Old School Greyhawk - Saltmarsh Campaign PFRPG (570CY - Southern Keoland)

Game Master ALLENDM

AoO: 1d20 + 3 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (13) + 3 + 1 - 2 = 15
Damage if it hits: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8

ALLENDM quick question on that crossbow shot - since he is hitting me for 1d8 damage, I am assuming he is using an heavy crossbow. And 'Loading a heavy crossbow is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity', is it not? So he should not be able to load and shoot on the same round I believe?

Checked also the house rules, but could not find any different info about this one. Let me know.

Unless he had started loading on the previous round? In non-house-ruled PF1e, loading a heavy crossbow is a full round action. In PF2e it is a two Action activity, that can be taken as the last action of one turn/first action of the next if your DM allows it. As far I’m Understanding anyway...

@Jack: Does Naia have enough movement at 30’/turn to get within throwing range with harpoon which as per houserules is 20’?

Unless he had started loading on the previous round? In non-house-ruled PF1e, loading a heavy crossbow is a full round action. In PF2e it is a two Action activity, that can be taken as the last action of one turn/first action of the next if your DM allows it. As far I’m Understanding anyway...

I think we are firmly in PF1e rules (with the houserules from ALLENDM), that is why I am asking. Also I think he moved last round?

Yep, definitely PF1, just providing some ideas. I’m pretty confused (and Naia likely moreso) about the enemy movements, which is making it all feel pretty real. Just had a bout of laser-skirmish for my som’s 10th birthday - situational awareness was in much demand. In the fog of war (dark warehouse maze with blacklights I’m pretty sure I shot my team-mates at least twice each...;)

Hehe yeah. I have played lasertag only once or twice, but paintball more often and yeah... Friendly fire is a thing :D That is why Grond is gluing on them as much as he can - we have gave them all the time to get prepared, and now everything is that more complicated. At least while Grond stands, we know where they are!

[dice=AoO]d20+3+1-2

[dice=Damage if it hits]d8+5

ALLENDM quick question on that crossbow shot - since he is hitting me for 1d8 damage, I am assuming he is using an heavy crossbow. And 'Loading a heavy crossbow is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity', is it not? So he should not be able to load and shoot on the same round I believe?

Checked also the house rules, but could not find any different info about this one. Let me know.

The stats on Light Crossbow:

The 1d6 is for small size creatures using them. 1d8 for medium size creatures using them.

Stats for Heavy Crossbow:
Crossbow, heavy 50 gp 1d8(S) 1d10(M) 19-20/x2 120 ft. 8 lbs. P — PZO1110

Thank you for clarifying ALLENDM (apologies as I incorrectly read the stats on the crossbow). However, my Attack of Opportunity happens as he is loading the crossbow, right? Fingers crossed for taking him down then, or hurting him enough that he decides to run instead? :D

Thank you for clarifying ALLENDM (apologies as I incorrectly read the stats on the crossbow). However, my Attack of Opportunity happens as he is loading the crossbow, right? Fingers crossed for taking him down then, or hurting him enough that he decides to run instead? :D

First - no problem at all. I don't mind discussing anything at all. Second - I agree with your assessment. Since Smuggler 6 is using his move action to load and his standard action to fire I would assume if you hit it would be during his move action or right before his standard action. So if you hit him the bolt will not go off/misfire and I would RETCON this. I am not at my personal laptop to check if you hit but I suspect you did. Which is awesome in your case! :)

Narciso carefully follows the group down the stairs. No enemy is in site so he casually hums a battle song. His bardic magic enough time remaining so he doesn't need to "refresh" it yet.

I think we're waiting on Naia's action. I think she's waiting on an answer from Jack. 3rd post on this "page".

And I'm enthused to see the back and forth about trying to "get it right."

[dice=AoO]d20+3+1-2

[dice=Damage if it hits]d8+5

ALLENDM quick question on that crossbow shot - since he is hitting me for 1d8 damage, I am assuming he is using an heavy crossbow. And 'Loading a heavy crossbow is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity', is it not? So he should not be able to load and shoot on the same round I believe?

Checked also the house rules, but could not find any different info about this one. Let me know.

Grond closes in on the man and his words seem to distract the man just long enough as he goes to load his crossbow. As the man goes to fire it Grond brings down his iron morningstar down and it strikes true. The man takes the full brunt of the wicked weapon right in the shoulder and the chest. The bolt flies off course and shatters against the ceiling just behind and above Grond. The half-orc realizes the blow from the bolt would have been wicked and probably would have killed him.

Those behind Grond in the stairwell can hear Grond's roar, the man's screams, and the shattering of the bolt and the crunching of something striking soft flesh and light armor!

The smuggler is clearly wounded now.

Grond's current state excluding the 5hp of damage.
Grond 12/5 hp (9/6/3) Wound -2 (NL 5/3)

@Jack: Does Naia have enough movement at 30’/turn to get within throwing range with harpoon which as per houserules is 20’?

I have moved Naia on the map. She is on the last landing with just a MOVE action.

She sees to the southwest a dark tunnel or maybe a cave it is hard to tell with your human eyes. It smells of fouled saltwater in that direction. The other direction where the screaming and Grond's roar came from is to the east and you can see as Grond dealt the blow to the smuggler and the bolt flies just south and into the ceiling between you and Grond.

You can make a throw of your harpoon at -4 as you are throwing into melee on 6.

Caverns

Group 2 is up now.

Sanbalet

Antas and Rabalar need to move for Group 2.

can I get past Grond with a hero point and charge into the next bunch? If not can I reach Grond at the corner using it as cover and give him some healing?

Ok, will use Hero Point for +8 to offset the -4...

Also, I have Precise Shot which includes: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Imp. Precise Shot) - does any of that a) discount the penalty, or b) provide a bonus to hit in this instance?

Query 4.26.7b - is the bard effect still current/in range? - if so, add please!

Ftiiw; Shknk!!!: 1d20 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 8 - 4 ⇒ (6) + 2 + 3 + 1 + 8 - 4 = 161d8 + 3 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 3 + 1 = 6 [+2 BAB, +3 Str +1 Weapon Training, +8 Hero Point, -4 into melee] [+3 Str, +1 Weapon Training]

If you have Precise Shot, you don't pay the -4 for ranged into melee. There should absolutely be some cover bonuses to AC, though.

The olf double moves down the stairs, ready to engage now that he has a much better line of sight.

Ehrmagherd. I forgot about the stupefyingly frustrating nature of not only being penalised for firing into combat, but also as your allies might provide your enemy with “cover”. Which *Precise* shot doesn’t completely eliminate...

I thought improved precise shot took out cover?

can I get past Grond with a hero point and charge into the next bunch? If not can I reach Grond at the corner using it as cover and give him some healing?

Due to the number of stairs you have to traverse and the fact that 6 is blocking your ability to pass I don't think it would be possible. If you take two move actions it will put you on the landing by Naia and on your next move will put you safely in the thick of it and you will have the option to move where you want as this round plays out. I did move you the last landing by Naia. You can roll perception.

Ok, will use Hero Point for +8 to offset the -4...

Also, I have Precise Shot which includes: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Imp. Precise Shot) - does any of that a) discount the penalty, or b) provide a bonus to hit in this instance?

Query 4.26.7b - is the bard effect still current/in range? - if so, add please!

[dice=Ftiiw; Shknk!!!]1d20 + 2 + 3 + 1 +8 - 4 ; 1d8 +3 + 1 [+2 BAB, +3 Str +1 Weapon Training, +8 Hero Point, -4 into melee] [+3 Str, +1 Weapon Training]

You do get the +1 Bard Bonus for both Atk and Dmg. You got a 17 and the additional partial cover is +2.

Naia hits the landing and looks at the situation to the east and sees Antas and Rabalar working their way down the stairs. She lifts her harpoon and casts it down the tunnel over the left shoulder of Grond as the man he hit moves south. The harpoon hits him right in the center of the chest. The entire head of the harpoon going through his back. The man looks shocked at first then seems to laugh at himself as he realizes he is going to die from a harpoon in a cave. Grond sees the man's eyes roll into the back of his head as his legs give out and he collapses to the ground.

I thought improved precise shot took out cover?

Far Shot comes at BAB +3 and Improved Precise Shot at BAB +11.

Antas let me know if that is acceptable.

Group 3 is up.
Smuggler 1 (10)
Smuggler 5 (9)
Soros (7)

Rabalar roll perception.

Soros

Soros moves down and turns east and down the stairs just behind Naia and Antas. "I can put up a shield of magical force if it will help with all these flying projectiles!"

that is fine thanks

perc: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (11) + 5 = 16

Smuggler 5

The man moves east down the tunnel and stops turns picks up a small wooden shield and what looks like a boarding pike and points it out towards Grond as he kneels down in front of two other smugglers using the walls of the cavern as cover.

Smuggler 7 initiative: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (10) + 1 = 11
Smuggler 8 initiative: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4

They have cover +4 AC / +2 Reflex Save.

that is fine thanks

[Dice=perc]1d20+5

Antas sees to the east there is light and the tunnel opens into another set of natural caverns. The ceiling height is about 8 to 10 feet (it varies). The walls are covered in patches of slimy salty moss and there are coarse burlap like mats places on the ground in long runs to apparently help them walk. The ground itself is covered in patchy moss and sand. To the east is a tunnel that is about 6 to 8 feet and that is where Grond is now standing and Naia's focus is at. To the west you quickly glance and see Rabalar standing by a smaller tunnel that is cloaked in darkness. The tunnel passage is maybe 2 to 3 feet. The ceiling is also a bit lower...maybe 7 to 8 feet in height. There is a draft coming from the room and there is a smell of foul saltwater in the air.

Smuggler 1

Waiting on Rabalar's perception roll.

Group 4 is up after that.
Ferona (4)
Smuggler 8 (4)
Grond (3)
Peran (2)

Peran continues to move down the stairs. He keeps from bottling up with the people before him and leaves room for others to get past him if needed.

Smuggler 8

The man moves quickly from his cover of the north cavern wall behind his kneeling mate with the small shield and boarding pike. He takes aim down the tunnel hallway towards Grond and Rabalar. Seeing that Rabalar has a bow and the half-orc not in good shape he quickly decides to fire at the person holding the longbow.

Lt Crossbow ATK: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (10) + 2 = 12
Lt Crossbow DMG: 1d8 ⇒ 6
Critical DMG if needed: 1d8 ⇒ 7

The bolt flies harmlessly by Rabalar who quickly dodges it by shifing to the right and dropping down. The bolt shatters into the rocky wall behind him. Naia and Antas see the bolt as it zooms by and explodes into pieces coming from the east!

The man then moves back to the cover of his wall then calls out. "Two in the tunnel! Sounds like there are more on the landing! Bys has found Davy Jones he be bleeding out on the floor!"

Smuggler 5

Seeing his mate's bolt miss and the half-orc standing there he yells out!
"Why don't yea come get a bit of this boarding pike up your wee hole! Be nice to stick this in your eye it would!"

Smuggler 7

laughs at the man's poke at the half-orc. "Come get a bit of me crossbow as well laddy. I see my friends have already taken a bite or two from yea!"

Ferona carefully hurries down the stair pausing to make sure the smuggler she dazed earlier was indeed incapacitated. "Moving from this spot will draw my ire, and your master wizard will not be able to save you!" Presuming he decides to cooperate she moves next to Soros. "We need to deal with that mad wizard and leave the others to handle the smugglers!"

Perception, the Smuggler 2 condition here. Does he look like he is threatening?: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (14) + 2 = 16
Intimidate: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7

"Told you" - Grond grunted with a smile as the one in front of him dies on the spot, trespassed by a very familiar harpoon.

Haha, ALLENDM you really threw me a bone there with him losing his shot ;)

"Give it your best shot" - Grond snarls, and moves ahead cautiously to make sure he is not surprised from the tunnel to his right.

Will react accordingly if something pops up from there. I am assuming the front guy has a reach weapon, but in any case, if Grond reaches his opponent:

Morningstar: 1d20 + 3 + 1 - 2 - 1 ⇒ (15) + 3 + 1 - 2 - 1 = 16
Damage if it hits: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8

If I reached him, and he is still standing, I want to try and burn a Hero Point for another standard action. We start with 2 right? I don't think I ever used one.

Morningstar: 1d20 + 3 + 1 - 2 - 1 ⇒ (14) + 3 + 1 - 2 - 1 = 15
Damage if it hits: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8

"Still feel like talking much?"

If I reached him, and took him down with my first attack, will still burn the Hero Point to close in on the Crossbow guy with an extra Move action.

Using Combat Expertise, so my stats should be, I think:
AC 20-2+1=19
HP: 5/12
DR3

Ferona carefully hurries down the stair pausing to make sure the smuggler she dazed earlier was indeed incapacitated. "Moving from this spot will draw my ire, and your master wizard will not be able to save you!" Presuming he decides to cooperate she moves next to Soros. "We need to deal with that mad wizard and leave the others to handle the smugglers!"

Ferona carefully hurries down the stair pausing to make sure the smuggler she dazed earlier was indeed incapacitated. "Moving from this spot will draw my ire, and your master wizard will not be able to save you!" Presuming he decides to cooperate she moves next to Soros. "We need to deal with that mad wizard and leave the others to handle the smugglers!"

[dice=Perception, the Smuggler 2 condition here. Does he look like he is threatening?]1d20+2
[dice=Intimidate]1d20+3

She notices the man is no longer dazed but she can also see that he is wounded. He still seems to have a bit of fight in him. It could go either way if he turns on the group again and is clearly not intimidated by her.

Caverns

"Told you" - Grond grunted with a smile as the one in front of him dies on the spot, trespassed by a very familiar harpoon.

Haha, ALLENDM you really threw me a bone there with him losing his shot ;)

"Give it your best shot" - Grond snarls, and moves ahead cautiously to make sure he is not surprised from the tunnel to his right.

Will react accordingly if something pops up from there. I am assuming the front guy has a reach weapon, but in any case, if Grond reaches his opponent:

[dice=Morningstar]d20+3+1-2-1
[dice=Damage if it hits]d8+5

If I reached him, and he is still standing, I want to try and burn a Hero Point for another standard action. We start with 2 right? I don't think I ever used one.

[dice=Morningstar]d20+3+1-2-1
[dice=Damage if it hits]d8+5

"Still feel like talking much?"

If I reached him, and took him down with my first attack, will still burn the Hero Point to close in on the Crossbow guy with an extra Move action.

Using Combat Expertise, so my stats should be, I think:
AC 20-2+1=19
HP: 5/12
DR3

Just so we are clear this smuggler will get an attack of opportunity on you with the reach weapon before you close.

Once I get Grond's actions completed Group 1 is up again.

Smuggler 6 (20) ((DEAD))
Naia (17)
Narciso (16)
Smuggler 3 (16)

Smuggler 5 - AoO

Based on Grond's current movement and his understanding that Smuggler 5 will get a AoO.

BP Atk: 1d20 + 2 - 1 ⇒ (18) + 2 - 1 = 19
BP Dmg: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (7) + 1 = 8
Critical Dmg: 1d8 ⇒ 6

The half-orc calls the man out and moves towards him. The half-blood orc is clearly a more superior warrior compared to the smuggler but as the half-orc closes on him he drops his boarding pike just a bit and then jabs it forward glancing off the man's shield but striking home a blow to the man's neck!

Heavy Shield DR 3/-: -3HP of damage. 5hp of damage. Grond is at 0hp and is now Critical -3. Grond has a +1 CON bonus so he has 1HP left before he is disabled.

Grond takes the blow to the neck and then finishes his movement and swings his morningstar down on the man with an orcish fury! The blow is devastating. The man lifts his small shield up to deflect the blow but the raw power of Grond causes the man's arm to collapse and the half-orc manages to finish his blow through the man's shoulder.

Light Shield DR 2/- -2hp of damage for a total of 6hp of damage.

Burn 1 Hero Point - you do have 2 so you now have 1. Please note how many Hero Points you have on your header (everyone :) ).

As he strikes the man and he starts to collapse an animalistic fury fills Grond and a heroic display of martial power he quickly lifts his morningstar and brings it back down on the man's head as he tries to bring up his shield to stop it. The wooden shield shatters and splinters under the fury of Grond! The man's head explodes in a mass of gore, brains, and bone that splatters along the cavern walls! What is left o the man crumples and dies as Grond roars at the two men with the crossbows!

Light Shield DR 2/- -2 hp of damage for a total of 6hp of damage.

Just so we are clear this smuggler will get an attack of opportunity on you with the reach weapon before you close.

I did not get it absolutely clearly from the descriptions, but I assumed as much yes. Decided to risk it anyway, but it seems these guys are blessed by Lady Luck.

In any case Grond's action remains the same. Two questions on that - 1) I attacked twice. Only one hits? 2) The man is wielding a 2h pike with reach, and also a Light Shield?

ALLENDM wrote:

Just so we are clear this smuggler will get an attack of opportunity on you with the reach weapon before you close.

I did not get it absolutely clearly from the descriptions, but I assumed as much yes. Decided to risk it anyway, but it seems these guys are blessed by Lady Luck.

In any case Grond's action remains the same. Two questions on that - 1) I attacked twice. Only one hits? 2) The man is wielding a 2h pike with reach, and also a Light Shield?

I was writing and updating my post as you posted. Yes, he wielded the weapon with 1H and doesn't get the 1.5 STR bonus only his strength(this the +1 instead of +2). The boarding pike is the same length as a longspear and historically these weapons were used as much one-handed as two-handed so I have always played it that way. You use s spear or quarterstaff or something like that 1H you simply lose the 1.5 STR benefit. Just always made sense to me but polearms and long pikes and weapons that are 2H that totally make sense I don't allow. But spears, long spears, boarding gaff, boarding pikes, and quarterstaves always made sense to me. Essentially anything under 8feet you can still use one handed for stabbing.

Thanks for the update ALLENDM, and well, I guess I know what weapon Grond will want to wield if he survives. Reach AND shield are just too good to pass. Wish I knew that before.

Thanks for the update ALLENDM, and well, I guess I know what weapon Grond will want to wield if he survives. Reach AND shield are just too good to pass. Wish I knew that before.

I took a look at my house rules as this is something normal I and my RL group had done for years. So it didn't even cross my mind. I just noticed it is not in my HR's. So lets do this because that is so not fair to you guys.

You can use a piercing 2H weapon that is 8ft or under with a Buckler or Light Shield but you lose the DR of that shield when you do and can only use 1H Strength not the normal 2H (1.5) strength. I didn't realize it was not in there and that is my fault. So in this case you would get full damage on the smuggler (I realize he is dead but this will help going forward). Sorry about that as I didn't realize it was not in there. That rule to me has always been a frustrating one as historically spears and shields were common pairings.

With PF1E going into the halls of history I was hoping someone would do a good REVISE on PF1E but I just haven't seen one I can get on board with so I decided to start revising it myself. A few months ago I started jotting down important areas to revise. Non-Lethal Rules, completely redo the Combat Feats, and such. There are so many little areas if they revised them it would make the game actually better. I think if they did away with CMB/CMD and just start with normal Melee/Range BAB and add the REFLEX for Maneuvering attacks. Maneuvering Defense start with Touch AC and add REFLEX modifier. This would actually make it easier to use old AD&D 3.5 monsters and such. As far as combat feats completely rework the feat system starting with basic fighting styles (2W, 2H, 1H (free hand), Unarmed, Thrown, Missle). Then rebuild it all. This would go a long way in improving the Pure Martial classes as it would greatly reduce the feat tax (along with reworking skills). I will stop...