Psychic or equivalent would have the ability, so a bog-standard Cleric like myself does not) is how I would rule, absent any Wisdom From Above.

So, here's a very disorganized....

List of Stuff I've learned from my first 100 PbP Games*
*About half of which I was a player, not the GM

I'd like to come at this from the point of view of a GM who has successfully balanced a LOT of concurrent games. Ignoring Flaxseed and Castamir's station, I currently have 13 games going. Typically I'm the GM for half my games. So without further ado....

1. YOUR fun is key. If it's not fun for you, it's not fun for players. Don't over do it. Don't feel like you "owe" it to players, and don't feel like it's your duty. You do this for fun too. Burn out is a very real thing, and I've seen it turn a hobby into a chore. I've felt it creeping up before, but each time I've pulled back. Watch for signs of EOGaMBo Early Onset Game Master Burnout:

• If you feel any loathing, or dread AT ALL when you update your campaign tab.
  
• If you are the GM and you find yourself skimming a player's post instead of reading it.
  
• You know that real life is going to get busy and put a premium on your time (and thereby knocking down PbP on the priority list)
  
• You fall behind on reporting, chronicles, etc.
  

If you feel ANY of this, take a breather! Let your current games wrap up, and step back. The game will still be here. Keep it fun. Quality over quantity always, and fun every time.

2. The secret to balancing multiple games:

• PLAY it before you RUN it. It's not always possible, but I try to play a scenario first. If you can't, it's no big deal. IT certainly helps though! You learn a lot about the flow, the chain of events, the plots, the tricky bits.
  
• I try to run standard and CORE concurrently. It's both selfish and fun for the players. If I have a standard and a core table, I can cut and past room descriptions from one to the other. I can quickly copy maps. I only have to look for pogs once. That's on top of the benefit of having already read it once.
  
• COPY AND PASTE. Technically we can't copy huge swaths of text from scenarios, but consider the following post:
  

A few hours after your harrowing encounter with the snake, you reach a place where a small stream crosses the trail. Baron Rudyahm's voice becomes serious as he explains, "this is the stream we were following when the tiger ambushed us 5 years ago." He points with a rock steady hand, "This is where we should break off from the trail to find the tiger’s territory."

What the scenario calls for:

Note how all I did was alter the pronouns, turn some exposition into speech, and add some flavor adjectives. Don't do it constantly, but it's a simple way to get a solid quality post when you need one and you don't have the fuel to write it from scratch.

3. The secret to keeping it all straight in your mind:

• Be consistent. Have a flow. I always try to post combat the same way. It makes the wall of text easier on everyone. Take a look at this post It's not combat, but it's a nice summary to help keep everything straight. I don't ALWAYS succeed, but I always TRY. This makes it easier to go back and update your stuff and describe the round.
  
• Prep. Prep. Prep. I budget about a 2:1 ratio of prep to play for face to face games, and about the same for PbP. I keep a secret stash of map templates, pogs, etc on hand so I can simply copy and past them. PLEASE don't delete anything here, but check this out for inspiration. Feel free to copy though :-)
  
• If you use Chrome or Firefox definitely get your hands on Oladon's plug in. It most definitely makes my life easier. Please also consider donating to her Patreon. She makes great stuff.
  
• If something prevents you from checking the thread for enough time that you don't remember precisely what the goal is, feel free to go back and reread the conclusion, reporting conditions, etc. It's an efficient way to jog your memory.
  

-----------------------------
So I apologize for the info dump, but I hope this advice helps. Anyone can ALWAYS feel free to ask me questions, etc. I'm always on the look out to improve my game!

thanks for sharing these insights DM S, all good advice!

Jumping in for a moment to endorse DM S's post, and because I was reminded by GM Hmm's experience to let people know about Lazarus, a plugin extension for both Firefox and Google Chrome.

When the Paizo postmonster eats your finely-crafted wall of text (burp) — and it will — Lazarus can help get it back.

[color=blue]SQUUUUEEEEEEE! :D[/color]

[color=red][u]SQUUUUUUEEEEEEEEE![/u][/color]

*squealing intensifies*

Detects the default alias? I can change alias pictures? WHERE HAS THIS BEEN ALL MY LIFE?

_____________
Please tell me you all can see the color changes and the underlining?

Um... no?

[color=blue]SQUUUUEEEEEEE! :D[/color]

[color=red][u]SQUUUUUUEEEEEEEEE![/u][/color]

*squealing intensifies*

Detects the default alias? I can change alias pictures? WHERE HAS THIS BEEN ALL MY LIFE?

_____________
Please tell me you all can see the color changes and the underlining?

Only other people with the extension see it. As it is not available for Ipad, I stick with Paizo options.

Hmm

The love for Lazarus is echoed. It's saved my finely crafted posts from being eaten literally dozens of times. Love, love, love.

And yes, I see the pretty colors too.

Seconding (thirding?) the recommendations for both Lazarus and Oladon's plugin; both have greatly enhanced my forum experience since discovering them!

(I can also see the pretty colors, for what it's worth.)

At least some can, worth it! In light of this, I think I will add the recommendation for Oladon's to my GM profile. I don't plan on heavily using it, but it wouldn't hurt to show it to others. If everyone had it, the colors alone could be very useful for certain posts.

^Not a bad idea. Sadly it's not available for mobile devices so even I can't see the colors if I'm posting via my Kindle (which I do if I'm working nights). Even with that limitation however, it's still a worthwhile plugin in my opinion.

In regards to the things Dungeon Master S mentioned...

Fun is definitely key, whether you're playing or GMing. That bit about feeling dread when you look at your Campaigns list? I've felt that before as a player, looking at all the games that I was in that needed some sort of response from me. A hobby isn't supposed to fill you with dread. My solution was to realize that my free time is more limited than it was a year ago and to let some games go. It's not something I enjoyed doing but I could tell a difference when I did.

A more specific tell (for me, at least) as to whether I'm enjoying a game or not...is it always or almost always the last game you get around to posting for, no matter what? If you have to pick which games to update sooner rather than later, is it one that tends to get left in the 'later' pile? If so, that might be a sign that it's a game you could stand to cut loose.

Another bit you had that I liked was the 'play it before you run it' suggestion. Sadly PbP moves slow enough that I don't think this will always be practical for me, but it's something that I'm going to do my best to stick with when I can. At least between my characters there's a handful of low-level scenarios that I can pull from that I've played, plus a couple of those other suggestions on scenarios that are pretty straightforward to run :)

^Not a bad idea. Sadly it's not available for mobile devices so even I can't see the colors if I'm posting via my Kindle (which I do if I'm working nights). Even with that limitation however, it's still a worthwhile plugin in my opinion.

In regards to the things Dungeon Master S mentioned...

Fun is definitely key, whether you're playing or GMing. That bit about feeling dread when you look at your Campaigns list? I've felt that before as a player, looking at all the games that I was in that needed some sort of response from me. A hobby isn't supposed to fill you with dread. My solution was to realize that my free time is more limited than it was a year ago and to let some games go. It's not something I enjoyed doing but I could tell a difference when I did.

A more specific tell (for me, at least) as to whether I'm enjoying a game or not...is it always or almost always the last game you get around to posting for, no matter what? If you have to pick which games to update sooner rather than later, is it one that tends to get left in the 'later' pile? If so, that might be a sign that it's a game you could stand to cut loose.

Another bit you had that I liked was the 'play it before you run it' suggestion. Sadly PbP moves slow enough that I don't think this will always be practical for me, but it's something that I'm going to do my best to stick with when I can. At least between my characters there's a handful of low-level scenarios that I can pull from that I've played, plus a couple of those other suggestions on scenarios that are pretty straightforward to run :)

For me the dread feeling is why I limit myself to play 1, maybe 2 PbP posts at a time, due to the fact that I don't want to sit behind the computer for 4hrs and sort all the chars out. I have the luxury I can do it if I want, doesn't mean I want to :)

I am not sure if online play would help you, but there is also a big community that does PFS using discords / skype in combination with roll20. Might be worth looking into.

I am still impressed that GM ofAnything worked out Nested spoilers.

It took me a little experimentation to work out how it’s done. But now that I have, I thought some other GMs might find this useful :)

Just change each “{ }” into “[ ]”

{spoiler=Perception DC 10} You don’t see it.

But if you make a Knowledge (nature) DC 10 check …

{spoiler}You do!{/spoiler}{/spoiler}

OR

If you fail Survival DC 20

{spoiler} You’re dead, but …

{spoiler=Grand Lodge Faction}{url=http://paizo.com/image/content/PathfinderChronicles/PZO9211-Ve ntureCaptainAmbrus.jpg}VC Valsin{/url} informs your next-of-kin.{/spoiler}{/spoiler}

Or Double nested

{spoiler=Perception DC 10} You don’t see it.

{ooc}But if you make a Knowledge (nature) DC 10 check …{/ooc}

{spoiler}You do!{/spoiler}

Also, if you fail a DC 20 Intimidate… {spoiler}It attacks you!{/spoiler} {/spoiler}

Or Triple nested

{spoiler=Perception DC 10} You don’t see it.

{ooc}But if you make a Knowledge (nature) DC 10 check …{/ooc}

{spoiler}You do!{/spoiler}

Also, if you fail a DC 20 Intimidate… {spoiler}It attacks you!{/spoiler}

Then, if you fail a DC 18 Fort… {spoiler}You die from poison ☠{/spoiler} {/spoiler}

BECOMES …

OR

If you fail Survival DC 20

Or Double nested

Or Triple nested

Eadie, that is hilarious!

Hmm

thanks Eadie... I knew you could nest, but I didn't know you could double nest or triple nest!

I've been fighting off a cold that has had me down since Friday. But I feel like I've neglected you all horribly this past week, so let's talk about pushes and hooks.

One of the toughest things as a GM is writing up posts, especially combat posts. There are knowledge checks to spoiler, initiative blocks to deal with, and all sorts of other things to put together including bad guy actions and player saves under spoilers.

I don't want the game to halt for any reason in combat, so I usually have to brew this all up in advance. If I haven't brewed it up all in advance, it can take a long time to compose. However, doing some of this legwork in advance can help your team move in to where the action is, and will help move the game along.

Similarly, it's a good idea to provide a little guidance to your players sometimes to move things along. You can provide pushes -- bringing action to them, asking a question of a player directly, for example.

You can also provide hooks. End your post with a bit of NPC dialogue for the team to respond to, or a mystery to deal with. The important thing is giving your players something to do that will keep them active and engaged.

My Own Recent Struggle

I decided to run "From the Tome of Righteous Repose" for my Tengu group. Why? Well, it was literally the only game that the entire group could play. "Murder of Crows" is the most complete group on the PFS Session Tracker. It's murder to find something they haven't played yet.

Tome is challenging in PbP because it is a monster-filled dungeon. There are so many rooms! So many directions to go! Traps and monsters can be anywhere! Suddenly, my very active and otherwise decisive group was experiencing the worst monster in PBP -- Doors! (Okay, maybe not literal doors, but a choice paralysis.) The group started dithering. They also lost interest because although I've chosen speaking monsters with RP potential, they were out of their element.

I told them either they had to give me a multi-room route, or I would randomly roll what direction they went in for the entire dungeon. So they gave me a mult-room route, and then we flew through five rooms at once, clearing a lot more of the dungeon in a single day then would have been otherwise possible. At the end of the route, I brought one of the monsters to them. She shot a fire blast over their heads, told them it was a warning shot, and demanded a parley.

Why? Because she had just seen that the PCs have a skill that she desperately needs. Suddenly, we have RP again, and the game is moving. Sometimes, the PCs need to feel that they are part of a story in which they are the key players, and that story is going somewhere.

Does this make sense?

Ya. I understand. I struggle with choice paralysis in my games. Unfortunately it's a current struggle so I have no advice on how to overcome it.

Run it past us. Maybe our group can brainstorm something to help your game move. It would be a great class exercise!

Hmm

I feel like everything you said makes sense. I've been in games where I felt like I was playing a weird checkers game. Didn't feel any connection to ANYTHING except a couple of the other players and it was push, push, push. I like to think that if the DM put a little more hook into the game, we would have all had a better time. On the other hand, having too much hook makes me a sad panda because all I want to do is engage in the story and the game bogs down.

With that in mind, how do you balance pushes and hooks? Is this balance different in PFS vs an AP vs a Module? I know there are different expectations for each and then that varies among players, but is there a general rule of thumb that you like to use to gauge whether or not your current balance is appropriate?

Honestly? One of my biggest things that I check is this... Are my characters engaging? Are they clocked out?

Sometimes also it can be really tough to figure out if a particular character is disengaged or just plain absent. You can try testing the waters by asking questions directly at them. One of my favorite things to do is to try and aim a bit of dialogue or action right at a certain character's quirks.

If a character has bright yellow feathers because he's a tengu dandy, have an NPC guard DEMAND one of those feathers for safe passage. If someone is a neatnik, have a muddy NPC start fingering their coat. I like to look for little things that I can do with the NPCs to bring out the character's personalities.

There is also the consideration that RP can raise the stakes by making the NPCs people that the PCs care about. Have a little RP, then tie it back into the PFS plot we have. There may be a railroad, but darn it, make it the best little choo-choo ever.

___

I think that in APs and Modules, our plot constraints are much looser. When I did Masks of the Living God in real life, there was no overarching plot. There are a few scripted moments and big battle finish, but everything else was left to the GM and the players to wing. It did not feel like a PFS story. It was a wild and crazy game where I gave the players the setting, and then let them go to town in it. Other modules are more scripted, but they mostly have a sandbox feel. You've got main events in these locations and this creepy town and your job is to throw a bit of plot in front of the PCs and hope they follow.

(There's a reason I love modules. Ah, freedom!)

On the other hand, scenarios give you a tight and usually satisfying little script where something is always happening. There is less heavy lifting to do as a GM in them, and you can usually keep the plot train moving. Your players will also be actively looking for plot elements as well, and might get cranky if they don't see them.

My GMing of Overflow Archives in PBP had numerous moments of the players going, "What are all these weird creatures? What are we supposed to do here?" It was loose and silly, and because they could not see make heads or tails out of what was happening here, they got a tiny bit lost in the middle. The good news is that I got them back again on the first combat, and then things started to get better as they started to gather their clues.

I think sometimes you need to feel for how things are going, tweak things, and if you're not sure, ask your players. Most of the time, it'll be fine, but every so often... You'll have to check in.

I realize that this is a lot of words without any single answer. Still, I hope it helps.

Hmm

Lots of words help :) I was looking for the type of response you provided. I just ask more questions if I get a short, less robust answer. This was very helpful, thank you!

There is definitely a balancing act between giving players all of their options and nothing to go on. For instance, I posted my Introduction to Karcau (edited) a couple days ago. It's on the too much information side. But, I wanted a box where players could throw sand at each other before we actually began.

For maximum enjoyment, I'd like to give two things to build on, maybe three. Only one, and the post feels limited. Four or more, and it can get overwhelming.

I may need to steal that opening, should I ever actually run Darkest Abduction.

This is a note to say that I haven't died. My sister's wedding is this weekend tough so I may be scarce until Monday. I am still here and learning. I'll give my feedback and thoughts on recent topics as soon as I can.

I'm still here too, but working four nights in a row (and a day shift prior to all that) has thrown me off my posting routines. Working on getting caught back up now!

I don't really have a lot to add to the current conversation since it really does seem like it's a balancing act that takes some time and experience to get the hang of, as well as needed to be tailored to whatever type of group you're running for. Some groups seem to need a little more guidance/information to go on and others are good at taking just one or two things and running with them.

Suddenly, we have RP again, and the game is moving … Does this make sense?

Oh yeah, I know what you mean!

In a nutshell, the PLAYERS decide where to go, but the GM has OVERALL responsibility for providing the fun.

If the players aren’t deciding, they ain’t having fun and it’s totes the GM’s job to “encourage” the players to decide, so the game becomes fun again.

The trick is to do this without them realizing they’ve been “encouraged!!” (Apparently being a GM isn’t easy ;)

⚃ ⚄ ⚅

I think the main element is how well do you know the players and how much do they trust you?

In your GM ground rules have you clearly laid out the “rules of engagement?” eg: “I like a fast-paced game, if I don’t hear from you guys 24 hours after I’ve invited you to post, I am moving us on …”

Do you enforce this consistently and fairly? Do you follow this rule yourself? If so, you have already built up some trust with the players, which will make it easier when you hit that door.

If you make a mistake, do you admit it? And then try to fix it for the injured party? If one of your players makes a genuine mistake – how do you deal with it? If you suspect someone is “trying it on” do you handle it fairly and with good humor?

All of these things help build trust. The players learn that in particular circumstances, the GM will (most likely) react in a certain way. So when you hit that door, they should have an idea what will happen to them if they dither at the door … <insert evil GM laugh>

♞ ♞ ♞

Now, how well do you know your players?

Are they here for the story? Do they want to go monster bashing? Does someone work nights or have a sick friend? Has someone just got married? Who’s brave (or reckless even!) Who’s quiet? Who’s a leader? (or thinks they are…)

Sure you’re not going to know for sure (especially in PbP!) But knowing what motivates people to play can help you design that hook or push to get them to open the door.

^ I love you, Eadie! I'm so glad that you've stuck around to offer your wisdom and perspectives!

___

That whole GM trust thing is key. I really work like crazy to build that whole GM trust thing. If you're sick or need a few days off, tell your players. Communicate with them the way that you would want them to communicate with you.

Hmm

* blush *

It seems like Monolith is close to wrapping up so I start mentally preparing myself.

You do! Besides, University is one of my all-time favorite episodes. Ham it up! Ham it up!

___

So, we're 2/3rds of the way through Phantom Phenomena. Do we want to do chronicle sheets and reporting early, so we have more time to do this, or wait until the end? I am going to try to get Jesse in here to talk about chronicle sheets, if I can entice our beloved Venture Captain to make an appearance!

Hmm

I am decidedly not hammy, but I will do my best. I have some ideas for a certain trio wink

And I am not fussy about chronicles. Now, later, whatever.

I'm good either way on the chronicles; whichever would work best for the most people is fine with me :)

I say we at least wait until our potential special guest says their piece about it.

Sorry I was missing yesterday. Like Hmm, I've been sick (since Thursday) but it's been 10x worse since yesterday. I have some sort of virus.

That head cold just lingers forever. I'm only now just starting to kick it.

Hmm

I am coming down with some sort of cold myself.

I think JAFO is done with Monolith and I am about ready to start University. Please check in in the thread. University

I dot/deleted the gameplay tab

Dotted and deleted!

Same